PBL vs. Traditional Curriculum Step I Implications

[deleted413795]

I am wondering what the experience is of people in a PBL curriculum and how they feel it prepares them for Step I of the USMLE.

I am an IL resident and, while I have applied to many schools, I feel that my decision will ultimately be between SIU and University of Illinois since there is really no point in paying $20,000 more a year to go to any of the private schools or out of state, in my opinion (at least not the ones I applied to). I should also add that I have no interest in MD/PhD or extensive research.

However, I am very interested in Diagnostic Radiology and Pathology. I know Radiology is a pretty competitive specialty, and want to make sure I am setting myself up to do well on the USMLE.

While I really like the idea of PBL and have heard nothing but good things about it in terms of preparing students for 3rd and 4th year, Step II, and just general practice; I am skeptical about it preparing me for Step I as much as a traditional lecture curriculum.

Naturally, since my decision will be between a traditional school and a PBL school, I am curious about what people's experience with this is.

I should also add I was not sure if this belongs here in Pre-Med or in the Allopathic students forum.

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[music2doc]

I am wondering what the experience is of people in a PBL curriculum and how they feel it prepares them for Step I of the USMLE.

I am an IL resident and, while I have applied to many schools, I feel that my decision will ultimately be between SIU and University of Illinois since there is really no point in paying $20,000 more a year to go to any of the private schools or out of state, in my opinion (at least not the ones I applied to). I should also add that I have no interest in MD/PhD or extensive research.

However, I am very interested in Diagnostic Radiology and Pathology. I know Radiology is a pretty competitive specialty, and want to make sure I am setting myself up to do well on the USMLE.

While I really like the idea of PBL and have heard nothing but good things about it in terms of preparing students for 3rd and 4th year, Step II, and just general practice; I am skeptical about it preparing me for Step I as much as a traditional lecture curriculum.

Naturally, since my decision will be between a traditional school and a PBL school, I am curious about what people's experience with this is.

I should also add I was not sure if this belongs here in Pre-Med or in the Allopathic students forum.

Go where you get in.

You won't know until you get there whether PBL or lecture would be better for you. Many schools do a combination of both.

That said, go where you get in.

On a side note, you won't really know your areas of interest until M3/M4 anyway.

 

[deleted413795]

I apologize for not being more clear. I am holding multiple acceptances, and of the two schools I am deciding between one is 100% PBL and one is completely traditional lecture based.

I am not saying my specialty choice will not change, but I want to be able to choose whatever I want, and it seems like a solid Step I score would be pretty integral for that.

I hope that clarifies my question a bit.

 

[flodhi1]

I apologize for not being more clear. I am holding multiple acceptances, and of the two schools I am deciding between one is 100% PBL and one is completely traditional lecture based.

I am not saying my specialty choice will not change, but I want to be able to choose whatever I want, and it seems like a solid Step I score would be pretty integral for that.

I hope that clarifies my question a bit.

Traditional tend to score better because all the information is presented and it's a lot of exams and memorizing. The PBL is case based, a lot of critical thinking and more geared towards the problem solving primary care physicians. However, PBL is catching up to traditional on the board exams.

 

[DoctwoB]

I apologize for not being more clear. I am holding multiple acceptances, and of the two schools I am deciding between one is 100% PBL and one is completely traditional lecture based.

I am not saying my specialty choice will not change, but I want to be able to choose whatever I want, and it seems like a solid Step I score would be pretty integral for that.

I hope that clarifies my question a bit.

Go with the lecture school. PBL works for some, but you won't know it till its too late. It's also just a less efficient way to learn the minutia that you need for step 1. If lecture doesn't work for you, you can just skip class and learn on your own, as there's a ton of great resources out there. While if PBL doesn't do much for you you're SOL as thats time you're never going to get back.

 

[DoctwoB]

Traditional tend to score better because all the information is presented and it's a lot of exams and memorizing. The PBL is case based, a lot of critical thinking and more geared towards the problem solving primary care physicians. However, PBL is catching up to traditional on the board exams.

I agree that lecture is better for boards, but where are you getting these numbers from?

 

[flodhi1]

I agree that lecture is better for boards, but where are you getting these numbers from?

I did not present any numbers but Drexel School of Medicine has both the PBL and traditional program. Students get to pick their own style and their traditional has been scoring better than PBL.

 

[Donnie1310]

I apologize for not being more clear. I am holding multiple acceptances, and of the two schools I am deciding between one is 100% PBL and one is completely traditional lecture based.

I am not saying my specialty choice will not change, but I want to be able to choose whatever I want, and it seems like a solid Step I score would be pretty integral for that.

I hope that clarifies my question a bit.

How are you holding an acceptance at SIU? They haven't even admitted anybody yet...

edit: that's assuming your PBL acceptance meant SIU. For SIU vs UIC I'd go more with mission/location. Both are very different for those two, but the first two years teach you the same stuff no matter what school it is.

 

[sibitrum]

I did not present any numbers but Drexel School of Medicine has both the PBL and traditional program. Students get to pick their own style and their traditional has been scoring better than PBL.

There could be some serious selection bias there.

 

[dbeast]

100% PBL sounds like a terrible idea...

Then again, so does 100% lecture.

 

[autotroph]

100% PBL sounds like a terrible idea...

Then again, so does 100% lecture.

I was under the assumption that most schools were headed toward compromise. PBL is a good tool IMO, but I agree with you that 100% PBL sounds like a bad idea.

 

[Ormm]

I was under the impression (from what the dean of UIC said) that the curriculum at UIC is being restructured to be more PBL.

 

[kpcrew]

maybe you can look up their step scores and their match lists to get a sense of how their students do

 

[eli20]

At my school we do mostly lectures with a small amount of pbl first year (6 sessions all of first year) and more pbl second year (which makes sense because imo it's sort of dumb to do hypothetical cases when you can't understand anything about them).

However, none of it really matters - curriculum etc. is all bs marketing. You'll be spending a lot of time teaching yourself things wherever you go, which you probably already figured out in college. Picking based on nicest library will probably have a bigger effect on your life than pbl vs lecture.

 

[deleted413795]

How are you holding an acceptance at SIU? They haven't even admitted anybody yet...

edit: that's assuming your PBL acceptance meant SIU. For SIU vs UIC I'd go more with mission/location. Both are very different for those two, but the first two years teach you the same stuff no matter what school it is.

I just said I was holding multiple, not that the multiple were UIC and SIU. I am just saying that should I get in to those two, I will most likely be deciding between them since they are my state schools. Plus, I have yet to see anything at another school in their info or at imnterviews to make me want to go an extra $40,000+ in debt by picking private or out of state.

I have looked at the match lists. The numbers at SIU are pretty comparable to U of Illinois in terms of the percentage of students that match with certain specialties.

As for 100% lecture or PBL sounding like a bad idea. From what I have read in articles and heard from students, PBL seems to be generally disliked or seen as a waste of time if it is just thrown in a few times a week amongst lectures whereas if it is the entire curriculum people seem to like it. However, if you pick a PBL school you already most likely have a favorable opinion of that educational style. Unless that was the only school that accepted you.

 

[deleted413795]

At my school we do mostly lectures with a small amount of pbl first year (6 sessions all of first year) and more pbl second year (which makes sense because imo it's sort of dumb to do hypothetical cases when you can't understand anything about them).

However, none of it really matters - curriculum etc. is all bs marketing. You'll be spending a lot of time teaching yourself things wherever you go, which you probably already figured out in college. Picking based on nicest library will probably have a bigger effect on your life than pbl vs lecture.

I have heard that quite a lot, that the first two years are pretty much self taught.

I have to admit that is one of my main concerns about PBL is that there is a lot of mandatory class time, and I question how productive that will be. It just seems like you would spend all of the time teaching yourself, plus this required class time instead of just the teaching time.

On the other side however, it seems like PBL students are considerably more prepared for 3rd and 4th year rotations. I have heard that from folks in residency and practicing MDs that have come from both PBL and lecture backgrounds.

 

[thesauce]

I feel like this just came up recently.

OP: this is not likely to make much of a difference either way. Go where you're happiest.

BTW: according to the 2009 charting outcomes of the match, almost 50% of people applying with less than a 200 on step 1 matched into radiology so it really isn't everything. Source: http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

 

[dbeast]

At my school we do mostly lectures with a small amount of pbl first year (6 sessions all of first year) and more pbl second year (which makes sense because imo it's sort of dumb to do hypothetical cases when you can't understand anything about them).

However, none of it really matters - curriculum etc. is all bs marketing. You'll be spending a lot of time teaching yourself things wherever you go, which you probably already figured out in college. Picking based on nicest library will probably have a bigger effect on your life than pbl vs lecture.

Haha this is so true...