People who we know can't make it

[Conflagration]

She came to the tutoring sessions but didnt read and study on her own. Since this was outside of class I guess she took it as sufficient. She also is on facebook during lectures but I sit at the back of the class and notice everyone is, so that might not mean anything. It was only the first test and Im sure many ppl got a wake up call to get serious, so we'll see what happens.

I'm so glad I can read most of the posts here and make a somewhat educated decision as to what I want to do when I'm older.

The only thing that I'm certain of is thank God I'm a senior in high school and I got a few years to putz around. xD

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[Doctor246853]

What is the point of this thread? OP, do you feel better? You're smarter than some people.

I pretty much got straight Cs the first 3 years of college. Guess what, I'm a doctor.

Congrats on your success but I dont think the op was saying "everyone" who get C's will not be a doctor. Of course people get into medical school who have made b's, c's, d's and f's. Why is everyone freaking out?

 

[Doctor246853]

are you URM?

Thats cold bra.

 

[Smachadams]

What is the point of this thread? OP, do you feel better? You're smarter than some people.

I pretty much got straight Cs the first 3 years of college. Guess what, I'm a doctor.

Im also "dumber" than alot...trust me, looking through some of these threads here at SDN is like eating a big piece of humble pie...

If I see another "I got a 38T and Im not sure if I'll get into med school" thread, I'll die There's always bigger fish out there than you..

How did you turn your situation around? Sadly I pretty much slacked the first years of undergrad and though my grades didn't show it that much, I had to learn alot of material over come MCAT time, and surely enough despite the preparation, it kicked my ass.. so grades don't always show how good of a student you are, but the MCAT almost always does.

 

[Frazier]

Im also "dumber" than alot...trust me, looking through some of these threads here at SDN is like eating a big piece of humble pie...

For some reason I would have bet big money that you were going to say a big "poop hotdog" instead of "piece of humble pie".

Such is life's menu at SDN: poop hotdog entrées [hot out the oven] and humble pie for dessert.

 

[gettheleadout]

Yes. It's not that difficult to get a 20 on the MCAT, and I imagine that a large proportion of test takers who score that low didn't spend much time studying, didn't take it seriously, or underestimated the difficulty of the test/overestimated their own abilities. Do you really think that someone who has taken the AAMC/Kaplan/whatever full lengths and consistently scored <20 would go ahead and proceed with the actual exam?

tl;dr - If you slave over review books for 3 months, take practice tests and only get a 19, you have problems.

Oh, I was thinking more of people whose capability maxes out before a decent MCAT score is achieved.

 

[willen101383]

Hey OP...did it ever occur to you that maybe some of those people are bio majors/pre med and really arent ready to be performing at an "A level?" Or perhaps they have something going on with their family etc? Not because they arent as "intelligent" as you think you are?

I love posting myself as an example when I see these threads. I worked as hard as I could in undergrad and graduated with a 2.45. My mom was having a rough time with breast cancer and frankly I wasnt mature enough to do well. You would probably include me as one of these people in your little ego stroking thread. But then my mom got better, I grew up and graduated a science based masters with a 3.78, and went on to be in the top 30-40 percent of my medical school class.

So maybe dig a little deeper..because things a little deeper may not be as they seem on the surface.

Also stop comparing yourself to others and worry about yourself. If someone really cant hang because they arent intelligent enough, they will figure it out soon enough. They dont need you to talk about them behind their back in a SDN thread. Geez.

 

[southerngrl]

are you URM?

This is probaly about THE most stupid comment I've heard on in here in a while. So he made some C's and that makes him an URM??? You suck!!!

 

[BirdIsTheWord]

are you URM?

I'm a URM. Are you suggesting something? Yes, it is shown that URMs with lower stats get in more than non-URMs with the same stats. Whats your point?

 

[MrBird]

I'm a URM. Are you suggesting something? Yes, it is shown that URMs with lower stats get in more than non-URMs with the same stats. Whats your point?

I think he's saying that URMs are not as intelligent or do as well academically as non-URMs. There.

man... you don't even have the balls to just come out and call him racist.

 

[gettheleadout]

I think he's saying that URMs are not as intelligent or do as well academically as non-URMs. There.

man... you don't even have the balls to just come out and call him racist.

How does a comment like this help anything?

 

[Morsetlis]

How does a thread like this help anything?

 

[BirdIsTheWord]

I think he's saying that URMs are not as intelligent or do as well academically as non-URMs. There.

man... you don't even have the balls to just come out and call him racist.

Why would I call him racist if I don't think he is? And how could you deduce that he is saying that URMs are not as intelligent or do well academically?

All he said after the other poster stated he made average scores all through most of his undergrad was "Are you URM". Probably implying that URMs have it easier getting in that non-URMs.


Sheesh

 

[Smachadams]

How does a thread like this help anything?

I think the OP has come to realize this

 

[Instatewaiter]

What is the point of this thread? OP, do you feel better? You're smarter than some people.

I pretty much got straight Cs the first 3 years of college. Guess what, I'm a doctor.

are you URM?

No I am not a URM. I am a white male (at least by AAMC standards). After I finished med school I got into a small community hospital called JHH.

Bet your Typical Indian parents are jealous.

 

[ucsfstudents]

To OP, I wouldn't rule anyone out. Those same people can actually succeed in medicine.

 

[NeuroChris]

They're out there. They are theoretically about as common as people who break 31 on the first try.

haha ill say, my brother broke a 41 on the first try.. talk about luck

 

[seminolepremed]

I believe that it take some baseline intelligence to be a doc. Yes, we all have to study to some extent ... but after taking the bio prereqs one should at least be able to get >50% on a molec bio... specially since a lot of bio becomes common sense after a while. If you get C's in your pre-reqs and you're trying you should start questioning your career choice. I basically got straight A's in my prereqs and am SEVERELY struggling in physical chemistry my senior year.... it kinda makes me feel like '**** because I've never gotten below the average in an exam when studying. Whatever, maybe I've venting but point is we all have to have baseline intelligence ... after all we're going to be rewarded for thinking, not memorizing. Let's face it, the prereqs are 80% memorization. This should be the easy part.

I do think you can get under a 20 on the MCAT ... I got an 18 on my first practice exam without knowing the format of the test or anything about it and I believe I know my science very well. It happens.

It sucks to say it but at some point you can no longer rely on intelligence and actually have to open a damn book and study... this is where those who are not as intelligent as you can surpass you.

I actually don't know anyone that is pre-med that I truly believe can make it. I am VERY apprehensive about actually being accepted this year, yet these student feel that with a 3.0 and Cs on everything some medical school in the US will take them... a lot of them are completely delusional. But that's not my problem.

Instead of focusing on those who are not succeeding we should observe those doing better than us. There is where we can actually become better. LOOK UP, don't look down to stroke your ego.

 

[QQm]

I'm in medical school, and from the sheer amount of material to the quality of competition, I'm not even sure I can make it.

OP, show some humility.

 

[GetSexyRightNow]

Agree with kpcrew2oo2 and NN. SMH - This thread is such an epic fail. Perfect example of premed snobbery.

I have seen many people turn it around from being very mediocre students to stellar. It just comes down to your attitude and work ethic. As NN said, sometimes these people have a disconnect between what they want and the work they're willing to put in. Once the connection is made, they're golden.

 

[Slack3r]

I got into a small community hospital called JHH.

Bet your Typical Indian parents are jealous.

 

[balletomane]

What type of psychic powers or inside info. do you possess where you can possibly know these friends will never make it? Do share! Because honestly OP, your original post described me to a T and I'd really like to know if I should just give up while I'm ahead.

You shouldn't be so condescending towards others. If medicine is their dream, that has nothing to do with you. They're probably well aware that it is a long shot for them but it won't kill them to try.

^Also this.

 

[Smachadams]

What type of psychic powers or inside info. do you possess where you can possibly know these friends will never make it? Do share!

Love the passive-aggressiveness bro

Obviously this is a touchy subject for SDN, and if nobody has ever thought like me then cool, I'm not as optimistic about everything in life..not everybody can make it..maybe I flunk out of medschool and live with my parents forever, such is life.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Speaking of can't make it, this guy yesterday said he dreamt about being in med school. The next day he got his test back with a 66% after a 13 point curve. This was Biology II.

 

[Smachadams]

Speaking of can't make it, this guy yesterday said he dreamt about being in med school. The next day he got his test back with a 66% after a 13 point curve. This was Biology II.

First day of classes of my bachelors we went through the class and said what we wanted to do.. (I come from a small school....40 people a class).. Almost everybody in bio wanted to study medicine! Less than 1/4 of us are left now in out last year...an interesting tidbit is the people who wanted to study dentistry, pharmacy and whatnot, usually were able to go the distance..

 

[CodeBlu]

First day of classes of my bachelors we went through the class and said what we wanted to do.. (I come from a small school....40 people a class).. Almost everybody in bio wanted to study medicine! Less than 1/4 of us are left now in out last year...an interesting tidbit is the people who wanted to study dentistry, pharmacy and whatnot, usually were able to go the distance..

Oh look, it's this depressing thread. I feel like I should comment on this.

Someone with subpar stats for MD schools, like 3.0-3.3 cGPA and borderline competitive MCAT, 27-29... will receive a fair amount of rejection.

Yet, this person with a 3.3ish GPA, and good ECs, and a decent DAT/PCAT/OAT can go on to those professional schools most likely.

Not saying that it's easier to get in, but the competition is less stiff, and there is a diminished number of applicants.

Proportionally, the number of schools available for these programs is lower.



I will give an example of a fictitious state to make my point clear.

XYZ State has 10 medical schools and 2 dental schools.

15,000 applications to those medical schools with 100 spots each. Makes for 1 spot in 15 applicants.

3000 dental school applications for this state, and 150 spots at each. Makes for 1 spot per 10 applicants.

My numbers are extremely rounded, but you get the picture... there's just less people applying for the other professional schools.


Everybody wants to be a doctor until Orgo I or II (mostly II), and the MCAT come along. Then they funnel off into other programs. I remember someone's sig around here said.. a 27 MCAT and a 3.0 GPA will make an osteopathic believer out of anyone. Couldn't be truer.

 

[Smachadams]

Oh look, it's this depressing thread. I feel like I should comment on this.

Someone with subpar stats for MD schools, like 3.0-3.3 cGPA and borderline competitive MCAT, 27-29... will receive a fair amount of rejection.

Yet, this person with a 3.3ish GPA, and good ECs, and a decent DAT/PCAT/OAT can go on to those professional schools most likely.

Not saying that it's easier to get in, but the competition is less stiff, and there is a diminished number of applicants.

Proportionally, the number of schools available for these programs is lower.



I will give an example of a fictitious state to make my point clear.

XYZ State has 10 medical schools and 2 dental schools.

15,000 applications to those medical schools with 100 spots each. Makes for 1 spot in 15 applicants.

3000 dental school applications for this state, and 150 spots at each. Makes for 1 spot per 10 applicants.

My numbers are extremely rounded, but you get the picture... there's just less people applying for the other professional schools.


Everybody wants to be a doctor until Orgo I or II (mostly II), and the MCAT come along. Then they funnel off into other programs. I remember someone's sig around here said.. a 27 MCAT and a 3.0 GPA will make an osteopathic believer out of anyone. Couldn't be truer.

I really have no idea what the reqs are to be a competitive applicant at those kind of schools, but its good to know somewhat, although from my experience, they are still very good students. I would probably say that since medicine is such an idealized profession, more people go into it without knowing what they're getting into (Which was kind of what I was like) and the people in pharmacy and dentistry usually know more about their respective fields and are a little more motivated as a result.

 

[CodeBlu]

I really have no idea what the reqs are to be a competitive applicant at those kind of schools, but its good to know somewhat, although from my experience, they are still very good students. I would probably say that since medicine is such an idealized profession, more people go into it without knowing what they're getting into (Which was kind of what I was like) and the people in pharmacy and dentistry usually know more about their respective fields and are a little more motivated as a result.

Getting into pharm or dental school is hard. Just not as hard as MD school.

I know a few people that are seniors in college that still don't understand medicine, and are saying they want to be a doctor. Yet, they have never volunteered in a hospital, or had any relevant health care exposure past Grey's Anatomy.

It's a sad fact. But some of these people will get 3.9s and 35s and manage to get into a school.

 

[Guy Montag]

I know a few people that are seniors in college that still don't understand medicine, and are saying they want to be a doctor. Yet, they have never volunteered in a hospital, or had any relevant health care exposure past Grey's Anatomy.

It's a sad fact. But some of these people will get 3.9s and 35s and manage to get into a school.

They are going into the family business .

 

[Smachadams]

Getting into pharm or dental school is hard. Just not as hard as MD school.

I know a few people that are seniors in college that still don't understand medicine, and are saying they want to be a doctor. Yet, they have never volunteered in a hospital, or had any relevant health care exposure past Grey's Anatomy.

It's a sad fact. But some of these people will get 3.9s and 35s and manage to get into a school.

Actually as long as these people understand that medicine is a profession of service to others..and I mean really understand.. I dont have a problem with it as much as other people would.. Chances are they worked hard for those grades and they deserve to be there...and as far as the academic side goes, most likely they'll make good doctors.

Going into medicine because daddy wants me to, does not count

 

[CodeBlu]

Actually as long as these people understand that medicine is a profession of service to others..and I mean really understand.. I dont have a problem with it as much as other people would.. Chances are they worked hard for those grades and they deserve to be there...and as far as the academic side goes, most likely they'll make good doctors.

Going into medicine because daddy wants me to, does not count

The question is... will they actually practice medicine? Lots of people go to MD school, realize they hate it, and then do consulting.

There's A LOT more that goes into medicine than just serving others. You're essentially giving up the best years of your life because you love science and the art and practice of medicine so much, that you cannot see yourself doing ANYTHING else.

 

[Smachadams]

The question is... will they actually practice medicine? Lots of people go to MD school, realize they hate it, and then do consulting.

There's A LOT more that goes into medicine than just serving others. You're essentially giving up the best years of your life because you love science and the art and practice of medicine so much, that you cannot see yourself doing ANYTHING else.

I don't know what people who leave for consulting actually do at those jobs actually, nor I know how many leave to do it...

But I will concede that point to you Lol

 

[Ormm]

What type of psychic powers or inside info. do you possess where you can possibly know these friends will never make it? Do share! Because honestly OP, your original post described me to a T and I'd really like to know if I should just give up while I'm ahead. .

I'm thinking of giving up as well b/c I once didn't get an A in a class

 

[Cloud 9]

Alright I didn't read all the posts but you all are insane if you think not breaking a 19 on the MCAT means you can't hack medical school. There are plenty of IMGs practicing right now, probably next door to your house, who probably cannot score a 19. Not because they're dumb but because most of what the MCAT tests, aka physics and chemistry and even verbal to a degree, has nothing to do with medicine.

 

[Frazier]

Alright I didn't read all the posts but you all are insane if you think not breaking a 19 on the MCAT means you can't hack medical school. There are plenty of IMGs practicing right now, probably next door to your house, who probably cannot score a 19. Not because they're dumb but because most of what the MCAT tests, aka physics and chemistry and even verbal to a degree, has nothing to do with medicine.

I'd be willing to bet that the reason why these IMGs that [hypothetically] can't score a 19 on the mcat is vastly different than why Joe-College-Fratman can't score a 19...

I will give a hint: for one population it is a "lack of language mastery" for the other it is a "lack of intelligence" (whether that intellectual drought manifests via the incapacity to dominate the material, or being too simple-minded to understand the sheer importance of busting your ass to prepare for the exam).

...and with that said, if the given person can't score a freaking 19 on the mcat - whether due to language barriers or cerebral impotency, I wouldn't want them to be my physician.

 

[NickNaylor]

Alright I didn't read all the posts but you all are insane if you think not breaking a 19 on the MCAT means you can't hack medical school. There are plenty of IMGs practicing right now, probably next door to your house, who probably cannot score a 19. Not because they're dumb but because most of what the MCAT tests, aka physics and chemistry and even verbal to a degree, has nothing to do with medicine.

Good thing the MCAT has very little to do with your clinical abilities and clinical knowledge. And good thing we don't have any sort of certification and/or licensing system here in the US.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Everybody wants to be a doctor until Orgo I or II (mostly II), and the MCAT come along. Then they funnel off into other programs. I remember someone's sig around here said.. a 27 MCAT and a 3.0 GPA will make an osteopathic believer out of anyone. Couldn't be truer.

I don't mind Osteo though. I go to NSU and they have a School of Osteo Med and it's actually a really nice facility. I'm not trying to get into a super competitive residency anyways, and I really wouldn't want to reapply if I get rejected from all MD school, so that school would probably be one of my top choices.

 

[dbeast]

Good thing the MCAT has very little to do with your clinical abilities and clinical knowledge. And good thing we don't have any sort of certification and/or licensing system here in the US.

Ohhh is this one of those "choose which statement is false" questions? I think the second sentence is the false one. MCAT verbal reasoning ftw.

 

[thesauce]

The question is... will they actually practice medicine? Lots of people go to MD school, realize they hate it, and then do consulting.

While I agree this happens, it's actually pretty uncommon. And in the vast majority of cases, it's done on a part-time basis.

 

[FSUseminoleEM1]

I believe that it take some baseline intelligence to be a doc. Yes, we all have to study to some extent ... but after taking the bio prereqs one should at least be able to get >50% on a molec bio... specially since a lot of bio becomes common sense after a while. If you get C's in your pre-reqs and you're trying you should start questioning your career choice. I basically got straight A's in my prereqs and am SEVERELY struggling in physical chemistry my senior year.... it kinda makes me feel like '**** because I've never gotten below the average in an exam when studying. Whatever, maybe I've venting but point is we all have to have baseline intelligence ... after all we're going to be rewarded for thinking, not memorizing. Let's face it, the prereqs are 80% memorization. This should be the easy part.

I do think you can get under a 20 on the MCAT ... I got an 18 on my first practice exam without knowing the format of the test or anything about it and I believe I know my science very well. It happens.

It sucks to say it but at some point you can no longer rely on intelligence and actually have to open a damn book and study... this is where those who are not as intelligent as you can surpass you.

I actually don't know anyone that is pre-med that I truly believe can make it. I am VERY apprehensive about actually being accepted this year, yet these student feel that with a 3.0 and Cs on everything some medical school in the US will take them... a lot of them are completely delusional. But that's not my problem.

Instead of focusing on those who are not succeeding we should observe those doing better than us. There is where we can actually become better. LOOK UP, don't look down to stroke your ego.

1) There is a 50% chance you're in my P-Chem class.
2) I made it.

 

[LoveBuffer]

Just because you struggled in college doesn't mean you're not smart. And it doesn't meant you won't make a great doctor.

 

[shinbeats]

are you URM?

That was such a typical question from a typical Indian.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Pretty much speaking the premeds I know who have low gpas are the ones who can't play the game right. They take extremely heavy loads and listen religiously to their premed advisers and seek out absurdly hard majors. The fact is that ability to do well in the prereqs and your classes is part of the story and so is strategically choosing your classes and major. Most premeds really miss out on that latter part.

 

[amateur obgyn]

Pretty much speaking the premeds I know who have low gpas are the ones who can't play the game right. They take extremely heavy loads and listen religiously to their premed advisers and seek out absurdly hard majors. The fact is that ability to do well in the prereqs and your classes is part of the story and so is strategically choosing your classes and major. Most premeds really miss out on that latter part.

Great observation

 

[DendWrite]

You shouldn't be so condescending towards others. If medicine is their dream, that has nothing to do with you. They're probably well aware that it is a long shot for them but it won't kill them to try.

QFT...absolutely. This thread makes no sense to me. Physicians are supposed to be compassionate. These people who "can't make it," as you say, should NOT be any competition at all for all of you academic elites (and if you find yourself having to bash them or reinforce this point to yourself by making a thread about it on SDN, perhaps you are not as elite as you might think).

 

[kautionwirez]

Or maybe he's a gunner in disguise who sabotages everybody he tutors and saves the good stuff for himself. Strong work, strong work.

+1

One of the few common sense statements in this thread.

I'm convinced that a majority of people in college could handle medical school if they really dedicated themselves to it. The problem is that they either don't want to commit to the time and work involved OR, in the case of the people we're discussing, they may not understand just how high the bar is set in order to be successful in the application process. Some people are stuck in this confusing paradox where they "know" they want to be a physician and yet are unwilling to put forth the effort necessary to do well. That's probably the worst situation to be in.

+1

Most people in college that want to go to medical school can get in, and the formula is called HARD WORK. And people learn from their failures.

What is the point of this thread? OP, do you feel better? You're smarter than some people.

I pretty much got straight Cs the first 3 years of college. Guess what, I'm a doctor.

An example of a person that did some HARD WORK.

You may be surprised. We had a number of students fail out of one of the weeder ChemE courses that I took. At least 2 of them went onto med school and one scored much higher on the MCAT than I did.

Second example.

 

[flodhi1]

OP you're not the messiah for humanity that has to run around telling others if they can make it into medical school or not. Just stick to your own application/chances and not others.

 

[roseglass6370]

Sometimes I get nervous and think that maybe I am "one of those people" who can't admit that they aren't good enough for medicine but keep on trucking anyway... Kinda scares me...

(For the record: 3.7-something, 5+ years clinical experience, research, leadership, volunteering...MCAT in April. I still honestly freak out about this though. Secretly I think most pre-meds do...)

 

[Sweetpea MD]

Hey OP...did it ever occur to you that maybe some of those people are bio majors/pre med and really arent ready to be performing at an "A level?" Or perhaps they have something going on with their family etc? Not because they arent as "intelligent" as you think you are?

I love posting myself as an example when I see these threads. I worked as hard as I could in undergrad and graduated with a 2.45. My mom was having a rough time with breast cancer and frankly I wasnt mature enough to do well. You would probably include me as one of these people in your little ego stroking thread. But then my mom got better, I grew up and graduated a science based masters with a 3.78, and went on to be in the top 30-40 percent of my medical school class.

So maybe dig a little deeper..because things a little deeper may not be as they seem on the surface.

Also stop comparing yourself to others and worry about yourself. If someone really cant hang because they arent intelligent enough, they will figure it out soon enough. They dont need you to talk about them behind their back in a SDN thread. Geez.

This answer is great. what's the point of worrying about what other people are doing or HOW they are doing? If you spend your time worrying about this, you won't make it through med school. Also, OP, your post lacks maturity, which will hopefully be overcome by the start of an MD program. You never know why someone may be struggling, and it's not fair to assume they just "can't make it." Are you on any admissions committees? Clearly not. So you have no idea what will become of these students or why they are struggling to begin with. For instance, one of my good friends didn't do so great in college because his dad died of cancer and he was left to support his mom and younger siblings. His mom didn't speak English so she couldn't get a job that would support her family. In order to help, he worked full time while also studying full time. He had a horrible GPA but it's no wonder. After college he took some time off and took some more science classes. His mom was back on her feet and had a job at that point, so he pulled his grades up. And NO, he is not actually considered a URM because he is not black, hispanic, or native american. PS: he is now in medical school and will make a wonderful and compassionate physician. Please get off your high horse and let people live their own lives. You may try to humble yourself by saying "I'm average," or blah blah, whatever you said once people gave you a hard time, but your original post shows how much you judge others.

 

[JLum]

are you URM?

ROFL! Made my day!