Pediatric residency question/competitiveness of programs

[Pedi FTW]

I am a rising third year who will be applying to pediatrics and was informed by my dean during my MSPE interview today that due to a pass in my family medicine clerkship that I would likely no longer be competitive at places like Cincinnati, Boston, CHOP, and Hopkins. My other stats are:
Step 1: 266
1st and 2nd year HP, 2 H and one P
3rd year clerkships all H except for family. I still don't understand what happened there, honored the shelf but my eval was way out of left field with no explanation.
Some research with three publications in progress.
Gold Humanism Honors Society
Several scholarships
The usual volunteer and leadership stuff.

I thought she was kidding but then I started to panic as she went on about how competitive the top programs are and I should really start looking at lower tier programs.

For real?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cowme]

You always want a couple low tiers as safeties. The people who get big heads and exclusively apply to top 25 programs are the ones who don't match.

 

[loveoforganic]

^While that's true, I have a very hard time believe the op wouldn't still be competitive at top tier peds programs

 

[cowme]

Of course. But I think The dean has enough experience with people who thought they were hot stuff only to go unmatched (s)he is just trying to prevent an overinflated ego. The OP wouldn't be the first person with great stats to slip through the cracks, no matter how unlikely it is.

 

[drizzt3117]

That is absolutely untrue. You'd be likely competitive for any program in any specialty, much less peds. One of my friends matched at CHOP with step in the low 250s w/ several Ps M3 (no AOA) and less research. One of my classmates this year interviewed at cincinnati with a step in the 220s.

 

[mimelim]

Most deans will do a good job lowering people's expectations and egos. This is a good thing. But give me a break. This dean is obviously going overboard. I know its hard to see since its happening to you, but nobody is going to care that you, "only passed FM". I mean for Christ sake I don't think GS/Vascular even look at clerkships outside of IM/Surgery. Never mind that you have the complete package outside of that....

I am still trying to figure out if you are trolling...

 

[cowme]

That is absolutely untrue. You'd be likely competitive for any program in any specialty, much less peds. One of my friends matched at CHOP with step in the low 250s w/ several Ps M3 (no AOA) and less research. One of my classmates this year interviewed at cincinnati with a step in the 220s.

Maybe I'm blinded by being more familiar with the radiology boards, but I feel like I read a story almost every year about some paper stud with AOA at a great school, publications and beastly steps end up shocked when they matched at a low tier program or not at all.

I agree that the OP will almost certainly match at a great peds program, but the possibility of not matching at a top tier one DOES exist. I can almost guarantee you the dean has seen it happen before, and was just trying to make that clear so the OP braces for the worst and includes a couple safeties

 

[oldbearprofessor]

For real?

No. Either you are trolling, which I doubt, or you're leaving out a piece of the story, or you're exaggerating/mistating what the dean said. Or, your dean is a jerk who is trying to scare you for no good reason. No one in pedi cares about your FM grade in particular. Your specialty/sub-I in pedi areas counts VASTLY more to pedi programs as does the research and of course, your letters of rec.

Regardless, apply to the top programs, apply to a couple midrange programs and apply to a few community based excellent programs (there are several) so you know what you like.

Then, go to the pedi forum and tell us about your interview experiences there.

Also, say hi to me when I interview you. (added for paranoia value )

OBP

 

[Pedi FTW]

She has a reputation for scaring the bejesus out of us in all regards, seriously scary individual sometimes. Still I value her opinion as I have obviously never applied to residency and she graduates a substantial sized class every year.

Thank you for the realistic perspective. I had planned to apply to some safety schools because to do otherwise wouldn't be wise, I was just very distraught at doors being closed before the process even began.

 

[drizzt3117]

Maybe I'm blinded by being more familiar with the radiology boards, but I feel like I read a story almost every year about some paper stud with AOA at a great school, publications and beastly steps end up shocked when they matched at a low tier program or not at all.

I agree that the OP will almost certainly match at a great peds program, but the possibility of not matching at a top tier one DOES exist. I can almost guarantee you the dean has seen it happen before, and was just trying to make that clear so the OP braces for the worst and includes a couple safeties

I don't think any good candidate didn't match this year in rads and even if they had, they'd have been able to scramble into amazing programs this cycle. I definitely only applied to top 25s (and academic CA programs) and had no problems.

 

[cowme]

Someone at my school with great stats (similar to the op's) didnt match 2 years ago ( and only interviewed at top tier programs). To each their own

 

[drizzt3117]

Someone at my school with great stats (similar to the op's) didnt match 2 years ago ( and only interviewed at top tier programs). To each their own

In peds? Bs.

In 2011, 97 people applied to peds with step 1 > 250, 100% of them matched.

In 2011, 228 us seniors applied to rads with step 1 > 250, and 226 matched (99.6%)

The chance of not matching in peds with 5 clinical honors, step 1 > 265, and 3 pubs is 0%. I would bet any quantity of money the OP matches.

 

[cowme]

In rads. I know it was more competitive then but it was still insane

 

[drizzt3117]

In rads. I know it was more competitive then but it was still insane

Read the data above.

BTW, I think the top programs were actually more competitive this year, but mid tiers were much easier. There were about 85 ppl with step 1 > 260 this year compared to 66 in 2011. Interestingly I talked to a Beaumont attending who told me the people filling their 5 scramble spots were all 250+ with AOA. He said they weren't upset about not filling bc they knew they'd get good people in the soap so they were really selective in the first round and didn't rank all of their interviewees.

 

[cowme]

That's not what I'm talking about though. You have no Idea how many matched at CHOP, Boston children's with steps >250. I'm willing to bet a couple fell down to a lower tier unexpectedly, but still matched because they were smart about applying broadly. You're talking matching vs not matching. I'm talking matching at a top tier or not

 

[drizzt3117]

That's not what I'm talking about though. You have no Idea how many matched at CHOP, Boston children's with steps >250. I'm willing to bet a couple fell down to a lower tier unexpectedly, but still matched because they were smart about applying broadly. You're talking matching vs not matching. I'm talking matching at a top tier or not

Right, I'm sure the OP knows they're not a LOCK to match at the top programs, but saying they aren't competitive for them is just stupid. There were < 30 people with step 1 > 260 that applied peds, which is fewer than spots available at bch and chop. I bet the ppl with step 1 > 265 and 5 honors can be counted on one hand.

 

[mimelim]

That's not what I'm talking about though. You have no Idea how many matched at CHOP, Boston children's with steps >250. I'm willing to bet a couple fell down to a lower tier unexpectedly, but still matched because they were smart about applying broadly. You're talking matching vs not matching. I'm talking matching at a top tier or not

Nobody is arguing that 250+ doesn't guarantee a spot at a top program regardless of specialty or not to have a healthy match list. What we ARE arguing is that getting a pass in FM when the rest of the application is damn near perfect is insignificant. If the OP doesn't match a top program it is because they left a big red flag out or blows interviews not because of random bad luck and/or they got a pass in FM.

 

[cowme]

Right. And I never disagreed with that. But I interpreted the OP as freaking out that the dean didnt reassure her enough and suggested she apply to a couple low tier programs just in case.

 

[Guillemot]

In response to the op. Dont apply to too few programs or attend interviews at too few programs. Eg. A 95/100 chance of matching is good unless you are one of the 5 that doesnt match.

 

[mimelim]

I agree. The dean's job isn't to hold your hand, stroke your ego and/or be your wellness counselor, its to make sure that you match, at the best place possible for you, but match. When we went into the match I thought there was no way people would go unmatched, but there were people with 240+ who didn't make it and had to SOAP.

 

[drizzt3117]

Right. And I never disagreed with that. But I interpreted the OP as freaking out that the dean didnt reassure her enough and suggested she apply to a couple low tier programs just in case.

Except what the OP said was "my dean says I'm no longer competitive for the top programs" which is a flat out lie.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

I agree. The dean's job isn't to hold your hand, stroke your ego and/or be your wellness counselor, its to make sure that you match, at the best place possible for you, but match. When we went into the match I thought there was no way people would go unmatched, but there were people with 240+ who didn't make it and had to SOAP.

It is also the dean's job to ENCOURAGE students to apply to competitive programs and places that might be a "stretch" alongside the warnings about not aiming only for highly ranked programs.

Also, since this thread is specific to pedi, remember that STEP 1 isn't a big discriminator in pedi programs, even at the top places. To be sure, the top places have averages in the 235-245 range often, but plenty of matches well below that. Also, since this is pedi, "top places" are far more than the 4 listed by the OP.

 

[mimelim]

It is also the dean's job to ENCOURAGE students to apply to competitive programs and places that might be a "stretch" alongside the warnings about not aiming only for highly ranked programs.

Also, since this thread is specific to pedi, remember that STEP 1 isn't a big discriminator in pedi programs, even at the top places. To be sure, the top places have averages in the 235-245 range often, but plenty of matches well below that. Also, since this is pedi, "top places" are far more than the 4 listed by the OP.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I think that the dean is flat out wrong. But I don't think that anything the dean says is going to stop the OP or anyone else from applying to the top programs. People tend to apply to high and thats why they tend to come across as harsh and disparaging.

 

[Pedi FTW]

Our school used to be a top 40 research institution but has fallen on some unfortunate circumstances. With regards to the match, although we post fair/good statistics, we are by no means churning out a ton of individuals headed to plastics, dermatology, top 25 institutions. Added to this is the fact that this year, we had two individuals who were AOA, 250+ and had to enter the SOAP (one was ER, the other was urology) and in my graduating class alone, there are 7 individuals who are either junior AOA or likely to make senior AOA (which I will most likely not) with all honors in third year and 250+ that are all applying to pediatrics this year. Must be something in the water here, I swear, because literally 30% of my graduating class is going into pediatrics.

I am hoping my class is an anomaly, but I am guessing by the conversation we had, this was all a factor in her advice. Plus there was considerable concern by everyone in the student affairs office because this year all foreign medical graduates enter the NRMP with us rather than pre-match (although if there are the same number of spots I still don't understand how this will make the match more competitive).

 

[Chakrabs]

Your dean is talking out their ass. A pass in family medicine is not going to prevent you from getting considered at the top peds programs in the country. Your application looks fantastic. Do some peds rotations in some of those top-places and get some good LORs. Unless you come across as a sociopath during your interviews, you'll be matching just fine, trust me.

 

[drizzt3117]

If you have a 250/AOA and aren't matching EM, then you're either a douche or not applying intelligently. I think people should follow the rule of 1/3rds when applying regardless of qualifications although that is hard at the top end.

Our school used to be a top 40 research institution but has fallen on some unfortunate circumstances. With regards to the match, although we post fair/good statistics, we are by no means churning out a ton of individuals headed to plastics, dermatology, top 25 institutions. Added to this is the fact that this year, we had two individuals who were AOA, 250+ and had to enter the SOAP (one was ER, the other was urology) and in my graduating class alone, there are 7 individuals who are either junior AOA or likely to make senior AOA (which I will most likely not) with all honors in third year and 250+ that are all applying to pediatrics this year. Must be something in the water here, I swear, because literally 30% of my graduating class is going into pediatrics.

I am hoping my class is an anomaly, but I am guessing by the conversation we had, this was all a factor in her advice. Plus there was considerable concern by everyone in the student affairs office because this year all foreign medical graduates enter the NRMP with us rather than pre-match (although if there are the same number of spots I still don't understand how this will make the match more competitive).