The Engineer

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does anyone know where I can get a list of PBL schools?

thanks
 

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The Engineer said:
does anyone know where I can get a list of PBL schools?

thanks
The funny thing about this question is that less than half the time the person wants a PBL school and the other majority of the time they are trying to avoid it. PBL was created due to complaints of med students having to take two years of science seemingly wholly unconnected to medicine. These days people on SDN seemingly try to avoid it like the plague. I guess the grass is always greener. :)
 

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Law2Doc said:
The funny thing about this question is that less than half the time the person wants a PBL school and the other majority of the time they are trying to avoid it. PBL was created due to complaints of med students having to take two years of science seemingly wholly unconnected to medicine. These days people on SDN seemingly try to avoid it like the plague. I guess the grass is always greener. :)
I'm not really sure what I think. I'm a bit apprehensive about going to a PBL school since I'm very used to the standard lecture format. I guess if I end up being accepted to one or have to choose, I'll try and decide what's best. Maybe something to ask at interviews - how do students like the PBL curriculum? Either way I'm sure you're right - I'll be thinking "Man, if I was just going to that PBL/non-PBL school, I'd have it so much better!" ;)
 

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bretticus said:
I'm not really sure what I think. I'm a bit apprehensive about going to a PBL school since I'm very used to the standard lecture format. I guess if I end up being accepted to one or have to choose, I'll try and decide what's best. Maybe something to ask at interviews - how do students like the PBL curriculum? Either way I'm sure you're right - I'll be thinking "Man, if I was just going to that PBL/non-PBL school, I'd have it so much better!" ;)
Has anyone had a problem based learning class in undergrad before?

I've had two, both were complete, complete disasters
 

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taylormade44 said:
Has anyone had a problem based learning class in undergrad before?

I've had two, both were complete, complete disasters

Could you elaborate?
 

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Nearly my entire curriculum now is PBL........with proper integration it is great....nobody really LIKES it but you find that you learn much much more stuff by the end with it...it isn't completley replacing lectures...it is usually more of a supplemental material type thing...forces you to look up questions on your own, pose questions, use real thinking.......and to answer the question..don't have a list.
 

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Oculus Sinistra said:
Could you elaborate?
I took biochemistry I and II, both were offered as problem based learning....what you would do is come in monday, wednesday, and friday and do these bizarre ass word problems that never taught you anything

the teacher would not lecture a single bit (because it was PBL) so everything learned had to be read at home in the textbook

exams were take home....they took about an entire week to do, and no matter what you answered and how thoroughly, you always got some points off...you could write enough it was so frustrating

the questions got frustrating as hell, and by the time the end of the semester came around i couldnt even force myself to do anymore problems

i never understood what the point of pbl was, the only time you learn is when you read the material at home, wouldnt it be a better reinforcement to have someone lecture you (about the stuff you've read so you've heard it twice) and then you can do additional problems outside of lecture too?

PBL seemed extremely convenient for one person though, the teacher...no lectures to prepare

anndd edit: i didnt learn a damn thing in either of those two classes, it was ashame because the material was interesting, but sometimes we'd have so many problems that we wouldnt have time to read
 

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taylormade44 said:
I took biochemistry I and II, both were offered as problem based learning....what you would do is come in monday, wednesday, and friday and do these bizarre ass word problems that never taught you anything

the teacher would not lecture a single bit (because it was PBL) so everything learned had to be read at home in the textbook

exams were take home....they took about an entire week to do, and no matter what you answered and how thoroughly, you always got some points off...you could write enough it was so frustrating

the questions got frustrating as hell, and by the time the end of the semester came around i couldnt even force myself to do anymore problems

i never understood what the point of pbl was, the only time you learn is when you read the material at home, wouldnt it be a better reinforcement to have someone lecture you (about the stuff you've read so you've heard it twice) and then you can do additional problems outside of lecture too?

PBL seemed extremely convenient for one person though, the teacher...no lectures to prepare

anndd edit: i didnt learn a damn thing in either of those two classes, it was ashame because the material was interesting, but sometimes we'd have so many problems that we wouldnt have time to read
Very interesting. Thank you.

I've always thought that PBL was the way to go.. learn the material and then apply it... but I thought it was lecture, say, MWF, then PBL on Tuesdays and Thursdays...

Northwestern seems to have a pretty interesting system...
 

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Oculus Sinistra said:
Very interesting. Thank you.

I've always thought that PBL was the way to go.. learn the material and then apply it... but I thought it was lecture, say, MWF, then PBL on Tuesdays and Thursdays...

Northwestern seems to have a pretty interesting system...
I think a mix of PBL and lectures is the way to go...if there was a 3+1 or 3+2 program like that I would probably go for it

we've all been lectured to death
but you definitely can get PBLed to death too, id rather be killed by lecture
 

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I guess it should be noted that our biochem text book was voet and voet, 3rd edition...for anyone who has had that, its the worst book ever

90 page chapter on protein folding...yuccckkk
it doesnt even have 20 pages worth of information, the authors just sucked
 
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The Engineer

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Hello Everyone. Thank you very much for all of your input and information. Like my handle says, I'm an engineer and did very well in undergrad because it was all PBL and I would like to continue on that "track." The memorization only based classes havn't gone so well.

thanks again.
 
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taylormade44 said:
I guess it should be noted that our biochem text book was voet and voet, 3rd edition...for anyone who has had that, its the worst book ever

90 page chapter on protein folding...yuccckkk
it doesnt even have 20 pages worth of information, the authors just sucked

haha...voet was one of my biochem professors. we had to use her book AND be taught by her. now that's bad
 

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taylormade44 said:
I guess it should be noted that our biochem text book was voet and voet, 3rd edition...for anyone who has had that, its the worst book ever

90 page chapter on protein folding...yuccckkk
it doesnt even have 20 pages worth of information, the authors just sucked
I disliked our book as well: Lehninger Principles of Biochemistry. Long chapters that were wordy complimented by confusing figures.
 

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i didnt mind lehringer...though it did seem like there was too much info at times

i think Loudon set the standard for textbooks

as far as pbl....i dont know much about that...but i hate lectures...so i would give it the benefit of the doubt
 

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I attended Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine. They have an entirely PBL curriculum (as does Weill Cornell). At the time, it frustrated me. PBL is not the most efficient way to transfer factual information, so I felt like I wasted a lot of time on irrelevant tangents. Sometimes missing learning objectives necessitated going back and figuring them out later. I would grumble about "exorbinant tuition for the use of the library" etc. I did find I was well prepared for clinical rotations though. I felt like I would go home each day and work on "learning objectives" at night to know more about my patients' conditions. Where PBL really paid off for me is out in practice. I am confident in my ability to problem solve and use my basic knowledge to come to a reasonable conclusion until a definitive diagnosis can be made. Particularly in veterinary medicine where you are a general practitioner and have to be able to treat a wide variety of conditions in addition to acting as an emergency service it is essential to be able to utilize your resources, ie. colleagues, reference texts and the internet to best serve your patients. PBL gave me the tools to do this. That being said, I was ready to strangle faculty during PBL sessions.

me - "What of this stuff do I need to know?"
faculty - "Whatever you feel is important."
me - "How much detail do I need to know."
faculty - "As much as you feel you need to understand the material."
 

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taylormade44 said:
I think a mix of PBL and lectures is the way to go...if there was a 3+1 or 3+2 program like that I would probably go for it
Northwestern has a combination of lectures and PBL...I think you have a 2-hour lecture every day and then some PBL sessions afterwards. :thumbup:
 

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taylormade44 said:
Has anyone had a problem based learning class in undergrad before?

I've had two, both were complete, complete disasters
Engineering, especially upper-division/graduate level is pretty much all PBL, best exemplified by the "Build a Computer from scratch" course that most of us EEs have/had to take at one point or another.
 

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jota_jota said:
Engineering, especially upper-division/graduate level is pretty much all PBL, best exemplified by the "Build a Computer from scratch" course that most of us EEs have/had to take at one point or another.
Most engr majors are like that aren't they? My best friend was a MechE and she had this intro EE class she had to take and build a radio. I remember they spend like 4 weeks trying to get the stupid thing to work.

I laughed while I wrote my paper on Chinese Folk Religion. :D
 

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The Engineer said:
does anyone know where I can get a list of PBL schools?

thanks
My school uses a combination of PBL, seminars, problem-solving sessions, case-based studies, journal clubs, and independent study. We don't have any lectures. If you don't want PBL, definitely don't apply here! I agree with the poster from Cornell who said that PBL is harder at the time because you have to figure out for yourself what you need to know. But I think it teaches you to be a better learner in the long run, because in the real world, people aren't going to hand you a packet that contains all the things you have to learn for the test in two weeks.

-CCLCMer
 

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My undergrad and grad were engineering, too, and PBL is definitely the way I learn. I was never motivated to do anything outside of class after sitting through so much lecture time.

Anyway, PBL depends a lot on how it is run. If the faculty are helping you go in the right direction and ensuring that the group isn't going too in-depth or not in-depth enough or covering complete extraneous information then it is a well-run program. If it is a free-for-all with very little faculty or student interaction and very little or no guidance then you should question the merits of that program.

Some schools tout that their PBL students have higher board averages than traditional didactic students. I haven't seen any studies to support this, though.

OUCOM offers both PBL and lecture-based. The PBL track is a competitive program based on past experience with PBL and a couple of essays.
 

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hoberto said:
My undergrad and grad were engineering, too, and PBL is definitely the way I learn. I was never motivated to do anything outside of class after sitting through so much lecture time.

Anyway, PBL depends a lot on how it is run. If the faculty are helping you go in the right direction and ensuring that the group isn't going too in-depth or not in-depth enough or covering complete extraneous information then it is a well-run program. If it is a free-for-all with very little faculty or student interaction and very little or no guidance then you should question the merits of that program. Some schools tout that their PBL students have higher board averages than traditional didactic students. I haven't seen any studies to support this, though.

OUCOM offers both PBL and lecture-based. The PBL track is a competitive program based on past experience with PBL and a couple of essays.
It sounds like it depends on not only the teacher but the course being taught as well. I think (from what info I have found so far) that PBL actually sounds like a good thing for me. Biochemistry does not sound like a good choice for PBL. One of the schools I am applying to is PBL.
 
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