Pay Disparity

[msc545]

A company that I do some occasional consulting for is paying Psychiatrists $ 360 per hour, and Psychologists $ 120. I find this incredibly irritating. Anyone else?

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[erg923]

A company that I do some occasional consulting for is paying Psychiatrists $ 360 per hour, and Psychologists $ 120. I find this incredibly irritating. Anyone else?

Our CPT codes don’t reimburse as much as the E&M codes do

 

[WisNeuro]

Then don't consult with that company anymore. Plenty of work in the field that pays multiples of that figure hourly.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I was going to say both of what the posts above mentioned. It could be a factor related to the company not being reimbursed as much for work by psychologists as they are for work by psychiatrists.

Are both provider types doing the exact same thing? If that's the case, I'd be hesitant to work for the company. But if it's insurance-based reimbursement, it's unfortunately par for the course, although you can always push back.

 

[msc545]

Our CPT codes don’t reimburse as much as the E&M codes do

In California, we have a parity law that after 40 years has never been enforced.

 

[erg923]

In California, we have a parity law that after 40 years has never been enforced.

Parity has to with services covered and “lifetime dollar limits” on said coverage, not what individual CPT codes pay or who can bill them.

 

[msc545]

In the instance I cited that is simply untrue.

 

[PsyDr]

In the instance I cited that is simply untrue.

Then what CPT code are you using?

 

[medium rare]

Psychologists cannot bill Evaluation & Management (E&M) codes.

 

[Sanman]

In the instance I cited that is simply untrue.

I am totally confused by the point you are trying to make. More details might be helpful. How is it untrue?

 

[erg923]

In the instance I cited that is simply untrue.

1. Like others, l don't know what this means.

2. Look...if you do a 90971, you are paid X amount of dollars. If you do a 90792 (which a psychologist can't bill), you get paid X amount of dollars. The latter pays more. This is why psychiatrists can bill more (and thus rightfully be paid more by an employer or consultant) than a psychologist. This same principle partially explains why a surgeon makes more than psychiatrist. Not all CPT codes are payed equally.

3. What exactly are you doing here if not billing patient contact time and services?
-If you worked for Metlife or Lincoln Financial doing nothing but disability nexus claim reviews, I could understand the objection. But most clinical "consulting" (civil or forensic) beyond that is based on how much your license will/can allow you to say/testify/do, right?

4. Whatever the issue is here, I'm not sure the the concept of "Mental Health Parity" applies or has anything to do with it.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I am pretty sure that mental health parity relates to what insurance will cover for healthcare procedures such as psychotherapy, diagnostic interview, assessements, etc. Nothing to do with consulting work at all. It does seem a little low for consulting work. I charge more than that to my patient and I would think I would charge double my clinical hourly rate for any consulting work.

 

[tr]

I am pretty sure that mental health parity relates to what insurance will cover for healthcare procedures such as psychotherapy, diagnostic interview, assessements, etc. Nothing to do with consulting work at all. It does seem a little low for consulting work. I charge more than that to my patient and I would think I would charge double my clinical hourly rate for any consulting work.

Wait you charge more for consulting than for clinical? With what justification? I charge less than half my clinical rate for consulting, given that it is much easier and more flexible work, and also that the type of consulting I do does not generate direct monetary value for the person/entity paying me the way clinical work does. Just wondering about your approach.

2. Look...if you do a 90971, you are paid X amount of dollars. If you do a 90792 (which a psychologist can't bill), you get paid X amount of dollars. The latter pays more. This is why psychiatrists can bill more (and thus rightfully be paid more by an employer or consultant) than a psychologist. This same principle partially explains why a surgeon makes more than psychiatrist. Not all CPT codes are payed equally.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I routinely bill both E&M (e.g. 99214) and psychotherapy only codes (e.g. 90837) and the hourly rate seems to be quite similar for both. It does not appear that the insurance companies are shorting me for doing psychotherapy only visits. That said, I only take three insurances which have all been vetted by our administration so it may not be widespread. I do not know what they are reimbursing the psychologists.

4. Whatever the issue is here, I'm not sure the the concept of "Mental Health Parity" applies or has anything to do with it.

Agreed this is unrelated to parity

 

[smalltownpsych]

Wait you charge more for consulting than for clinical? With what justification? I charge less than half my clinical rate for consulting, given that it is much easier and more flexible work, and also that the type of consulting I do does not generate direct monetary value for the person/entity paying me the way clinical work does. Just wondering about your approach.


Not to add fuel to the fire, but I routinely bill both E&M (e.g. 99214) and psychotherapy only codes (e.g. 90837) and the hourly rate seems to be quite similar for both. It does not appear that the insurance companies are shorting me for doing psychotherapy only visits. That said, I only take three insurances which have all been vetted by our administration so it may not be widespread. I do not know what they are reimbursing the psychologists.


Agreed this is unrelated to parity

Maybe that’s why I don’t do any consulting work. I would just think that if someone was paying for my professional expertise in some arena, I would probably charge somwhere between forensic and clinic.

 

[PsyDr]

1. Like others, l don't know what this means.

He's pity trolling SDN. He's giving us insufficient information, and attempting to get support.

Wait you charge more for consulting than for clinical? With what justification?

The free market value is whatever you can get. Clinical rates are not determined by the free market, because insurance plays a mediator role in determining the market value.

 

[NewNeuroDemic]

I'll hijack this thread...

A job advertisement came across my state's psychological association listserv last week. "I am looking for a graduate student, ABD, or licensed individual to perform psychological evaluations on patients with chronic pain. Experience with the chronic pain population helpful but not required. Variable hours, typically five to ten per week. Set your own schedule. Starting pay rate $35 per hour, negotiable based on experience and licensure status. Additional hours possible for someone interested in doing neuropsychological testing..."

$35/hr! I have kept the post in my inbox because I keep thinking about messaging the poster privately to ask if they are serious about that rate.

 

[WisNeuro]

$35 is not bad for a psychometrist. I've seen psychometrist rates vary from $15-40. So, as a grad student, the pay could be nice. For a licensed individual, not so much unless you're looking at multiples of that starting rate.

 

[Sanman]

I'll hijack this thread...

A job advertisement came across my state's psychological association listserv last week. "I am looking for a graduate student, ABD, or licensed individual to perform psychological evaluations on patients with chronic pain. Experience with the chronic pain population helpful but not required. Variable hours, typically five to ten per week. Set your own schedule. Starting pay rate $35 per hour, negotiable based on experience and licensure status. Additional hours possible for someone interested in doing neuropsychological testing..."

$35/hr! I have kept the post in my inbox because I keep thinking about messaging the poster privately to ask if they are serious about that rate.

While on the lower end of a licensed clinician with alternatives, this is not a bad wage at all for anyone unlicensed.

 

[erg923]

I'll hijack this thread...

A job advertisement came across my state's psychological association listserv last week. "I am looking for a graduate student, ABD, or licensed individual to perform psychological evaluations on patients with chronic pain. Experience with the chronic pain population helpful but not required. Variable hours, typically five to ten per week. Set your own schedule. Starting pay rate $35 per hour, negotiable based on experience and licensure status. Additional hours possible for someone interested in doing neuropsychological testing..."

$35/hr! I have kept the post in my inbox because I keep thinking about messaging the poster privately to ask if they are serious about that rate.

Agree with others. It's a psychometrist position (seemingly) and is compensated relatively fairly given typical reimbursement rates for the Test Administration and Scoring codes (96138/96139). If licensed, it's indeed very low (they did say "starting" mind you), cause at that point you can perform and bill the Testing Evaluation Services codes (96130/96131 or 96132/96133) yourself.

 

[deleted1100659]

A company that I do some occasional consulting for is paying Psychiatrists $ 360 per hour, and Psychologists $ 120. I find this incredibly irritating. Anyone else?

Halo top cookies and cream ice cream is $5.67, however, their counterpart "cookie dough", is $5.37. I find this highly irritating