Penn v. UW v. Stanford

[durfen]

Yet another Penn v. something thread. (EDIT: received Stanford acceptance), so thread title changed .

Anyway, rankings-wise they're pretty on-par with each other I think, with UW's clinical program standing out and Penn's research program standing out. UW has the better location for me, but Penn is fine as well. The culture and and people at both schools is relaxed and helpful, something that is important to me but it doesn't help with a decision in this case. Btw, both are mstp acceptances, but I want opinions on the med school since I can evaluate the research part on my own.....

EDIT: So Stanford is also comparable. What do people think of its clinical?

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[OncDoc19]

I would go with UW. I spent a good portion of my life in the Seattle/Vancouver BC area and I would do anything to be back there. Both schools are excellent med schools so that doesn't seem to make a difference. Of course for MSTP you should think about what school has research interests that matches yours. I have to say I am so jealous of your choice. I want to do MD/PhD in history of medicine and UW won't allow such a thing because I would go there in a heartbeat over any other school. Good luck!

 

[durfen]

I would go with UW. I spent a good portion of my life in the Seattle/Vancouver BC area and I would do anything to be back there. Both schools are excellent med schools so that doesn't seem to make a difference. Of course for MSTP you should think about what school has research interests that matches yours. I have to say I am so jealous of your choice. I want to do MD/PhD in history of medicine and UW won't allow such a thing because I would go there in a heartbeat over any other school. Good luck!

One guy at UW is doing Medical Geography, actually UW would let you do it if you want it hard enough.

Wow man, your MDApplicants is top notch! I guarantee you'll have more choices than I do.

 

[byong_soo]

congrats! ur mdprofile is amazing. they are all great schools, but it seems that you shouldn't go to stanford because the other two are MSTP. I guess your decision should be between UW and Penn. In the end, this thread will say the same thing all the other thread says, they are both great schools, go where you felt better. But of course, they are both MSTPs, so I am sure you already looked into faculty research interest. I guess being able to match with their interest is also very important. If I ever had that choice, I would go to Penn~ Good luck deciding!!

 

[FizbanZymogen]

UW got the second largest amount of money from NIH (Harvard of course recieved the most). It really is a great research school despite the primary care PR we all constantly hear about. Also you can't really beat Seattle.

 

[durfen]

congrats! ur mdprofile is amazing. they are all great schools, but it seems that you shouldn't go to stanford because the other two are MSTP. I guess your decision should be between UW and Penn. In the end, this thread will say the same thing all the other thread says, they are both great schools, go where you felt better. But of course, they are both MSTPs, so I am sure you already looked into faculty research interest. I guess being able to match with their interest is also very important. If I ever had that choice, I would go to Penn~ Good luck deciding!!

Thanks, i've been real lucky this cycle (somehow I always have bad luck, except when it really matters). Stanford is still top choice, since I can apply internally and, unlike most other schools, student research is highly instititionally and financially supported (Med scholars: $12000 per quarter). I would need a compelling reason (other than cost ) to go elsewhere. I'm trying to fish for one with this thread......

In reply to Fizban - I thought UW is the biggest publicly supported institution, but 6th in NIH funding?

 

[FizbanZymogen]

In reply to Fizban - I thought UW is the biggest publicly supported institution, but 6th in NIH funding?

Just reporting what UW told all of us on our tours.

 

[fotografía]

Just reporting what UW told all of us on our tours.

"Penn's School of Medicine is ranked #2 in the nation for receipt of NIH research funds"
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/mar07/best-medical-schools.html

Hmmm... don't know about you UW people

But seriously 2nd or 6th in total NIH funds, that's not going make any difference whatsoever for a student. I would make this decision based on location, curriculum and the "gut" factor. I can't speak for UW, but Penn and Stanford had very different learning environments, Stanford's being way more lax. Too lax for me, in fact. Part of what I find attractive about Penn's curriculum is its structure, but that's totally a personal preference.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

Yes, I know about Penn's fanatastic research rep. but I just wanted to try and shed some light on UW since alot of people only hear about their PC aspects. Really you can't go wrong in this situation. Good luck with an incredibly tough choice!

 

[speedyE]

UW got the second largest amount of money from NIH (Harvard of course recieved the most). It really is a great research school despite the primary care PR we all constantly hear about. Also you can't really beat Seattle.

Just to clear this whole thing up about UWSOM- they received the second most in total funding of about $800 million. That being said, there are many more important factors that should go into your decision since all three are great research schools.

 

[durfen]

Yes, I know about Penn's fanatastic research rep. but I just wanted to try and shed some light on UW since alot of people only hear about their PC aspects. Really you can't go wrong in this situation. Good luck with an incredibly tough choice!

UW has a great research program, especially in my field (imaging).

Just to clear this whole thing up about UWSOM- they received the second most in total funding of about $800 million. That being said, there are many more important factors that should go into your decision since all three are great research schools.

Factors like what? What would you consider? (Sorry I'm fishing again).

 

[speedyE]

Factors like what? What would you consider? (Sorry I'm fishing again).

Ultimately these are factors you have to determine, but I think fotografia stated it well in that it usually comes down to curriculum, location, and that gut feeling. Regardless of the opportunities you may have on the research side, if you are not happy in the environment, you're not going to reach your potential. I think this may be even more important for mstp applicants because of the additional years.

Go where you are most excited about the programs, etc., which sounds like Stanford at the moment. That way you will be happy with your decision and hopefully maintain the enthusiasm.

 

[SeventhSon]

durfen, are you really considering stanford MD against those other 2 MSTP acceptances? Are you nuts? Getting into the MSTP as an interapplicant is anything but a shoe-in... you have to be doing research contemporaneously with classes, and then there is still no sure thing.

One of my favorite moments in the interview cycle last year was when I was interviewing at Stanford MD (i was rejected pre-interview for MSTP), and a student randomly overheard me talking to my friend who was a first year.

He turned around and said to me, "dude, if you are deciding between MSTPs and MD program here... don't be an idiot. Take the free money. Or else your life will be a living hell like mine." He then proceeded to turn around and continue walking away.

 

[photo_girl07]

Durfen- Congrats! You've got some amazing decisions to make. Go with MSTP

I do think MD at Stanford is great, but Stanford takes really few students each year for MSTP from their Medical School Class---so there are no guarentees.

Good Luck

 

[byong_soo]

it's true. you have to go with MSTP
it's not like stanford is a tier above the other two.

 

[deleted128318]

Have you thought about the D.O. route?

 

[durfen]

Have you thought about the D.O. route?

I know, I'm thinking of doing the unthinkable. I can't believe it myself really. Fact is this is my hometown and I want to stay (other personal reasons too). Prestige is not really a factor in my decision at this point, especially since i'm choosing between top 10s in any case.

Oh and btw, MSTP is not as financially rosy as you think. I did the calculations, you lose money because you postpone your salary as attending and as a resident for 3-4 years. Even if you don't count the lost money, the interest loss kills you. That's a whole other topic .

For any other applicant, it's an easy decision to make, but I'm invested here and that makes it hard. This is why I posted.

Thanks for your comments so far, I will be thinking about it further over the weekend.

 

[joshinjosh]

hot girls here in seattle

 

[durfen]

hot girls here in seattle

I know, I counted 10 on campus while interviewing

 

[byong_soo]

isn't choosing MSTP not just because of money, but because you want to be a physician-scientist? I'm sure you are a bright person, but there is a chance that you couldn't get into Stanford MSTP inhouse. I guess not getting PhD won't kill you, but you want it with a good reason and that's why you applied for MSTPs in the first place right?

 

[Iniqitous]

"Philadelphia Struggles to Quell an Epidemic of Gun Violence "
in todays NY Times
so I reckon if you like trauma surgery the 400+ gunshot wounds treated at HUP a plus...however, if you dont like to get shot at on way to school its a minus ?!

 

[QuakerMD]

"Philadelphia Struggles to Quell an Epidemic of Gun Violence "
in todays NY Times
so I reckon if you like trauma surgery the 400+ gunshot wounds treated at HUP a plus...however, if you dont like to get shot at on way to school its a minus ?!

The vast majority of GSW's go to Temple (in unsafe north philly), not Penn (in quite safe university city).

 

[durfen]

The vast majority of GSW's go to Temple (in unsafe north philly), not Penn (in quite safe university city).

Yeah, Penn is pretty safe. Temple I didn't even think of applying to.

In answer to byong_soo: Yes I do want to be a physician scientist, but you don't need a PhD to be one, at least in the bureaucratic sense. The idea here is say Stanford were to give me an MSTP spot, then I would go to Stanford without even thinking about it. But is the reason for Stanford being first-choice weigh more than the say 80% chance I won't be doing the PhD? Will more research as an MD student balance that out?

Again thanks for all your suggestions. to all waiting and/or matriculating next year.

 

[Neuronix]

Just reporting what UW told all of us on our tours.

Here's the confusion. Some places and statistics report total research dollars for the institution and its affiliates. Some statistics report total research dollars for just the medical school.

For total research dollars by medical school (05 is most recent):

http://grants.nih.gov/grants/award/rank/medttl05.htm

For total research dollars including affiliates, the only place I'm aware to get those numbers is USNews rankings.

The top 5 there for 2005 are:
Harvard ($977.3mil)
UWash ($488.50mil)
Penn ($462.50mil)
Hopkins ($411.70mil)
UCLA ($383.30mil)

Comparing that now back to their medical school only rankings:
Harvard - #26
UWash - #6
Penn - #2
Hopkins - #1
UCLA - #7

It's always hard to know exactly what these numbers mean. How many students at each institution really utilize the affiliates? How close are they to the institution? Are medical students or MSTPs allowed to do research there as easily as at the home medical school? But, anywhere there's a ranking schools will brag about it if they can somehow spin themslves to the top.

Of course for MSTPs a more useful measure is the rankings in their particular area. In Radiology, funding rankings can be found:
http://www.acadrad.org/showpage.aspx?page=nihrank05inclrd
(Penn #6, Stanford #7, UWash #13)

PS: Iniquitous, how many places are you going to spam that one article? You a troll or just a Penn hater for some reason?

 

[durfen]

Here's the confusion. Some places and statistics report total research dollars for the institution and its affiliates. Some statistics report total research dollars for just the medical school.

For total research dollars by medical school (05 is most recent):

http://grants.nih.gov/grants/award/rank/medttl05.htm

For total research dollars including affiliates, the only place I'm aware to get those numbers is USNews rankings.

Radiology Rankings! Score! Actually these rankings weighed quite a bit in my school selection