People who don't care about MPH?

[Lolscan]

I think it's stupid. I hate it when these liberal academics jam socialism down my throat in the population and behaviors class. It's particularly bad at my school because our MD/MPH program. All day you have MPH students ranting about how much acute care sucks and prevention rocks. Don't get me wrong, I think prevention is necessary. But you don't pay a neurosurgeon to hand out condoms. It's a waste of resources and training to be honest.

Who is with me? =D

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[loveoforganic]

I'm MD/MPH, enjoy not serving the big picture, douche.

Kidding. Really though, haven't had that experience. We don't have a big program though.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

lol...here...we...go....again

 

[phltz]

It's hard to really compare what a neurosurgeon does to what public health people do. But yeah, given a choice between living in a society where all of the neurosurgeons were abducted by aliens, and living in a society where all the water sanitation guys were kidnapped by mole people, I'd want to keep potable water.

Doctors are going to keep having a respected, valuable, and well compensated niche for some time to come. Do you need everyone to constantly affirm that they're the most important thing since sliced bread, on top of that?

 

[MilkmanAl]

Managing health care trends and preventive medicine are socialism? No wonder this country is so ****ed.

 

[Lolscan]

Managing health care trends and preventive medicine are socialism? No wonder this country is so ****ed.

No but telling the class that that berberi is his favorite disease because it kills rich people is. And whining about how the all the "defenseless poor people need the best medical care" is.

Then saying minorities have worse health outcomes but at the same time make fun of asians.

Yeah this is what goes on at my school.

 

[Lolscan]

It's hard to really compare what a neurosurgeon does to what public health people do. But yeah, given a choice between living in a society where all of the neurosurgeons were abducted by aliens, and living in a society where all the water sanitation guys were kidnapped by mole people, I'd want to keep potable water.

Doctors are going to keep having a respected, valuable, and well compensated niche for some time to come. Do you need everyone to constantly affirm that they're the most important thing since sliced bread, on top of that?

No but I am making a point about simple economics. You don't pay garbage man 200k (although they are very important) for doing his job. It's a waste of money to have the doctor lecture the public about diet when its more effective to do it in schools.

 

[loveoforganic]

Now who's the socialist? The doctor can't choose to do whatever he wants? Should he not be paid whatever his employer feels is an acceptable wage for the services he provides?

 

[Narmerguy]

Clearly your exposure to MPH students is representative of all MPH students and the discipline as a whole.

 

[officedepot]

My thing is that I do not understand how a MPH degree will enhance one's abilities to care for patients. If you want to do research just get a straight MPH. If your goal is to work for the CDC or be in an administartion role of some kind I guess a MD/MPH is a good combo just for your CV. But otherwise it is of little use in my opinion. Residents who are MD/MPH don't even have MPH on their coats... I know a resident in obgyn who has mph who is not going to be involved with any research after she graduates next year. I just see absolutely no use for it there.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Now who's the socialist? The doctor can't choose to do whatever he wants? Should he not be paid whatever his employer feels is an acceptable wage for the services he provides?

Well played, good sir.

 

[Slack3r]

berberi is his favorite disease because it kills rich people is.

Beri-beri kills rich people?

 

[D elegans]

My thing is that I do not understand how a MPH degree will enhance one's abilities to care for patients. If you want to do research just get a straight MPH. If your goal is to work for the CDC or be in an administartion role of some kind I guess a MD/MPH is a good combo just for your CV. But otherwise it is of little use in my opinion. Residents who are MD/MPH don't even have MPH on their coats... I know a resident in obgyn who has mph who is not going to be involved with any research after she graduates next year. I just see absolutely no use for it there.

For reals

 

[loveoforganic]

My thing is that I do not understand how a MPH degree will enhance one's abilities to care for patients. If you want to do research just get a straight MPH. If your goal is to work for the CDC or be in an administartion role of some kind I guess a MD/MPH is a good combo just for your CV. But otherwise it is of little use in my opinion. Residents who are MD/MPH don't even have MPH on their coats... I know a resident in obgyn who has mph who is not going to be involved with any research after she graduates next year. I just see absolutely no use for it there.

Depends how you want to practice. I have a feeling you aren't aware though that there are subspecialties of public health (tropical medicine, behavioral and community health, epidemiology, biostats, health policy, environmental, etc. etc. etc., sure I'm missing some). Some of them tie more nicely into clinical practice than others, but most of them can tie into a career somehow.

 

[D elegans]

Depends how you want to practice. I have a feeling you aren't aware though that there are subspecialties of public health (tropical medicine, behavioral and community health, epidemiology, biostats, health policy, environmental, etc. etc. etc., sure I'm missing some). Some of them tie more nicely into clinical practice than others, but most of them can tie into a career somehow.

"Subspecialties" in the sense of more focused research, but those are not subspecialties in medicine. It's misleading to use that term here. An MPH is a great degree in its own right, but there's nothing you could do clinically that would require an MPH.

 

[phltz]

"Subspecialties" in the sense of more focused research, but those are not subspecialties in medicine. It's misleading to use that term here. An MPH is a great degree in its own right, but there's nothing you could do clinically that would require an MPH.

Didn't you see Contagion?

 

[astrocreep96]

Isn't an MPH just an excuse for people to give out medical advice without really earning the requisite degree? How soon before we have DMPH (Doctors of Masters of Public Health) walking around in the hospital in long white coats?

 

[loveoforganic]

"Subspecialties" in the sense of more focused research, but those are not subspecialties in medicine. It's misleading to use that term here. An MPH is a great degree in its own right, but there's nothing you could do clinically that would require an MPH.

No, subspecialties in the sense of very different tracks of classes that you take during the MPH - i.e. learning completely different material. Maybe "tracks" would have been a better word, but good lord, harness your fear of professional encroachment. MPH isn't a clinical degree in any way. The ability for a clinician to integrate MPH knowledge into practice still in no way makes an MPH a clinical degree.

Also, there already is a DrPH

 

[Mizoodles]

About half of all of my public health classes is just a big argument about how medical schools don't teach this, or don't teach that... All of the MPHers at my school believe they know what is the best way to teach clinical medicine.

 

[Isoprop]

Preventive medicine is a specialty that incorporates an MPH into its residency. I'm actually interested.

 

[beakerdan]

I think it's stupid. I hate it when these liberal academics jam socialism down my throat in the population and behaviors class. It's particularly bad at my school because our MD/MPH program. All day you have MPH students ranting about how much acute care sucks and prevention rocks. Don't get me wrong, I think prevention is necessary. But you don't pay a neurosurgeon to hand out condoms. It's a waste of resources and training to be honest.

Who is with me? =D

How about this... instead of complaining about the public health discussions at your school, you respond like this:
"Thanks to all of the people who go into public health/prevention, because that lets me be a neurosurgeon."

 

[startswithb]

Isn't an MPH just an excuse for people to give out medical advice without really earning the requisite degree? How soon before we have DMPH (Doctors of Masters of Public Health) walking around in the hospital in long white coats?

Funny because we just had a lecture yesterday by a nurse practitioner who is earning her doctorate in public health...

 

[VoiceofReason]

I think it's stupid. I hate it when these liberal academics jam socialism down my throat in the population and behaviors class. It's particularly bad at my school because our MD/MPH program. All day you have MPH students ranting about how much acute care sucks and prevention rocks. Don't get me wrong, I think prevention is necessary. But you don't pay a neurosurgeon to hand out condoms. It's a waste of resources and training to be honest.

Who is with me? =D

i dont think that this is whats happening since you don't seem all that perceptive but socialism should be rammed down everyone's throats because its the correct form of government

 

[jdh71]

I think it's stupid. I hate it when these liberal academics jam socialism down my throat in the population and behaviors class. It's particularly bad at my school because our MD/MPH program. All day you have MPH students ranting about how much acute care sucks and prevention rocks. Don't get me wrong, I think prevention is necessary. But you don't pay a neurosurgeon to hand out condoms. It's a waste of resources and training to be honest.

Who is with me? =D

Preventive "medicine" is also not all it's cracked up to be either. Every time we look at cancer screening we seem to back an even further step away. It's usually not cost effective over-all for instance. Hell, they've even backed away from a yearly physical for people without any current problems, and most are now recommending every three years.

As someone who has finished a primary care specialty, I can tell you that a pinch of prevention for people with already establsihed chronic disease(s) goes a long way. If you've already got CAD, DM2, HTN, and COPD, coming to see your PCP will likely keep you out of the hospital on the regular.

But even that's not the real problem in this country. The real problem is cultural and it has everything to do with lifestyle. Too many of us eat too much, drink too much, smoke too much, and don't exercise enough. None of that requires you go see a doctor for preventive or otherwise care. Until society decides it doesn't want to live healthier than all of the preventive care in the world won't really help, not where it matters, which is preventing disease in the first place.

EDIT: And that's not a political statement.

 

[astrocreep96]

Funny because we just had a lecture yesterday by a nurse practitioner who is earning her doctorate in public health...

I was being sarcastic, but that is awesome. I hate her already, possibly more so than the DNP dolts.

 

[michaelrack]

Now who's the socialist? The doctor can't choose to do whatever he wants? Should he not be paid whatever his employer feels is an acceptable wage for the services he provides?

Agree 100%. I am my own employer. I think that I, as the doctor, deserve 1 million per year. Unfortunately, I, as the employer, can not afford to pay this amount

 

[DoctwoB]

Agree with JDH. Stopping smoking, working out, eating right, etc are extremely important, but you don't need a doctor to tell you do it.

 

[loveoforganic]

Agree 100%. I am my own employer. I think that I, as the doctor, deserve 1 million per year. Unfortunately, I, as the employer, can not afford to pay this amount

Unionize! Show that bastard who runs the show

 

[Kyrillex]

Preventive "medicine" is also not all it's cracked up to be either. Every time we look at cancer screening we seem to back an even further step away. It's usually not cost effective over-all for instance. Hell, they've even backed away from a yearly physical for people without any current problems, and most are now recommending every three years.


EDIT: And that's not a political statement.

right, b/c vaccines (which are a major part of preventive medicine) aren't all that useful and causes autism. (who are you, jenny mccartney?)

and you make it sound like, "real" medicine doesn't undergo reviews and studies where drugs are constantly being replaced, reused, taken out of the market altogether. medicine is dynamic and changes all the time, ever heard of vioxx?

 

[ScubaStarved]

Clearly your exposure to MPH students is representative of all MPH students and the discipline as a whole.

I've got no idea what is going on in this thread.

I'm no expert on the matter, but it has been my understanding that an MPH degree equips one to critically evaluate and design research with the ultimate goal of making recommendations and advancing policy that improves a population's health, with at least one eye to cost-effectiveness. So why the rants about preventive measures that have not proved cost-effective under RCT scrutiny? Who do you think those studies studies were designed by...? Could it have been someone whose academic interests include screening, health policy, and cost-effectiveness of interventions? Gonna give you just a minute to think about that one. . .

Though if the OP is of the neurosurg persuasion, I can imagine why he/she may be incensed by outcomes and cost-effectiveness research. (Just Saiyan. No hate to real neurosurgeons. Please be nice to me.)

 

[jdh71]

right, b/c vaccines (which are a major part of preventive medicine) aren't all that useful and causes autism. (who are you, jenny mccartney?)

and you make it sound like, "real" medicine doesn't undergo reviews and studies where drugs are constantly being replaced, reused, taken out of the market altogether. medicine is dynamic and changes all the time, ever heard of vioxx?

Based on your response you clearly have no clue what I'm talking about here.

I might suggest trying to re-read what was said and also what was not said, all the while employing an important skill known as "reading comprehension" before knee-jerk posting nonsense and strawmen. This is also a skill that will help you in real life.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Sweet Jesus, do we really have to have ANOTHER thread devolve into "straw man" and "reading comprehension" remarks?

 

[astrocreep96]

Sweet Jesus, do we really have to have ANOTHER thread devolve into "straw man" and "reading comprehension" remarks?

The answer should be obvious at this point.

 

[jdh71]

Sweet Jesus, do we really have to have ANOTHER thread devolve into "straw man" and "reading comprehension" remarks?

Well, if there wasn't poor reading comprehension and a straw man argument, then it wouldn't have been pointed out.

I didn't start the unpleasantness.

Perhaps you should police the responses of your medical student flock a little better?

 

[MilkmanAl]

Or you could not insist on arguing with them constantly. That might help, too.

 

[TheBlend]

Beri-beri kills rich people?

Maybe he meant "Burberry"

 

[jdh71]

Or you could not insist on arguing with them constantly. That might help, too.

Constantly?

Go back and look at who started things. I merely pointed out that the nasty post was nonsense and delineated why. I don't think that makes me the bad guy here.

But I get it. You don't like me. Noted.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

Lol. This is a "broken record" thread. For so many reasons.

 

[Rendar5]

Or you could not insist on arguing with them constantly. That might help, too.

regardless of what happened in the other thread, that is obviously not what just happened here. He made a plain as day statement about the current limits of preventative medicine, and some one just jumped down his throat for saying vaccines cause autism (my response "WTF?! Where did that even come from") and then tried to educate him that medicine is a dynamic process (my response "Didn't jdh just say that it was a dynamic process" what does vioxx have to do with preventative medicine...")

That's like me asking the nurse to give fluids to my hemorrhagic shock patient, bleeding from the traumatic amputation, and someone else in the room jumping down my throat for not considering cardiogenic shock and then trying to educate me on the need for fluid/blood boluses for my patient.

 

[jdh71]

Lol. This is a "broken record" thread. For so many reasons.

Nice contribution. It's easy to see how it was helpful and needed here.

You also started the nasty exchange in the other thread. Though I notice I got put in SDN jail for it. Probably shouldn't have escalted the excahnge and told you to eff your mom, but you drew first blood. What trouble did you get into?

 

[Jolie South]

Imma go ahead and shut this down now. I don't think there are any useful comments here.

Let's remember that disagreeing is ok. Personal attacks are not.