People gaming URM status

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Egypt is in Africa. He was born in America. Hence he is African-American. He was correct in marking African as his ethnicity.

Sadly no. Here is the AAMC site on ethnicity:

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/glossary/

This is the reference they use:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fedreg_1997standards/

From white house site:

"White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."


Egypt is a part of Northern Africa. If he is truly Egyptian, then he is white.

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Okay, fair enough. For me though, the union of male and female is the most beautiful thing in the world. I don't feel complete unless I'm with a female. Also, though that sperm seems nasty to you, I'm sure you realize you need sperm to create males AND females.

Here try this out if you don't believe me. Put a whole bunch of females in a room. You will notice with time that the number of females are decreasing, not increasing. 2 females can't make another female. You need a male aka sperm and a female to create another female. You're half sperm yourself!
You're not really half sperm, you just get the genetic material. Theoretically you could even take it from another egg, but science has cold feet on that one.

You shouldn't feel "incomplete" when you're single. That you don't feel complete unless you're with a female is pretty sad and demonstrates that you've probably got some insecurities that you haven't dealt with. A secure person should feel like an excellent guitarist- sure, it'd be great if they had a partner playing drums or the bass, but you can play a fine tune on your own.
 
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I'm willing to bet almost anything that the story in the OP never happened.

It could be the fact that

Hey all, so one of my friend's brother has started a MD program at a top 20 school. He is Egyptian, born in the U.S., and honestly does not look anything like an AA. He showed me his application he used for the last cycle, and all he literally had was 2 quarters of research, 100 hours of hospital volunteering, and being in the Egyptian club at his school. 3 activities listed total. He had a 3.7 GPA and <30 MCAT. He got into all of the HBCU's. He told me he marked African in his ethnicity, and I have no doubt that it gave him a huge advantage as he said that interviewers asked him about his AA heritage and culture and how he had to make things up for these questions. I don't understand how people get away with these things...? Can anyone explain? Just ticks me off a little that affirmative action isn't working the way its supposed to be for these cases.

AMCAS shows you what you marked so why would Op need his friend to tell him?

Also if the friend got into a top 20 school, why would he brag about getting into all the HBCUs? And if he got accepted to a few already, why attend all the interviews? And why does every one of these threads have be extremes or absurd examples of crappy ECs, low MCAT and/or GPA and top schools (never even mid tier).

Because as you said, Op is full of crap and trying to stir an URM debate.
 
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You're not really half sperm, you just get the genetic material. Theoretically you could even take it from another egg, but science has cold feet on that one.

You shouldn't feel "incomplete" when you're single. That you don't feel complete unless you're with a female is pretty sad and demonstrates that you've probably got some insecurities that you haven't dealt with. A secure person should feel like an excellent guitarist- sure, it'd be great if they had a partner playing drums or the bass, but you can play a fine tune on your own.

If that makes you feel better about yourself, then sure thing buddy.

as for your theory that two eggs can produce a viable female fetus, if you believe in it so much, prove it and then show the world.
 
It could be the fact that



AMCAS shows you what you marked so why would Op need his friend to tell him?

Also if the friend got into a top 20 school, why would he brag about getting into all the HBCUs? And if he got accepted to a few already, why attend all the interviews? And why does every one of these threads have be extremes or absurd examples of crappy ECs, low MCAT and/or GPA and top schools (never even mid tier).

Because as you said, Op is full of crap and trying to stir an URM debate.

Yah, the stories always have the same pattern in these threads. There's always so much information left out, all of it important. But one thing never changes: OP - 6 posts total. Page count: 1+
 
If that makes you feel better about yourself, then sure thing buddy.

as for your theory that two eggs can produce a viable female fetus, if you believe in it so much, prove it and then show the world.

Prove it? You're kidding right? They've done this with numerous animals....it doesn't have to be genetic material from two eggs either.
 
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Prove it? You're kidding right? They've done this with numerous animals....it doesn't have to be genetic material from two eggs either.

prove it with humans. Put two human adult females together in a room and see if they can create a viable female fetus together. Let's see if it's applicable to the real world.
 
prove it with humans. Put two human adult females together in a room and see if they can create a viable female fetus together.

Nobody said you can do it the "traditional" way but certainly it's theoretically possible to be able to do that in the lab with humans (ethics aside, obviously), since it has been done with other animals.
 
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Nobody said you can do it the "traditional" way but certainly it's theoretically possible to be able to do that in the lab with humans (ethics aside, obviously), since it has been done with other animals.

there's a huge leap between animal experiments and human experiments
 
there's a huge leap between animal experiments and human experiments

Ya, that's why I said "theoretically possible"; every biomedical advancement starts out with animal experiments.
 
Ya, that's why I said "theoretically possible"; every biomedical advancement starts out with animal experiments.

yes but everyone might not understand that "theoretically possible" is still a very far way from implementing it in the real world.
 
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prove it with humans. Put two human adult females together in a room and see if they can create a viable female fetus together. Let's see if it's applicable to the real world.
"The real world" includes anything we can do in a test tube. If you are saying it doesn't then in the "real world" we can't make insulin for diabetics, we can't create vaccines for disease, etc. Test tube and science are the damn real world. And we could clone humans if we wanted to, or create embryos from two eggs. We have, thusfar, chosen not to. My bet is that one or the other will happen in the next decade or two, most likely the latter as a result of lesbians wanting to create a child with their own genetic material.
 
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yes but everyone might not understand that "theoretically possible" is still a very far way from implementing it in the real world.
:rolleyes: It's been done on mammals, which I believe aren't imaginary, and are in fact in the real world.
 
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:rolleyes: It's been done on mammals, which I believe aren't imaginary, and are in fact in the real world.

I repeat, take 2 adult women and make them create a viable female fetus right now. Your answer is you can't. Discussion over.
 
Thread attempting to incite a URM flame war devolves into an argument about whether or not two women can produce offspring...
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Okay, fair enough. For me though, the union of male and female is the most beautiful thing in the world. I don't feel complete unless I'm with a female. Also, though that sperm seems nasty to you, I'm sure you realize you need sperm to create males AND females.

Here try this out if you don't believe me. Put a whole bunch of females in a room. You will notice with time that the number of females are decreasing, not increasing. 2 females can't make another female. You need a male aka sperm and a female to create another female. You're half sperm yourself!
Is this real life?

Haha I like where this thread went. Leave it to @touchpause13
 
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Oh dear god this is going to turn into that liberty abstract thread!
 
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I am not trying to stir an URM debate; I am in favor of it. What I found shocking was the way that people use it and somehow get away with it. I don't think a 3.7 GPA is low at all, by the way. My example is nowhere near extreme or absurd unless you think a 3.7 GPA and 30 MCAT are horrible stats to have. And this did happen. He was planning to attend Howard but got off the waitlist for the school he is going to go now.
We've thought about the original post and decided lesbian test tube babies were more interesting to talk about, given that the URM debate is never going anywhere and comes up about once a day. We've all got outrage fatigue toward URM admission threads.
 
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We've thought about the original post and decided lesbian test tube babies were a more interesting to talk about, given that the URM debate is never going anywhere and comes up about once a day. We've all got outrage fatigue toward URM admission threads.

Gotta agree. I was actually delighted to peek under the curtain of this thread and see lesbian test tube babies instead of URM drama.
 
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I repeat, take 2 adult women and make them create a viable female fetus right now. Your answer is you can't. Discussion over.

Actually, nature has some examples for you.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...-new-species-all-female-lizard-bred-in-a-lab/

The new mexico whiptail is a species of only female lizards. They carry an extra (sex determining) chromosome and are able to reproduce without any biological males existing in their species. Pretty fascinating.

There are also species of animals that can change their sex "at will" to suit the needs of the population and environment.

The platypus has an absurd number of sex determining chromosomes, I forget how many, and the offspring's sex is determined only by the ratio of Xs to Ys and nothing else.

Your binary view of the reproductive sexes is really only informed by your opinion as a human, it's myopic to assume it would work the samw way everywhere in nature.
 
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I bet if you knew when to administer which hormones, from conception to adulthood, you could make a fertile XX male, who would only produce X sperm, though. Is there anything really on the Y chromosome except transcription factors?
 
I bet if you knew when to administer which hormones, from conception to adulthood, you could make a fertile XX male, who would only produce X sperm, though. Is there anything really on the Y chromosome except transcription factors?

Hormones are pretty darn powerful, it is true. But there might just be a little more to it than that. Every time we think we have a handle on the complexities that underlie our biology, we discover only that our hubris was even greater still.

I think you could make a phenotypic male, but I highly doubt that he would not be sterile.
 
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I think you'd have to come up with a better option for bottom surgery for transmen first. As it stands there aren't a lot of good options out there.
 
Egypt is in Africa. He was born in America. Hence he is African-American. He was correct in marking African as his ethnicity.

It really is this simple OP. :p Whether you agree with university admission policies is one thing, but implying that the student is gaming the student by checking the box that correctly identifies his ethnicity goes a bit far in my opinion.
 
prove it with humans. Put two human adult females together in a room and see if they can create a viable female fetus together. Let's see if it's applicable to the real world.

Since this thread has already gone to hell, I'll indulge. My understanding is that this can be done using serial nuclear transfer. Take an egg from female 1. Remove its nucleus. Take an egg nucleus from female 2 and inject it into the de-nucleated egg from female 1. In many cases, this will simulate fertilization and it will begin to divide and grow like a blastula. I wish I could find a citation.
 
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It really is this simple OP. :p Whether you agree with university admission policies is one thing, but implying that the student is gaming the student by checking the box that correctly identifies his ethnicity goes a bit far in my opinion.

Egyptians aren't African American.


And I will have one test tube baby please.
 
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Dude. I want test tube twins.
 
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It really is this simple OP. :p Whether you agree with university admission policies is one thing, but implying that the student is gaming the student by checking the box that correctly identifies his ethnicity goes a bit far in my opinion.

I don't think you read my post.

Sadly no. Here is the AAMC site on ethnicity:

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/glossary/

This is the reference they use:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/fedreg_1997standards/

From white house site:

"White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."


Egypt is a part of Northern Africa. If he is truly Egyptian, then he is white.

Not that simple.
 
Wth happened with this thread.

Please stay on topic, and please see the sticky at the top of the pre-allo forum regarding derailing threads:

Off Topic / Derailing Posts:
  • Users' posts are expected to contribute to the threads and discussions in which they take place.
  • There are social threads and even an entire forum for posting random thoughts or unrelated content.
A consistent pattern of not fulfilling these basic expectations will result in action, up to and including banning from the site in accordance with the Terms of Service which all members agree to at the time of registration.
 
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Wth happened with this thread.

Please stay on topic, and please see the sticky at the top of the pre-allo forum regarding derailing threads:
Thanks ismet.

Please everyone let's stay on the topic about how awful urms are, how unfair the system is, and how easy it is to game.
 
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Thanks ismet.

Please everyone let's stay on the topic about how awful urms are, how unfair the system is, and how easy it is to game.
Lol. This is probably the funniest thing you've ever posted.

Honestly, the derailment of this thread was the best thing that came out of this God awful thread.
 
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I feel like they should be barred as a topic overall, personally. It's not like arguing whether or not it's fair will do anything. I feel like there could be a sticky stating what the URM status does, and then allowing people to be informed about what it is without absolute nonsense exploding in pre-allo.
 
Wth happened with this thread.

Please stay on topic, and please see the sticky at the top of the pre-allo forum regarding derailing threads:
Isn't derailing troll thread less a violation of the spirit of the forum and more a public service?
 
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I feel like they should be barred as a topic overall, personally. It's not like arguing whether or not it's fair will do anything. I feel like there could be a sticky stating what the URM status does, and then allowing people to be informed about what it is without absolute nonsense exploding in pre-allo.

Except the OP was not about the "URM advantage" being fair or not fair. It was about someone gaming the system, which does happen. Nothing you can really do about it, but it's certainly frustrating.

Isn't derailing troll thread less a violation of the spirit of the forum and more a public service?

I was not under the impression that OP was a troll. I think people are quick to call "troll" when someone asks too simple a question or anything regarding URM or really anything outside the norm. Keep in mind that not everyone has been on SDN for months or years and not everyone has a full understanding of the system. I thought it was a fair question.

Also, if you think it's a troll thread, keep in mind that engaging with a troll is against TOS. ;)
 
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I don't know why you guys are calling the op a troll just because you support affirmative action due to the fact that it helps you. I know a person at a top med school of egyptian heritage and claimed aa status. It's far from an implausible situation
 
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This is NOT a black and white world my friend. Your "gaming" is someone else's genuine and totally honest circumstances. Note mixed race, mixed culture, mixed nationality. In 2014, most (if not all) countries of the world have people of every race and culture - so you can be white AND from Africa, or Hispanic from Asia, Asian from Europe, etc.
 
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Except the OP was not about the "URM advantage" being fair or not fair. It was about someone gaming the system, which does happen. Nothing you can really do about it, but it's certainly frustrating.



I was not under the impression that OP was a troll. I think people are quick to call "troll" when someone asks too simple a question or anything regarding URM or really anything outside the norm. Keep in mind that not everyone has been on SDN for months or years and not everyone has a full understanding of the system. I thought it was a fair question.

Also, if you think it's a troll thread, keep in mind that engaging with a troll is against TOS. ;)

Ah, I see the TOS is as rigorously enforced as the US Constitution, happy to see ;).
<3
 
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Except the OP was not about the "URM advantage" being fair or not fair. It was about someone gaming the system, which does happen. Nothing you can really do about it, but it's certainly frustrating.

I was not under the impression that OP was a troll. I think people are quick to call "troll" when someone asks too simple a question or anything regarding URM or really anything outside the norm. Keep in mind that not everyone has been on SDN for months or years and not everyone has a full understanding of the system. I thought it was a fair question.

Also, if you think it's a troll thread, keep in mind that engaging with a troll is against TOS. ;)
I agree. I think people are shocked a little to believe that URM advantage exists at the medical school admissions level. Affirmative action exists at ALL levels, med school admission, residency, an as an attending for hire. How powerful it is, I believe wanes quite a bit at each step but it is DEFINITELY still there. See any med school/residency that says they are an Equal Opportunity Employer. Why do people think at med schools there are Deans for Diversity Affairs?
 
I don't know why you guys are calling the op a troll just because you support affirmative action due to the fact that it helps you. I know a person at a top med school of egyptian heritage and claimed aa status. It's far from an implausible situation
I didn't feel the situation is implausible, I feel the suddenly new poster who, while seemingly concerned in his OP, never replies combined with the back story of *insert rly low stats* + *insert URM* makes it a very likely troll. OP is still nowhere to be found.
 
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