abcd

[mariposas905]

Not sure if this is sarcastic. I made it through five years ago, when things were a bit more certain. Still had to crush them boards and do well in school.

Oh no, I didn't mean it as sarcastic at all! I'm sorry it came off like that. I was just curious because I'm also concerned that DO would limit specialities and found your post to be helpful. I myself might be interested in derm, and am worried DO could close doors, so I wanted to understand how you made it to a competitive residency. Thanks for the reply!

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[IndieKush]

Oh no, I didn't mean it as sarcastic at all! I'm sorry it came off like that. I was just curious because I'm also concerned that DO would limit specialities and found your post to be helpful. I myself might be interested in derm, and am worried DO could close doors, so I wanted to understand how you made it to a competitive residency. Thanks for the reply!

If you want to Derm, don't be a DO. But keep in mind most MDs who want to Derm aren't able to either.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Cards is around the same competitiveness as GI, which are both a little more competitive than CC, and I know plenty of DOs in all 3 (and others) who all did ACGME IM and now ACGME Cards, GI, and CC. Someone from my (DO) school just matched ACGME derm, and I know another who did ACGME derm at Pitt a few years back as a DO. There are others, but I'm only referring to people I actually know. I also know of a Harvard grad who DIDN'T match derm with 250+ boards and research - though she is derm now after completing intern year, networking, and finding an open PGY2 spot. You have to be competitive in either case, but you also have to be a doctor to even be able to do any of those, which goes back to the majority's point of giving up an acceptance burns that bridge (and possibly to other DO programs), and if you don't meet the GPA requirement, you just wasted extra money and 2 years. If you were guaranteed acceptance for completing the program, sure do that route as the 1 extra year is a small price to pay, but that's not the case, and not everyone meets the requirements in the program, GPA and MCAT alike. The majority who who they take into the ACMS usually already have the MCAT requirement met (save for a few people), and numerous still dont meet the GPA requirement. Is that a risk you're willing to take? If so, then go for it - though my .02 still suggests PCOM.

 

[Anti-PD1]

OP,

I agree a lot with previous posters, particularly in how you arrived at this position.

Finishing MD school and having a close friend go through DO school in the same year as me, my advice, go with MD. It's not just letters, if it was, we would have consolidated that a long time ago.

The majority of the young DO world is with the MD world in every regard. We're all just trying to do what we love. But there is a faction in the DO world which truly believes there is something inherently different about osteopathic medicine that must be codified, protected, and practiced. For this reason, if you have any desire to do anything remotely competitive, or in a desirable location, you might find yourself taking both USMLE and COMLEX exams, and trying to convince the MD world you're every bit as good as the MD applicant on their desk.

I don't like limits. I would go MD.

Also, people, once you're a medical student your potential is unknown. I've seen star premeds scrape by in med school, and miraculously accepted medical students thrive.

 

[mwsapphire]

OP,

I agree a lot with previous posters, particularly in how you arrived at this position.

Finishing MD school and having a close friend go through DO school in the same year as me, my advice, go with MD. It's not just letters, if it was, we would have consolidated that a long time ago.

The majority of the young DO world is with the MD world in every regard. We're all just trying to do what we love. But there is a faction in the DO world which truly believes there is something inherently different about osteopathic medicine that must be codified, protected, and practiced. For this reason, if you have any desire to do anything remotely competitive, or in a desirable location, you might find yourself taking both USMLE and COMLEX exams, and trying to convince the MD world you're every bit as good as the MD applicant on their desk.

I don't like limits. I would go MD.

Also, people, once you're a medical student your potential is unknown. I've seen star premeds scrape by in med school, and miraculously accepted medical students thrive.

We're not saying MD doesn't offer advantages, we're saying there's a huge risk in doing the SMP, messing up, and locking yourself out of pretty much all med schools. Getting <3.6 would lock you out of MD, and turning down PCOM would lock you out of DO. OP doesn't even want a competitive specialty. It's just not worth the risk.

 

[Rei02sDinnerParty]

"I don't want to do something uber competitive, but I am slightly interested in general surgery and IM fellow ships like cards. I have zero desire to do FM, peds, and internist medicine. Not sure how I feel about academic medicine."

PCOM seems like it had a really awesome match for 2018 but it's pretty clear what residencies the majority of students matched. It seems to me like you're not set on a specialty besides not wanting to do primary care... which is where many students at PCOM ended up going. Of course it can be argued why that is but the broad consensus on sdn and elsewhere is that it is not only that students at DO schools are interested in only primary care but there are also barriers for DO students pursuing more competitive specialties. If you examine the breakdown by specialty and compare it with Temple's (I only found their 2017 match list but I'd be surprised if 2018 looked much different) I think it's quite clear what the advantages of the 5 year route would be:

Match List | Student Affairs at PCOM
Career Outcomes | Lewis Katz School of Medicine

I said this earlier in this thread but I don't think there will be any repercussions at osteopathic schools the OP has not applied to previously. This has been my understanding from the premed DO forums where students have reapplied after being previously accepted and turning down DO acceptances at other schools. As @lenspx mentioned, the MCAT retake may be another issue. Moreover, OP has said he does not believe he would mess up this program and I think he's probably right based on the statistics underlying the students historically accepted to the program, as well as his post bac performance and MCAT (which look a lot like my application btw, which may be why I feel invested in this thread haha).

In case this was not super clear - I think you should go for it. Temple looks like it designed this program such that the people it accepted would pass with flying colors and matriculate to the medical school. I'd get a 3.9 in that program and never look back.

 

[Dremt]

Let me give you my perspective as a DO ortho, soon to be starting a fellowship. I’m all DO, DOs rock. However, going DO will limit some opportunities and close some doors. Just realize that. Public doesn’t care if you’re a DO, you won’t have any shortage of patients, you’ll make the same amount of money as MDs in your specialty. But getting in to top programs would be difficult, if not damn near impossible, regardless of your performance at DO school. I can go into details but you already have several threads discussing this.

Therefore, if you’re ok with the fact that you’ll likely end up in primary care, or if you do decide to specialize, will have a harder time getting a spot (any spot, forget top programs), a DO school is just fine. You’ll become a doctor, you’ll take care of patients, you’ll move on with your life.

However, if you have even any incilination to specialize in anything surgery, or even medicine, I would take that Temple guaranteed SMP and study my ass off. Same advice if you want to be in academia. It’ll be tough, but it won’t close any doors at this stage of the game. But remember, the doors will be closed if you perform poorly in your preclinical classes and USMLEs.

On average, it is more difficult to match in prettt much any specialty as a DO, even those that are middling in competition (EM, Anethesia, Rads). Your average MD applicant will easily secure a spot, likely at an upper tier program. Your average DO will just struggle to match and would be happy to take any program. I know people that failed their classes and had terrible USMLE scores that matched EM/Anesthesia. They were all MDs, doubt that a DO could pull that off.

That is depressing to hear as an incoming OMS 1 interested in general surgery and EM

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If one can't outcompete MD applicants for an MD acceptance, what leads one to think they can outcompete their MD colleagues for a competitive surgical residency?

This.

Because MDs with a 220+ Step 1 (ie like 40th percentile) have 90% match rates to general surgery.... you don’t have to “outcompete” anyone but the bottom students as an MD but as a DO you must assuredly outcompete those MDs for a spot....

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

Interesting story, thanks. Do you know if it was a public MD program? Unfortunately Temple doesnt have cheap in state tuition. If they did that would majorly swing things in their favor for me.

My apologies for such a lengthy response. Yes, it is a public MD program. The program I am speaking of is EXTREMELY in-state biased, because you have to come from a specific area, plus be a resident of the state for 5+ years. Now, the GPA criteria for this program is much different than the one you speak of. If I'm not mistaken, the program requires students to maintain a 3.0 and they are able to matriculate. So, like others have said, use your best judgement on the decision you make.

Edit: Also, check what percentage of students successfully matriculate into Temple's program. Our state's program is extremely high (98+%), and that is the only reason I am considering going through it over a DO school.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Because MDs with a 220+ Step 1 (ie like 40th percentile) have 90% match rates to general surgery.... you don’t have to “outcompete” anyone but the bottom students as an MD but as a DO you must assuredly outcompete those MDs for a spot....

That’s the point, I think. Maybe I misunderstood him.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That is depressing to hear as an incoming OMS 1 interested in general surgery and EM

Work your tail off and have a back up. EM isn’t super difficult.

 

[mwsapphire]

"I donn't want to do something uber competitive, but I am slightly interested in general surgery and IM fellow ships like cards. I have zero desire to do FM, peds, and internist medicine. Not sure how I feel about academic medicine."

Nobody going into any medical school should have this attitude. Tons of students at both MD and DO programs do the stuff you have " zero interest" in. You need to content yourself with that.

Also, literally, IM fellowship specialties are totally open to DO's. It's been said on here a bazillion times.Cards may be tougher but other fellowship specialities are on the table.


AAAAaaahhh this thread is ridiculous.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

"I donn't want to do something uber competitive, but I am slightly interested in general surgery and IM fellow ships like cards. I have zero desire to do FM, peds, and internist medicine. Not sure how I feel about academic medicine."

Nobody going into any medical school should have this attitude. Tons of students at both MD and DO programs do the stuff you have " zero interest" in. You need to content yourself with that.

Also, literally, IM fellowship specialties are totally open to DO's. It's been said on here a bazillion times.Cards may be tougher but other fellowship specialities are on the table.


AAAAaaahhh this thread is ridiculous.

While I agree that one should be okay with doing primary care since there’s a good possibility that a student will end up there, there’s nothing wrong with having no interest in certain specialties. That in no way implies that you think they are beneath you.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Nobody going into any medical school should have this attitude. Tons of students at both MD and DO programs do the stuff you have " zero interest" in. You need to content yourself with that.

Lol no. This is someone’s career. They get to be as focused as they want, and they have the opportunity to be picky. I’m a DO student and I can tell you I have absolutely zero interest in FM. I have a whole host of stuff I will do (if I’m uncompetitive for my specialty of choice) before I do FM. I should add I respect everyone that goes into it, but it’s just not my thing.

Also, literally, IM fellowship specialties are totally open to DO's. It's been said on here a bazillion times.Cards may be tougher but other fellowship specialities are on the table.


AAAAaaahhh this thread is ridiculous.

I’m confused at what you are so riled up about. It’s a fact. The average DO will have less opportunities than a very average MD student.

 

[mwsapphire]

While I agree that one should be okay with doing primary care since there’s a good possibility that a student will end up there, there’s nothing wrong with having no interest in certain specialties. That in no way implies that you think they are beneath you.

Right, right. But the thing is you may end up there anyway so you need to be okay with it, whatever your reason is for disliking it. That's why perpective MD an DO students shouldn't think that way.

But literally, OP wants an IM specialty and thinks its unfeasible as a DO such that he should do this SMP. If he were gunning for nuerosurg, maybe. But for an IM specialty, absurd.

 

[mwsapphire]

Lol no. This is someone’s career. They get to be as focused as they want, and they have the opportunity to be picky. I’m a DO student and I can tell you I have absolutely zero interest in FM. I have a whole host of stuff I will do (if I’m uncompetitive for my specialty of choice) before I do FM. I should add I respect everyone that goes into it, but it’s just not my thing.



I’m confused at what you are so riled up about. It’s a fact. The average DO will have less opportunities than a very average MD student.

But this SMP is risky when a DO acceptance already in hand. Is MD worth the risk of never being in med school at all? I know that MD has more opportunities than DO, I'm not a baby. I just think turning down the DO accept to do the SMP is risky as hell and not worth it if OP is just aiming for an IM specialty. They can mess up the SMP and be left with no MD chance and blacklisted by DO. Maybeeee that's not the case but I think turning down the PCOM acceptance will come eventually,even if DO schools don't have the same national acceptance report that MD schools do.

I mean, Anatomy, you seem to agree that mildly/moderately competitive stuff is on the table for DO's. That's what I was saying, I'm aware it's easier for MD's, but it's a place were a DO has a very good shot.


There is nothing wrong with a DO student aiming for what they want, I'd rather not do Primary care, even if I went to a DO school. But whatever med school you go to , there is a huge chance you'll end up in primary care. MD or DO.


Any medical student has a huge chance of being a PCP, MD or DO. So you shouldn't hate it anyway because MD or DO, it should be were you end up, but that's more an opinion I guess.There's nothing innately wrong or haughty about not wanting to be a PCP, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there is still a chance anyone can have that as their only option, MD or DO, so anyone should be open to it.

I'm also naturally a risk averse-person. Idk. I feel like everyone should be when it comes to Med school and SMP's. Screwing up an SMP can be fatal.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But this SMP is risky when a DO acceptance already in hand. Is MD worth the risk of never being in med school at all? I know that MD has more opportunities than DO, I'm not a baby. I just think turning down the DO accept to do the SMP is risky as hell and not worth it.

It appears you missed the part where almost everyone that does it gets in. This isn’t a normal SMP. This is making a bet on yourself as a student, and this is a bet that I would take. Being on this side of the fence I can tell you that, to me, in this situation the MD is absolutely worth the risk.

Any medical student has a huge chance of being a PCP, MD or DO. So you shouldn't hate it anyway because MD or DO, it should be were you end up, but that's more an opinion I guess.There'shing innately wrong or haughty about not wanting to be a PCP, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there is still a chance anyone can have that as their only option, MD or DO, so anyone should be open to it.

This is a lie. MD, and hell even DO, students rarely get pushed into PC as their sole option. The world isn’t split into FM and the surgical subs. If you are an MD and your only choice is FM you royally screwed something up, and even for a DO student if you only have FM as your sole option then you weren’t a very good student.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Right, right. But the thing is you may end up there anyway so you need to be okay with it, whatever your reason is for disliking it. That's why perpective MD an DO students shouldn't think that way.

But literally, OP wants an IM specialty and thinks its unfeasible as a DO such that he should do this SMP. If he were gunning for nuerosurg, maybe. But for an IM specialty, absurd.

You greatly underestimate the disadvantage being a DO puts you in for many specialties. You don’t have to be gunning for nsg to feel the strain.

Edited to capitalize DO.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It appears you missed the part where almost everyone that does it gets in. This isn’t a normal SMP. This is making a bet on yourself as a student, and this is a bet that I would take. Being on this side of the fence I can tell you that, to me, in this situation the MD is absolutely worth the risk.



This is a lie. MD, and hell even DO, students rarely get pushed into PC as their sole option. The world isn’t split into FM and the surgical subs. If you are an MD and your only choice is FM you royally screwed something up, and even for a DO student if you only have FM as your sole option then you weren’t a very good student.

37.8% of US seniors marched into primary care this year. That’s a good chunk.

 

[CJhooper123]

Because MDs with a 220+ Step 1 (ie like 40th percentile) have 90% match rates to general surgery.... you don’t have to “outcompete” anyone but the bottom students as an MD but as a DO you must assuredly outcompete those MDs for a spot....

True that, true that.
Due to the fact that a good portion of MDs match into something PCP-related, wouldn't it be wise to be open to practicing in such a field even if you are attending an allopathic school? Stats suggest that you are likely to end up in PCP rather than anything else.

Lol no. This is someone’s career. They get to be as focused as they want, and they have the opportunity to be picky. I’m a DO student and I can tell you I have absolutely zero interest in FM. I have a whole host of stuff I will do (if I’m uncompetitive for my specialty of choice) before I do FM. I should add I respect everyone that goes into it, but it’s just not my thing.

I’m confused at what you are so riled up about. It’s a fact. The average DO will have less opportunities than a very average MD student.

Why did you ultimately go to a DO school instead of applying for an SMP?
I have enjoyed/respected your posts on here. I am genuinely curious (not trying to be troll).

 

[mwsapphire]

It appears you missed the part where almost everyone that does it gets in. This isn’t a normal SMP. This is making a bet on yourself as a student, and this is a bet that I would take. Being on this side of the fence I can tell you that, to me, in this situation the MD is absolutely worth the risk.



This is a lie. MD, and hell even DO, students rarely get pushed into PC as their sole option. The world isn’t split into FM and the surgical subs. If you are an MD and your only choice is FM you royally screwed something up, and even for a DO student if you only have FM as your sole option then you weren’t a very good student.

You greatly underestimate the disadvantage being a do puts you in for many specialties. You don’t have to be gunning for nsg to feel the strain.

- It appears I sort of did. My bad. I thought people were exagerating, trying to say that the program itself is easy.

- I know every DO feels the strain, it's just that I was weighing that against the strain of potentially messing up an SMP.

I see your points. I've internalized it. I just get a little nervous at the thought of an SMP anyway, being as risk averse as I am.


The second part of Anatomy's post is actually comforting, haha.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

37.8% of US seniors marched into primary care this year. That’s a good chunk.

True, but don’t assume they were forced there. The match statistics show that below average MDs have a number of non-PC options. The stats are also inflated by IM, because many of those IM matches will go on to specialize, yet get counted as PC.

Due to the fact that a good portion of MDs match into something PCP-related, wouldn't it be wise to be open to practicing in such a field even if you are attending an allopathic school? Stats suggest that you are likely to end up in PCP rather than anything else.

Being open to something is not the same as having to have interest in it. Remember the stats include all the people that go on to fellowship after IM and peds. Those people are not in PC but get counted as such.

Why did you ultimately go to a DO school instead of applying for an SMP?
I have enjoyed/respected your posts on here. I am genuinely curious (not trying to be troll).

.

I seriously considered it and had the profile I would have felt comfortable in my ability to get through an SMP and ultimately land in an MD school. Due to personal reasons (money, having a family, etc) I elected to attend a DO school that I felt (and still feel) gives me opportunities that are as similar to MD opportunities as a DO school can get. If those life situations were not there I likely would have pursued the SMP.

Don’t get me wrong. I am proud to be a DO. However I am big into maximizing opportunities and am a realist about the opportunity cost of attending a DO school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Temples ACMS program matriculates almost everyone into the MD school every year. Especially those who have already met the CMAT requirement (as I have). I was asking if your program was for an instate MD in terms of tuition. Unfortunately Temple is really expensive even for instate. If it were in line with "normal" instate tuition, I would absolutely go for this program.

There are reasons to not go to the program. Tuition is NOT one of them.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

True, but don’t assume they were forced there.

I don’t assume they were forced. But 37.8% is a lot, so there’s a decent chance any random med student will end up in primary care for one reason or another.

 

[raiderette]

I have heard about this Temple program for years, and I think OP is making it out to be more of a sure thing than it is. Looking through old SMP posts, there are plenty that don't get into med school right away. That is my biggest concern. I will always do MD over DO for ease of core rotations alone, but these are not equal comparisons

 

[CJhooper123]

Yea I agree. Like you though I have some personal reasons that are making me lean towards PCOM.. really tough decision but I appreciate your input as a current DO student who made a similar choice.

Ugh, tough choice. Good luck OP!
I would still favor PCOM. Forfeiting another year of attending salary hurts me (especially due to having a near minimum wage job). I also understand that (potentially) attending an MD school would increase your residency opportunities. That being said, only you know what will make you happy. It is very possible that your medical interests might change over the course of these next 4-5 years.

 

[BurntFlower]

I don’t assume they were forced. But 37.8% is a lot, so there’s a decent chance any random med student will end up in primary care for one reason or another.

Does this 37.8% include people in IM who went on to specialize in a fellowship?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Does this 37.8% include people in IM who went on to specialize in a fellowship?

Yes

 

[mwsapphire]

True, but don’t assume they were forced there. The match statistics show that below average MDs have a number of non-PC options. The stats are also inflated by IM, because many of those IM matches will go on to specialize, yet get counted as PC.



Being open to something is not the same as having to have interest in it. Remember the stats include all the people that go on to fellowship after IM and peds. Those people are not in PC but get counted as such.

.

I seriously considered it and had the profile I would have felt comfortable in my ability to get through an SMP and ultimately land in an MD school. Due to personal reasons (money, having a family, etc) I elected to attend a DO school that I felt (and still feel) gives me opportunities that are as similar to MD opportunities as a DO school can get. If those life situations were not there I likely would have pursued the SMP.

Don’t get me wrong. I am proud to be a DO. However I am big into maximizing opportunities and am a realist about the opportunity cost of attending a DO school.

Isn't that also the same for DO grads?

 

[MareNostrummm]

If you turn down a DO acceptance do you really get blacklisted from all DO? I know at least 1 person who received another DO interview after turning down DO to reapply MD.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

If you turn down a DO acceptance do you really get blacklisted from all DO? I know at least 1 person who received another DO interview after turning down DO to reapply MD.

You certainly would be at the ones you turned down. Op has 3 top DO accepts. That’s 3 good DO schools he’d be shut out of.

 

[tekkenman11]

If you turn down a DO acceptance do you really get blacklisted from all DO? I know at least 1 person who received another DO interview after turning down DO to reapply MD.

Did they get into a MD their second time?

 

[MareNostrummm]

Did they get into a MD their second time?

Yes they did. They applied 50+ MD schools, had only 1 MD interview very late this cycle, and 1 MD acceptance. 1 DO interview which led to a rejection.

 

[tekkenman11]

Yes they did. They applied 50+ MD schools, had only 1 MD interview very late this cycle, and 1 MD acceptance. Rejected post DO interview.

Many schools ask if you have applied to any medical school before (and I think AMCAS verified this but I can’t remember), so I wouldn’t be surprised if they only received 1 II due to their previous cycle. They might have also been ultimately rejected from the DO because of their past actions as well.

Although I guess it didn’t matter because they ended up with at least one Md acceptance. I think the blacklisting is over exaggerated but real. Particularly if you apply within the same system. Your friend was lucky that they could still apply MD with the possibility of no baggage.

 

[MareNostrummm]

Many schools ask if you have applied to any medical school before (and I think AMCAS verified this but I can’t remember), so I wouldn’t be surprised if they only received 1 II due to their previous cycle. They might have also been ultimately rejected from the DO because of their past actions as well.

Although I guess it didn’t matter because they ended up with at least one Md acceptance. I think the blacklisting is over exaggerated but real. Particularly if you apply within the same system. Your friend was lucky that they could still apply MD with the possibility of no baggage.

Very very lucky. Probably would have no chance of ever being a physician without that one MD interview/acceptance.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Very very lucky. Probably would have no chance of ever being a physician without that one MD interview/acceptance.

Yeah. That story is not exactly support for turning down an acceptance lol.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Yes they did. They applied 50+ MD schools, had only 1 MD interview very late this cycle, and 1 MD acceptance. 1 DO interview which led to a rejection.

That doesn't seem like good odds. 1 acceptance out of 51+ applications, late in the cycle? That sounds like that person got lucky. Compare that to current person who is turning down 3 DO acceptances, including at least one of the better DO schools out there. And you answered your own previous question on getting blacklisted. How many DO schools did they apply to to receive only 1 interview and subsequent rejection (when previously accepted to DO school)? 50+ applications is super expensive too, and again, to receive only 1 interview late in the cycle that LUCKILY led to an acceptance.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

knowing my career choices were limited as one of the last generations of DO's is frustrating.

You knew the rules of the game when you applied. This is why I try and make sure every pre-med knows what they are sacrificing, many don’t have a choice, but they still need to know.

 

[Fat_Albert]

For an avg md school (low tier, mid tier). What percentage of students actually match into a competitive specialty? It seems like 10-15% from observing match lists, is that right?

 

[Goro]

For an avg md school (low tier, mid tier). What percentage of students actually match into a competitive specialty? It seems like 10-15% from observing match lists, is that right?

You can find this data in MSAR. Lets pick Drexel, Albany, Einstein and Hofstra. About 1-3% of grads from each school goes into Derm, ENT or Plastics, and ~3-6% go into Ortho.

Overall, I'd say not matter what the school in these classes, it seems like LOW single digits of the class get into each of the uber-specialites, at least on the list that MSAR provides. Thus, Albert, based upon this cursory glance, I'd estimate < 10% of the grads

This also reiterates what I say a lot here: that merely having the MD degree doesn't mean you can waltz into an uber-specialty.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

Temples ACMS program matriculates almost everyone into the MD school every year. Especially those who have already met the MCAT requirement (as I have). I was asking if your program was for an instate MD in terms of tuition. Unfortunately Temple is really expensive even for instate. If it were in line with "normal" instate tuition, I would absolutely go for this program.

Sorry for misinterpreting what you said! CARS isn't my strong suit The program I am talking about is fairly cheap (cheaper than the in-state tuition at the MD school). Plus, a few students are eligible for a scholarship.

To be honest, I would rather pay a heavy sticker price up front and have the chance to match into a midway competitive specialty. Now, take everything for what it is worth, I am in a VERY low cost of living state. As in, I looked at the price of a 900 sqr. ft. apartment in Philadelphia, and it is triple the price of apartments in my state. Seriously, to the folks that live in the city, I don't know how you make it.

 

[swededoc]

hey @famguy225 would you be open to PMing me? I have a question about your app process to temple ACMS and would love to pick your brain. Thanks!

 

[EastSide]

I would recommend you to choose TemplePostBac --> MD.
Pros outweigh the cons.


I completed the Temple PostBac (ACHS* Not ACMS). But we took the same course as ACMS in Fall Semester -Immuno/Microbio, Neurophys/Cardiophys, Biochem; received an A, A, B+, respectively.
2nd semester is just Pharm & Anatomy for ACMS (anatomy, genetics, cancer bio for ACHS).
Dense coursework, but they intentionally make exams fairly easy in order to streamline students to the MD Program. This program is literally designed to put people into the MD Program. This is NOT a regular postbac. It's more like, 'do this for 1 year and we'll let you in'.

Within the ACMS cohort, people who stress are those who did NOT take the MCAT.
Since you got that out of the way, it should not be difficult to maintain a >3.6 GPA.
Plus most of these students have an easier time adjusting and excelling in med school due to the exposure to the pace/load/topics. (essentially watered down Year-1).

I'm also 25. But what is 1 year going to do...?
1 year of doctor salary? Who cares, you'll eventually make more than you can spend.

Save yourself the headache that the DO route provides - difficult matching process, neg stereotypes, limited rotations, taking both complex & USMLE, etc
If none of these bother you and can see yourself in a less competitive specialty (Primary, IM, EM, Psych, etc) go for PCOM.

PM if you have more Questions.
I'm a philly native, went to Temple Undergrad.

Goodluck

 

[nextgen007]

So I was recently accepted to both PCOM and Temple ACMS and am having trouble picking between the two.

ACMS is a one year post bac through LKSOM. It has a conditional acceptance that allows you to start at their med school the next fall without a gap year. I already meet the MCAT requirement (514) and would just need to maintain a 3.6 in their program to matriculate. Almost all students succeed in matriculating every year; they want you to succeed.

On the flip side, the program would cost me 30K (I have a rent free living option so COL would be negligible). I can cover most of this with unused undergrad funds and the rest (about 5K) with Stafford loans.

On the other hand is PCOM. Nice campus, decent match list, widely respected in Philly (where I want to do residency and practice.) I would start right away, and seeing as how I'm 25 already, this matters to me a bit.

I'm really not sure what to do. Frankly I'd prefer to be an MD but just cannot be sure it's worth another year and 30K to do it. I don't want to do something uber competitive, but I am slightly interested in general surgery and IM fellow ships like cards. I have zero desire to do FM, peds, and internist medicine. Not sure how I feel about academic medicine.

When comparing the match lists of PCOM and temple, its not really close. Temple sends way more IM residents to really good local programs, way more people to surgery anywhere, etc. I'm just not sure its worth the extra year, and of course there is some risk involved as a I must maintain that 3.6.

Any thoughts are really appreciated

So I was recently accepted to both PCOM and Temple ACMS and am having trouble picking between the two.

ACMS is a one year post bac through LKSOM. It has a conditional acceptance that allows you to start at their med school the next fall without a gap year. I already meet the MCAT requirement (514) and would just need to maintain a 3.6 in their program to matriculate. Almost all students succeed in matriculating every year; they want you to succeed.

On the flip side, the program would cost me 30K (I have a rent free living option so COL would be negligible). I can cover most of this with unused undergrad funds and the rest (about 5K) with Stafford loans.

On the other hand is PCOM. Nice campus, decent match list, widely respected in Philly (where I want to do residency and practice.) I would start right away, and seeing as how I'm 25 already, this matters to me a bit.

I'm really not sure what to do. Frankly I'd prefer to be an MD but just cannot be sure it's worth another year and 30K to do it. I don't want to do something uber competitive, but I am slightly interested in general surgery and IM fellow ships like cards. I have zero desire to do FM, peds, and internist medicine. Not sure how I feel about academic medicine.

When comparing the match lists of PCOM and temple, its not really close. Temple sends way more IM residents to really good local programs, way more people to surgery anywhere, etc. I'm just not sure its worth the extra year, and of course there is some risk involved as a I must maintain that 3.6.

Any thoughts are really appreciated

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get into ACMS LKSOM? I would love to speak to you more about this process, as I am looking to apply in October.

 

[MusicDOc124]

do you guys think temple acms is worth applying to with a 3.3 gpa and no mcat?

Temple ACMS? No. Temple has 2 programs.. BCMS or something and ACMS. ACMS tends to take applicants that essentially 'should' have been accepted to med school but slipped through the cracks (i.e. 3.5/3.6+ GPA, already have the required score on MCAT for ACMS to admit to Temple Med). Few get in without the typical stats, but they're usually right at the border (i.e. if they required a 33 on the old, the applicant might have had a 32.. don't know the new scoring system). I imagine that if they were to take someone who hasn't taken the MCAT yet, the GPA would need to be much higher, like 3.7, 3.8+.

BCMS is more forgiving with GPA and don't expect applicants to have an MCAT score, but it's more for career-changers as you cannot have taken more than 8 credits of med school pre-reqs to apply to it.

Could it be worth applying? Technically yes if you can spare $50 to apply with the possibility of not getting in, or if you do, then spending like $50/60k in tuition alone for the possibility of not getting the required GPA or MCAT for a direct admit (because it is difficult, not to suggest you can't do it though). I'm also comparing the fact that a 3.3 is okay for DO programs and some MD depending on what you get when you take the MCAT, meaning saving the 50-60k and studying hard and doing well on the MCAT could make it not worth it by giving you the stats you need to get in to a DO or MD program.

Just my .02.

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

Do you think they would consider lower GPA (3.3) for a very high MCAT (523+) ? I'm starting to look at SMPs in case I don't get into any schools this cycle.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do you think they would consider lower GPA (3.3) for a very high MCAT (523+) ? I'm starting to look at SMPs in case I don't get into any schools this cycle.

you shouldn't need an SMP. Maybe just a DIY post bac if you don't get any acceptances.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

you shouldn't need an SMP. Maybe just a DIY post bac if you don't get any acceptances.

Or possibly a better school list. I have similar stats (slightly lower MCAT and slightly higher GPA), and I've gotten 3 IIs out of 5 secondaries. I'm sure if I had applied more broadly and at appropriate schools, there's a great chance I would have more IIs.

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

Or possibly a better school list. I have similar stats (slightly lower MCAT and slightly higher GPA), and I've gotten 3 IIs out of 5 secondaries. I'm sure if I had applied more broadly and at appropriate schools, there's a great chance I would have more IIs.

Yeah not sure entirely sure what to improve on for next cycle (if I don't have any luck with this one). I applied to a broad range of schools (a few top tiers with mostly mid/low tiers) that should have been within reach (either private or OOS friendly). I have received an invite from a t10 and one of my state schools with a ton of rejections from schools where I was way above their 90th for MCAT and right around their 10th for GPA.

Besides my GPA I think my biggest weakness are my mediocre/poor extracurriculars (I wasn't involved in much outside of research during college and have to rush to put everything else together).

Anyways this thread isn't about me.. If I were OP I would go for the Temple program. It sounds like it's almost an assured acceptance. Sure, you lose out on one year of an attending salary which shouldn't be underestimated but I also wouldn't disregard the advantages afforded to you by being associated with Temple for an extra year. It could be a great opportunity to get on the radar for research/shadowing/networking if that's something that interests you.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah not sure entirely sure what to improve on for next cycle (if I don't have any luck with this one). I applied to a broad range of schools (a few top tiers with mostly mid/low tiers) that should have been within reach (either private or OOS friendly). I have received an invite from a t10 and one of my state schools with a ton of rejections from schools where I was way above their 90th for MCAT and right around their 10th for GPA.

Besides my GPA I think my biggest weakness are my mediocre/poor extracurriculars (I wasn't involved in much outside of research during college and have to rush to put everything else together).

Anyways this thread isn't about me.. If I were OP I would go for the Temple program. It sounds like it's almost an assured acceptance. Sure, you lose out on one year of an attending salary which shouldn't be underestimated but I also wouldn't disregard the advantages afforded to you by being associated with Temple for an extra year. It could be a great opportunity to get on the radar for research/shadowing/networking if that's something that interests you.

Weird. Maybe make a thread about yourself. That’s strange. Do you have a red flag maybe? A bad letter? Did you apply DO?