penn state vs. rosalind franklin (chicago medical college) help please!!!!

[Ej22]

Hi! I was accepted to Penn State and Rosalind Franklin. I REALLY need help/advice about this. I am super stressed deciding. Penn State is possibly a better school? I think because of its early clinical experience. But the location I have heard is absolutely awful. A student told me your only social contact is basically other medical students and you are kind of out in the middle of no where...so going there single is rough and depressing. Rosalind is near chicago where I have many friends. I think I would be more balanced and happier being near a city where I am not consumed by medicine/medical people 24/7. But is it worth going to a slightly worse school for that reason? I am so scared about limiting my opportunities by going to rosalind franklin. It seems like a pretty solid school so I am unsure why it has such a bad reputation. I am so confused -- I literally have no idea which school to choose. Is penn state really that much better that Rosalind???
If I went to rosalind I would probably live in the city and commute on the train to school (I have heard students do that). I hope to volunteer/research in the hospitals in the city in order to get clinical experience and rosalind since it doesn't have its own hospital. My boyfriend is also in Chicago which is really effecting my decision as well.

PLEASEEE HELP!
Thank you!!!

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[Omppu27]

I think this'll get moved to the school specifics/pre allo, but nonetheless, this thread might be helpful.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...schools-without-hospital-affiliation.1119117/

 

[URMD]

I think both are solid schools. You seem to be basing your decision on location and that is fair, but have you considered tuition, cost of living? financial aid packages? Clinical curriculum? Mandatory vs recorded lectures? PBL? How much the current students like it there? P/F curriculum or not? block style curriculum or integrated?

To answer your question directly, going to a 'slightly worse' school will not limit your opportunities at residency whatsoever. If you are shooting for a top speciality or residency placement, the amount of work you will ahve to put in would be the same at either school regardless. Its not like your comparing perelman to penn state, it will not make a lick of difference.

Imo 'early clinical experience' really doesn't actually do much for you as a student. Its just a catchphrase schools use to lure their students. 3rd and 4th year is where you really get that stuff in.

Go where you feel you will be happy. Its 4 years of your life after all.

Personally if it was me i'd pick franklin. Hard to pass up that support system of friends and family.

 

[kayayteeyeee]

I don't know much about Penn State, but I do know about Rosalind Franklin. They are on probation from the LCME but are very open about it and you can read about it on their website. They believe they will be off probation this summer I think. When I interviewed there, the students said the probation didnt affect their education at all.

Since the school is in North Chicago, the location is not that great for the first 2 years. A lot of students move to the city for 3rd and 4th year because that's where most rotations are located. It may be hard to commute for the first 2 years but the train is awesome and easy to use.

Are you a PA resident? I'm asking because RFUMS is pretty pricey and Penn might be significantly cheaper (If cost is a factor).

 

[Ej22]

Thank you so much! I am not a PA resident. I have not heard from Penn State regarding financial aid packages. Rosalind Franklin gave me 15k for the first year in a merit scholarship. I know that is not a lot, but it is better than nothing. I also am pretty positive I want to go into Psychiatry or Neurology.... I am not going to do something competitive like surgery. Does anyone know where Rosalind students rotate exactly? Which hospitals?
I can't decide .... (. I have no idea if penn state is really that much better of a school

 

[alisepeep]

Go with location, this is 4 years of your 20s...would suck to spend them middle of nowhere.
ANY US MD or DO school will give you the opportunity to become the doctor you want to be if you are willing to work hard enough.

 

[URMD]

From the RF website:
Chicago Medical School students complete the majority of their rotations at our major affiliate hospitals:

• Advocate Christ Medical Center
• Advocate Condell Medical Center
• Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center
• Advocate Lutheran General Hospital
• John H. Stroger, Jr., Hospital of Cook County
• Mount Sinai Hospital
• Captain James A. Lovell Federal Health Care Center

From wiki:

Chicago Medical School is community-based, giving students an opportunity to rotate through many hospitals and hospital systems in the greater Chicago area. These include:

• Advocate Christ Hospital
• Advocate Condell Medical Center
• Advocate Good Shepherd Hospital
• Advocate Illinois Masonic Hospital
• Advocate Lutheran General Children's Hospital
• Advocate Lutheran General Hospital
• Alexian Brothers Medical Center
• Captain James A. Lovell Federal Health Care Center
• Centegra Memorial Medical Center
• Elgin Mental Health Center
• John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County
• Little Company of Mary Hospital
• Mount Sinai Medical Center
• Mercy Hospital and Medical Center
• Presence Saint Joseph Hospital
• Presence St. Mary's Hospital
• Rosalind Franklin Health System
• Saint Anthony Hospital

See also[edit]

 

[Ej22]

Are any of the above academic institutions? Sorry I am not familiar. Someone also told me that since Rosalind students do not rotate at academic institutions but instead community hospitals they are at a disadvantage in terms of LORs, etc... is this true?

 

[URMD]

I think mount sinai is an academic institution, not sure about the others.
I guess is probably would affect LORs since alot of weight is placed on the name writing the LOR for you and if there are none of those heavy hitters in community hospitals it could be kind of hard.
@aProgDirector is it possible to have good LORs from community hospitals?

 

[notbobtrustme]

Are any of the above academic institutions? Sorry I am not familiar. Someone also told me that since Rosalind students do not rotate at academic institutions but instead community hospitals they are at a disadvantage in terms of LORs, etc... is this true?

The Advocate system is an academic institution and very well-regarded. Most of the other places are community with an academic focus.

 

[JPA178]

Since the school is in North Chicago, the location is not that great for the first 2 years. A lot of students move to the city for 3rd and 4th year because that's where most rotations are located. It may be hard to commute for the first 2 years but the train is awesome and easy to use.

Do keep this in mind when choosing schools, OP. RFU/CMS is next to Naval Station Great Lakes, which is basically in Waukegan, IL. The majority of your first 2 years will most certainly not be spent in Chicago. The Metra train is easy to use and convenient, but it does take a good hour-and-fifteen to travel between the city and North Chicago/Great Lakes. Do you really want to do that every morning? I understand having a boyfriend in Chicago could potentially be a big factor, but it just doesn't seem feasible to live in the city and spend 3 hours of every day commuting (give or take). And what do you do if there is a train delay due to weather before an exam? It does happen.

For comparison, it would take you about the same amount of travel time +/- 20 minutes to get from Hershey PA to Philly or Baltimore by car, which is great if you happen to have friends there. And you will definitely need to have a car in both places. Penn State is obvious, but I think it would be very tough to get by without one during your first 2 years at RFU/CMS. There may be public transportation in the North Chicago area apart from the Metra, but it's certainly not the CTA.

Penn State has a great, affiliated hospital on-site, whereas RFU/CMS has you completing your clinical training at a number of scattered locations. The Advocate system is indeed excellent, but you'll be doing a lot of driving in Chicago traffic during years 3 and 4 at RFU/CMS. Penn State, from what I've heard, is very innovative in their curriculum and teaching methods, and is one of the only med schools in the country actively incorporating advanced EMR/health IT training into their medical curriculum (a big positive in my book).

All things considered, if it were me, I'd go with Penn State. It does seem to be a very tough decision, though, especially considering your ties to the Chicago area.

 

[Blue Blood]

Being that far away from family would be a deal breaker for me. But then again I'm on Hershey's waitlist so there's that..

 

[qwerty89]

Rosalind Franklin is a unique allopathic school in that it DOES NOT have a main teaching hospital. This means that you will not have a "home" dermatology, urology, ortho, ophtho, etc department. This is EXTREMELY important for competitive fields. Having a home department provides you with a place to get exposure to the field, get research projects started (over all 4 years if you want), a place to do your first rotation in the field before doing aways etc. I met a candidate on the interview trail that said the school did not have a home radiology department. While Radiology is less competitive and doesnt require rotations/aways to be successful this would be a MASSIVE disadvantage when applying to those specialties mentioned above.

Most of the crap premeds think is important when selecting a school like curriculum, P/F, etc are not important. This IS.

 

[Omppu27]

Since the importance of having a support system near by, etc. varies by person, that aside, I would choose PSU in a heartbeat, not even close, for reasons that have already been mentioned above.

Edit: FWIW, I interviewed at RFU.

 

[metalgirl14]

I am an MS4 at Penn State, so if you have any specific questions, let me know. I'm originally from the Chicago area too, but I feel like I got a pretty good education at Penn State.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Penn State. CMS students are orphans with no home departments. It means a lot of catch up and scrambling to get subIs, LoRs from chairs/PDS, research, etc.

It's a fine school, but North Chicago (not north Chicago) sucks and isn't appreciably better than Hershey.

 

[sazerac]

Go with location, this is 4 years of your 20s...would suck to spend them middle of nowhere.
ANY US MD or DO school will give you the opportunity to become the doctor you want to be if you are willing to work hard enough.

Arent they both in the middle of nowhere? The first rule of Chicago Medical School is that it isn't in Chicago. It's actually closer to Wisconsin.

 

[Omppu27]

Arent they both in the middle of nowhere? The first rule of Chicago Medical School is that it isn't in Chicago. It's actually closer to Wisconsin.

When I was interviewing there I got Wisconsin/Milwaukee radio in my car hahaha

 

[Ismet]

Penn State. Hershey really isn't that bad and it's a few miles from Harrisburg. While Harrisburg is obviously no Chicago, Hershey is really not "middle of nowhere." There's a ton of stuff to do within a close distance. Other parts of Central PA are much more isolated and middle of nowhere.

Also most med students everywhere primarily interact with other med students. I go to school in a city and other than my friends from undergrad, I hang out with my med school friends. That's going to be the case wherever you go. You can of course go out and find other people, but you can do that just as well in Hershey/Harrisburg as you can in North Chicago/Chicago.

Also the town frickin smells like chocolate. I would have a season pass to Hershey Park in a heartbeat. You're also just over an hour drive from Baltimore, a couple hours from Philly, and a train ride from NYC.

FWIW I was torn between Pitt and Penn State for med school. Same price, obvious difference in location as well as "ranking" (Penn State isn't ranked I believe, but they're considered relatively on par with Temple/Jefferson) but I really liked PSU's curriculum and I would have been closer to home. But after second look, I felt like I fit in completely at Pitt and didn't get that same feeling at PSU. Are you able to go to both second looks? You have over a month to make this decision...

 

[TxC]

I'm in a similar situation trying to choose between Penn State and Drexel.

Rankings/reputations should not play a significant role in making your decision. Work hard wherever you go and your opportunities after graduation will be very similar. I feel like the city life is really fun but at the same time I can see it being a distraction at times.

 

[marty mcfly]

CMS student here. First 2 years in North Chicago is great for studying. Hate to say it but that should be your priority. 3rd and 4th year are in Chicago. Traffic is rough getting to all the different sites, but manageable and living in the city is well worth it.

And just fyi, regarding no home dept thing...I just matched into a very comp specialty. Having a home dept allows you to get things done more conveniently, however, the opportunities in Chicago are wonderful. 7 med schools. In fact, by not having a home dept, I was forced to expand my network to other institutions which diversified my cv and introduced me to a broad range of people in my field. Getting sub-I away electives is not a problem obtaining and is actually quite fun being able to go to new hospitals. I rotated at about 10 hospitals in last year and a half. Definitely a unique school. PM with questions.

 

[Ismet]

I'm in a similar situation trying to choose between Penn State and Drexel.

Rankings/reputations should not play a significant role in making your decision. Work hard wherever you go and your opportunities after graduation will be very similar. I feel like the city life is really fun but at the same time I can see it being a distraction at times.

I'd go for Penn State in that choice. I also had an acceptance to Temple, and Philly (ick) combined with the 5 (?) med schools in the same catchment area wasn't appealing. Hershey covers all of central PA.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Just add me to the near consensus that PSU is the best choice here for the same reasons given above.

 

[BrainBuff]

I'm in a similar situation trying to choose between Penn State and Drexel.

Rankings/reputations should not play a significant role in making your decision. Work hard wherever you go and your opportunities after graduation will be very similar. I feel like the city life is really fun but at the same time I can see it being a distraction at times.

After being around here for 7 years, i can tell you that this is a big pre-allo myth. Schools reputations (won't get into rankings) DO matter. All you have to do is look at the match lists, and if you do not see the trend you must be blind. Someone will always likes to point out the one foreign medical graduate who lands a residency at MGH and will tell you that if you work your ass off, you can get there also. It does not really work like that. Your school connections matter and where your residents end up will matter. Your school is going to make your residency and fellowship access easier. I am living it.

Chicago Med has always had a poor reputation (since the 1980s!) because of problems with clinical training, teachers, resources, etc. And since then, it has been placed on probation by the LCME TWICE in 10 years. That should tell you something. Take everything into consideration since you are so lucky to have a choice.

 

[BurghStudent]

You don't really spend all 4 years at your medical school. Go to Penn State.

If nothing else, consider the difference in cost of attendance. But otherwise, Nittany Lions all the way.

 

[BrainBuff]

And also, someone should let Hopkins, Penn, UCSF, Stanford and the like know that "rankings don't matter". It is amusing to see that all the top schools brag year after year how high they were ranked, with the exception of Harvard....And Harvard does not really care because ....well, they are just Harvard.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I go to CMS, and I'll say, go to the school where you think you'll succeed best. In the end, reputation matters, but if you don't have everything else lined up, it won't carry you. It may make things easier, but if you'll be miserable for 2-4 years, then it's not worth it. Also, money. Don't discount the COA and tuition. CMS is fairly expensive, especially when you have to live downtown in M3/M4. Not uncommon to see students with 250k+ debt. If the tuition at Penn State is less, I'd advise you to go there.

You have to know what your goals/interests are. If you want to do something quite competitive, having a home department and program makes the process so much easier. Like the other poster said, we didn't have his department so he had to network and go outside the school. That works for some people, but it's quite stressful setting up these connections in the first place. The path of least resistance is also the path of less stress.

 

[Croaker]

Penn Sate has a beautiful campus, but it's altogether much more rural than Chicago. But plenty of nice things like Troegs brewery, etc. It's really two different worlds.

 

[Ej22]

I am pretty positive I want to do psychiatry... I just saw Penn State's match list for 2015...not sure I can give that up.. most of their graduates who match into psychiatry go to harvard, upenn, upitt... this theme holds through for the past few match lists as well. I was also just told my the residency directory of northwestern that you guys are correct and name/reputation of the school does matter a lot..

 

[Ej22]

Thanks everyone..this has been so helpful!

 

[Ismet]

Moving to school-specific discussions forum

 

[ridethecliche]

PSU, no doubt.