Perfectionism in Undergrad

[krazzydhoom]

Hi Everyone, I wanted to take a moment to talk about perfectionism in undergrad.

For me, I really struggle with the concept if perfectionism when it comes to my education because it feels like something that I should and can control... to some extent. It gets to the point where even if I score a really good grade on an exam, like a 97%, I will focus on what I have missed instead. I don't like rewarding myself for grades and I feel like I can tell the amount of pressure I put on myself.

The reason I bring this up is this summer I am taking physics 2.. which is really hard for me for some reason. I am going into my third year of college and I have a 4.0 currently, but I believe I will get an A- in this class. I am not saying this to show off or get attention, but I am trying to ask if anyone else struggles with this perfection. I know people say you don't need perfect grades to get into med school, but how do I allow myself to be okay with not being "perfect" in school? I don't know how to tell myself that it is fine to not have straight A's and just thinking about losing my "perfect" grades has left me into countless sleepless nights and wondering what's next.

This is not meant to be dramatic or anything. It is a serious question that I am not sure I can tackle and would love to get feedback from others. I am trying to force myself out of this mindset but it is definitely easier said than done.

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[Sky138]

Try making friends with laid-back people, pick up some poor habits, perhaps try yoga. If you’re struggling with the idea of getting an A-, chances are even if your grades drop a bit, that might not be a bad thing. I’d hate to see you get into med school not realizing that it’s perfectly ok to be imperfect.

 

[DokterMom]

Perfection is a lousy goal. It's unattainable, so by definition, you will always fall short. Knowing you'll fall short can be very demoralizing and cause you to avoid trying new things or taking risks.

Strive for excellence and throw the quest for perfection out the window.

 

[LizzyM]

Lose your 4.0 as soon as possible. One A- will show that you are human.

 

[deleted895369]

Losing my 4.0 was one of the most liberating things that happened in my academic career

 

[Goro]

I would just go into your student services office and see if they can direct you to somebody who can help you.

Perfectionism is something that admissions committees try to weed out.

And by the way, a 4.0 GPA is like virginity. There comes a time that everyone should lose it.

Grades below an A are not a black mark on your character

 

[M&L]

LIFE IS NOT WHAT YOU DO. LIFE IF HOW YOU FEEL WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT. .... read it several times while it sinks in.

1) accept that you will NEVER know everything in medicine. Just focus on knowing ENOUGH.
2) if you dont get rid of this perfectionist thing you will drive yourself crazy, your classmates, your professors, your future colleagues, and potentially jeopardize the health of your patients. It is serious. You need to change that. I suggest trying listening to podcasts on the topics, read a book on it, talk to a friend, even go to a therapist if you have to.... I have known people who were like this, and they ended up with severe anxiety and depression.

plus medical school tends to magnify every single psychological issue you had before, so if you dont address it prior, it WILL become worse. You will go crazy.

if you are looking for practical approaches try this:
1)take a piece of paper, make two columns. In the left column write down (in bullet point format) bad destructive attitudes you are trying to address, in the right, - how you are going to replace it. For example. In the left column: "master material from chapter 2", then CROSS IT OUT with red marker. on the right write: "Make a list of specific MAIN objectives and go through them". On the left column write "focus on learning everything for the classes", CROSS IT OUT. In the right one replace with "focus on being happy and grateful when i wake up and when i go to bed".

2). on sunday make a plan for the next week. Write down ONE THING (a big thing) you want to accomplish that week that would make you feel successful. JUST ONE THING. for example, it could be abstract for your research project, stuff like this. For every day, write down ONE THING from that big thing that you need to accomplish that day . Just one. And prioritize it. It might help you feel more accomplished and relaxed. Now you evaluate your success through your grades. this is wrong. This way you will evaluate your success through things you accomplish and complete. This way, when your grades drop, your confidence wont.

and last thing, - i definitely had to do it in medical school a bit. My grades were not nearly as amazing, but i was (and still am) way too critical of myself. IN medical school i have to keep telling myself :"i am not studying for the grades or for the boards. I am studying for this patient. " Sometimes i actually imagine a patient, and pretend that i need to learn this to help him. I know it sounds silly, but it helps me shift my focus.

So, before i go to bed, i list 3 things that i did well that day, - quality things. Not how much i read, or something like that, but things like "i called my mom and took my time teaching her a few recipes", or "i went and fed a homeless guy with homemade bread i made", or "i ate healthy".

 

[Lifeblood_20]

We are all imperfect. Imperfections make us different and interesting. Imperfections motivate us to continue learning through life. Imperfections drive progress and change.

 

[Morc]

All you can do is your best. Remember that and everything else will work itself out!

 

[M&L]

We are all imperfect. Imperfections make us different and interesting. Imperfections motivate us to continue learning through life. Imperfections drive progress and change.

definitely..... Not sure mine makes me "interesting" but definitely "different"... For example, during white coat ceremony i was chasing a cockroach (one of those huge ones that live in water pipes)... i was on my knees, in a skirt, trying to catch him.... I know it is silly, but he looked so scared, running around... So i caught him with my bare hands, and took him outside of the building.... Yep, thats how my classmates met me. hahahha. (i have only 2 friends now. hahha). when i study micro i weirdly find myself voting for bacteria..... i have a horrible handwriting. I am horrible at remember things from audio perception alone, but show me a written version and i will remember most of it from just reading it. I cannot parallel park. i have every single phone ive ever had (they are in this pretty box, stored on a shelf). oh, i can drive super fast, i can stay up for 36 hours, and i tried peanut butter and jelly sandwich for the first time just about a year ago )))

so, yeah. Try to get to know yourself. THere HAS to be more about you than just school, and studying. What make your SPECIAL? DIfferent?

 

[deleted889094]

If you're getting a 4.0 you're probably missing out on other uses for your time.

In med school I have a rule that if I get below 80% on a test I need to study more, but if I get above 90% I have to relax things a bit.

Being an excellent student is not just about getting good grades. It's about building a sustainable lifestyle that will allow you to keep learning and enjoy it. It's efficiency.

If you want to be a perfectionist, be an artist or a musician. It'll be higher yield for your time.

 

[eigen]

Lose your 4.0 as soon as possible. One A- will show that you are human.

If you're getting a 4.0 you're probably missing out on other uses for your time.

Just adding: this doesn't mean that you should start stressing out if you have a 4.0 and purposefully trying to get a lower grade to knock it down. I do see advice occasionally trend a bit too much to the "4.0's are bad" territory. It may mean someone is spending too much time studying, it may mean they aren't taking challenging enough classes, but it may also just mean they're an excellent student.

Think of it like looks. You don't need to look perfect all the time, but worrying that you look too good and purposefully making your hair look "purposefully messed up" is an additional waste of time and energy.

What it means is that you should not be primarily focused on grades: focus on learning the material and doing well, and good grades will come from that. Similarly, if you get knocked down by a class, don't focus on it: focus instead on coming back and learning from the experience.

 

[Tyrese]

Just finished 2nd year, going into 3rd with 4.0 still (Biomedical engineering). I've just been going with the flow thus far and have not really thought about perfection or maintaining it. I just performed well in my classes. But if I were to get an A- or two sometime later, I wouldn't care. Even if I finish undergrad with 4.0, I still wouldn't care.

To me, the experience and knowledge gained is more important than the grade at the end. Of course, it's important to still do well!

 

[deleted1041221]

My two cents: I have also struggled with this a lot, but as others have mentioned, once you lose your 4.0 you kinda get a whole new perspective on things and you realize that absolute perfection isn't necessary (or realistic). I have a lot of peace with this now, but my younger self would have had a hard time accepting it.
And I think the humility you can gain from being less-than-perfect is a crucial trait to acquire before medical school. There will be times when you won't grasp a concept, when you need to ask for help, when the resident/attending asks you a question and you don't know the answer, and even someday you might make the wrong decision for a patient. And, despite countless years of training and studying, there are problems in medicine that even the most competent physician does not know how to solve. All of these things demand humility, and undergrad is a great place to work on that. I'm certainly not saying that you're not currently a humble person -- only that "failure"/having to accept less than perfect is a good exercise in building up mental toughness for later in life. Wishing you the best!

 

[krazzydhoom]

LIFE IS NOT WHAT YOU DO. LIFE IF HOW YOU FEEL WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT. .... read it several times while it sinks in.

1) accept that you will NEVER know everything in medicine. Just focus on knowing ENOUGH.
2) if you dont get rid of this perfectionist thing you will drive yourself crazy, your classmates, your professors, your future colleagues, and potentially jeopardize the health of your patients. It is serious. You need to change that. I suggest trying listening to podcasts on the topics, read a book on it, talk to a friend, even go to a therapist if you have to.... I have known people who were like this, and they ended up with severe anxiety and depression.

plus medical school tends to magnify every single psychological issue you had before, so if you dont address it prior, it WILL become worse. You will go crazy.

if you are looking for practical approaches try this:
1)take a piece of paper, make two columns. In the left column write down (in bullet point format) bad destructive attitudes you are trying to address, in the right, - how you are going to replace it. For example. In the left column: "master material from chapter 2", then CROSS IT OUT with red marker. on the right write: "Make a list of specific MAIN objectives and go through them". On the left column write "focus on learning everything for the classes", CROSS IT OUT. In the right one replace with "focus on being happy and grateful when i wake up and when i go to bed".

2). on sunday make a plan for the next week. Write down ONE THING (a big thing) you want to accomplish that week that would make you feel successful. JUST ONE THING. for example, it could be abstract for your research project, stuff like this. For every day, write down ONE THING from that big thing that you need to accomplish that day . Just one. And prioritize it. It might help you feel more accomplished and relaxed. Now you evaluate your success through your grades. this is wrong. This way you will evaluate your success through things you accomplish and complete. This way, when your grades drop, your confidence wont.

and last thing, - i definitely had to do it in medical school a bit. My grades were not nearly as amazing, but i was (and still am) way too critical of myself. IN medical school i have to keep telling myself :"i am not studying for the grades or for the boards. I am studying for this patient. " Sometimes i actually imagine a patient, and pretend that i need to learn this to help him. I know it sounds silly, but it helps me shift my focus.

So, before i go to bed, i list 3 things that i did well that day, - quality things. Not how much i read, or something like that, but things like "i called my mom and took my time teaching her a few recipes", or "i went and fed a homeless guy with homemade bread i made", or "i ate healthy".

Thanks you so much for this piece of information! I think this is something I would love to try. I appreciate all your help

 

[krazzydhoom]

My two cents: I have also struggled with this a lot, but as others have mentioned, once you lose your 4.0 you kinda get a whole new perspective on things and you realize that absolute perfection isn't necessary (or realistic). I have a lot of peace with this now, but my younger self would have had a hard time accepting it.
And I think the humility you can gain from being less-than-perfect is a crucial trait to acquire before medical school. There will be times when you won't grasp a concept, when you need to ask for help, when the resident/attending asks you a question and you don't know the answer, and even someday you might make the wrong decision for a patient. And, despite countless years of training and studying, there are problems in medicine that even the most competent physician does not know how to solve. All of these things demand humility, and undergrad is a great place to work on that. I'm certainly not saying that you're not currently a humble person -- only that "failure"/having to accept less than perfect is a good exercise in building up mental toughness for later in life. Wishing you the best!

This was so nice to read. I am glad I am not the only one feeling this way. I am definitely working to better this aspect of myself because I can at least realize that I don't want to live my life so dependent on my grades to define me. This was so beautifully written thank you

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I’m gonna try a different take. I disagree with “stop making perfection your goal.” I think it’s a great goal. I’m a perfectionist as well. I LOVE it. I love striving for it, I love getting it, and I’ll be that way for the rest of my life. I graduated with a 4.0, and went on from there. I don’t mind the “sufferings” that go with it. If you love the idea of never making a single error, go for it. However, you seem to be overtaken by fear, which isn’t good. It’s not the end of the world — even if you lose the 4.0, you can always achieve perfection in a semester, or a class, or something smaller, or even a hobby completely separate from classes. All perfection is is executing some kind of goal— you could say “I will exercise every day this week” and do it and that’s perfection. The 4.0 is not the only way, so lose that fear.

 

[eigen]

I’m gonna try a different take. I disagree with “stop making perfection your goal.” I think it’s a great goal. I’m a perfectionist as well. I LOVE it. I love striving for it, I love getting it, and I’ll be that way for the rest of my life. I graduated with a 4.0, and went on from there. I don’t mind the “sufferings” that go with it. If you love the idea of never making a single error, go for it. However, you seem to be overtaken by fear, which isn’t good. It’s not the end of the world — even if you lose the 4.0, you can always achieve perfection in a semester, or a class, or something smaller, or even a hobby completely separate from classes. All perfection is is executing some kind of goal— you could say “I will exercise every day this week” and do it and that’s perfection. The 4.0 is not the only way, so lose that fear.

Maybe this is just semantics, but I'd see this as a difference between striving for perfection and striving for excellence. Striving for perfection has implicit within it an intolerance for errors and mistakes- and errors and mistakes are a huge part of how we learn and grow. If you're trying to avoid errors, you're likely avoiding important opportunities to grow.

If, instead, what you're doing is trying to always strive for high performance and improvement (excellence), then at least to me that's a much more reasonable goal that avoids some of the pitfalls of perfection.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Maybe this is just semantics, but I'd see this as a difference between striving for perfection and striving for excellence. Striving for perfection has implicit within it an intolerance for errors and mistakes- and errors and mistakes are a huge part of how we learn and grow. If you're trying to avoid errors, you're likely avoiding important opportunities to grow.

If, instead, what you're doing is trying to always strive for high performance and improvement (excellence), then at least to me that's a much more reasonable goal that avoids some of the pitfalls of perfection.

Using those definitions, to me perfection is then the highest level of excellence that’s possible to achieve, if excellence existed on a gradient. Not trying to avoid errors in the sense of not doing something hard, but striving for no errors nonetheless. I’m a trauma surgeon— I spend my life “avoiding errors” because if I make an error, someone loses a limb. There is very little leeway for anything less in my life.

 

[eigen]

Using those definitions, to me perfection is then the highest level of excellence that’s possible to achieve, if excellence existed on a gradient. Not trying to avoid errors in the sense of not doing something hard, but striving for no errors nonetheless. I’m a trauma surgeon— I spend my life “avoiding errors” because if I make an error, someone loses a limb. There is very little leeway for anything less in my life.

Absolutely. I would argue that perfection is the highest level of obtainable, but not that it's possible to achieve. And hence, why it can become a self-defeating goal. Since it's not achievable, you're setting yourself up to never meet your goals. While there are some people who do fine on striving for goals they'll never meet, I think for a lot of others it can lead to rapid burnout.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Absolutely. I would argue that perfection is the highest level of obtainable, but not that it's possible to achieve. And hence, why it can become a self-defeating goal. Since it's not achievable, you're setting yourself up to never meet your goals. While there are some people who do fine on striving for goals they'll never meet, I think for a lot of others it can lead to rapid burnout.

It’s not possible to achieve all the time 100% of the time for the rest of your life, sure. But it’s certainly possible for a certain time period, depending on the metrics. If you measure by grades for example. (I was valedictorian 4 times in 4 different institutions throughout my academic life, 4.0 each time.) Or getting first place at the Olympics in your sport. Someone has to be in first place, after all...therefore it’s possible.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

doublepost by accident

 

[Damson]

It’s not possible to achieve all the time 100% of the time for the rest of your life, sure. But it’s certainly possible for a certain time period, depending on the metrics. If you measure by grades for example. (I was valedictorian 4 times in 4 different institutions throughout my academic life, 4.0 each time.) Or getting first place at the Olympics in your sport. Someone has to be in first place, after all...therefore it’s possible.

Getting first place at something doesn't signify perfection of performance. Perfection is the absence of error. Your 4.0's are not indicators of perfection, but rather consistent performance at a level within the range of 93~100, graded by professors with their standardized methods of grading. At some institutions, professors also adhere to the institution's arbitrary methods grade distribution. ("chair said I have to curve the class average to an 85...") If you took your classes with different professors at a different environment, with exams at different difficulties graded at different discretions, it's quite dubious whether or not you would've again scored 4.0s. But while you were a student, despite not always scoring 100s, you kept an eye on the grading schemes and made it work - your abilities helped you land scores within the range of 93~100. During surgeries, your incision point won't ever be at the perfect point, nor will your suture positions induce maximum healing speed and minimum scarring. But it doesn't matter, you make it work for your client.

You also could've made it to orthosurg anyway even if you scored a little under 4.0. The takeaway from this, @itstiki, is that slight variations in your grades are only natural. While consistent effort will reflect consistent grades, getting an A- doesn't mean you've become inconsistent, especially when there are numerous factors out of your control. That esoteric exam question may get you, a powerpoint slide you printed fell out of the pile somewhere and you didn't know that while studying, the professor had a bad day and didn't feel like grading generously, someone in your group couldn't articulate properly on stage and messed up your group grade, you get a final grade of 91 instead of 95. So what? Shrug it off. It doesn't define you. Instead of perfectionist, identify yourself as hard-worker. Due to your strength, you'll still be earning decent grades moving forward.

Hope this has helped you drive over that baggage weighing on you.

 

[M&L]

I believe there is a difference - if striving for perfection is something that motivates you to excel -this is one thing . But if striving for perfection feels maladaptive , or, rather , puts you in a place of discomfort and interferes with your daily life - it should be addressed . I do believe that Someone CAN be a perfectionist with Healthy attitudes that are constructive . But since OP made The post, This is not entirely the case here .

 

[Paul202]

I just wanted to drop in and say your feelings are valid. I'm in the same boat, going into my senior year with the goal of graduating as valedictorian (everyone with a 4.0 is valedictorian at my school). I have literally had people tell me that a 3.95 looks better on your application than a 4.0 - at the end of the day just do the best you can. If I get a 3.5 in a class I will be very upset, but that's no reason to unduly stress yourself over. Physics is very hard, work your hardest but remind yourself that if you do get an A- you're still doing amazing.

 

[El-Rami]

I wouldn't sweat it if you have a couple of Bs on your transcript, but at least maintain a 3.9 GPA and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. MCAT and GPA are the most important factors for medical school admissions. Get your ECs in order to check boxes.

Medical school gets harder each year to get into due to competition, and I've read that COVID-19 is inspiring more people to seek entry into medical school. Many MD programs have matriculant average GPAs of ~3.8, so 3.9+ GPA would make you above-average, which is where you actually want to be.

People can rail against perfectionism all they want in this thread, and while they aren't wrong to say that there are more important things in life than grades, you have to be as close to "perfect" as possible if you want to gain entry into a medical school of your choice.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I believe there is a difference - if striving for perfection is something that motivates you to excel -this is one thing . But if striving for perfection feels maladaptive , or, rather , puts you in a place of discomfort and interferes with your daily life - it should be addressed . I do believe that Someone CAN be a perfectionist with Healthy attitudes that are constructive . But since OP made The post, This is not entirely the case here .

That’s it!