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PCOM

Discussion in 'Physician Scientists' started by DOnut, Aug 8, 2002.

  1. DOnut

    DOnut Senior Member

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    Just curious to see if any PCOM DO/PhD students post on this webboard.

    If so, what type of research are you conducting?


    I know this is an undergrad thread so children lets be mature.
     
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  3. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    NEVER! HAH!

    There's been posts here before about DO/PhD but I don't think we've seen posts by actual DO/PhD students before. Sorry bout that. Any current DO/PhD ppl (regardless of PCOM) feel free to sound off!

    I think I need to go wee wee now.
     
  4. surge

    surge Medicinski Znanstvenik

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    Just out of curiosity....what does PCOM stand for?
    Also, which schools offer the DO/PhD degree?

    Serge
     
  5. CaNEM

    CaNEM Senior Member

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    Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

    Quite a few osteopathic schools, I believe.
     
  6. What does DO stand for???
     
  7. jot

    jot

    doctor of osteopathy

    they are doctors like MD's - slightly different philosophy, in addition to most of the med training they do something called "manipulations" which i'm not terribly familiar with. there are tons of successful DO's in our area, many working in practices with MD's.
     
  8. none

    none 1K Member

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    I'm sure you can get a PhD if you want at the majority of osteopathic schools. The issue is more what sort of funding they can offer, since there is no MST like program for the DO schools.
     
  9. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    This is incorrect! There is MSTP money for DO/PhD programs just like MD/PhD programs. MSTP is a federal program.
     
  10. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    In the history of the MSTP, no DO school has ever been given an NIGMS/NIH grant for training of MD/PhD students. Money may be "available", but no DO school has successful acquired the grant.

    Jason
     
  11. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    Wrong. UNTHSC-TCOM has NIH money for training DO/PhD through the MSTP. I know several DO/PhD students who have gone this route.

    Click here for info on UNTHSC-TCOM MSTP program

    Moreover, Michigan State's College of Osteopathic Medicine also has DO/PhD MSTP funded program

    For information on MSU-COM's MSTP program, click here.


    I think that you're doing a disservice to pre-meds by posting inaccurate information.
     
  12. Rumit

    Rumit Senior Member

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    Well, I don't know what they mean by MSTP. Because, while both of those schools offer a combined degree called an MSTP there is no mention of the NIH funding program, nor are they mentioned on the NIGMS site which lists all those schools that have received funding for the program over the past fiscal year. But, considering that places like MSU School of Medicine do not have an MSTP I find it unlikely that the Osteopathic school does.

    Adam
     
  13. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    What I said:

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    In the history of the MSTP, no DO school has ever been given an NIGMS/NIH grant for training of MD/PhD students. Money may be "available", but no DO school has successful acquired the grant.

    Jason

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Even though DO/PhD programs can call themselves MSTPs, they have no relationship to the federally funded NIGMS/NIH funded MSTP.

    See this thread related to non-NIGMS funded programs calling themselves MSTPs :

    http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/showthread.php?
    s=&threadid=39685

    The only MD/PhD programs funded by the NIGMS/NIH [or DO/PhD programs for that matter] are listed here:

    http://www.nigms.nih.gov/funding/mstp.html

    Don't confuse applicants further by falling prey to the idea that just because a program calls itself an MSTP, it means they have the federal funding to back that up.

    You said:

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I think that you're doing a disservice to pre-meds by posting inaccurate information.

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I expect to see a retraction of your post soon.

    Yours,

    Jason
     
  14. none

    none 1K Member

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    There is no need for a retraction. A DO school may call their program MSTP, but it is not MSTP in terms of NIH funding. The school iteself is the one doing the disservice and the deceit. And in case anyone didn't believe it was severely misleading, the above posters have definitely proved that it is. These schools really need to change the names of their programs. Anyone can hand out PhDs with their medical degrees, not everyone can or should be MSTP. Here is a current list of the true schools that have actually received NIH grants for the MSTP, please note UNTHSC and Michigan State are not on the list:
    http://www.nigms.nih.gov/funding/mstp.html
     
  15. I don't think it is deceitful to call a program MSTP (whether it is a MD/PhD or DO/PhD) if they do not receive federal funding. Deceit implies intent and I don't think this is what their purpose is. Also, why is it a disservice to call such a program a Medical Science Training Program? MSTP programs are just what the acronym stands for and some happen to be funded by the NIH, some by the sponsoring institution, and some aren't funded at all. Anyone who is seriously considering such a dual degree program should be smart enough to take a couple of minutes to figure out which is which, right? The fact that it may potentially be misleading really isn't the fault of the programs that do not get funding. Why should the schools change the name of a program that desribes its purpose? Why can't NIH-funded programs call themselves "NIH-Funded MSTP Program" or some other name to distinguish themselves? I'm guessing that they haven't because it really isn't that hard to figure out, nor is it a big deal to them.
     
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  17. Vader

    Vader Dark Lord of the Sith
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    Maybe I'm just dumb, but I didn't realize when I was applying that certain schools do not guarantee full funding. Some are straightforward in their application materials about funding sources, but others are less so. I wasted a good deal of money flying out to places where I was to learn that funding was only partial. The point is that intentionally or unintentionally, the aforementioned schools' use of the acronym "MSTP" misleads applicants. The fact that they are introducing ambiguity in the terminology indicates to me that they are trying to make their programs appear equivalent to NIH-funded programs. At the very least this is misleading, at worst deceptive. Other schools with MD/PhD programs use terminology such as "Physician Scientist Training Program," which to me is a clearer distinction. Perhaps you are right though that most applicants don't have any problem with this.
     
  18. none

    none 1K Member

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    Of course it is misleading!!! Just read some of the above posts! It is extremely confusing and I honestly believe these medical schools know EXACTLY what they are doing when they call themselves MSTP and are intentionally misleading applicants into believing funding is present that isn't. Even if they came up with their own money to match the large MSTP grants, MSTP designates more than just funding. MSTP means that the NIH has very thoroughly investigated an institution and declared them worthy of that funding. There is no reason the NIH should not have full control over the term. Their actions apply to a large number of institutions and their term is the most well known. It is these specific schools that have only a very tenuous claim to the term.

    Terminology is extremely important. A naturopathy school could go around calling themselves a medical school, it would be accurate, but horribly and dangerously misleading. This is a very similiar situation, but with somewhat less dire consequences.
     
  19. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    Okay, I was wrong. UNTHSC and MSU-COM are not part of the NIH MSTP program per se, but I do know that UNTHSC's MSTP program receives federal funds for training dual degree medical students via other federal funding mechanisms (F-31's, National Science Awards, etc). I imagine that the situation is similar at Michigan State. For the record, I completed a DO/MS NIH K-30 program at UNTHSC with the MS in Clinical Research. I also have a MPH degree. As you might guess, I'm interested in clinical outcomes research.

    I do not think that UNTHSC and MSU-COM or other DO schools offering combined degree programs are just handing out PhD's willy-nilly! DO/PhD students work hard to finish their requirements--often taking 7 years or more to complete the full program. Most MD schools that have MD/PhD programs are not in the NIH MSTP program either. For example, I was accepted to the Univ of Illinois MD/PhD Medical Scholar program, but elected to attend UNTHSC and do the DO/MPH program instead. The Univ of Illinois program was very rigorous and offered MD/PhD training in the social sciences---something that MSTP lacks---but the thought of 8 years in Urbana-Champaign was something I was not ready to accept.

    Anyway, I apologize for the over-zealous reaction on my part. Becoming part of the MSTP or the NIH's newly proposed Clinical Scientist Training Program (CSTP) is a worthy goal for osteopathic institutions.
     
  20. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    I checked out the UNTHSC site and funding is not guaranteed for the medical school years, only for the graduate school years. That's a big and important difference between a non-"MSTP" program and a "MSTP" program. The NIH-funded MSTP programs cover tuition and give a stipend for all years of medical school.

    MSU-COM doesn't say what funding they provide. I imagine it's the same. There aren't a whole lot of non-NIH programs that guarantee funding through the medical school years.
     
  21. shamus1

    shamus1 Member

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    It is my understanding that some schools, such as Harvard & Hopkins, do not guarantee funding for students in their programs. The point is that even those programs who hold NIH MSTP grants do not necessarily offer funding to everyone that is accepted. If funding is an issue for you (as it is for most everyone), you might want contact a school to make sure that they offer full funding from Day One to everyone in the program, regardless of whether that funding comes from the NIH or some other source.
     
  22. Sonic Hedgehog

    Sonic Hedgehog MSTP guru

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    The difference between Harvard and Hopkins, and other MSTPs is that there are a few people every year, who are so die-hard fans of those schools, that they are committed enough to fund their own education in the MD/PhD program, without federal money. Both Harvard and Hopkins know this. Therefore, when they make MD/PhD offers, they first make the offer of acceptance, which CLEARLY STIPULATES that it is not an offer of funding. Funding offers are made later, and offered students are given until April 15th (at least at Hopkins) to decide, before next batch of funding offers are mailed out... this way these schools ensure that ALL of the available NIH funded slots are filled every year, and every year a few students join using their personal funds.... we have two students joining the MD/PhD program at Hopkins this way (one of them applied for an individual NRSA fellowship and got his funding), and last year there was one student doing the MD/PhD through his personal funds.
     

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