Penn State

[Scalpellum]

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Why do you think that Penn State does not release their MCAT/GPA for an average marticulant, NIH grants, etc to USNEWS so they can be "ranked?" I think Penn State would rank fairly well against other schools (atleast top 50 or so) because the average MCAT/GPA for a marticulant is around 29/3.65 and they also receive about $44 mil in NIH grants. Any comments are appreciated.

 

[mshheaddoc]

We Are



Penn State!

Good point, but why would they not release. That is a good question for the administration.

 

[jbrice1639]

they're obviously already attracting good students and getting plenty of NIH money, so they probably figure there's no need to have a magazine tell them they're doing well...they already are.

 

[ashabee4]

Someone asked the Dean of Admissions this question at the 2nd look day. His response was that he believed schools are ranked in a way that does not represent the quality of education offered at the school. He said that his students are prime examples of the quality of education, not US news rankings. This has to do with how students are chosen for acceptance, which is not primarily based on their numbers and rankings, but is based on their compassion for humanity, ability to relate to others, etc. I really like his point of view, although for some reason I wouldn't mind knowing how Penn State compares with other schools in certain areas...

 

[LT2]

ashabee pretty much nailed it. dr. davis explained he didn't want a bunch of business men who didn't know much about medicine to rank his school on what they thought to be the determining factors for "great" schools etc.

 

[wistarrat]

After Dean Davis explained the US News spiel, I asked (students) some more questions. The US News also asks the schools to submit how many applications they received in order to develop a numeric to represent how competitive the school is. Only this is all over the place, and alone, could sway the rankings. For example, Dean Davis of PSUCOM said that there were 8000 applicants, and of those, 400 were offered seats. Based on the school, this could mean 8000 people wrote PSUCOM down on their AMCAS, or, if PSUCOM prescreened, they only sent out 8000 secondaries, or 8000 submitted their secondaries. To be more accurate, US News should be more specific and ask something like "how many students completed their application packet?" I think we'd then see a different set of rankings. I don't have my US news here, so I might just strike this from sdn when I get home! ha!

 

[FDoRoML]

I should also add something. Yeah, I was there at 2nd look and was pretty happy with the way he answered her question about US News rankings. He made some good points, not just about how it's a biased calculation.

Coming from a top school (where I've been doing research for 8 years), I can say it's a ridiculous celebration when the hospital gets ranked #1 again and again. There is less hooplah when the med school is ranked (although I guess we came in #2 this year??-- not really paying attention), and I think I can say why. So, yeah, it's nice ot have some frame of reference to compare schools, and on the surface the US News stuff seems like a good idea. Problem comes in when you consider all the factors they rank, so you need to take it with a grain of salt. If you must look at US News, look at raw data (actual NIH $$, average MCAT, etc). This can help you figure out where their priorities are, but it's not really any better than using the MSAR to determine if your scores/grades are good enough and interview day (or website browsing) to figure out what they emphasize in the training and the facilities.

So, yeah, Harvard and Hopkins are big time into research (despite their saying "you don't have to"-- most people DO research and many here apply for competetive residencies that really require research to make the cut). And if you want training in the unusual, they are good places to go. One faculty member here said it best-- he thinks they don't emphasize enough of the normal day-to-day things you will see as a doc, as they spend a lot of time on Zebras. He was the same guy who gushed about PSU's curriculum.

PSU has a reputation for excellent clinical training, and nobody has a bad word about pre-clinical years. If you're worried about it being a "good enough" school if you're going for a tough residency (like I am), just look at their match list. It is really telling of who they attract and how good they are. It's a very diverse list, but even IM/FP residency spots are often at really good places... plus they match in some of the toughest specialties, too. So it's obvious that getting an MD from PSU will close no doors for you. It's really up to YOU to get good grades, good boards, good experiences. I think one of the best things about them is that they encourage everyone to make their own path (they're very open to your away rotations, you can start any kind of student organization under the sun, etc).

Dean Davis really hit it on the nose-- you need to visit PSU, talk to students, do your research on the programs there, etc-- then decide how it fits YOUR goals. But above all else, know that it is a good school with a good reputation for producing very well-trained physicians... you make your own future.

Me, personally, I like the lifestyle up there. I like that it's low cost of living and not a super-hectic lifestyle. More ability to concentrate on school, and enjoy some down-time with my husband. Yeah, there is also plenty to do within the range of a day-trip, too. Quality of life is so very important, so keep that in mind when choosing (or eliminating) a school. And that means quality based on what you, the individual, want.

PS: Class hours, although they had been a little cryptic about them, are not so bad. Looks like most days don't start too horribly early and most days end by 3 or 4 PM... some earlier. This includes PPS. So, no, not as good as some schools where you're out by noon... but MUCH better than your 8-5 schools. Plenty of time in the 1st year to ease into med school and still have a life. 🙂

 

[C.P. Jones]

has anyone heard anything back from the hold list recently? i really like penn state

 

[DrKitty]

has anyone heard anything back from the hold list recently? i really like penn state

I am still on hold 🙁 Above posts make me feel like we, the ones of hold, were not humanistic enough to be accepted

 

[Apparition]

Still on hold since November too 🙁

 

[FDoRoML]

Have faith, those on hold! It is, after a certain point, a random process. Have you guys written letters of intent and updated your apps with recent accomplishments? PSU is the kind of place where they'd appreciate a show of enthusiasm.

Tho, not so good news-- they accepted 400 people! Eh???? Yeah, at 2nd look when they said this I thought it was a mistake. Apprently not, so just realize that you're not only waiting for people to withdraw acceptances for a slot to open... you're waiting for people to withdraw who they'd never be able to handle REALLY letting in! Seems crazy, but there's always a lot of movement, and I have to think they know what they're doing. 🙄

Anyway, you all just sit tight (and tell them how much you love PSU)... I think, come May 15-June 1, a lot will make it in.

FD

 

[C.P. Jones]

i wrote a letter of interest a while back (december or january), and had a new LoR sent in early January. I'm thinking about writing a new interest letter very soon, but i don't really know what i'm supposed to say that's different than my first letter since I have done nothing different since then. i'm not too sure if i want to do the intent letter though since i still have a chance at my state school, which would save me A LOT of money.

400 ppl accepted, is this a lot? I always assumed about twice the usual class number is accepted, so I think 400 seems a bit high....I hope a lot of these ppl got multiple acceptances! drkitty and apparition!

 

[Orthodoc40]

ashabee pretty much nailed it. dr. davis explained he didn't want a bunch of business men who didn't know much about medicine to rank his school on what they thought to be the determining factors for "great" schools etc.

Wow they just went way up in my own personal rankings based on that philosophy.

The people here who've said they are 'on hold' - were you interviewed or pre-interview? Maybe that's a silly question but I think I am also "on hold" if you meant pre-interview. Which at this point I figured means no interview, especially if they've already accepted 400 people?!!

 

[Apparition]

Have faith, those on hold! It is, after a certain point, a random process. Have you guys written letters of intent and updated your apps with recent accomplishments? PSU is the kind of place where they'd appreciate a show of enthusiasm.

Tho, not so good news-- they accepted 400 people! Eh???? Yeah, at 2nd look when they said this I thought it was a mistake. Apprently not, so just realize that you're not only waiting for people to withdraw acceptances for a slot to open... you're waiting for people to withdraw who they'd never be able to handle REALLY letting in! Seems crazy, but there's always a lot of movement, and I have to think they know what they're doing. 🙄

Anyway, you all just sit tight (and tell them how much you love PSU)... I think, come May 15-June 1, a lot will make it in.

FD

I have written them a strong letter of interest. I don't have any recent accomplishments. I work full-time in a non-medical industry. I have recently changed jobs to a managerial position at another company. Do you you think it would be worth updating them on this if the job is in technology/business?
I'm also concerned about being too annoying since in their hold list letter they specify that they don't want to receive any additional material from applicants.

 

[C.P. Jones]

Wow they just went way up in my own personal rankings based on that philosophy.

The people here who've said they are 'on hold' - were you interviewed or pre-interview? Maybe that's a silly question but I think I am also "on hold" if you meant pre-interview. Which at this point I figured means no interview, especially if they've already accepted 400 people?!!

i believe we're all post-interview, so we're on their "waiting list".

apparition, the change in job may be a good reason to send them another letter of interest, especially in april it may be great timing. I was also thinking about the letter where they say not to send additional materials, but i've also heard others say that they like updates.

nas, i believe it took me about the time that they said it would take to hear back 4-8 weeks? 6-8? either way, i think mine came at about 6-8. (this was also back in the fall, when i imagine they would be at the peak of interviews, and it could have taken more time to review....but that's just me guessing)

 

[FDoRoML]

I have written them a strong letter of interest. I don't have any recent accomplishments. I work full-time in a non-medical industry. I have recently changed jobs to a managerial position at another company. Do you you think it would be worth updating them on this if the job is in technology/business?
I'm also concerned about being too annoying since in their hold list letter they specify that they don't want to receive any additional material from applicants.

Well, there are always things going on in your life. It's tough to say exactly what you could talk about since I dunno what your prior letter and app said, and what you do now. Think about how to spin things... if you've done ANY volunteer work, community service, ANYTHING, you will want to mention it. If your new job involves things that might appeal to their humanities side, talk about it-- e.g. your new job has you dealing with a diverse group of people, mutliple cultures, you are learning new managerial skills, your duties require a lot of autonomy and time management skills (key to success in med school!), uuuummmmm... anyting like that. If you are currently taking any classes (credit or noncredit), mention those. If you are learning a new hobby (art, language, sports), mention that. They want to know about you as a person and that includes more than your grades and numbers and motivation for med school. They really emphasize that they like "real people."

Wow, about the statement that they want no further material. From what I understand, except for Temple's "don't call us, don't write us, don't email us, we ain't answering your stinkin' questions" routine, most schools are open to LOIs. It's a show of initiative and interest in their particular school... make sure it reads like it is meant ONLY for them (nothing generic, always mention why you think PSU is a good fit for you and why you feel like you are a good fit for them). I don't think it will bother them beyond belief and make them toss you in the reject pile, and I think it may even give a warm fuzzy feeling (or no feeling at all)... so what could it hurt? Anyone else hear specifically from PSU about this? I mentioned a few things like this to my advisor and she indicated that all schools would look kindly on LOIs that were good.

 

[FDoRoML]

I interviewed a few weeks back, and wrote thank you letters to my interviewers, and an LOI a couple days after. I do not know how you determine the strength of an LOI. Is there anything I can do at this stage to boost my chance of acceptance? They are my #1 choice.

Your LOI needs to highlight important points:
1. Update any info not included in your applications (grades, ECs, volunteerism, jobs, self-enlightenment...)
2. Explain what about the school you like... do NOT say "I like your curriculum" and leave it at that. Explain something the school does or has and how that fits with your plans or philosophy. The more specific you make it, the better.
3. Summarize why you think the school fits you as well as how you fit it... explain not just what they can do for you but what you can do for them (if you want to start a certain student group, if you want to work in their Lioncare clinic to help their community, etc)

Don't be ridiculously verbose, but be positive and pointed (not unlike how you should write the AMCAS PS). Don't concentrate too many words on a grade or score... expand on what you took out of the experience or class. Does that make sense?

Does PSU have a lot of waitlist movement?

I'm not so sure about this. I don't expect it to be as much as a school like VCU, which has a enormous amount of waitlist movement (partly b/c they accept only the exact number of postitions they have at any given time). You might ask someone in admissions... or maybe a current student who might have picked up that tidbit along the way.

How long did it take most of you to hear back from PSU post-interview?

They told me about 8 weeks (interviewed end of Nov)... took 8 weeks and 1 day for the letter to arrive.

 

[fingersxed]

Almost about 4 weeks for me, post-interview. The wait is killing me, but we'll see if my LOI has helped.

Tell me about it.....I'm 6 weeks post-interview and the anticipation is driving me nuts.

 

[DrKitty]

After I received my post-interview hold letter, I called PSU admissions office in the hopes of obtaining more information about "hold" status as well as any supplements to my application that they welcomed. The staff was so rude to me on the phone and essentially did not answer any of my questions, in fact the woman on the phone ignored my questions and made it so awkward I had to hang up. Their rudeness and vagueness really discouraged me from writing LOI, although I loved PSU when I interviewed. Their hold letter implies that no additional information could help at this point, except for updated transcripts. Since I am no longer in school, I could not sent them that, so I sent a new LOR from my research PI. I doubt it helped, since my hold status hasbn't changed obviously. It is disappointing that PSU has such rude admissions staff OVER THE PHONE (not in person).

 

[strawberryfield]

Just found out today that I am on the "hold list", interviewed 3/13, letter dated 4/12. Anyone know for sure if Penn State welcomes LOIs? if not I will probably call them and ask. The first paragraph of the letter says that any decision would be based on info presently in your file, (underlined in the letter too) so I don't know if that means "we welcome info" or they discourage it! lol 🙄

But seriously, this whole "hold" thing is confusing, because it makes it sound like if you are not properly "accepted" by 5/15 then you remain in the "hold list" which to me sounds a heck of a lot like a wait list, although people were saying being on hold was not the same as being waitlisted. So can you be rejected after being on hold? 😕

400 people? that seems like a lot, but that must also include those accepted off the "hold list" lol

Glad not to be rejected, but not as glad as I would have been to be accepted... oh sweet melancholy! 😳

 

[coffeebythelake]

Just found out today that I am "on hold", interviewed 3/13, letter dated 4/12. Anyone know for sure if Penn State welcomes LOIs? if not I will probably call them and ask. The first paragraph of the letter says that any decision would be based on info presently in your file, (underlined in the letter too) so I don't know if that means "we welcome info" or they discourage it! lol 🙄

But seriously, this whole "hold" thing is confusing, because it makes it sound like if you are not properly "accepted" by 5/15 then you remain in the "hold list" which to me sounds a heck of a lot like a wait list, although people were saying being on hold was not the same as being waitlisted. So can you be rejected after being on hold? 😕

Also, how do you know they accepted 400 people? Are you on the adcom?-- just curious cause I didn't think that info was made known to many!

Glad not to be rejected, but not as glad as I would have been to be accepted... oh sweet melancholy! 😳

I interviewed around that time, does this mean I should receive a letter soon?

 

[strawberryfield]

I interviewed around that time, does this mean I should receive a letter soon?

who knows? when I interviewed they said it would take 6 wks or longer, and it has only been 4 wks! I wonder because I know their last interviews were in the 3rd week of march, so they should have all of the completed apps by now and be wrapping up the reviewing process. My letter was dated 4/12, but I live in AZ and did not receive it until today 4/18. I wonder if the "hold list" is ranked... so many questions... so much waiting!

 

[strawberryfield]

anybody heard anything about the "hold list" yet???

😕 😉 🙂 😀

 

[Apparition]

Nothing here.

 

[DrKitty]

I am still on post-interview "hold", since 01/17. Feels pretty hopeless. Please post if you got off of it after May 15th.

 

[swim2006]

I am still on post-interview "hold", since 01/17. Feels pretty hopeless. Please post if you got off of it after May 15th.

I second that.

 

[Apparition]

I heard on a few instances that 1/4 of Penn State's class comes off waitlist, which would make it roughly 35 people. Probably around 70 people would have to be offered acceptances off the waitlist for 35 people to accept.

I believe they interview around 900 people, accept about 400 straight, reject about 150 (pulling this number out of...), which leaves 350 on the waitlist, which means that 20% get accepted off hold.

Totally speculating of course...

 

[strawberryfield]

I heard on a few instances that 1/4 of Penn State's class comes off waitlist, which would make it roughly 35 people. Probably around 70 people would have to be offered acceptances off the waitlist for 35 people to accept.

I believe they interview around 900 people, accept about 400 straight, reject about 150 (pulling this number out of...), which leaves 350 on the waitlist, which means that 20% get accepted off hold.

Totally speculating of course...

hmmmmm but I have to wonder if some people are put on hold before they are/were offered acceptances??

 

[missmell12]

I actually called today and found out that the "hold" list is NOT ranked. So basically, I got no useful info.

 

[Apparition]

hmmmmm but I have to wonder if some people are put on hold before they are/were offered acceptances??

A SDNer who interviewed sometime in February or March was told at the interview that about 400 acceptances were already sent out. They were most likely straight offers since I very few people get off the hold list before May 15.

 

[DrKitty]

If the hold list is not ranked, how the hell do they determine who gets pulled off of it next?

 

[strawberryfield]

If the hold list is not ranked, how the hell do they determine who gets pulled off of it next?

Who knows??? 😕 ... I guess that is why I sent a LOI... don't know if that will help at all... The "hold list" letter made it sound like they keep reviewing apps to decide when spots become available, or at least that is how I read it. 😕

 

[C.P. Jones]

i'd have to think that they have some sort of idea where someone stands in the hold list, like some very vague idea, but that they will still review the apps around that area anyway. just my thinking

 

[Apparition]

Who knows??? 😕 ... I guess that is why I sent a LOI... don't know if that will help at all... The "hold list" letter made it sound like they keep reviewing apps to decide when spots become available, or at least that is how I read it. 😕

Somehow I doubt that they look through all the files constantly. They probably have some tiers -- when they are done with one, they go to the next. Perhaps there isn't a priority number for each applicant but I'm sure that their waiting list is at least divided into sections.

 

[strawberryfield]

Somehow I doubt that they look through all the files constantly. They probably have some tiers -- when they are done with one, they go to the next. Perhaps there isn't a priority number for each applicant but I'm sure that their waiting list is at least divided into sections.

that's probably true if the waitlist is as large as you are speculating. Sucks being in the dark though!!! 😡

Anyways, I will probably stay on their WL until the end if it goes that long. I have family I could stay with in Hershey if need be (i.e. I finally get called, but it is last minute), well, I could only hope! darn it! 😡

 

[waitman192]

Just so you guys know -- I emailed PSU today asking them to take me off of the waitlist. I know I am not giving up an acceptance, but it is one less person you are competing against to get in off of the waitlist!! So maybe there's some hope in that???

Good luck to you guys, I hope you guys hear good news soon!!

-waitman

 

[strawberryfield]

Just so you guys know -- I emailed PSU today asking them to take me off of the waitlist. I know I am not giving up an acceptance, but it is one less person you are competing against to get in off of the waitlist!! So maybe there's some hope in that???

Good luck to you guys, I hope you guys hear good news soon!!

-waitman

thanks! that's nice of you to let us know! best of luck to you wherever you are going!

 

[macamarna]

thanks! that's nice of you to let us know! best of luck to you wherever you are going!

as a person who got off the waitlist last year... a chunk of us (~15 or so) got off the waitlist on june 15th. we got emails letting us know that the waitlist will move after may 15th of last year, and they will keep us posted... that email came a good 3 weeks prior to getting off the list. my guess, if u got this email, then... hopefully you'll get a call soon. i was in cali, and they literally woke me up at 7am. those on the east coast were called at around 9-10 am... after i got the call, i went on sdn to see if others got off the list too, and it seems like we were called all around the same time, on the same day! so, dont be fretting... seems like they start really moving in june. and if u dont get called that first day that ppl start posting their acceptances, ppl literally got off the waitlist all the way upto the weekend b4 school started. good luck guys... and one more thing... i wrote two letters of interest, and sent an extra letter of rec after i got my waitlist letter. so those arent a bad idea! good luck guys!!!!!!!!! 🙂

 

[C.P. Jones]

thanks waitman, and good luck next year!

mac, thx for the uplifting story.
has anyone received this email this year? i have not.

 

[missmell12]

Is it ok to e-mail a LOI to Med Admissions? Or should you send it via snail mail?? Anyone?

 

[strawberryfield]

thanks waitman, and good luck next year!

mac, thx for the uplifting story.
has anyone received this email this year? i have not.

No email as of yet... I have only sent 1 LOI... I got my WL letter 4/17. Maybe I will send another LOI and get another LOR from one of the docs I work for!?!?

But I don't know what else to say in a second LOI other than "pleeeease let me in 'cause PSU=#1" when I already said that in my 1st LOI (and no, not in those words!) Any suggestions? If anyone is willing to read my first LOI and give me some ideas on a 2nd, PM me! (hope I don't sound too desperate, although, I am!) LOL

 

[strawberryfield]

Is it ok to e-mail a LOI to Med Admissions? Or should you send it via snail mail?? Anyone?

I sent mine via snail mail and emailed them about a week later to confirm they got it. Of course, it took them over a week after that to get back to me that they did receive it. 😉

 

[missmell12]

I sent mine via snail mail and emailed them about a week later to confirm they got it. Of course, it took them over a week after that to get back to me that they did receive it. 😉

I sent one over e-mail and they did reply to confirm that they received it...I just wasn't sure if that was the best way to go. I have been waitlisted since 1/11.....so I've all but given up on them!

 

[strawberryfield]

Hey guys! How is everyone???

I found an old thread about the waitlist from last year, and it looks like 5 SDNers (at least) got off of it on or after 6/15... just giving us all some hope and

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=187912&referrerid=73249

 

[MDMAMA]

In past years students have been admitted throughout the summer and up to the beginning of August. If you would take a spot if offered, send a letter letting the admissions people know that you will come. Then sit tight. A number of accepted students will come off the waitlists at other school and open spaces. Good luck and try to stay calm.

 

[C.P. Jones]

In past years students have been admitted throughout the summer and up to the beginning of August. If you would take a spot if offered, send a letter letting the admissions people know that you will come. Then sit tight. A number of accepted students will come off the waitlists at other school and open spaces. Good luck and try to stay calm.

i think they should accept me before i fork up the thousands of dollars for the secondaries 😎

 

[strawberryfield]

i think they should accept me before i fork up the thousands of dollars for the secondaries 😎

are you going to send in your secondaries as you get them or wait a little while? Some schools won't send secondaries until august, others will send them as soon as you submit amcas

 

[C.P. Jones]

are you going to send in your secondaries as you get them or wait a little while? Some schools won't send secondaries until august, others will send them as soon as you submit amcas

i'm going to do them right away. last year i had all my secondaries (eight of them, not many) done by early august. i think this is the difference b/w my first year applying where i only got an interview (august mcat) at my state school and last year getting 5 interviews. this time i plan to apply to more schools, and hope i get the same kind of luck (i don't know if it will be more difficult to complete more secondaries as quickly though). anyway, i will focus on this upcoming cycle and try not to bank on the waitlists (although i will be deep inside 🙂 )

what are your plans for next year?
edit: just realized you have 2 acceptances...congrats 😀 👍 are you thinking you would rather go to penn state, or one of those schools?

 

[strawberryfield]

i'm going to do them right away. last year i had all my secondaries (eight of them, not many) done by early august. i think this is the difference b/w my first year applying where i only got an interview (august mcat) at my state school and last year getting 5 interviews. this time i plan to apply to more schools, and hope i get the same kind of luck (i don't know if it will be more difficult to complete more secondaries as quickly though). anyway, i will focus on this upcoming cycle and try not to bank on the waitlists (although i will be deep inside 🙂 )

what are your plans for next year?
edit: just realized you have 2 acceptances...congrats 😀 👍 are you thinking you would rather go to penn state, or one of those schools?

thanks! 😳
Penn State 😍 is definitely #1, but I'd go to one of my lower choice acceptances rather than wait a year, as this is already my 2nd year applying and I have a had a year off since graduating in May 2005. I plan on sticking with the WL until the very end. In fact, that reminds me! I need to go home and draft a 2nd LOI tonight!

hopefully we will both get in off the WL and you can throw your 2ndaries in the trash, or flush 'em, or burn 'em... or, well, you get the idea! I'm sure they would make nice confetti to celebrate your acceptance off of a waitlist!

Are you WL'd at other schools or just PSU?

 

[C.P. Jones]

thanks! 😳
Penn State 😍 is definitely #1, but I'd go to one of my lower choice acceptances rather than wait a year, as this is already my 2nd year applying and I have a had a year off since graduating in May 2005. I plan on sticking with the WL until the very end. In fact, that reminds me! I need to go home and draft a 2nd LOI tonight!

hopefully we will both get in off the WL and you can throw your 2ndaries in the trash, or flush 'em, or burn 'em... or, well, you get the idea! I'm sure they would make nice confetti to celebrate your acceptance off of a waitlist!

Are you WL'd at other schools or just PSU?

i'm assuming by LOI you're doing letters of intent. i've done letters of interest to my schools, i'm a bit afraid to do intent letters, but i should consider it. I'm considering just sending a short email for my next one, since my other two that i have done were both snail mail letters, and were a bit long.

you seem to be in the same exact situation as me! 2nd app cycle and graduated in may '05 🙄 i'm going to go with burning secondaries, a nice early summer camp fire sounds great!

i'm WL'd at eastern virginia (middle third, i think a good shot, but so expensive!), drexel (they also don't give out info), and uconn (bottom third, again 😡 ).

yea, i definitely hope we get what sounds like a call from penn state!