Penn vs. UF.... 1 week to decide !!

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damian12

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Most of you are already aware of my dilema, and it has recently become even more difficult to make the right decision between UF and Penn. I have until the 10th of January to make my decision between the schools, due to the fact that I've been awarded the Minority scholarship (50% of tuition).

You probably already know the deal - private school vs. state school , drastically different tuitions(12K vs. 34K), and opportunities to specialize. What do I do !?!?

As far as location, I'm pretty familiar with UF, but haven't the slightest clue about life in Philly. Also, 5 of my undergrad peers have been accepted to UF !! Keep in mind that I intend on specializing !!!!

I need help - pronto !! Thanks for any input ! 😱 😱
 
roll a die three times

1,3,6 = UF

2, 4, 5 = PENN

2/3 wins

I know this is serious dilemma for you. You have a lot on the plate. Remember you can still specialize if you go to UF, you just have to work harder. You say you want to specialize now, but who knows what will happen 4 years down the road. People change their minds.

I would recommend going to Philly and staying there for at least a week and seeing how you like it. It is very important. Philly is a city, unlike NY or SF, you have to have a taste for it. I personally loved it down there. The history, culture, nightlife were exquisite. Remember it is one of the oldest cities in America.

DesiDentist
 
If u have the scholarship, UPENN.
 
LOL, let's all take a vote on this matter and help damian out.

i say, UPENN
 
Damian, why don't u do a POLL?
😛
 
Originally posted by DesiDentist
Remember you can still specialize if you go to UF, you just have to work harder. [/B]

Sorry, but I find this a little hard to believe. Whether you go to Penn or Florida, you will have to work hard at either school if you want to specialize. You can't really know your chances of specializing until you get into dental school and go through the classes and see how your grades turn out. Studying for dental school was WAY different than how I studied for undergrad. Remeber, you no longer have the "Music Appreciation" class to balance out the super-hard "Cell Biology and Pathways" class. All classes count and require effort.

Damian, however, if specializing is one of the factors you are considering before making your decision b/w UF and Penn, you might want to ask this question to both schools. How much time do you get off (if any) before NBDE I to study? I don't know what the answer is for Penn, but some UF students I met were complaining how they have to take their boards in December of sophomore year in the midst of all the other finals they have to worry about. That is MAJORLY stressful if you want to do well on them. The policy may have changed since then, but you might want to check it out. It is really nice to have some time off to study before the boards. You should probably try asking upperclassmen at the schools this question.

Also, you should talk to some general dentists and specialists in the specialty that interests you about what they think between UF and Penn.

If both are equally affordable, I'd go with Penn. Only b/c I'm from the NE and I think Philly is more interesting than Gainesville...
 
Thanks for the input guyz, I'm in desperate need of ANY info I could get a hold of. Well, I've already started to sweat bullets and the convulsions have started to kick in aswell. This really blowz - Moby Dick has absolutely NO IDEA !!

Believe me when I say, I have absolutely no idea what lies ahead in the next few days. Perhaps tommorrow @ midnight the anxiety will wear off and the new year will bring nothing but pleasant thoughts and joy. Well, for now that's just wishful thinking, and the reality I'm facing is kicking my ass and putting me in a choke hold.

Thanks Tinky. I guess the logical thing is to conduct a poll and see what the SDNers think about this situation. Again, thanks for everyones thoughts, and if you have any ideas/ stories/ or anything pertaining to UF and Penn, please let me know !!! 😱 😱
 
hey damian,

i'm sort of in the same boat as you - i was deciding between upenn and ufl, although i didn't get a 1/2 tuition scholarship to penn. i also have wanted for years to specialize in dentistry. my major deciding factor was cost, as i reasoned that as long as i put my mind to it, i will make an effort to do well regardless of the dental school i attended. it's really up to you where you decide to go, but i do have some stuff to share - i spent alot of time talking to and emailing some of the students at both schools and here are some excerpts of what uf students said to me by email:

"The cost shouldn't persuade your decision too much. The money is out there from scholarships and student loans to cover the cost and with interest rates so low right now, it really isn't going to cost too much. Plus, wherever you end up practicing, there is such a short supply of dentsists right now, that the payback after graduation will definitely help with loans. As far as programs go, look at what you want to do the most. Are you looking for a research or clinical oriented program? What type of patient pool does each school have? Are there extracurricular activities? Are research opportunities available? What types and how much lab work do you have to do at each school? UF has a strong clinical program. Depending on the specialty you are interested in, I can offer a little advice. UF undergrads do not do a lot of endo. On the opposite side of that, many student do in excess of 150 extractions, including complicated surgical extractions.
UF's grad pedo department is one of the best in the country, and
highly regarded for its clinical aspect. The oral surgery and ortho
programs are also very good. I don't know much about the perio
program. We do all of our own die work for crowns at UF, but no wax ups for fixed. There are ALOT of people from UF going to specialty programs, especially this years graduating class. There are also a lot of people who could be going but choose not to. I am very satisfied with UF. The only major gripe I have is scheduling patient chairs, but that is SUPPOSEDLY being fixed. Each school is what YOU make of it.

another student wrote;
"I absoutely LOVE dental school at UF. In my opinion, we've got one of the best programs in the country. Our clinics are great, especially when compared to some other schools. We've got fantastic faculty and I feel I"ve gotten an extremely well rounded experience. To my knowledge, people wanting to specialize have no problems (as long as their grades, board scores, etc. are good.) "

both are 4th year dental students going into specialty programs. i also have emails from penn students who are generally satisfied with their programs as well. hope this helps - if you have any more questions, feel free to pm me!
 
hey leafhound,


Could you post the PENN emails too? I would love to hear what students think of that program. Thanks a lot.

DesiDentist
 
p.s. i forgot to mention, if you're really concerned about board scores (I and II), you can find UF's board exam results on their dental school webpage. it's a little tricky to find and right now i don't have the link, but if you play around you'll find it. at any case, i have the data printed out.
 
I?m not sure about posting everything the Penn students said, partly because some of their emails were quite long, but I went back and copied what seems to be most relevant to Damians? concerns ? that of the cost differences and specializing:

?Penn is worth the outrageous tuition if you are interested more in pursuing a residency program afterwards. We have one of the top acceptance rates in the country for oral surgery, orthodontics, periodontics etc. Our curriculum emphases the basice sciences and
theory much more than the clinic. We also learn much more "medicine" than just
being a dentist. For those reasons, some people like it and others may have
preferred to go elsewhere?. Penn has paid off, but like I said, it has certainly NOT always been the most benign and pleasant experience.?

?The money is definately a big deal. I have a half scholarship so it makes it a little bit easier. A big benefit to Penn is the name and the reputation that this school has. If you would like to specialize in the future there are definite benefits to that.
I think it all really boils down to where you think that you are going to be happiest. You're going to get a great education wherever it is that you go. I'm definately satisfied with my expirence although some things haven't always been that easy.?
 
?As far as my school being worth the money, I'm not very sure. Penn has a really good academic reputation, but our clinical facilities are not very good compared to many other schools. If you've toured here I'm sure that you have seen that our main clinic and our
preclinical lab are very old and not in great shape. But there are other advantages to going to our school. If you are interested in specializing in ortho, endo, perio, oral surgery, etc, I think that our school has a really good record for sending people to these programs. We also have a lot of faculty members with a lot of connections who can really help you out if you want to get into some programs...?

Hope my little research helps you guys out. I forgot to note previously that UF students have at least a 90% matching rate to specialties as well. Feel free to email students yourself with further questions, I believe we have a pink (?) sheet full of their names that was given to us during interview day.
 
i think the above threads tell you everything you need to know. people at both schools love them, and don't regret their decisions.

so forget about the schools.

pick the city. gainesville and philly are far from similar. i grew up in orlando, went to school in tallahassee, and spent quite some time in gville. personally, i never liked it. i was accepted there and chose not to attend based on the fact that (in my mind) quality of life, even during dental school, will mean more to me than how many extractions i do or how long i have to study for boards.

have you ever wanted to experience life in a true city? guess what... you can try it for 4 years. if you dont like it, move back to florida, or anywhere else for that matter.

i had lived in florida all my life. all of my friends live there. all of my family lives there. and honestly, i didnt really enjoy it that much. it's not bad...but nothing special.

i figured that, if i chose UF, i would graduate, be certified to practice in florida, have all my contacts (dental and nondental) in florida, potentially have offers for jobs there, and even possibly have a family there (you never know).

that being the case, it would be tough, even silly, to leave.

i saw going elsewhere for dental school as my best opportunity to try something else. if i dont like it, hey, i'll head back to florida.

i say forget the schools.

where are you going to enjoy your life more?
 
i'm in the same boat at you guys. It's nice seeing people who are in the same situation since everyone tells me just to go to UF.

Anywayz,
Damian.. If you don't plan to practice in Florida, I don't see the point of going to UF. You got 1/2 off from the tuition from PEnn!. It might cost a little more than UF, but it will be worth it if you want to specialize.

but then, it's my opinion. I haven't even made my own decision yet!! UF is a good school and you can live closer to your family in florida. 🙂
Good lucK~

:clap:
 
Living closer to family??? If you drive from Miami to Gainesville it will take you 6 hours. You can fly from Philly to Miami in less than 2.5 hours.



Take your PEN and make your check out to PENN, cuz PENN is a gold egg laying HEN. Then you can hang TEN, here in PHILLY. Don't be SILLY just come to PENN, whose founder was BEN. George was on the one dollar bill, where was BEN? Oh my gosh!!! the big TEN times TEN (100) what does that mean, THEN?


What do you say, dami AN??

DesiDentist
 
That's so funny, desi. 😀 :clap:
 
DesiDentist: Funny post. It seems you think highly of Penn, have you submitted your deposit yet? I just confirmed with them this morning that they received my deposit. 🙂

AE
-Penn is where it's at.
 
Yup, i have high regards for PENN. Even if they weren't ivy league, and well established I would still have high regards for them. They treated me like a colleague, not just a number like other schools. I wrote the dean of academics an email on Christmas and I received a wonderful reply today, the day after New Years. Other schools don't even reply back.

I would definately pay more to get treated right!!! Going to a five star restaurant is much different than going to Mc Donalds...what is the main difference....Service, Attitude, Respect, etc.

It's all about Class!!

DesiDentist
 
Leafhound:

In your earlier post you said, " i also have emails from penn students who are generally satisfied with their programs as well. "

Thanks for posting clipping of the penn emails, but I wanted to let you know that you just posted the parts you felt would show UF in a much positive light than PENN.

Regarding facilities, mind you that PENN just has opened up a new state of the art 70,000 square feet Robert Schattner center. Granted, some of the facilities were old, but the school is historic. Over 125 years old. It could be a museum if you wanted it to be.

The school has their own Leon Levy Library for the dental school, alone. I haven't encountered a single other school that has their own dental library that houses only material for the dentist.

One of the students posted that most the curriculum is more medicine. Well, dentistry is a speciality of medicine. We are doctors of the oral cavity. We as future dentists need to know about systemic diseases that could progress to the oral cavity.
Some early symptoms arise throughout the body but can be detected with scrutiny with the naked eye in the oral cavity. For example, Candida albicans causes oral thrush and presence of oral thrush in the mouth illustrates immune deficiency, or HIV. A dentist must know what is going on there, not only in the mouth but in the entire body.

PENN requires every student to do 70 hours of community service before graduating as a graduation requirement. This emphasises philanthropy and giving back to the community, which each one of us must do. I believe in take a lot, but always give a little back.

PENN requires a 6 week hospital externship that can be done at affiliated hospitals(in USA) or over 30 destinations across the globe. I've heard of temple offering the Haiti trip, but PENN has organized these for their dental students.

PENN offers Primary Care Units (PCU) which are assignments that D3's receive that give the student a full eye view of all aspects of the general clinic that are located at various locations throughout the philly area. I personally went into a PCU and let me tell you the experience at a PCU is unique. it sure beats working in a huge clinic. It gives the student a feel for the private clinic.

PENN is the only school with its own journal: PENN Dental Journal. Which is the oldest of its kind.

I believe PENN is the only dental school with its own "Dental House." Here only dental students live. Also a faculty member is available as well. And a Lab is offered at all times of the day for your convenience.

Unlike other schools, i've noticed that PENN judiciously plans out the curriculum so it doesn't overlapp with boards. Many students U.Washington were complaining about having to go do their boards and then start taking finals. (Columbia people, this is you too.) Rather than starting out 10 classes at one time, PENN starts with five classes and in the middle begins the other five, while the first five end earlier and then the next five end. So only the few middle weeks you will have all ten classes together. (example), so that minimizes brain explosion.

PENN has a Summer Research Program, to give students a hands on feel of research. The dental school publishes well over 100 articles in major publications each year. PENN Is in the top five schools with the most NIH funding.

PENN has stringent competency expectations: which is a program that requires ALL students must demostrate IN ADDITION to individual department and course requirements which are divided into four categories:General Skills, Patient care competencies, Treatment, and Practice management.

Someone mentioned that you can see how much a school is worth by seeing if people donate back to it. There is no problem with donations at PENN. Dr. Schattner just donated 4,000,000 dollars (40,000 Benjamins) for the new center. With ample other donations exceeding $10,000. So if people are giving back that much money to this school, then definately it has given them something priceless that even money cannot repay.

A fulfilling future in dental medicine. Confidence to take a lot and give back to the community. Pride. passion for dentistry and community service. People are proud to go to this school and so am I.

Specialties? A couple of years ago there were 14 people who went into Ortho. No that is not a miss print, fourteen. At U.Washington rarely 2 people get into orthodontics. Only 5 people went straight to General practice. I don't know if I want to specialize, but it doesn't hurt to go to a school with such high caliber.

Dual degrees. PENN has options to get you M.S. Ed in the same time to get your DMD or your MPH. It's good to have options there.

So if you want a well rounded program. PENN is your solution. If you start worrying about money now, then you will always worry about money. It is a well known fact, that if you want to make money you must first lose money. Is 42,000 a year a lot. Of course it is. But in the long run it is a small price to pay to have a fulfilling career as a proud alumni of University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine.

I say to you today, "Go in confidence or don't go at all." It is a proven fact that those people who are successful in life always think positive. So what if I'll be $250,000+ in debt, the more i'm sunk the more motivation i will have to make it back. People have done it before us, am I less competent then them? HECK NO!! I plan on making money when I graduate. Life is much more than just money. Other factors must overweigh money at times.

I hope Damian, AcidETCH, Ranman, and all those other who might join me next year, this post will give you confidence that you are making the right decision. As long as you know, it really doesn't matter what they say.

PENN DENTAL 007~ Bond, James Bond

DesiDentist


PENN: THE SCHOOL THAT LOVES YOU BACK!!!
 
Can you say Whoa ? That was very deep, and informative too.... Loved it Desi !! No doubt, Penn is where it's at !!!
 
Desi: What do you mean I might join you? I've already sent in my deposit and enrollment confirmation letter since 2wks ago. I was just waiting for you. 😀 Hope to see you there.

AE
 
Congrats AcidETCH !! You've chosen a great school, and a leader in the dental community !! Hope to see ya there !!
 
Damian: Congrats to you too for deciding to attend UPENN. It's an awesome school with an awesome program. Best of luck.

AE
 
Only wish that I have the opportunity to go to PENN.
It's the best of the East. That's the school I would go to if I go East.
Philly is cool, Penn is cool, cheeseteak is delicious.
Your education is priceless, don't count money in.
Tinker Bell
 
i really think its more of a lifestyle decision. It's more of the variety of which do you prefer, your local state school or the elite, rarified Northeastern Ivy league atmosphere? I think the decision is more of a lifestyle choice than anything else. Let's do this methodically.

1. If your dream is to do endo, ortho, research, then Penn is your choice.
2. With your half scholarship, money is moot.

Penn:
1. If you want to specialize, do research, Penn is it.
2. Philly is a major city, Gainesville has no real scene outside of the campus. Philly has a LOT more too offer and is close to New York, too.
3. Penn is IVY LEAGUE. You'll meet Wharton students, Penn undergrads, you'll have all the resources of a major Ivy school Lots of interesting experiences if you didn't go to a NE elite private for undergrad. But if you did, this point is moot.
4. If you are from the Midwest/ South, a different experience.
5. If you always choose the best that you can get, the choice is obvious.


Florida
1. Social life would likely be better, if you prefer raucous undergrad style parties. If you prefer an older crowd, go for Philly.
Some people prefer the college-town type social life. opportunities.
2. Great weather, beaches, attractive Florida chicks.
3. Lower cost of living, less stress/traffic, friendlier environment/students.

4. Clinical skills likely better.
5. If you want to practice in FL, it will be easier to pass FL boards.
6. If you are from the NE, a different experience.


That's all I can think of for right now.
 
Very interesting point of view. I would think that there would be some attractive people at Penn too. :laugh: But I guess that dental students will be too busy to notice. 😛

AE
 
Of course. PENN has some good looking people, too. To answer your question AcidETCH I will be sending my moolah in a couple of days. I had a question, did you send a personal check or a cashiers/money order. I don't have time to go to the bank, I was wondering if a personal check would suffice.

I am so pumped. I just spent a hour comparing exam schedules/class schedules. Most of the classes at PENN start at 10:00 am. No tests overlapped, no finals overlapped. Actually there is no finals week, some classes end sooner but no finals overlap at all. Actually there are some gaps between finals.

Awesome.


Are you excited AcidETCH?? I am!

DesiDentist
 
Classes starts at 10am and no finals overlap? No final week?
U better be serious, because that is really, really a magnet, desi.
Every one will love the place.
Including me.
:clap: :clap:
Now, I'll have to go pray.
😀
 
Yeah, most of the first year classes don't start til ten and end around 4-5pm. But there are some days when the labs are early in the morning. usually classes end early on mondays and fridays around 2 or 3 pm. It is a demanding schedule, but they really seem to have organized it really well so the students can do well if they try hard.

Also we have summers off. Could you believe it!!!! School starts from 8/26 to middle of June. In the summers you can do research and add credentials for specialties. Not many schools have summer's off.

Tinker Bell, you will have to go down there and see for yourself. The minute you walk in through those doors you will sense something different. You will see what I am talking about.

DesiDentist

PENN DENTAL 007 "Bond, Prime & Bond"
 
i will go there the minute I get invited.
Can u make t-shirt with the Penn logo and distribute?
I like the year 007.
:clap:
 
Desidentist: I sent in a money order via express mail. That way the school will get the money and I can track it. Just safer that way. I didn't think of writing a personal check because I live in Canada, hence the check would be in Canadian funds. 🙂 Only if 60K were in Canadian funds! That would be so good. Anyways, just call up UPENN and make sure that they accept personal checks. I'm just paranoid now-a-days, gonna call UPENN up again and re-confirm that they have my money on Monday. 😀

AE
 
Hey, damian, after all of that, you decided UF.
I'm so disappointed. UPENN is soooooooo good, and with that scholarship?
I'm speechless when I saw your post in the Decision thread. You don't really know what you are missing. Going to penn will open lots of opportunities....and it's such a great place to be.
Tinker Bell
 
Originally posted by DesiDentist
Leafhound:

In your earlier post you said, " i also have emails from penn students who are generally satisfied with their programs as well. "

Thanks for posting clipping of the penn emails, but I wanted to let you know that you just posted the parts you felt would show UF in a much positive light than PENN.

*******
desidentist, i didn't read your post till now. in regards to your comment - it seems you're telling me that i'm only picking and choosing parts of the emails that will show UF in a positive light, over penn.

in all honesty, in cutting and pasting from the emails i received, i was making sure both viewpoints (pros AND cons about each school) were both mentioned. i didn't choose to go to penn, but i wasn' t persuading damian or anyone else either go to UF. a major question i asked the penn students was if the expensive tuition was worth it over my state school. i posted everything they answered - in regards to that question. if the penn students have been hesitant to tell me whether penn was worth the tuition, they said it and i pasted it. i also pasted when they told me penn was a great choice for them and it will work out money-wise in the end. i also showed that every penn student thinks that a big benefit of attending penn is the specializing. i think both sides were mentioned. if you'd rather think that i was only selecting what would put UF in the most positive light, maybe i should just forward you all the emails to reassure you that's not the case.

i'm glad you're really proud of going to PENN (it really shows) but no need to make it seem like i was, while sifting through their email, only selecting what makes UF look more attractive than your school. damian was making a hard decision and i was showing pros and cos about each school (both are great schools, by the way), but i was not rooting one over the other. try re-reading, carefully this time, what i've posted previously.
 
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