Penn (21st Century Scholarship) vs Harvard

[koalaburrito]

Hey all!
So I have been crazy fortunate this cycle and now I am trying to decide between my top 2 options. If you would've told me that I had either of these options a year ago I would've taken either of them in a heartbeat. I am not trying to find out what I like, just which is the smarter decision. For background, my family is all out west and I would love to end up in California for residency. I am thinking of pursuing ophthalmology or derm. I may want to do a second degree (30% chance), and if I did I would probably do an MBA or MPP. My partner works as a nurse and job prospects are great in both cities. We are outdoorsy and love hiking etc. We have an ok amount of savings and the cost difference between the two after Harvard need-based aid would be about $35k/year. Ultimately we could probably graduate from Harvard with $30-80/k in debt so that wouldn't be bad at all.

Harvard (Pathways or HST)
+ The prestige outside of medicine (I would say within medicine both names carry the same weight..?)
+ More students match in Cali for residency
+ Boston (I've heard) is a cooler city with better access to VT, NH, ME etc
+ 1 year preclinical (I got into Pathways and HST but I would probably do Pathways)
- Apartments would be crappier AND more expensive
- Without merit scholarship, it would cost $35k/year more
- You need to go to class every day

Penn
+ We could graduate with SAVINGS and also there wouldn't be the mental stress of living frugally
+ Wharton / emphasis on quality improvement and health econ which I am passionate about
+ I got better vibes on interview day (sucks that we can't get a second look)
- Outside of medicine everyone would think I went to Penn State (that kind of matters to me)
- More integrated with the undergrad
- AOA, Clinical year is all graded (HMS only posts your grades for medicine + what specialty you want to pursue)

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[meronebib]

Penn. It will not hinder you from your future goals. I really only think the additional benefit you’d get from Harvard is possibly an easier match into MGH and also more clout when talking with your friends. I appreciate your honesty that “Penn” doesn’t roll off the tongue nicely to the public. But I just don’t think that’s worth 140k. Look, in the future, if you want to be an ophthalmologist, the top programs are going to be places like UMiami, Jefferson, Iowa... places that won’t impress your friends. At some point, caring about how others think will only hinder your decision making.

 

[camnewton1]

So if I’m understanding correctly, at Penn you’d graduate debt free, while at Harvard you’d graduate with 30-80k in debt total after 4 years??

If that’s the case, I’d choose Harvard based on your pros/cons list. It seems like the Harvard prestige factor is a pretty big factor for you. Also considering that Harvard doesn’t have AOA or clinical grades, I think that’s a huge plus over Penn.

If you’re taking like 30k in debt I’d choose Harvard. If its closer to 100-150k in debt, then I’d go with Penn.

 

[koalaburrito]

Should I weight match lists at all? Like do you think I would be limited in my ability to match where I wanted (aside from the Harvard affiliate difference) coming out of Penn? Again I know that's a silly question to ask, but at the margin?

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

Penn. Sound great to me!

Match lists varies. You won’t have a problem getting back to CA.

Take the money and run ...

 

[9blade]

You won't be limited coming from Penn. You can match anywhere in the country coming from either of these schools. To me, personally, it's not worth taking on 140K of debt more to go to Harvard instead of Penn. That's just me. But since prestige outside of medicine is important to you, I think you should do it and have peace of mind. 140K is a lot to pay back with interests, but if you're going to be an ophthalmologist/dermatologist, and your wife also has a high income as a nurse, you could pay it back easily. So I think, for you, going to Harvard would be better.

 

[camnewton1]

Should I weight match lists at all? Like do you think I would be limited in my ability to match where I wanted (aside from the Harvard affiliate difference) coming out of Penn? Again I know that's a silly question to ask, but at the margin?

I think Harvard’s match list is pretty clearly the best across all med schools. Penn is also obviously really strong. The difference is marginal but there is still a difference. I personally wouldn’t let that be the sole deciding factor.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

@efle can speak to this since he goes to a “top 5” school.

But tbh my impression is that HMS gives you an advantage in matching to Brigham and Mass gen more than other schools. But besides that all the top 5 schools match quite well. Plus MGH and Brigham are not necessarily the top of every field either. Like one poster pointed out even within the surgical sub specialties some surprising institutions are at the top of the fields. Another example would be ortho program at rush being strong, or ENT at Ohio state.

Penn will not hold you back at all and you will have more opportunities than you know what to do with and throw on the fact of graduating debt free from there? To me that seals the deal.

But at the end of the day if you want to go to HMS that’s also a personal decision and you earned the right to go there if you choose too, and thankfully you won’t have crazy debt!

Congrats on your success you deserve it

 

[efle]

Penn on scholly and it isn't even ****ing close. The only exception might be if you intend to spend your career in Boston at one of the Harvard ivory towers; their home-match rate out of HMS is obscene. But as someone interested in returning to the west coast, a full ride to a place like Penn or WashU beats the need-only aid at HMS/Hopkins every time.

 

[longhaul3]

If you're saying you have enough savings to make the difference only 35k/yr, then you have a good amount of money saved. Don't spend it on Harvard when you can use it to buy a nice house in residency or start saving for college. True, $30-80k debt is not much for med school, but if you have substantial savings—which few med students do—that money can do big things for you while you're on the long road to that attending paycheck. For someone with no savings, I don't think the difference in debt would matter too much, but I think it would be a bad move to blow what you already have.

VERY few people can (or should) turn down Harvard when they come calling. The name carries an outsize weight that is hard to explain. I think you should go to Penn.

 

[efle]

If you're saying you have enough savings to make the difference only 35k/yr, then you have a good amount of money saved. Don't spend it on Harvard when you can use it to buy a nice house in residency or start saving for college. True, $30-80k debt is not much for med school, but if you have substantial savings—which few med students do—that money can do big things for you while you're on the long road to that attending paycheck. For someone with no savings, I don't think the difference in debt would matter too much, but I think it would be a bad move to blow what you already have.

VERY few people can (or should) turn down Harvard when they come calling. The name carries an outsize weight that is hard to explain. I think you should go to Penn.

I think the outsized weight is mostly on web forums and in New England. I'm from CA myself and everyone's top choice for college, med school, MBA etc is Stanford. In the midwest everyone was content to spend their careers at WashU/Barnes, and at Hopkins everyone thinks the best place for med ed and training is Hopkins. I certainly wouldn't expect HMS to give you any edge over Penn for matching the rest of the country.

 

[Pluto98]

I think the outsized weight is mostly on web forums and in New England. I'm from CA myself and everyone's top choice for college, med school, MBA etc is Stanford. In the midwest everyone was content to spend their careers at WashU/Barnes, and at Hopkins everyone thinks the best place for med ed and training is Hopkins. I certainly wouldn't expect HMS to give you any edge over Penn for matching the rest of the country.

Off topic, but how are schools like Penn, Hopkins, and Yale viewed in CA? Does the average person there know hopkins?

 

[efle]

Off topic, but how are schools like Penn, Hopkins, and Yale viewed in CA? Does the average person there know hopkins?

Yes, we're still aware of the institutions with particular strengths like Wharton in business or MIT in engineering or Hopkins in medicine. But much less of an obsession with the 300 year old Ivy name branding, many from the west would rather get equally good educations from Hass/GSB or CalTech or UCSF/Stanford instead of making the move.

 

[Lawpy]

Penn hands down easily

 

[TheDataKing]

+10 (or like +1000 d/t lurkers) for UPenn

 

[longhaul3]

I think the outsized weight is mostly on web forums and in New England. I'm from CA myself and everyone's top choice for college, med school, MBA etc is Stanford. In the midwest everyone was content to spend their careers at WashU/Barnes, and at Hopkins everyone thinks the best place for med ed and training is Hopkins. I certainly wouldn't expect HMS to give you any edge over Penn for matching the rest of the country.

In medicine the effect is smaller, and it's almost non-existent among physicians. But when it comes to the general public, the Harvard name is mystical in a way that no other name comes close to. It's not deserved, but people absolutely fawn over it. I've lived all over, and it holds true everywhere I've been. The word itself is like a spell out of Harry Potter.

This is particularly noticeable for the college. The education itself is not special on average and is probably outclassed by most great small schools like WashU, Williams, probably even JHU undergrad. But the diploma is a golden ticket. Because of that, Harvard's head-to-head yield vs. every other institution is overwhelming (Stanford is probably the only one that is less than 2/3), which is why I said that not many people turn it down when it comes calling.

 

[efle]

In medicine the effect is smaller, and it's almost non-existent among physicians. But when it comes to the general public, the Harvard name is mystical in a way that no other name comes close to. It's not deserved, but people absolutely fawn over it. I've lived all over, and it holds true everywhere I've been. The word itself is like a spell out of Harry Potter.

This is particularly noticeable for the college. The education itself is not special on average and is probably outclassed by most great small schools like WashU, Williams, probably even JHU undergrad. But the diploma is a golden ticket. Because of that, Harvard's head-to-head yield vs. every other institution is overwhelming (Stanford is probably the only one that is less than 2/3), which is why I said that not many people turn it down when it comes calling.

30% of HMS admits turn it down, though. I personally know someone who turned it down for UCLA, it happens frequently. And when you try to look at degree value objectively, like at salary data of alumni, both the college and HBS come in behind peers like Stanford and Princeton or Wharton. I see statements like the bolded all over the place on SDN, but have never seen it work like that IRL or anything data wise to back it up.

 

[koalaburrito]

30% of HMS admits turn it down, though. I personally know someone who turned it down for UCLA, it happens frequently. And when you try to look at degree value objectively, like at salary data of alumni, both the college and HBS come in behind peers like Stanford and Princeton or Wharton. I see statements like the bolded all over the place on SDN, but have never seen it work like that IRL or anything data wise to back it up.

These are all great points and I appreciate the new info. It's hard because my brain says Penn for sure, but my heart says HMS. Did I bust my butt to go to a T5 school for free? Or did I work hard to go to Harvard? I really don't know. If they were the same cost would you all go to Harvard?

 

[longhaul3]

30% of HMS admits turn it down, though. I personally know someone who turned it down for UCLA, it happens frequently. And when you try to look at degree value objectively, like at salary data of alumni, both the college and HBS come in behind peers like Stanford and Princeton or Wharton. I see statements like the bolded all over the place on SDN, but have never seen it work like that IRL or anything data wise to back it up.

The second paragraph I was talking mostly about the college. The data are out there for the head-to-head yields. I don't know anything about the b-school world so I will defer to you 100% on that (edit: now realizing you were talking about Wharton undergrad here). I've never looked at measures of the outcomes. Just off the top of my head I can think of a whole bunch of confounders that would make that a mess of an exercise, although I'm sure there's a whole boutique industry dedicated to it. I say this mainly just from extensive personal experience. The matriculation yield is real, though.

Two reasons I think it's less prominent for HMS than the college: 1) money is a much bigger part of the med school admissions calculus; 2) there's a much greater standardization and equality of outcomes in medicine than really any other profession I can think of.

 

[efle]

These are all great points and I appreciate the new info. It's hard because my brain says Penn for sure, but my heart says HMS. Did I bust my butt to go to a T5 school for free? Or did I work hard to go to Harvard? I really don't know. If they were the same cost would you all go to Harvard?

If I had all schools on the table for free Harvard wouldn't even be in my top three. But, I've never been caught up in the name like so many others I see on SDN. The idea of trading years of early retirement to have HMS instead of Penn on my CV strikes me as absurd.

See this comment from a similar discussion:

Do you mean medical school ranks? I made this thread a couple years back

Historical US News Rankings

I've seen this nice lil table of old US News rankings shared around SDN before, and thought I'd make a new one that is updated, has more schools, and is large enough for the human eye. I did the past 10 years for the current first 25 schools (26 really, since 25th was a tie). Here it is for...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Also worth reading would be Chronicidal's old classic blog post about why Harvard is the perennial #1. It's fascinating to data nerds like me -

They don't have the highest LizzyM (WashU)
They don't have the best funded hospital (Hopkins)
They don't have the best Residency Director rating (lower to Hopkins, Penn and UCSF)
They don't have the lowest admit rate of top schools (Stanford)
They don't have a higher Peer rating (tie with Hopkins and UCSF)
They aren't the OG modern med school education design (Flexner report picked Hopkins)

The only metric to buoy them year after year is that they have the largest network of hospitals owned under their umbrella. So their total NIH numbers look vastly higher, despite individual sites like MGH and the Brigham being amongst their peers elsewhere (and the site that HMS students do most of their rotations at, Beth Israel, being lower).

Something to keep in mind whenever you see the most dangerous SDN meme: premeds convincing each other that attending HMS instead of taking a full ride scholarship to a peer school is justifiable!

 

[efle]

The second paragraph I was talking mostly about the college. The data are out there for the head-to-head yields. I don't know anything about the b-school world so I will defer to you 100% on that.

Two reasons I think it's less prominent for HMS than the college: 1) money is a much bigger part of the med school admissions calculus; 2) there's a much greater standardization and equality of outcomes in medicine than really any other profession I can think of.

All of the top undergrads boast insane yields now because they've started abusing Early Decision to fill the majority of their class. Easy to claim an 80% matriculation rate when you are running an early decision admit rate that is 3 or 4 or 5+ times as high as your regular decision admit rate. If you look for numbers at peers they're similar.

 

[finn_]

These are all great points and I appreciate the new info. It's hard because my brain says Penn for sure, but my heart says HMS. Did I bust my butt to go to a T5 school for free? Or did I work hard to go to Harvard? I really don't know. If they were the same cost would you all go to Harvard?

I didn't have to make the same decision as you, but I chose a UChicago full ride over a T5 (Stanford).

I personally think it's hard to divorce the money from the decision. I think there's a good chance I would have picked Stanford if the cost were the same, but that wasn't the reality of my decision. I felt the opportunities and freedom to do what I want (in terms of spending during school, specialty/career choice, etc) will open more doors for me than any perceived difference between two top schools.

After talking to my mentors (in the Harvard system so it's not like they don't care about prestige), they almost universally told me to go to UChicago. Even between these two, they basically said there is a negligible difference in prestige in medicine. The way they phrased it was when choosing between two great schools, the biggest determining factor in what you do after med school is you. I think that the freedom from debt will open more doors for you than the Harvard name ever will.

 

[longhaul3]

All of the top undergrads boast insane yields now because they've started abusing Early Decision to fill the majority of their class. Easy to claim an 80% matriculation rate when you are running an early decision admit rate that is 3 or 4 or 5+ times as high as your regular decision admit rate. If you look for numbers at peers they're similar.

I'm talking about head-to-head yield among students who were accepted to Harvard and Other EliteU. Not saying there's any educational merit behind it, and I believe you that outcomes demonstrate no material career advantage to it, but Harvard dominates every other school in that exercise. Just saying that to explain what I mean when I say people don't turn down Harvard when they call.

These are all great points and I appreciate the new info. It's hard because my brain says Penn for sure, but my heart says HMS. Did I bust my butt to go to a T5 school for free? Or did I work hard to go to Harvard? I really don't know. If they were the same cost would you all go to Harvard?

If you're always going to regret it for reasons of personal pride, go for it. You'll still have way less debt than most, plus a working spouse. I 100% understand the pull; it's what I've been trying to explain on this thread, even though it has no real rational foundation. But you should go to Penn for sure. If they were all the same cost I would go to Harvard for personal reasons, and, having the benefit of hindsight, because they have a much stronger department in my specialty (although neither is nearly as strong as my home dept was in med school, which is another thing people don't realize when comparing elite schools).

 

[efle]

although neither is nearly as strong as my home dept was in med school, which is another thing people don't realize when comparing elite schools

I'll echo this. My school is a tip-top program in ENT, neurosurg, plastics, ophtho, urology, gensurg ...sounds like a great place for Ortho right? Dead wrong. Hard to make use of this information as a premed (or even learn it) though since few people know what they want to do in MS1.

 

[efle]

I'm talking about head-to-head yield among students who were accepted to Harvard and Other EliteU. Not saying there's any educational merit behind it, and I believe you that outcomes demonstrate no material career advantage to it, but Harvard dominates every other school in that exercise. Just saying that to explain what I mean when I say people don't turn down Harvard when they call.

I'm curious, have you a source handy? My understanding of the modern HYPSM metagame was that essentially nobody was getting cross-admitted between them anymore.

 

[longhaul3]

I'm curious, have you a source handy? My understanding of the modern HYPSM metagame was that essentially nobody was getting cross-admitted between them anymore.

Based on your fluency in all things admissions across this site I assume you are way more informed than I am, and it's been a LONG time since I followed any of this, so I would believe you. (Edit: When I was applying to and in college, these cross-admits were common.)

Some guy here wrote an exquisitely detailed post about this. I don't know if things are way different now than they were 5 years ago, but it captures what my experience was years before that and just in my casual observations since then.

Here is a web tool using what I gather are pretty robust data, though I'm not really sure. Based on this tool it looks like Stanford is the only one that is even approaching parity.

I'll echo this. My school is a tip-top program in ENT, neurosurg, plastics, ophtho, urology, gensurg ...sounds like a great place for Ortho right? Dead wrong. Hard to make use of this information as a premed (or even learn it) though since few people know what they want to do in MS1.

I'm curious—do your students match still well in ortho? I assume they do because I know what school you're talking about, but I'm not too familiar with the ortho landscape.

 

[efle]

Based on your fluency in all things admissions across this site I assume you are way more informed than I am, and it's been a LONG time since I followed any of this, so I would believe you. (Edit: When I was applying to and in college, these cross-admits were common.)

Some guy here wrote an exquisitely detailed post about this. I don't know if things are way different now than they were 5 years ago, but it captures what my experience was years before that and just in my casual observations since then.

Here is a web tool using what I gather are pretty robust data, though I'm not really sure. Based on this tool it looks like Stanford is the only one that is even approaching parity.


I'm curious—do your students match still well in ortho? I assume they do because I know what school you're talking about, but I'm not too familiar with the ortho landscape.

Looks like even 10 years ago it was ~15% getting cross admits and I believe that has gone way, way down due to the rise of the Early Decision game. That's what decides which one you go to now.

We've had a couple great Ortho matches but generally speaking no, we're very weak in Ortho, in fact with multiple SOAP/failed matches in just the last few years. Our other subspecialty matches are notably stronger.

 

[koalaburrito]

Ok I’m 90% sure I want to go to Harvard at this point. They reevaluated my aid so the COA difference is now $25k/yr.

I just realized that both options are splitting hairs in terms of setting me up for my future life. I don't think either will limit me. But my main arguement against Harvard was cost if I was being honest with myself. And I realized that there will be dozens of branch-points that I can take later in life where the trade-off will be money. However, there is only one branch point in my life of deciding medical school and truthfully I want to go to Harvard more in my heart. Additionally, those future financial tradeoff decisions will likely have bigger financial impacts. Like choosing specialties will result in a difference in millions over my lifetime. Or same with location of practice, academic/private etc. So I decided that if money is a semi-big deal to me down the line I will just make one of those future tradeoffs of maybe specialty/academia/location to pay myself in opportunity cost for my decision to go to Harvard. Again feeling strapped for money might not even be a part of my future, but no amount of future money will allow me to go to Harvard for med school if I end up regretting that.

So in summary I realized that I can remove the financial regrets down the road if I have that regret. $100k difference is still a ton of money. But I can't remove the Harvard what-if. And if HMS allows me to earn like $5k/yr more (which it probably will) then it pays for itself. The only real downside would be if I get in a serious accident with all the debt before I’m an attending but there is nothing that I can do to control that.

What are your thoughts? @efle @longhaul3 @Lawper

 

[Klyx]

I disagree with anyone here who says one choice is clearly better than the other. Harvard's brand reaches farther than Penn's, and you have decide how much $$ you're willing to pay for it. Sounds like the COA difference isn't obscene, and you really want to go to Harvard, so you've made your choice. Congrats on the acceptances, by the way.

 

[efle]

Harvard if you want to match residency an/or fellowship in Boston. Penn if not (e.g. if you want to end up on west coast)

 

[idiotreinventor]

don't be crazy. You can EASILY match back to MGH from Penn. Take the money, please.

 

[longhaul3]

Ok I’m 90% sure I want to go to Harvard at this point. They reevaluated my aid so the COA difference is now $25k/yr.

I just realized that both options are splitting hairs in terms of setting me up for my future life. I don't think either will limit me. But my main arguement against Harvard was cost if I was being honest with myself. And I realized that there will be dozens of branch-points that I can take later in life where the trade-off will be money. However, there is only one branch point in my life of deciding medical school and truthfully I want to go to Harvard more in my heart. Additionally, those future financial tradeoff decisions will likely have bigger financial impacts. Like choosing specialties will result in a difference in millions over my lifetime. Or same with location of practice, academic/private etc. So I decided that if money is a semi-big deal to me down the line I will just make one of those future tradeoffs of maybe specialty/academia/location to pay myself in opportunity cost for my decision to go to Harvard. Again feeling strapped for money might not even be a part of my future, but no amount of future money will allow me to go to Harvard for med school if I end up regretting that.

So in summary I realized that I can remove the financial regrets down the road if I have that regret. $100k difference is still a ton of money. But I can't remove the Harvard what-if. And if HMS allows me to earn like $5k/yr more (which it probably will) then it pays for itself. The only real downside would be if I get in a serious accident with all the debt before I’m an attending but there is nothing that I can do to control that.

What are your thoughts? @efle @longhaul3 @Lawper

You want to go to Harvard, so go for it. Most people never even get to sniff that opportunity. The last thing you want is to be the guy who goes through life saying "btw I could have gone to Harvard." If the money won't be an issue for you, don't be ashamed. But you should know that going to HMS will not really net you $5k more a year. Even if you think that Harvard will get you further in academic medicine than Penn will (doubt that's true), the way to make money in medicine is in private practice, and pedigree doesn't matter much in that setting.

Congrats on the accomplishments.

 

[efle]

To clarify my above statements: the big leg up from HMS is for home-matching into the HMS system. They inbreed like no other. But for anywhere else in the nation, Penn is going to get you interviews just as much as HMS can.

So, do the math on the 100k. We're now looking at spending that money paying down debt early in your career, versus investing it.

100k @ 7% for 20-25 years = $400k-500k

So decide whether attending Harvard is worth delaying retirement a couple years. Unless your dream is to be an academic physician in Boston, probably not worth.

 

[Lucca]

Penn on scholly and it isn't even ****ing close. The only exception might be if you intend to spend your career in Boston at one of the Harvard ivory towers; their home-match rate out of HMS is obscene. But as someone interested in returning to the west coast, a full ride to a place like Penn or WashU beats the need-only aid at HMS/Hopkins every time.

THIS. GO TO PENN YOU MAD MAN.

 

[glee123]

You can't go wrong with either choice - good luck!

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

So in summary I realized that I can remove the financial regrets down the road if I have that regret. $100k difference is still a ton of money. But I can't remove the Harvard what-if. And if HMS allows me to earn like $5k/yr more (which it probably will) then it pays for itself. The only real downside would be if I get in a serious accident with all the debt before I’m an attending but there is nothing that I can do to control that.

You're going to Harvard. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Stop trying to rationalize your irrational decision and get on with it.

I do want to make sure it gets pointed out that the bolded statement above is not true. No hospital is going to pay you $5k more because you went to Harvard instead of Penn. Other than a "huh, neat" no one cares where you went to med school, and they certainly don't care during contract negotiations.

 

[koalaburrito]

You're going to Harvard. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Stop trying to rationalize your irrational decision and get on with it.

I do want to make sure it gets pointed out that the bolded statement above is not true. No hospital is going to pay you $5k more because you went to Harvard instead of Penn. Other than a "huh, neat" no one cares where you went to med school, and they certainly don't care during contract negotiations.

Hahahaha don't get me wrong I don't think any hospital would fork out more for name dropping! Again Penn carries the EXACT same weight in the medical field anyway. That was just a way of saying that over the course of a lifetime any sum of money seems less significant. It's not a for-sure thing and I’m still back and forth. But the bottom line is that I don't really care about my net worth at the end of my life and don't want this to be entirely driven by money. It seems like a lot of people on SDN view that as the only/overwhelming-important consideration.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

It seems like a lot of people on SDN view that as the only/overwhelming-important consideration.

Nah.

Look, this isn't the choice between buying a BMW and being paid to own a Kia. This is the choice between buying a BMW and being paid to own a different-color BMW.

 

[detritus]

Hahahaha don't get me wrong I don't think any hospital would fork out more for name dropping! Again Penn carries the EXACT same weight in the medical field anyway. That was just a way of saying that over the course of a lifetime any sum of money seems less significant. It's not a for-sure thing and I’m still back and forth. But the bottom line is that I don't really care about my net worth at the end of my life and don't want this to be entirely driven by money. It seems like a lot of people on SDN view that as the only/overwhelming-important consideration.

Net worth point is fair. I’d personally go to Penn for reasons already stated above, but no amount of money is going to be worth a lifetime of “what if” for you. If you want that Harvard name then make that decision, even if people on here would disagree. It’s ok if other people have different priorities than you. Different strokes. I will say that it probably will get old telling people you go/ went to Harvard. I know some people at HYPSM that prefer not to mention where they go to school because people treat/ judge them differently apparently. Layman prestige is a double edged sword, but I’m sure you’ve thought about that already. Congrats on the cycle!

 

[birdred23]

The difference in price is minimal at this point. You should go with your gut. I’m sure you’ll look great in Crimson!

 

[koalaburrito]

Ok everyone!! I'm committing to Penn today! Thanks for letting me play devil's advocate! But after cost of living differences were factored in and it became clear that everyone at Penn matches where they want, why pay $200k for a different colored robe!?

 

[koalaburrito]

The plot thickens.... Thoughts?

UCLA (Geffen Scholarship) vs UPenn (21st Century Scholarship)

So UCLA just reached out and offered me a Geffen Scholarship. This community was incredibly helpful last time in making my decision, so I thought I would reach out again. If you would've told me that I had either of these options a year ago I would've taken either of them in a heartbeat. For...

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