Path residencies... somebody give me a pep talk/advice

[stormhawk27]

I am a 4th year vet student currently suffering through pathology residency rejection season. I am still waiting on one more school, but I am not hopeful as I was straight up told while I was on externship there that they prefer people who have "done something after vet school" ahead of people still in school. (ETA: I am anatomic path)

I guess part of what I am asking is... what are the chances of getting into a path residency on the second round? I have decent grades, a good amount of experience, pathology is all I ever wanted to do and I went into vet school knowing this. It is very disheartening that I have been rejected everywhere. Would love to compare with other people who did get in.

Also, what the heck do I do for a year if I don't get into my last remaining program? I HATE clinical practice (hate, hate hate) and I have limited clinical experience and am a terrible surgeon so it would be tough to get a job, but a lot of the residencies seem to like people who have been out for a year or two practicing... or would I be better off seeing if I can work at the Medical Examiner's office that I worked at between undergrad and vet school? At least that would be pathology experience, even if it's human, and would not be as stressful for me personally (and would probably pay better).

I know there's at least one poster here with path experience, help me out please

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[JaynaAli]

Are you wanting to do clinical or anatomic path? That is going to influence advice, since I've seen increasingly divergent selection criteria between the two sectors.

Anatomic is different from what I've learned from WhtsTheFrequency on here, so if you're wanting to do anatomic, ignore my wall of text and wait for her, haha...but here's my take on clinical pathology.

I am a clinical pathology resident. I applied straight out of vet school (somewhat against advice received from trusted advisors, but they wrote me excellent recommendations) and was rejected from all six programs I applied to. I had an excellent background/interest in path...5 years as a lab tech, poster at ACVP, all the path electives, president of path club, special rotations either performed or set up at three other labs/programs, etc. but below average grades. Still good, but below 3.5. The feedback I got from every place was that I was a competitive applicant but they'd gone with the person who had done an internship or practiced. So I cried for a weekend, got over it, signed up for the match, matched, and did a rotating internship. It wasn't fun, but I learned a ton. My second application cycle I applied to eight places. I was offered four interviews and withdrew my application from the other four places before interview offers since I had a quick acceptance to my #1 choice.

I will say, after doing my internship, I am a 100% firm believer that spending time in clinical practice makes me a better clinical pathologist. I have now been on the 'receiving' end of reports, know how a clinician will think about that result, and I have better background behind cases from which to draw in for from and build upon. Clin path is definitely shifting to unofficially require/strongly prefer either a couple years in private practice or an internship. I told one of our senior students that she should definitely apply this year, but not to be too discouraged if she didn't get one because of how things are shifting in clin path. I don't think spending the year in an ME's office would be beneficial. There is a reason the programs are wanting that practice experience. You would be well served to find an internship or job if you aren't offered a residency position.

What is it about private practice that you hate? Especially if you have limited experience with it? If you did go the ME route for a year, you'd better have a good reason to express to programs. There are a few clinical pathology internship programs...I know there is one at Kansas and I think maybe at Ross? You could look into those...I think the one at Kansas is joint clin and anatomic path and you are on call doing a lot of the after-hours testing, but it might be an alternative to practice. I really know nothing else about the program though. Those are through the match I think so you better get looking into them soon if that is the case, because I think match applications are due soon.


Edit: Was reading another post where someone linked back to that time in my life and came across this post I made, which illustrates my point that you're definitely not alone:

I talked to one of my mentors about residencies today. After asking if I had heard any good news from residency programs (which I haven't), she basically told me to hurry up and apply for the match at the last minute just in case I don't get chosen for a residency straight out of school. I guess most serious applicants they had this year had done internships (which are not required but valued for clin path). I'm disheartened and really freaking out that I might not get chosen. Now I have to find a clinician willing to write me a letter of recommendation in the week after Thanksgiving and research internships. Ugh. Thank goodness I don't have to deal with NAVLE anymore on top of all this stress.

 

[stormhawk27]

I am anatomic path - sorry I should have specified this. My GPA is a 3.3 which is ok but not stellar, but I was told the anatomic path residencies tend to look less at GPA and more at experience/references/commitment to the field. I have limited experience in clinical practice because what I saw in my undergrad volunteering, and required rotations in 3rd year and the summer of 4th year confirmed that it is not my thing so I stayed away from it for 4th year rotations. I don't enjoy or have the tact/sensitivity for dealing with general public clients, I find GP work to be incredibly boring, even basic surgery like spay/neuter stresses me out and most of the vets I've interacted with in GP hate their jobs and lives - I guess I just prefer dead things and slides haha.

I'm not sure I would even have anyone to ask about letters of rec for the match. I don't know that many clinicians very well, and the clinical practice intern lifestyle is really concerning to me. Do practices take new grads as relief work? I really don't want to take a full time job somewhere with full intentions to bounce after a year, and like I said I doubt I would be a competitive applicant for internships or jobs since my practice interest and experience is so limited.

 

[JaynaAli]

Well, if you're more focused on anatomic, I'll defer to @WhtsThFrequency. I didn't think anatomics valued clinical experience as much as clin path but maybe she'll have better input on ways to focus moving forward.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Hey there

First of all, I'm sorry to hear that this cycle hasn't been kind to you. Rejection is hard, especially when its in the field you truly want to do. A lot of people don't realize how competitive pathology is - it's almost on the level of zoo path if you go by # of applicants per spot, so don't beat yourself up too much.

A couple of things that I thought of:

1. Research experience. Do you have any? If so, how much? This is important when applying to combined (residency/PhD) programs, which many anatomic programs are now. Are you open to doing research? If you applied to a combined program and did not stress that, that's a big flag for them.
2. LoRs. How many are from pathologists? Who are the others from? Path is a small field overall and everyone (well, not everyone, but you get my drift) knows each other at least to some degree. Do you have enough clout in your letter-writers? If your LoRs are not strong, you're absolutely dead in the water.
3. How many programs did you visit? Again, most path programs are small and they are MUCH more apt to take someone they have met and worked well (or even someone they just met for a day or so to get an idea of what the person is like) with over someone they do not know.

As far as I have seen, clinical experience is not as common anatomic path. It may be looked at as a bonus of sorts, but not required. Take it with a grain of salt, though - I've been out of the path-heavy side for about 5 years now.

If you wanted to PM me your resume and personal statement, I'd be happy to take a look and give you any advice I can.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Also as a sidenote: just liking dead things and slides does not a good pathologist make. I know you were trying to make a joke, but the old picture of the grumpy old pathologist sitting behind the scope is a thing of the past in today's veterinary medicine.

You are by no means exempt from talking with the general public as a pathologist. At our institution, for example, the pathologists often call the clients directly with results when there is no intermediary clinician (e.g. weekend cases). Some of these clients are angry and upset, and you have to learn how to deal with that. Sometimes I am called in directly to do intake on animals with grieving clients in tow and I have to comfort them face to face and explain things just like a GP would. Not to mention the essential nature of proper and efficient communication with other clinicians, referring vets, etc. They'll argue with you just like a client would sometimes and you need to keep your cool. Overall, you still have to develop empathy and tact as pathologist.

 

[stormhawk27]

Hey there

First of all, I'm sorry to hear that this cycle hasn't been kind to you. Rejection is hard, especially when its in the field you truly want to do. A lot of people don't realize how competitive pathology is - it's almost on the level of zoo path if you go by # of applicants per spot, so don't beat yourself up too much.

A couple of things that I thought of:

1. Research experience. Do you have any? If so, how much? This is important when applying to combined (residency/PhD) programs, which many anatomic programs are now. Are you open to doing research? If you applied to a combined program and did not stress that, that's a big flag for them.
2. LoRs. How many are from pathologists? Who are the others from? Path is a small field overall and everyone (well, not everyone, but you get my drift) knows each other at least to some degree. Do you have enough clout in your letter-writers? If your LoRs are not strong, you're absolutely dead in the water.
3. How many programs did you visit? Again, most path programs are small and they are MUCH more apt to take someone they have met and worked well (or even someone they just met for a day or so to get an idea of what the person is like) with over someone they do not know.

As far as I have seen, clinical experience is not as common anatomic path. It may be looked at as a bonus of sorts, but not required. Take it with a grain of salt, though - I've been out of the path-heavy side for about 5 years now.

If you wanted to PM me your resume and personal statement, I'd be happy to take a look and give you any advice I can.

Thank you for the advice and offer!! I will send my CV and letter of intent in a few. To answer your questions,
1. I do not have any research experience, and I've avoided the mandatory combined programs for this reason. I'm more than open to doing some during residency, but due to some family circumstances that chewed up one of my summers plus the limited availability of research at my school I've never really gotten into it
2. All three of my letters are from boarded pathologists - two anatomic and one clinical. One is from my anatomic prof at school, the second is from an anatomic pathologist local to the school that I did a summer mentorship type thing with between 2nd and 3rd year and helped me with a case that I presented at a conference; the third is a clinical pathologist that I worked closely with during one of my rotations.
3. I visited three programs - my top two (MSU and UF) for two weeks, and Penn because I was close enough while on another rotation that I was able to stay overnight there and visit for a day. (UF is the one I'm still waiting on)