PDs "going down their list"

[yunfat]

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Looked around for an answer to this for awhile, but still don't really understand it... hopefully someone can explain this to me?

How does telling a program director that you're ranking them first help? Don't they rank candidates based on their preference (much like we rank them)? If their first choice matched elsewhere, then they'll just go down their list, right? I mean, if you're going to be in the top 50 of their list, why would they move you up just because you will rank them first? Cuz at the end of the day, you will still match at their program. Similarly, if you're way bottom on their list, I doubt they would move you up to above the previous year's cutoff just because you rank them first...

I guess the bottomline question I'm asking is - What advantage is it for an applicant or program director to let the program know that you are ranking them first? Why wouldn't a program director want to "go down the list" ???

Sorry if this is a stupid question...

 

[GoofyDoc]

It's not a stupid question. I don't know the answer to that, but I would guess that part of the reasoning behind it is that programs would prefer matching people who really want to be there. 😕

 

[kelldoc]

I think that it all comes down to the applicant pool. Think about it this way...20% of those applying are top tier applicants, 20% are bottom tier, that leaves 60% in the middle tier. So for the large majority of us in the middle tier without little to distinguish us from each other, it is important to tell PDs that they are number 1 because it may put you above random other middle tier applicant. At least this is how I understand it.

 

[DoctorDo-Little]

Yeah, so I've been thinking about this too, and the only thing that I could come up with is that PDs probably prefer to have house staff that are excited and enthusiastic about their program. So, if a PD is trying to compare the relative merits of many similar applicants, they might give a better ranking to one who they think will show up early everyday with a smiling face, high-fiving the nurses on the way in...

Other than that, it seems like the best ROL strategy is the same for both programs and applicants: Rank in order of preferance, period.

 

[lurkerboy]

In the match, one of the benchmark programs look at is how long their match list is, and how far on that list they went. The extreme of this is the PD's biggest fear: to have unfilled spots. If a program wants you, and they know you are ranking them highly, they will rank you higher. They they don't want you, it probably won't make much of a difference.

A PD can't believe all the emails from applicants they get saying they are ranking "#1" , but they do believe it in the setting of also getting a call from your med school's PD or dean. This is why, if you have your dean call a program and you don't rank them #1, it will hurt your med school's reputation.

Another factor, as other's have mentioned, is that a program wants people who want to be there.

 

[yunfat]

but assuming that the program does fill (like most of the programs that we are writing to)... why does it matter how far down the list they go? Especially with the top programs that we all know will fill, how does telling them change anything??? I mean, nobody ever gets to see how far down the list they go or how long their list is anyway, right? I just don't understand why they wouldn't just rank according to their preference even if you already tell them you are ranking them first... sorry if i'm repeating...

 

[orientedtoself]

You can get an idea of how many applicants a program goes through per spot by checking how many interviews they offer per spot. I used this number to get a rough idea of the competitiveness of the programs I was looking at early in the year. It's published in FREIDA. A program that interviews 20 applicants per spot is obviously not as competitive as one that interviews seven. I've heard that top programs go through about four applicants per spot to fill: there is a group of applicants that receives interviews at most of the top programs, and they are pretty evenly spread out by choice during the match. If a program interviews eight applicants per spot and only goes through half of its list to fill, you know it's a competitive program to get into.

 

[Jitterbug79]

Even programs like MGH and Brigham go down four spots on the list per space available? I would think it would be less than that.

 

[BigBadBix]

oops - double post

 

[BigBadBix]

Even programs like MGH and Brigham go down four spots on the list per space available? I would think it would be less than that.

I think the "elites" (BWH, MGH, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, Stanford, Columbia, etc.) are all interviewing the same relatively small group of strong applicants. They probably go fairly far down their lists, despite being very competitive at the interview stage.

 

[Plesso]

I've noticed on the interview trail that some PD's like to say that they have only had to go down to #X to fill all their positions the last X # of years...Somehow they think it makes them look more appealing if they aren't having to go far down their rank list...So (like someone already said), if you let your #1 know that they are at the top of your list, and they like you, they will take the sure bet and rank you highly.

 

[Zolpidem25]

I've noticed on the interview trail that some PD's like to say that they have only had to go down to #X to fill all their positions the last X # of years...Somehow they think it makes them look more appealing if they aren't having to go far down their rank list...So (like someone already said), if you let your #1 know that they are at the top of your list, and they like you, they will take the sure bet and rank you highly.

so it's an ego thing?? they shuffle their list around, in order to make #X a smaller number?

 

[Plesso]

so it's an ego thing?? they shuffle their list around, in order to make #X a smaller number?

It's probably just one of many tactics to get you to rank them highly...other methods include emails and letters from the PD saying how much they like you and that you're a good fit...obviously some of these correspondences are genuine but probably not all....so in the end...go with your gut!

 

[stat!!]

It's probably just one of many tactics to get you to rank them highly...other methods include emails and letters from the PD saying how much they like you and that you're a good fit...obviously some of these correspondences are genuine but probably not all....so in the end...go with your gut!

If it's an ego thing, than it's bizarre. I think the programs must publish this info in some way. Otherwise, as long as they don't have unfilled spots, who would know? Is it true that programs will make up their lists at the end of January early February? If I think that the program I will rank number one has already made up their list, should I have my PD call a different one? (Assuming that once the list is made, it won't be changed, and that my PD will call only one). Nefarious...

 

[whispers]

What do you do if your dean does not make calls for students?

In the match, one of the benchmark programs look at is how long their match list is, and how far on that list they went. The extreme of this is the PD's biggest fear: to have unfilled spots. If a program wants you, and they know you are ranking them highly, they will rank you higher. They they don't want you, it probably won't make much of a difference.

A PD can't believe all the emails from applicants they get saying they are ranking "#1" , but they do believe it in the setting of also getting a call from your med school's PD or dean. This is why, if you have your dean call a program and you don't rank them #1, it will hurt your med school's reputation.

Another factor, as other's have mentioned, is that a program wants people who want to be there.