PCOM rotation sites

[indymed]

I read on this board that PCOM 3rd and 4rth years don't get to rotate at places like Temple, Jefferson, other big name places in Philly? Is this true? Where do they rotate at?

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[FrogE7]

Also, does any one know if they have any affiliated hospitals in NYC? I really want to go to PCOM but I dont want to be in philly for four years. That is why NYCOM seems so much more appealing.

 

[bobo]

The PCOm affiliate list can be found right here .

Moat of the hospital rotations are at smaller community hospitals and inner-city ghetto dumps. Not the best in the world, but enough to learn the basics.

There are a few rotations at the bigger name hospitals, but usually these are at satellites - ie Temple for psych, and Pennsylvania Hospital for med subi. For example, a 4th year emed rotation is at Northeastern Hospital which is a unit of Temple in a ghetto. PCOM sends students there every month, while Temple does not (kinda tells you something).

As far as Ny, there are a couple of spots. St. Barnabas in the Bronx and Episcopal in Far Rockaway (wherever the heck that is). Check the list.

Hope this helps.

 

[FrogE7]

Originally posted by bobo
The PCOm affiliate list can be found right here .

Moat of the hospital rotations are at smaller community hospitals and inner-city ghetto dumps. Not the best in the world, but enough to learn the basics.

There are a few rotations at the bigger name hospitals, but usually these are at satellites - ie Temple for psych, and Pennsylvania Hospital for med subi. For example, a 4th year emed rotation is at Northeastern Hospital which is a unit of Temple in a ghetto. PCOM sends students there every month, while Temple does not (kinda tells you something).

As far as Ny, there are a couple of spots. St. Barnabas in the Bronx and Episcopal in Far Rockaway (wherever the heck that is). Check the list.

Hope this helps.

Hopefully I don't sound ignorant. But does this mean that PCOM and other osteopathic schools get difficult hospitals to rotate in only? What makes a hospital better to rotate in--the facilities? And therefore, does this make the inner city hospitals difficult and more demanding for students?

I guess I am trying to understand the up sides and down sides of a hospital and what measures are used to judge the quality of it. This will obviously be a factor if/when faced with the burden of choosing osteopathic school.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by bobo
PCOM sends students there every month, while Temple does not (kinda tells you something).

Temple med recently lost their accredidation.

(kinda tells you something)

 

[ussdfiant]

Originally posted by JPHazelton
Temple med recently lost their accredidation.

(kinda tells you something)

That's news to me! When did we lose our accredidation JP?

 

[bobo]

JPH, the resident PCOM schill. Just wait till you get out on rotations. You'll see how things really are.


T Frog, who said

This will obviously be a factor if/when faced with the burden of choosing osteopathic school

DO school was not my first choice, but in less than a year I will be very happy and proud to say that I am a DO. It is getting me where I want to go in life. DO school is NOT a burden. If you really feel this way, don't bother applying. You will just be miserable.

Lots of things determine which rotations are good and which are bad. Many criteria vary from person to person, so there's no official criteria. Whatever floats your boat. The big things are facilities, formal didactics and teaching, ancillary staff, location, and of course scope of pathology. Having a good cafteria open round the clock is very important as well.

bobo

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by ussdfiant
That's news to me! When did we lose our accredidation JP?

News came from a (soon to be) 2nd year med student there. I hear it in April or May of this year.

If I'm wrong, then that person is wrong. No miscommunication between sources.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by bobo
JPH, the resident PCOM schill. Just wait till you get out on rotations. You'll see how things really are.

I am definately interested in hearing more of this, possibly via email correspondance. Can't get the information too early.

Drop me a PM if ya dont mind

Thanks!

 

[ussdfiant]

Originally posted by JPHazelton
News came from a (soon to be) 2nd year med student there. I hear it in April or May of this year.

If I'm wrong, then that person is wrong. No miscommunication between sources.

As a soon to be 2nd year myself, this is news to me. I would assume that I would have access to the same info that that person has and the powers that be have said nothing.

 

[jennij]

Very short article on Temple's probation.... Research it more if you are interested.

http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/5138367.htm

 

[ussdfiant]

Originally posted by jennij
Very short article on Temple's probation.... Research it more if you are interested.

http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/5138367.htm

Yeah, that's old news. As far as I (a current Temple medical student) know, no action beyond the probation has been discussed. I really would like to know where JP's source got his/her info.

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by ussdfiant
Yeah, that's old news. As far as I (a current Temple medical student) know, no action beyond the probation has been discussed. I really would like to know where JP's source got his/her info.

Stop Harassing Me!!!!!! I WILL NEVER TELL!!




In all seriousness...if I knew more, I would pass it on.

'specially to you, ussdfiant...you've been a good boy 'round these boards.

 

[ussdfiant]

Originally posted by JPHazelton
you've been a good boy 'round these boards.

Thanks JP! Can you believe that we're starting the second year?

 

[JM.]

JP - anything you can say to clarify it a little? I mean - all that they told you in April or May of 2003 was that Temple lost its accredation? That was a few months after they were put on probation. I mean - since I am starting there in the fall I would be interested in knowing that p ).

 

[fullofhope]

hey walkie

i think i can sorta answer... first, i dont think they can just lose there accredition after just being put on probation, i believe they are given at least 3 years (maybe 2) to clear it up before possibly losing it... but the past schools that were placed on them remained on probation far longer. i think if temple KNEW they were losing their probation this May they wouldnt be throwing all their money into a new med school.

Sounds like a bunch of $hit to me, source or no source

i think if you were to read why the school is on probation, most students would realize that it doesnt have to do with the education coming out of there... therefore, the only thing that "kinda says something" is that they need new lecture halls and more scholarships for student debt. temple remains a strong medical school to obtain excellent clinical training, even if the walls are cracking and the seats are kinda old.

coo'
Hopie

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by ussdfiant
Thanks JP! Can you believe that we're starting the second year?

NO! ::shudder::

I'm scared of boards.

Wish I were back in college!

LOL

Also, BTW: Temple is NOT a bad school. I am NOT trying to make Temple sound bad, I am just inputing information that I THOUGHT was 100% correct.

Had I known that it was controversial, I never would have posted it.

You know me...I hate controversy...

 

[bobo]

JPH,

I remember when you burst upon the SDN scene and became a prolofic poster. I also remember when you bombed the MCATS practice test right here - that was a good thread.


I don't post here much but I lurk alot. Your unbridled enthusiasm for PCOM cracks me up. FYI I am a fourth year and have no idea who you are.

The majority of PCOM's rotations are small community hospitals. At times this can be advantageous but more often than not it is a drag.

One of the cores of medical education is regularly scheduled and protected didactic lecture time, led by an upper level resident or an attending (preferably). You absolutely do not get this at small community programs with no residency programs. If you are lucky you may get some teaching time with the attending but it is usually short lived and random. The rotation I am on now is at an allopathic institute with a large residency program. We have noon lecture evrey day for an hour. There are also several lectures a week for just the medical students. A medicine elective I did at another large institute had morning report case presentations each day by a resident and facilitated by an attending. There was also an hour long noon lecture each day.

Now for didactics at a place like Mercy Suburban (popular pcom rotation site). Horrible. Morning report is a case (sometimes read directly out of a journal) given by a loser intern - a total joke No attending facilitation. They go around the room and pimp students on differential etc. Ridiculously enough, when I was there they would make us guess the case history (when did the chest pain start, what were you doing, are u short of breath? - I think we have figured that out by now - thanks for the ridiculous waste of time). A place like Springfield Hospital - zero formal didactics. There are places that you do get lectures, usually the bigger places. MCP for one, though they do a video from Hahnemann that is scresed up half the time. Or Mercy Suburban, if you can decipher the pakistani accents.

So you will see when you get out there at some different places. There are a few good rotations - reportedly subi at Penn, Lehigh Valley (the big campus), EMED at Einstein, some others. There are also A LOT of ****ty ones. For peds I basically shadowed attendings who rarely acknowledged my presence. Surgery there was ZERO teaching and all we did was cut out gallbladders and repair hernias.

The problem is that osteopathic schools don't have their own medical centers. Visit the AAMC website or any allopathic schools - you can find a LONG list of electives at many of them (for visiting fourth years). In some cases the pdf comes out at over 100 pages. PCOM has none. Absolutely nothing.

I can't believe I typed all this hot air.

ps for some intersting threads from way back about osteopathic education do a search for username adrianshoe or look at this .




bobo

 

[sleep deprived]

I noticed on the PCOM website that PCOM students can rotate out of Frankford hospital in philly. My school recently affilliated with Frankford Hospital as one of their clinical campuses. Do you have any insight on Frankford? Big or small, positive or negative experience there. I am interested in trying to do rotations there.

Oh, and I looked at your above link. That link has to be immediately discredited. It is filled with inaccurate info. Her experience at her osteopathic medical school is nothing like my experience at my osteopathic medical school. Which means that her expereince is not representative of Osteopathic medicine, but her school only. Keep that in mind. I was laughing as I read her post. It is nonsense if you apply it to all DO schools. I wonder how accurate it really is.

 

[bobo]

Discrediting a person's opinion or experience just because it doesn't equal your own or because you disagree is dumb. Funny how the DO zealots quiet down when a current student gives a truthful representation of a typical example of some of the inadequecies that are out there. I am proud to be a DO and it will get me where I want to go in life, but the whole DO educational system has shortfalls that need to be addressed on a widespread basis.

 

[EReze]

Originally posted by bobo
The PCOm affiliate list can be found right here .

Moat of the hospital rotations are at smaller community hospitals and inner-city ghetto dumps. Not the best in the world, but enough to learn the basics.

I'm sorry bobo, but your description is pretty offensive. If your supposed to be a "soon to be" physician, you better learn that people are people. "Inner City Ghetto Dumps" are all the people in that area have access to. Blame it on the government, but it is a smack in the face to the poor people who live and work in that area to blatantly insult them. Really.

 

[group_theory]

Almost all the good hospitals are located in inner city "ghetto" ish areas. It is there that doctors in training (med student, resident, fellowship) get to see all the interesting pathology due to lack of medical access. It is also where you will find people willing to be seen by students and new interns. Yale-New Haven, Hopkins, Mass Gen serve the local people (and once in a while they get interesting transfer since they are tertiary care centers). Think about it, how many interesting pathology will you see in a nice suburban community hospital?

In Philly, Temple Hosp (Main) serve N. Philly, HUP serves W. Philly, Jeff/Hahnemann gets center city/S. Philly, Einstein gets the people from Germantown and NE Philly.

Unfortunately PCOM does not have a lot of rotations with great inner-city tertiary care hospitals (well, Einstein is the exception). However, if you want to work in these hospitals, that is what electives are for.

Calling Kensington/Port Richmond (where NE Hospital is) ghetto is stretching it. It may not be like the suburbs or NE Philly (or Roxborough), but it is far from the ghetto. If you want ghetto, visit N. Philly, or W. Philly (far away from University City).

I agree in part and disagree in part to some of what bobo have said. Sometimes, due to his negative tone about PCOM's rotation sites and DO undergraduate medical education in general, it is hard to remember that he is proud to be a future DO and all he wants is to voice a complaint and try to improve the future education of future DO students. Of course, this is my impression of bobo and I cannot speak for him.

Respectfully

Group_theory
PCOM 2007

 

[Amy B]

So would you say that PCOM adequetely can prepare a student to be a rural area DO or a inner-city DO?

I thought they had rotations set up in both rural and inner city and a student could learn a lot from those rotations. Am I totally missing the mark?

Are their programs geared to those type of practices?

 

[group_theory]

PCOM has official rotation sites in both rural PA, suburban PA, and inner-city PA.

http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html

In fact, PCOM requires a rural rotation AND an urban rotation.

PCOM runs several health clinics located throughout Philadelphia. There's one in Roxborough, Cambria, Lancaster, and one on campus. You can also rotate through Albert Einstein Medical Center, Frankford Hospital, Pennsylvania Hospital, MCP, Temple Episcopal, etc. - which are major hospitals inside Philly that will give you exposures to the denizens of Philly.

For rural rotations - Geisinger Medical Center, Bedford Wellness Center, Warren Hospital (NJ), Lee Regional, Kent, etc

Then there are the suburban hospitals - some are community while others are more major medical centers. Christiana Care (delaware), Crozer-Keystone Health System, Mercy Suburban, etc

I'm not commenting on the quality of the programs, just the locality of these programs.


I hoped I have answered your question objectively.

Cheers

Group_theory
PCOM 2007

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by bobo
but the whole DO educational system has shortfalls that need to be addressed on a widespread basis.

100% true

 

[sleep deprived]

Discrediting a person's opinion or experience just because it doesn't equal your own or because you disagree is dumb. Bobo

It is equally dumb to allow one person to represent the majority. Such ways of thought are the basis of modern racism.

 

[bobo]

It is equally dumb to allow one person to represent the majority. Such ways of thought are the basis of modern racism.

Are you living in some parallel universe that the rest of us are unaware of? How does an anonymous discussion on an internet bulletin board about DO/PCOM education have anything to do with racism?

Get a grip. Please.

 

[sleep deprived]

I was creating an analogy to get the point across. I was not saying it had something specifically to do with racism. Not a difficult concept here.