Part-time military service?

[aphistis]

I've read comments about the military in a number of different forums here at SDN, and while exceptions exist, I've noticed two common threads connecting the majority of the posts:

1) General consensus tends to agree that military scholarships aren't worth the money in the end.

2) The threads I've encountered deal exclusively with active duty military scholarships--HPSP and the like.

What's interesting, I think, is that nobody has discussed the intermediate option--part-time military service. I've been in the National Guard for two years now, and I have every intention of putting in my 20. In undergrad, I served in a military band, but I'm transferring to the Medical Service Corps during dental school, and the Dental Corps after that.

The drawback compared to HPSP are that you don't get the guaranteed full ride. What you DO get are $50k in loan repayment, and $30k in lump sum cash, after getting your DDS/DMD. While in school, you get ~$575 a month in base pay and GI Bill, and $4000/year in tuition assistance. All told, it breaks down to about $1000 a month, which compares respectably to the HPSP stipend. All told, my education benefits will total out at just under $120,000.

The biggest advantage, however, isn't realized until after graduation. In active duty, you're stuck working for peanuts (comparatively) wherever Uncle Sam decides to send you. In the Guard (or Reserve), *you* decide where you're stationed (as long as there's a dental facility nearby). Most importantly of all, however, since you're only serving one weekend a month (plus a couple weeks in the summer), you don't lose the ability to immediately begin practicing privately, as you do in the active duty service.

Personally, you couldn't torture me into accepting an active duty scholarship; but part-time service can be a phenomenal way to serve the country and significantly reduce the cost of dental school, without significantly impacting your ability to jump into private practice right after graduation.

PM me with comments/questions if you want, but I'd like to publicize as much of this thread as possible. Release the hounds!

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[Omahahahaha]

Aphistis,


I am a senior in college applying for the 2004 entering dental class. I have recently researched this possible option and I have some questions. Please answer them if you can:

1. Are you in the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard?

2. Do you have to join a unit in the same state in which you are attending dental school in order to receive full benefits?

3. I know you have to go through basic, but if you are in dental school is it necessary to choose a different specialty (i.e. truck driver, engineer, cook) before you receive your DDS/DMD?

4. Don't you have to complete basic training AND your "specialty training" in order to receive money from the GI Bill every month? If so, the time between when I graduate college and enter dental school will be to short for me to fit in basic and specialty training, Right?

Just some burning questions I was wondering about. The times I have spoken with recruiters about the subject, they always seem to tell me "what I want to hear" instead of the reality of the situation. Could you please shed some light on these questions for me?!

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by SouthDakotaDDS
Aphistis,


I am a senior in college applying for the 2004 entering dental class. I have recently researched this possible option and I have some questions. Please answer them if you can:

1. Are you in the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard?

I'm in the Army Guard. I can't give details as effectively if you're discussing the Air Guard, but my understanding is that for a position like dentistry, the two are substantially equivalent.

2. Do you have to join a unit in the same state in which you are attending dental school in order to receive full benefits?

This is something I've actually never considered. As a practical matter, I think it'd generally be extremely inconvenient to do inter-state commuting. It might be possible, but generally there will be a medical unit within driving distance of your residence while you're at dental school, and that's probably the unit you'll be part of.

3. I know you have to go through basic, but if you are in dental school is it necessary to choose a different specialty (i.e. truck driver, engineer, cook) before you receive your DDS/DMD?

*BUZZ* Wrong! That's one of the best parts--you DON'T have to go through Basic Training! And no, you don't have to perform a secondary military job while you're in dental school.

In my case, it's working like this: I mailed out my officer commission packet. Since I'm in dental school, I'll be commissioned (made an officer) straight out of the gate. I'll be a lieutenant, and performing dental assisting work at the dental facility for the dentists themselves. As my ability progresses, I'll be allowed greater access as my skills allow. As soon as I graduate dental school, I'll be promoted to captain, and I'll be a full-service dentist.

4. Don't you have to complete basic training AND your "specialty training" in order to receive money from the GI Bill every month? If so, the time between when I graduate college and enter dental school will be to short for me to fit in basic and specialty training, Right?

Yes, normally you have to complete basic training and specialty training before you can get GI Bill benefits. However, that's the only benefit affected by your training status. You still receive drill pay and tuition assistance, even if you haven't completed your training. I was in the Guard nearly two years before I finally completed all my training. In that time I received over $10,000, and all I had to do was attend drill--I didn't even have to participate in anything I wasn't trained for. You're treated with kid gloves until you know how to handle the training.

Now, the best part of all that: if you join the Guard as a medical officer, your required training is only two weeks long! All you have to attend is a two-week training school called Officer Basic Course (OBC), where you're taught some of the basics about being an officer in the Army. It's nothing at all like ordinary Basic Training. It's hard work, but there are no overbearing drill sergeants to get in your face--you outrank them all!

Just some burning questions I was wondering about. The times I have spoken with recruiters about the subject, they always seem to tell me "what I want to hear" instead of the reality of the situation. Could you please shed some light on these questions for me?!

Hopefully I've managed to answer some of your questions. If you have any more, or if I haven't answered something to your satisfaction, please don't hesitate to reply again. Thanks!

--Bill J.
2nd-Lieutenant-Presumptive
Medical Service Corps
Indiana Army National Guard

 

[aphistis]

Also, for anyone who's interested, I just discovered this at INARNG headquarters yesterday, while I was polishing up my application packet:

One of the biggest worries about joining the Guard is the possibility of deployment. Not only will you have NO worries about deployment during school (the quicker they can get you through school, the sooner you can start being a dentist for them), if you're ever activated afterward, it can only be for 90 days. It's another benefit the military has to offer physicians and dentists in order to help draw the doctors to service. It's been unofficial policy for some time now, but in the near future, it will become law.

Just one more reason to consider part-time service!

 

[Omahahahaha]

Aphistis, thanks for all of your help.

I have a few more hypothetical questions for you.

So you ONLY had to take that Officer Basic Course (OBC)? No basic training, no specialty training?

If you are basically a dental assistant to real dentists (during guard weekend) you do still have to do you two weeks in the summer, right?

I have heard that the military is not always very flexible. What if I am at a school like UofP or even at a 4 year school that has summer terms with one week breaks, like Minnesota?

I have some friends in the guard, and they say that once you unit sets it's two weeks in the summer. It?s almost impossible to get out of it or switch. And these are people that work at Wal-Mart and gas stations for a living. There lives are more flexible to meet the guard dates. But what if you are in dental school? It is literally impossible to miss a week of class.

Can you please explain how this works!?!? Thanks!

 

[aphistis]

Glad to help!

Originally posted by SouthDakotaDDS
So you ONLY had to take that Officer Basic Course (OBC)? No basic training, no specialty training?

That's right. The two-week OBC is it. No basic training, no specialty training (AIT). The reason is that you don't have to be trained in how to do your job--that's what you're going to school for. All they have to teach you is how to be a military officer, and that's what the two-week course is for.

If you are basically a dental assistant to real dentists (during guard weekend) you do still have to do you two weeks in the summer, right?

That's right. The service commitment you make in the Guard is one weekend a month, and two additional weeks per year (generally, as you mentioned, in the summer). Activation can increase that commitment, but as I mentioned before, only for 90 days. And as a practical matter, your likelihood of deployment on a 90-day timetable is low. Inprocessing and outprocessing for deployments takes time, and that time is still included in that 90 days, which leaves you with even less time available for actual deployment. The most likely scenario would be activation for a domestic emergency, such as a natural disaster or etc.

I have heard that the military is not always very flexible. What if I am at a school like UofP or even at a 4 year school that has summer terms with one week breaks, like Minnesota?

Generally speaking, you're correct; the Army expects you to bend to it, rather than the other way around. In our case, however, Uncle Sam has to be more accommodating; he doesn't have any choice if he wants people with our skillset to join the team. OBC, though it's a relatively minimal requirement, is nonetheless a requirement. You'll have to complete it within two years of your commission date. Hypothetically, you could go over winter break if you couldn't in the summer. If summer is the only way to go, however, you're still protected. Under federal law, schools/employers can't discriminate or take punitive action against a soldier for performing required military service (like OBC). The school would be required to make reasonable accommodations to allow you to complete your military training. You'll still have to make up the work, but the school can't simply flunk you on exams because you were in the trenches serving your country instead of in the lecture hall taking the test.

I have some friends in the guard, and they say that once you unit sets it's two weeks in the summer. It?s almost impossible to get out of it or switch. And these are people that work at Wal-Mart and gas stations for a living. There lives are more flexible to meet the guard dates. But what if you are in dental school? It is literally impossible to miss a week of class.

It depends on what sort of job you do, and what unit you're a member of, in the Guard. For combat units, the command structure is much more authoritarian; it has to be, considering these people are going to be in the trenches for real if they're ever activated. For more white-collar units, the flexibility available can be significantly greater. For my AT (annual training--the two weeks) this past summer, several people made arrangements to miss a few days with the unit, and make up the training days another time. It's called "split training," and it's a routine procedure if you have another commitment causing significant conflict with your Guard training schedule. In school, for example, if I need to spend a weekend cramming for an exam, I'll reschedule my drill for another weekend--remember, they want to see us do as well as possible.

Can you please explain how this works!?!? Thanks!

Does any of this make sense? As always, feel free to respond again. Thanks!

 

[Omahahahaha]

Thanks for you detailed response! You have been a great help to me. This is something that I am seriously considering.....I just have to get accepted to dental school first!

Do all units have dental officers? And if not, is that a list of units or medical/dental facilities?

 

[aphistis]

No, not all units have dental officers. Generally, you'll find specific locations throughout the state you're stationed in that provide medical/dental services to Guard soldiers. Those medical/dental units will be who you train with. Regarding lists of locations, you can obtain that information from a recruiter in the area you wish to serve in.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

When you graduate is it a 4-year commitment like the HPSP? What is the pay after you graduate?

 

[aphistis]

The Guard program is more flexible than HPSP when it comes to service after graduation. Basically, the more benefits you want, the longer they'll want you to stay (for example, the loan repayments are given in three annual installments). I don't have the exact money-per-time numbers handy, for which I apologize. 4 years after graduation is a good rule of thumb, however.

As for pay after graduation, it all depends on your rank and how long you've been in. When I receive my DDS and my captaincy, I'll be earning (by current figures) about $540 per weekend drill. Pay is adjusted semiannually, so the numbers will be higher four years from now when I'm actually in that position.

If you want to see the actual pay tables, they're <a href="http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/2003paytable.pdf" target="_blank">RIGHT HERE</a>. They can be a little confusing, so I'll gladly field any questions.

As another aside, I also have full PX (military department store) and commissary (military grocery store) privileges. For reference, last time I did my grocery shopping at the commissary, I got two weeks' worth of groceries for $22. PX/commissary prices are generally 20-30% lower than civilian retail.

Anybody else?

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

So, what I'm getting is 2-week training (before dental school to get the most benefits?). One weekend per month, two weeks in the summer. While in school you get ~$575/month, $4000 per year for tuition. $30000 when you graduate and ~$550/month plus three annual payments towards any student loans. Is this right?

So, is there a minimum time requirement like 4-years? I understand you get more benefits the longer you go, but what is the minimum? How much are those three annual installments? Is the $550 a month the only pay you get after you graduate, or is there pay for the 2 weeks in the summer?

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks! This really does interest me.

 

[aphistis]

Yeah, that's right. The $30k after you graduate is spread into three installments just like your loan repayment ($50k), so your total benefit is $80,000. I think the minimum you can stay in for is three years after you graduate, but that's something you'll have to check with with the medical recruitment people; it could be variable from state to state.

You're correct, you do get additional pay for the two-week training period. Using the pay tables I linked to above, my calculation is that I'll get about $2700 for the two weeks. Extrapolate that out to a year's salary, and it's not so shabby. It's less than you'll probably make as an experienced dentist, but pretty respectable fresh out of school.

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

On those pay tables, what represents a dental student and what represents a graduate?

 

[NewNameForGoogleBot]

One more question: what do you get paid for the two weeks while you are in dental school? Are there externships available as well?

 

[aphistis]

Regarding the pay tables, the one you're mostly interested in will be page 8 (Drill Pay). The rows indicated different pay grades (ranks), and the columns indicate different amounts of experience in the military. As a dental student, you'll be commissioned as a Second Lieutenant (O-1, the lowest officer rank, but still higher than any enlisted soldier [i.e. sergeants]). You'll have no time in service, so you'll look at the block right next to O-1, and the block you're interested in is the one that says "4 drills." One drill weekend consists of four 4-hour drills (2 mornings, 2 afternoons). When you graduate, you'll be promoted to Captain (O-3), and you'll have been in for 4 years, so you'll look at "O-3" and "4 years" to see.

Regarding the possibility of externship, I hadn't considered it, but I bet it would be a possibility. I believe internships can be as short as 1 week at IUSD, so a 2-week annual training period might very well satisfy that requirement. Yes, you'll be paid extra as a dental student, just as you will be as a dentist. As far as the military is concerned, you'll be a 2nd Lt.; it doesn't care what you do in the civilian world when it's calculating your pay, only what your rank and time in service are (and that you're a medical soldier, since that gets you extra pay).

It's something to investigate in more depth to make sure, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work out very nicely. Good idea!

 

[DrReo]

Is there anyone else considering part-time military service? It seems like a good alternative to HPSP since you will have more control over where you will practice, etc.

 

[tinman831]

Maybe aphitis would be so kind as to update us on how the program is coming along so far?

 

[aphistis]

Maybe aphitis would be so kind as to update us on how the program is coming along so far?

Aphistis got out of the National Guard about 18 months ago because he didn't want to have conflicting military and residency commitments. Once I finish residency, I'd like to return to the National Guard or Reserves as a dentist, but for now I'm focused on completing residency this coming summer and transitioning into practice. The military will have to wait until those are taken care of.