Penn Dental vs Stony Brook Dental

[barneystinson02]

Hello everyone,

I committed to Penn Dental a while ago, but recently just received acceptance to Stony Brook. I need to make a decision quickly and need advice. I am a NY resident, interested in specializing, and paying for dental school in loans. Is the Ivy league name worth it when applying for residencies? Is cost of attendance a bigger priority than happiness during dental school (I honestly would prefer to live in Philly and have a bigger class size).

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[deleted678432]

Go to stony. They have great speciality placement for way cheaper

 

[schmoob]

Stony Brook hands down. If you’re worried about happiness, You’ll be MUCH happier with a lower loan balance.

 

[887194]

Unlike what my colleagues posted, I would have to disagree (but they do bring up very valid points). In my eyes, I think Penn is worth every penny and is an all around great school that will push you to excel in every way. School is what you make of it and in my viewpoint, I wouldn't hesitate twice. Then again most people don't take all the opportunities that come their way and they may be better off just going to the cheapest school as many on SDN advise. Both schools will prepare you very well and if you want to specialize, Stony will get the job done for cheaper. It's up to the individual to make the most of it.

 

[schmoob]

Then again most people don't take all the opportunities that come their way and they may be better off just going to the cheapest school as many on SDN advise.

You make a good point, but I would have to strongly disagree with you.

I think this is one of those opportunities you mention: the opportunity to go to a very highly rated public dental school, instate, with high specialization rates at a much much lower price. Paying for the “ivy” pedigree in this scenario will result in a significantly worse ROI.

Debt is very very real, man. With either school you are (figuratively) getting a Lexus. Going with Penn, he gets a Lexus along with the Lexus pricetag. With Stony Brook he gets a Lexus with a Corolla price tag.

Cue the car analogy jabs

 

[887194]

You make a good point, but I would have to strongly disagree with you.

I think this is one of those opportunities you mention: the opportunity to go to a very highly rated public dental school, instate, with high specialization rates at a much much lower price. Paying for the “ivy” pedigree in this scenario will result in a significantly worse ROI.

Debt is very very real, man. With either school you are (figuratively) getting a Lexus. Going with Penn, he gets a Lexus along with the Lexus pricetag. With Stony Brook he gets a Lexus with a Corolla price tag.

Cue the car analogy jabs

You make a very valid point and like I said your advice is the way to go for 95% of applicants who are making this decision. And I do understand the debt, I chose the cheap route for my undergrad to save money as I had to pay for it myself the whole way through. And I do know it will be no piece of cake to pay it off, but I am the type of person who works New Years Eve and Christmas if necessary (and I've done it). However, what I noticed for me is that I wasn't challenged enough going to my college. My comment applies to the 5% of applicants who are really looking for that next step. It's like saying an S 63 is the same as a Rolls Royce. Yes, it has the same features, yes it is super comfortable, yes it is very luxurious, yes you are still a baller, yes the quality is the same (if not better), but it still isn't a Rolls Royce. The Mercedes brand is just not equivalent to the Rolls Royce Brand. One would have to decide if the extra 200k is worth the price tag of a Rolls Royce.

 

[PhansterZ]

Go to Stony, it's a very respectable school, and will save you tons of money.
Predents get enamored with the Ivy League name, but it means very little when applying for jobs, or even residencies.
You don't get paid extra because you went to an Ivy League dental school. You will pay significantly more in debt payments though.
If you think going to a state dental school will not provide you a challenge, you are grossly misinformed.

 

[Ivy.ch]

Absolutely go to Stony Brook! Don't even think twice about it. You will thank yourself every day for the rest of your life that you didn't sell yourself to the extra debt load! Plus, the school has a reputation for solid dental education.

I'd just like to point out to you that Penntist.Alex is UPenn class of 2022 (which means he/she hasn't even started dental school yet). PLEASE, head the advice of your peers currently in dental school (like me and AN4TOMY) or even better, your future colleagues who went through the whole process already (like PhansterZ).

 

[caffeine jitters]

Stony! It’s an incredible program with some really great features. Plus, it’s going to be keep your debt load a lot lower - that’s the most important factor.

Best of luck with your decision, but it seems pretty easy to me.

 

[2TH MVR]

A thread about cars. I'm in. Italian cars > German cars > Japanese cars when it comes to passion and emotion. Japanese cars are appliances. Sorry.
You can specialize from any school. There's no fast tracking it. Some of you are looking for an expensive school that you think will fast track you to a specialty residency. Why not do it the old fashion way. Work hard and get good grades in undergrad. Pick an inexpensive school that has all the specialty residencies. Work hard in DS and plan on being in the top 5 in your class. Do some research with the grad residents. Get chummy with all the grad attendings and director.
Get into specialty residency on your own merits, not the school's reputation.

 

[887194]

Absolutely go to Stony Brook! Don't even think twice about it. You will thank yourself every day for the rest of your life that you didn't sell yourself to the extra debt load! Plus, the school has a reputation for solid dental education.

I'd just like to point out to you that Penntist.Alex is UPenn class of 2022 (which means he/she hasn't even started dental school yet). PLEASE, head the advice of your peers currently in dental school (like me and AN4TOMY) or even better, your future colleagues who went through the whole process already (like PhansterZ).

So that makes me less qualified to form an opinion or construct an argument? The reason people come to forums like is to hear other people's thoughts so they can make a more informed decision. I have spoken to quite a few people in higher academia and the workforce who agree with my viewpoint, just as I have spoken to quite a few who would disagree. And the fact that I know most people here would advise people to go to the cheapest school, I thought the OP could use a different point of view.

 

[arlmay]

I like how the only guy saying PENN has their school crest as his picture. Bias much? Go to stony brook you'll save 100k and have the same credentials.

 

[deleted678432]

Absolutely go to Stony Brook! Don't even think twice about it. You will thank yourself every day for the rest of your life that you didn't sell yourself to the extra debt load! Plus, the school has a reputation for solid dental education.

I'd just like to point out to you that Penntist.Alex is UPenn class of 2022 (which means he/she hasn't even started dental school yet). PLEASE, head the advice of your peers currently in dental school (like me and AN4TOMY) or even better, your future colleagues who went through the whole process already (like PhansterZ).

I'm not in dental school yet, but I think that everybody is entitled to an opinion. Penn is an amazing program, as is Stony Brook. Personally, I would go to Stony, but Penntist.Alex is smart and must've had a good reason to go to Penn, which he is trying to share w/ OP for more perspective.

 

[0rgansm]

Penn is a great school, but it’s not like Harvard or something. Save your money and go to Stony Brook. SB has high match rates too. The only drawback is the ridiculously boring location and no one knowing what Stony Brook is lol but then again most people don’t even know penn is Ivy League.

 

[ModifiedBass]

I just graduated from Penn. Had a great experience/education overall. I chose Penn over my state school, but only because I was HPSP, if not I would have definitely gone to my state school due to the overwhelming price difference. I would go to Stony Brook if you aren't getting any sort of major financial scholarship (HPSP, IHS, NHSC, etc.), they have a great reputation as well.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I’d go to the more expensive of the schools. Like I’ve said elsewhere on SDN, they couldn’t charge more if they really weren’t better, right?! You’ll learn dental secrets that aren’t to be had at state schools.

As a more serious side note, Mr. Average Joe has no idea UPenn is an Ivy League school. When you say you went to UPenn they are hearing you went to Penn State. And then they start thinking about the Joe Paterno scandal. Is that what you want them to associate with you?

Big Hoss

 

[Trevr.k]

If I were given the choice, I would go to cheaper school for obvious reasons. Unfortunately I didn't get into Canadian schools and only left with US private schools. They are frightening expensive, but in my case I have no other options.

UPENN is a great school, if one has to pick among expensive US dental schools (nova, nyu, etc.) and UPENN. It's smart to go with UPENN, if already paying high price tag, mind as well pick the best one. Right?

On another note, it may sound silly to some, but UPENN has a very strong alumni network, I would give it serious considerations. Like another member mentioned, it's a brand, Mercedes vs Rolls. Both equally great, but latter one has small perks which add up to the value of the brand.

At the end of the day, school is just an opportunity, but given we choose dentistry as a lifelong career, price tag somewhat becomes irrelevant at the end of day.

 

[caffeine jitters]

If I were given the choice, I would go to cheaper school for obvious reasons. Unfortunately I didn't get into Canadian schools and only left with US private schools. They are frightening expensive, but in my case I have no other options.

UPENN is a great school, if one has to pick among expensive US dental schools (nova, nyu, etc.) and UPENN. It's smart to go with UPENN, if already paying high price tag, mind as well pick the best one. Right?

On another note, it may sound silly to some, but UPENN has a very strong alumni network, I would give it serious considerations. Like another member mentioned, it's a brand, Mercedes vs Rolls. Both equally great, but latter one has small perks which add up to the value of the brand.

At the end of the day, school is just an opportunity, but given we choose dentistry as a lifelong career, price tag somewhat becomes irrelevant at the end of day.

What?

 

[2TH MVR]

What?

I think he said that he plans on buying the Rolls because of the small perks and that large, debilitating DS debt is irrelevant.

Here's reality for the "majority" of graduating dentists. Two people have the SAME job and work at the SAME company with the SAME salary. One drives a Camry (inexpensive school) with monthly car payments of $300. The other rolls (que the rap music) in his Rolls (UPenn) with monthly car payments of $6000. Maybe the perks of driving the Rolls will make up for the payment difference. Not.

 

[Svart Aske]

The only reason to go to Penn is for the name and location. For most 20-somethings, living in Philly is much better than Long Island, but obviously you will pay for that lifestyle. If you are practical, go to Stony Brook.

Keep in mind that Stony Brook has a much smaller class size. At Penn you have 120+ peers (and more once the international students join your class) to compete with, both academically and for patient cases. I think many will benefit more at Stony Brook from the smaller class sizes and more personal faculty interactions.

I like how somebody (who's not even entering dental school till this summer) exalted the virtues of Penn without listing any real reasons.

- a Penn grad.

 

[Trevr.k]

What?

All I am merely trying to state is that SIGNIFICANTLY cheap schools are a great choice for most applicants. But, when it comes down to situations when a student has no choice of cheap school, then mind as well go to expensive IVY league school, rather than an expensive no name school.
The start of professional careers wont be the same for both type of graduates. But in the long run UPENN dental debt will be paid off.

OP, go to Stony.

 

[schmoob]

The start of professional careers wont be the same for both type of graduates

Yes they will. Exactly the same.

But in the long run UPENN dental debt will be paid off.

And the "no name" school won't be? Which btw, there's no such thing.

UPENN is a great school, if one has to pick among expensive US dental schools (nova, nyu, etc.) and UPENN. It's smart to go with UPENN, if already paying high price tag, mind as well pick the best one. Right?

These statements are complete logical fallacies. You can't quantify any of them.

 

[Harvard Dental Student]

While we're on the topic of cars, I would say Harvard Dental School is the Bugatti Chiron of the car world.

 

[surfline]

While we're on the topic of cars, I would say Harvard Dental School is the Bugatti Chiron of the car world.

I'm relieved this troll account is finally banned.

 

[deleted678432]

I'm relieved this troll account is finally banned.

The end of an era

 

[weaselodeath]

I'm relieved this troll account is finally banned.

It's like being cooled by a gentle breeze on a hot day. If they had just gone full troll and not actually tried to participate in conversations sometimes I think it would have been less irritating.

 

[2TH MVR]

I thought he was just being obnoxious.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

The luxury of Penn is being in school and not feeling like you have to stress out about matching into residencies later on.

Why's that? Magically don't have to worry about the ADAT/CBSE, research, leadership, volunteering/outreach, and LORs?

Big Hoss

 

[2TH MVR]

I know you are fairly old-school and come from the old times, but you really don't need to be top 5 these days to specialize. I've seen plenty of people in top third or even worse matching OMFS and ortho... (yes, even ortho) Other less competitive specialties (perio and endo) are more forgiving of lower class rank obviously. We are living in a high student debt era with advanced technology that favors GPs, which could potentially explain the surge in more of the creme of the crop folks going into general dentistry. I'd say unless you are extremely picky on which program you are willing to attend, top third or better is a safe place for any specialty.

 

[schmoob]

Still a firm believer you could specialize even if you don't go to an Ivy.

It's not a matter of opinion; it's fact.

 

[arlmay]

Why's that? Magically don't have to worry about the ADAT/CBSE, research, leadership, volunteering/outreach, and LORs?

Big Hoss

This was my thought exactly after reading this... I guess you automatically match when going to Penn...didn't know. Sit back and just listen to the free CE about getting into residencies by the first year dental student, you might learn something Hoss.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

It just relieves some of the stress knowing your school has a good reputation for specializing. You're not paying the big bucks for nothing..

What is it about your school’s “reputation” that makes YOU a better applicant? Are you learning a different dentistry at UPenn than that taught at Ohio State, Maryland, or Utah? What opportunities do you have that they don’t? If there are program directors that are “wowed” by the name of your dental school, they are idiots. And if these program directors could please identify themselves on this thread, I would much appreciate it. I don’t want to make the mistake of applying to your peds program in the next few weeks. Thanks!

Big Hoss

#gotothecheapestdentalschoolyougetintobecausestudentloanssuck

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Did I ever say I was a better applicant? No. Am I bashing other schools? No. I'm simplying providing input to the OP's questions, trying to put Penn in a positive light instead of just "its too expensive don't go there". These are multifactorial decisions, and I don't think a big life choice like this should be judged just on cost.

Thanks for taking my statement out of context.

All I’m trying to say is that by and large any dental school will provide you with the education and opportunities you need to get you to where you want to go. It’s just up to you to take advantage of them and put in the work.

As someone who’s also paid back student loans, I can tell you that it sucks. It simply sucks. Have you any experience here? There isn’t really anything a school’s reputation can offer to warrant a significant price difference. If you’re choosing between schools that cost $300,000 and $500,000, the answer is obvious. Especially if you’re gunning for a specialty that may add another $200,000 to $300,000 to your student loans.

Big Hoss

 

[2TH MVR]

I know you are fairly old-school and come from the old times, but you really don't need to be top 5 these days to specialize. I've seen plenty of people in top third or even worse matching OMFS and ortho... (yes, even ortho) Other less competitive specialties (perio and endo) are more forgiving of lower class rank obviously. We are living in a high student debt era with advanced technology that favors GPs, which could potentially explain the surge in more of the creme of the crop folks going into general dentistry. I'd say unless you are extremely picky on which program you are willing to attend, top third or better is a safe place for any specialty.

Lets see. Old school approach. Me the geezer. Scholarship (tuition, room and board for the 1st two years) to attend undergrad. Competitive stats that allowed acceptance to a CHEAP in-state old fashion college football traditional dental school. Worked PT in dental school. High stats, high rank, research, etc. etc. that allowed acceptance to an ORTHO residency that paid a STIPEND. In other words .... they paid me to go to school. End result. Around 100K of student loan debt. Maybe less.

Your way. $500-800K student loan debt. Yes ... you do not have to have perfect stats, rank to get into specialty residency, but as a lesser student .... you will not have options and you will pay ALOT. Good luck.

 

[schmoob]

 

[Trevr.k]

Not everyone is lucky to get admitted to least expensive school. If dentistry is an ultimate goal, and if there is no choice other than attend an expensive school, attend with caution and be fully aware of the debt you'll emerge yourself. Some may argue, there are option to repeat courses, or pick up another degree to boost profile, and apply to cheaper schools. It's a case by case basis, for some it may be unreasonable and waste of time, and it's not a guarantee they'll be admitted to cheaper schools.

On the other hand, the tuition is hefty at UPENN. However, we don't hear much on forums where dentist are extremely disappointed for taking out 500k loans for education to the point they regret their career choice. If one is committed, it will pay off.

There are too many factors in the equation.

 

[caffeine jitters]

Not everyone is lucky to get admitted to least expensive school. If dentistry is an ultimate goal, and if there is no choice other than attend an expensive school, attend with caution and be fully aware of the debt you'll emerge yourself. Some may argue, there are option to repeat courses, or pick up another degree to boost profile, and apply to cheaper schools. It's a case by case basis, for some it may be unreasonable and waste of time, and it's not a guarantee they'll be admitted to cheaper schools.

On the other hand, the tuition is hefty at UPENN. However, we don't hear much on forums where dentist are extremely disappointed for taking out 500k loans for education to the point they regret their career choice. If one is committed, it will pay off.

There are too many factors in the equation.

Okay, but this applicant IS lucky enough to have been accepted to a cheap school. How long do we have to beat this horse?

 

[Trevr.k]

Okay, but this applicant IS lucky enough to have been accepted to a cheap school. How long do we have to beat this horse?

attend Stony Brook dental.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

However, we don't hear much on forums where dentist are extremely disappointed for taking out 500k loans for education to the point they regret their career choice.

But there are plenty of people that have posted on here that regret turning down a more affordable school for what many SDNers consider a “prestigious” school.

Big Hoss

 

[Ivy.ch]

On the other hand, the tuition is hefty at UPENN. However, we don't hear much on forums where dentist are extremely disappointed for taking out 500k loans for education to the point they regret their career choice. If one is committed, it will pay off.

Umm... you need go check out DentalTown. You don't hear that here because dentists don't post here much - get a DentalTown account and see the real picture of the profession.

 

[Trevr.k]

Umm... you need go check out DentalTown. You don't hear that here because dentists don't post here much - get a DentalTown account and see the real picture of the profession.

I always wanted to check that forum out, but it's a closed community and you got to be dentist to participate. It's pretty hard to get an access if you are outsider.

 

[Medin2017]

Go cheap. I was all about picking the most expensive pass fail school back when I was at the start of first year and feeling stressed and as a predent who was intimidated by others, but really being high ranked isn't that hard if you work harder than your peers (and a majority of them don't want to specialize by the way). Secondly, you may start to like procedures done in general dentistry or you may realize you don't want to spend extra years in residency, and having 500k debt as a general dentist doesn't seem like a good idea. My perspective has definitely changed, and I'm not even 100% sure how badly I want to specialize anymore, although my performance in school is strong enough to do whatever I want.

The people doing poorly or outside of the top 1/3 probably don't study much harder than they did as undergraduate students and value free time much more than those that actually wanted to specialize or get A's for the sake of it. It's not that they weren't smart. Put in the work and save 100-200k, you will thank yourself later.

 

[Ivy.ch]

I always wanted to check that forum out, but it's a closed community and you got to be dentist to participate. It's pretty hard to get an access if you are outsider.

They allow dental students and pre-dents. You just have to let them know and fill out your information.

 

[OMFS@2018]

If it’s a difference of >75k go to cheaper.

 

[setdoc7]

Go to Stonybrook. Here are my reasons:
1. Cheaper. That is a huge reason
2. I have admitted both Penn and Stony grads into my residency program. No discernible difference.
3. Stony goes to med school first 2 years for basic science. That gives you a huge leg up on the CBSE if you decide OMFS
4. Stony has a great rep for their classes specializing after graduation. Penn has a good rep, but large class means more intraclass
competition. Also, Penn is well known on the residency PD circuit for grade inflation.
5. Penn has a new dean coming, no one knows how this will work out yet.
IMHO, that should clear up a few things.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Also, Penn is well known on the residency PD circuit for grade inflation.

Ha!

Big Hoss

 

[surfline]

Go to Stonybrook. Here are my reasons:
1. Cheaper. That is a huge reason
2. I have admitted both Penn and Stony grads into my residency program. No discernible difference.
3. Stony goes to med school first 2 years for basic science. That gives you a huge leg up on the CBSE if you decide OMFS
4. Stony has a great rep for their classes specializing after graduation. Penn has a good rep, but large class means more intraclass
competition. Also, Penn is well known on the residency PD circuit for grade inflation.
5. Penn has a new dean coming, no one knows how this will work out yet.
IMHO, that should clear up a few things.

I’m pretty sure Stony just does the first year of med school, but I agree with all your points

 

[Likkriue]

Yes it is only 1 year now, only because the medical school itself has an accelerated first year.

However the amount of effort I put into those medical school courses made me far more confident about preparing for the CBSE. A huge benefit are the NBME exams we are taking that are very representative of board style medical school exams.