PAs entering medical school?

[nev]

Is it true that PAs with a few years of clinical experience who enter medical school dont find med school too hard?

Thanks
Nev

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[MD2b20004]

Is it true that PAs with a few years of clinical experience who enter medical school dont find med school too hard?

Thanks
Nev

you will have a little advantage when it comes to your clinicals, but I doubt you will still remember the small details of your basic sciences such as anatomy etc... its like comparing the question to : is it true that med school is easier to science majors than non science majors, it can be argued either way.
Either way you look at it, your going to have to buckle up and get yourself into studying gear, as much as an advantage it can be for clinicals, you can have such disadvantages as not being in school for a while and getting used to studying and coping with huge volumes of non ending studying vs. working 8-5 and then not having to worry about the rest of the day.

 

[deleted6669]

I have 2 pa friends in med school right now. both work 20 hrs/week while in school. 1 is an ms4 and is second in his class with very high(>96%) usmle's step 1 and step 2. the other is an ms2 in the upper 25% of his class. both say prior training as a pa made a big difference.

 

[Megalofyia]

I have 2 pa friends in med school right now. both work 20 hrs/week while in school. 1 is an ms4 and is second in his class with very high(>96%) usmle's step 1 and step 2. the other is an ms2 in the upper 25% of his class. both say prior training as a pa made a big difference.

This has been along the lines of my experience with PAs in med school. They seem to do quite well.

 

[nev]

Is that the same with those getting Bacherlo's degrees in nursing? Coz, Ive heard that nursing students have to learn extensively about adult and mental health.....so wont that be also helpful in medical school?
Thanx
Nev

 

[nev]

Well that is one good thing in getting a degree in PA studies.....But it is hard to get in and the pre-requisites are quite different. But it is very helpful..

 

[Antigunner]

Is that the same with those getting Bacherlo's degrees in nursing? Coz, Ive heard that nursing students have to learn extensively about adult and mental health.....so wont that be also helpful in medical school?
Thanx
Nev

My wife has her BSN - she's not doing med school, but I can see how her background would help if she did. She would already have a lot of the foundational information, especially for classes like pharm and physio.

 

[rpkall]

I did 2 semesters of PA school, then went to medschool. It really hasn't helped me too much with the biochemistry, so far!

Things are more familiar, though. Some words, phrases, vocab, lab values, anatomy--I still recall; I think it's easier to make new associations with new information if you already have some big picture idea of physio, physical diagnosis, etc, etc.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Is that the same with those getting Bacherlo's degrees in nursing? Coz, Ive heard that nursing students have to learn extensively about adult and mental health.....so wont that be also helpful in medical school?
Thanx
Nev

Being knowledgeable about adult and mental health may be helpful with the intangibles, especially during third and fourth years. However, I don't think it would be that helpful during the basic science years.

 

[Rendar5]

I dunno, dealing w/ alzheimer's patients, lupus patients, patients w/ hypertension, CHF, etc, endocrinology complaints, etc.. And dealing w/ all sorts of complaints that relate to anatomy. You'll have a much broader base and a large set of clinical associations already set in your head. It would still be hard to learn med school, but u don't have to make as many new connections as ur standard med student.

So theoretically, I can understand why it might be possible for a former PA to have an easer time than a standard med student. Course, whether it's true or not isn't really up to anecdotal evidence or generalized theorizing.

 

[Megalofyia]

The other thing is that nurses and PAs also have to take anatomy too.

 

[njbmd]

Is it true that PAs with a few years of clinical experience who enter medical school dont find med school too hard?

Thanks
Nev

Hi there,
PAs and many people with clinical experience will have a higher level of comfort in clinical situations but everyone has to make the adjustment up for medical school. Anyone who tells you that medical school is easy is "blowing smoke". Medicine is very, very difficult to do well and you do not want to be a mediocre physician. Some people get personal pleasure out of pretending that they don't study or that everything is easy. Wrong!
njbmd

 

[nev]

But is it true that PAs learn some of the basic sciences like microbiology and biochem during the first two semesters of PA school?

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

But is it true that PAs learn some of the basic sciences like microbiology and biochem during the first two semesters of PA school?

They learn about those topics, but generally not at the same level or depth as medical students. There are also med students who had courses such as micro, biochem, and genetics during undergrad -- I don't think they have that much of an advantage over their colleagues who didn't take those courses.

 

[njbmd]

But is it true that PAs learn some of the basic sciences like microbiology and biochem during the first two semesters of PA school?

Hi there,
PAs like nursing, respiratory therapy and other allied health professions, will learn some of the basic medical sciences such as anatomy, biochemistry, microbiology etc. I promise you that their classes are nothing even close to the degree that you will study these courses in medical school. At my undergraduate school, the allied health professions did not even take the same undergraduate microbiology, biochemistry, anatomy or physiology that the biology or chemistry majors did. Their courses were tailored to their professional needs and nothing beyond.

njbmd

 

[deleted6669]

the intensity of pa educational courses varies from program to program. at several prominent pa programs pa's take the same courses as med students (they sit in the same class at the same time) but take fewer courses before entering clinicals because they do not take biochem and several other basic science courses. it is hard to make statements about the pa didactic yr without discussing an individual program.some programs are very weak while others have very strong faculty and excelent didactic preparation.
I'm hoping pacmatt and bandit( two pa's currently in medschool) will add to this discussion.they have both told me that they have a significant advantage, both due to their pa coursework and their years of clinical experience as pa's.

 

[oudoc08]

I did 2 semesters of PA school, then went to medschool. It really hasn't helped me too much with the biochemistry, so far!

Things are more familiar, though. Some words, phrases, vocab, lab values, anatomy--I still recall; I think it's easier to make new associations with new information if you already have some big picture idea of physio, physical diagnosis, etc, etc.

Exactly. I was a paramedic prior to med school, and nearly everyone I talked with said that I would have an advantage in the clinical years, but that MS1/MS2 wouldn't be any easier. Halfway through MS2, I severely disagree. I've had what I consider to be a much easier time than many of my classmates.

 

[nev]

maybe I should just take biochem and genetics as electives......That with my BSN/PA may equip me for med school (if i ever get in)

 

[megsMS]

My wife has her BSN - she's not doing med school, but I can see how her background would help if she did. She would already have a lot of the foundational information, especially for classes like pharm and physio.

I don't agree with this. The science classes that BSN students take are at an undergraduate level. This does not prepare them with a lot of "foundational information" for a graduate level course in an allopathic medical school (probably osteopathic schools as well...I only say this b/c I have no experience at all in this matter). Taking a class worth 2 or 3 credit hours is extremely different from taking one worth 8 credit hours that requires extensive understanding of molecular and biochemical processes. Nursing students (at least at my school) do not get this. They don't even take the same chemistry or biology that is required to get into medical school; it is at a much more simplified level.

 

[Megalofyia]

a graduate level course in an allopathic medical school (probably osteopathic schools as well...I only say this b/c I have no experience at all in this matter).

Rest assure the DOs are at the same level as the MDs

However I would like to point out that medical students would like to think they are going into some super deep level of this stuff -- and it is more indept than many undergrad classes -- it is not even close to touching on the PhD level.

I think the overall idea here is that having had an intro course or some background certainly helps. I know that I took biochem, immuno, enzyme chemistry etc a long time ago in undergrad but having that background certainly has helped me at least know the direction of where my classes are headed. There are people in my class with hardly any science background who are having to start at the undergrad level and build up. I can only imagine someone who did the undergrad level stuff I did and then had the clinical knowledge to give them a good idea of what this will all mean in application to a patient would only be that much more ahead.

 

[Rendar5]

medicine super deep? hahahahaha. The material is so much easier than all my higher level college course, lol. It's just volume. and volume and volume and volume and volume...

Rest assure the DOs are at the same level as the MDs

However I would like to point out that medical students would like to think they are going into some super deep level of this stuff -- and it is more indept than many undergrad classes -- it is not even close to touching on the PhD level.

I think the overall idea here is that having had an intro course or some background certainly helps. I know that I took biochem, immuno, enzyme chemistry etc a long time ago in undergrad but having that background certainly has helped me at least know the direction of where my classes are headed. There are people in my class with hardly any science background who are having to start at the undergrad level and build up. I can only imagine someone who did the undergrad level stuff I did and then had the clinical knowledge to give them a good idea of what this will all mean in application to a patient would only be that much more ahead.

 

[Elysium]

I can tell you first hand that PA schools require the exact same type of courses that med schools do, except more of them. Most PA schools require a year of anatomy and phys, biochem, micro, organic chem, genetics, general psychology, etc. A crap load more than the year of general bio and g chem than med schools do (I know because I have taken the pre-reqs for both). The reason for this is that you have to have more of a foundation because PA schools moves through didactics pretty quickly (a year), so there's not the time to delve into the detail that med schools do.

I don't really think it's a great idea to go to PA school to use it as a vehicle to get into med school. That's kinda lame. If you're in college just get a major in whatever, take the MCAT and apply to MD and DO schools, if you want to be a doctor. Don't become a PA so that one day you can be a doctor - that belittles what the PA profession is about for a lot of folks: a terminal profession, not a stepping stone. Majoring in nursing or PA in undergrad certainly isn't going to give you more of an advatage in med school. If you want an advantage, take some upper level bio/chem classes and learn how to memorize as much sh1t as you can.

 

[fantasty]

Hi there,
PAs like nursing, respiratory therapy and other allied health professions, will learn some of the basic medical sciences such as anatomy, biochemistry, microbiology etc. I promise you that their classes are nothing even close to the degree that you will study these courses in medical school.

Schools are different. At our medical school, the PA's take the exact same micro and pharm class we do. (But, their path class is easier, and they have their own anatomy and I don't think they have neuro, biochem, immuno, etc).

 

[Bandit]

hey guys, I am one of the PAs EMED spoke of. I am miles ahead of all others (with the obvious exception of some) and work 20--30 hours per week, take care of my home and family----and oh yes

bust my ass every day!!!!!! You absolutely MUST bring your game face every single day to school. I have been deeply exposed to nearly all this material, but this is a bit more in depth and the volume of info thrown at you at once is intimidating.

I would be happy to answer any q`s if I can. PAmatt is far ahead of me--if he shows here he will have a better perspective than I nearing graduation

 

[Anidelv]

Hey there,
I am an undergrad and getting ready to take the MCAT and eventually start med school. Along the way I come to appreciate the PAs program and the job they do. I am even thinking of following this pathway. What would a good and solid PA school in Florida? what are the requirements for PAs to get to med school? is it the same as being an undergrad or else?


Thanks!

 

[bcat85]

Resurrection!

 

[ZagDoc]

Going to PA school with the sole intention to go to med school would not be recommended in the slightest IMHO. You can boost your application strength much more easily with a post-grad program or work in a clinical field, without incurring the significant debt and time investment of a PA program.

Becoming a PA is darn tough, the program here at my school is at times more intensive that our MD program, because they attempt to squeeze everything into 2 years. Would it really help you in medical school? Sure. But not $50,000 of debt and busting your ass for 2-3 years help you. If you want to be an MD, get your application in order, and apply to medical school.

Now if becoming a PA is intriguing to you and may be something you which to pursue professionally, and after you get into the program you find MD is what you really want, well that's different, and has been done (as demonstrated in this thread). But that's coming from an entirely different motivational arena.

 

[Haemulon]

I have kinda lost track of what this thread is really about. If the OP is just wondering whether med students with previous experience as a PA are more likely to be successesfull in med school, I think that it is difficult to come up with any solid generalizations. Any med student with significant prior clinical experience or relevant academic or other training could potentially apply such knowledge towards his medical education. PA's, nurses, paramedics, grad students from various backgrounds, researchers, etc.... all have potentially unique and advantageous knowledge and experience. But there is no way that I can think of to extend this into generalization about overall PA aptitude for med school.

One cannot say, for instance, that nurses in general would perform better in medical school than the average medical student. The nursing population is dramatically different in many ways then the typical medical student population. Yet the nursing clinical experience may be helpfull to those nurses that do pursue an MD. Like wise for PA's, PhD's, or any other group. Med school is a unique beast. While PA training may seem like a mini or compressed med school in that the titles of courses and the focus on patient care can be similar, the whole focus of the profession is inherently different. Additionally, the populations of students and/or practioners in the PA field (or other fields mentioned above) are not necessarily identical with the typical medical student population, and these factors should be considered as well. Most of all though, there is a lot of individuality involved in one's aptitude for success in medical training.

That being said, I would think that one can assume that of these mentioned populations (PA, nursing, grad school, ect...), the subset of each population that also applies to and is accepted in medical school may more closely resemble the typical medical student population in many ways. In such a case, the med student that also has a background in another relevant field, such as PA, could hopefully use that to their advantage and improve their performence beyond what it may have been otherwise. Whether or not this enables them to perform better than the average for their class is really more individual, but no doubt it would help them perform better than they would have personally without the training. That's probably the bottom line.

We are all trying to do our best, and are bringing all of our past knowledge and experience to bear during our education. Some people are just amazing though, and are extremely successfull no matter what their background is. My hat is definitely off to these gifted individuals. I am glad they are out there.

 

[njbmd]

Moving to preallo as it's a premed issue.