Peds EM fellowships with EM-trained fellows?

[leaft]

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i want to do a peds fellowship, and as both peds and emergency residents can go into peds em, there tends to be programs that prefer one over the other... for example, children's national medical center in d.c. doesn't even accept applications from em based folks.

so... i'm trying to compile a list of peds em fellowships that have em trained fellows, or would like to have em trained fellows.

i would appreciate your help by listing programs if you have personal knowledge of the accepting, or not accepting em folks.

thanks!!

 

[Colbert]

http://www.saem.org/saemdnn/Home/Co...atricEmergencyMedicine/tabid/867/Default.aspx

 

[Arcan57]

Cincinnati Childrens' has accepted at least one EM trained doc into fellowship.

 

[Hamhock]

I bet most Peds EM fellowship directors would LOVE to have EM-trained folks, but they just can't get them.

HH

 

[deleted109597]

I bet most Peds EM fellowship directors would LOVE to have EM-trained folks, but they just can't get them.

HH

You would think that. But a lot of the fellowship directors are peds trained, and prefer to teach AAP style emergency medicine, instead of ABEM style.

Also, many of the places (especially UAB) make the EM people finish all 3 years instead of the 2 required by ABEM.

 

[leaft]

You would think that. But a lot of the fellowship directors are peds trained, and prefer to teach AAP style emergency medicine, instead of ABEM style.

Also, many of the places (especially UAB) make the EM people finish all 3 years instead of the 2 required by ABEM.

exactly! and i'm trying to figure out that info now, before my application process in a few months... that info isn't always available on websites...

I also find it interesting that the SAEM website lists Children's National that specifically states (both in person and on their website) that they do not train EM folks. period.

so... i guess my questions are...

who takes EM folks (or wants them)?
who allows for a 2 year fellowship? versus who makes everyone do 3?
who says they take EM folks on their website, but never interviews or accepts them? (i've heard a few rumors...)

thanks to anyone who can give me specific info!! i appreciate it!!

 

[DOnut]

SUNY Upstate Medical University has an excellent Peds EM fellowship and has a history of accepting EM trained people. There is currently 1 fellow that is EM trained and 2 fellows that are Peds trained, but the 2 fellows accepted for next year are BOTH EM tained. I did my residency there and Peds was definitely one of the strongest aspects of this program.

 

[ccfccp]

ORMC/Arnold Palmer Children's Hospital in Orlando currently has at least one.

 

[turkeyjerky]

You would think that. But a lot of the fellowship directors are peds trained, and prefer to teach AAP style emergency medicine, instead of ABEM style.

Also, many of the places (especially UAB) make the EM people finish all 3 years instead of the 2 required by ABEM.

Anyone care to elaborate on AAP vs ABEM style emergency medicine?

 

[leaft]

I appreciate the PMs about programs that take EM folks. Please keep em coming!

If anyone has info about their home program or programs that they have rotated with in regards to their acceptance of EM trained folks to Peds EM fellowships, please let me know...

 

[AmoryBlaine]

AAP PEM programs are 3 years (AAP rule).

If you graduate from a decent adult EM program you do NOT need a 3 year fellowship in PEM to get the requisite clinical training.

Anyone looking at this career track should look very carefully into it before jumping in. Most Peds EM people are very peds-minded (lots of consulting, lots of agonizing over each cc of fluid) and 3 years training under them seeing about 90% fewer sick patients would drive the average adult EM trained person out of their mind.

 

[Pinner Doc]

Primary Children's Medical Center in SLC, Utah accepts EM trained folks.

 

[deuist]

SUNY Downstate/Kings County advertises that it takes EM folks for 2 years.

 

[mfleur]

I'm going to Childrens Oakland next year. So....safe to say they take EM peeps.

 

[Arcan57]

Anyone care to elaborate on AAP vs ABEM style emergency medicine?

For better or worse, pediatric medicine has it's own style and is often played very differently from the training we get in EM. In some ways, we come off as over-aggressive jackholes when treating kids compared to our peds EM brethern and in others they come off as wishy-washy and over-cautious. It's not an either/or, but there are strong trends and you'll know what I mean based on how painful it is to work with a very peds oriented attending.

There are very prestigious peds residency where the level of decision making never drops below the attending and is very frequently the subspecialty attending. Being trained in that style makes the leap to "things need to happen right now" more difficult.

 

[jendc08]

Children's in Pittsburgh

 

[tkim]

Buffalo took an EM fellow and let him graduate in 2 years while I was there.

 

[Mudpile MD]

Carolinas in Charlotte has an EM trained peds fellow

 

[tegs15]

yea but the EM Fellows don't handle the airway at Pittsburgh. It is all taken care of by the PICU Fellows who report to the ED for all airway and trauma issues.

 

[djkl]

Primary Children's Medical Center in SLC, Utah accepts EM trained folks.

How long is the program for the EM trained folks?

 

[leaft]

Baystate
Boston Children's
Boston Medical
Brown
Carolinas Medical Center
CHOP
Loma Linda
Michigan
Minnesota
Regions
Seattle

All of the above fellowships interviewed me as an EM resident and were excited at the possibility of having EM residents in the future.

 

[la gringa]

Wake Forest takes EM trained folks. The peds ED is run by the dept of EM, not peds... leads to a more EM friendly environment.

Children's Memorial in Chicago is NOT EM friendly, they won't budge on the 3 yrs.

pretty sure INOVA Fairfax takes EM folks too, or at least they did a few yrs ago.

WakeMed has a program that takes EM folks as well.

i looked into doing a peds fellowship, decided it wasn't for me.

 

[UnderwaterDoc]

SUNY Upstate Medical University has an excellent Peds EM fellowship and has a history of accepting EM trained people. There is currently 1 fellow that is EM trained and 2 fellows that are Peds trained, but the 2 fellows accepted for next year are BOTH EM tained. I did my residency there and Peds was definitely one of the strongest aspects of this program.

Second vote for SUNY Upstate here.

This is a very strong Peds program, and you get to learn from Sadowitz and Cantor, the fathers of Peds-EM.

 

[BJJVP]

I know that Rainbow Babies in Cleveland, OH has graduated an EM trained fellow.

 

[Socrates25]

AAP PEM programs are 3 years (AAP rule).

If you graduate from a decent adult EM program you do NOT need a 3 year fellowship in PEM to get the requisite clinical training.

Anyone looking at this career track should look very carefully into it before jumping in. Most Peds EM people are very peds-minded (lots of consulting, lots of agonizing over each cc of fluid) and 3 years training under them seeing about 90% fewer sick patients would drive the average adult EM trained person out of their mind.

I agree 100%, I've been working the last couple of years in a peds ER. Peds EM acuity level is several orders of magnitude less than an adult ER. Be prepared for diaper rashes and constipation all day long. The upside is that you dont have to deal with drug seeking patients. I can pretty much remember every single patient that I've discharged from the ER on narcotics.

I will say that for the rare occassions when a critically ill child comes in to the ER, everything literally stops, its a very different feel from an adult ER where codes are common enough that they are almost routine.

IMHO, peds EM is much more primary care based than adult EM because parents freak out about their kids way too much and take them to ERs far too often when they dont need to be there. Of course that happens on the adult side too, but not to the same extent.

If you find yourself getting pissed off about seeing 40 kids in a shift with runny noses during flu season, then dont do peds EM. Also, peds EM pays a lot less than adult EM from what I have seen.

P.S. children are everything that is good and right about the world.