PGY1 differences for AOA vs ACGME vs Dual accredited residency

[lightthelamp4]

So I have heard from several other students on rotations that dual accredited and acgme residencies have different demands for PGY1 training, specifically in regards to hours worked and nights covering the hospital.

I just read online that ACGME PGY1's cannot work any longer than 16 consecutive hours but I am not sure if what I was reading is legit. Can anyone with knowledge of this give any insight?

feel kinda guilty but if this is true it will likely play a role in where I apply

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[DocMonty]

So I have heard from several other students on rotations that dual accredited and acgme residencies have different demands for PGY1 training, specifically in regards to hours worked and nights covering the hospital.

I just read online that ACGME PGY1's cannot work any longer than 16 consecutive hours but I am not sure if what I was reading is legit. Can anyone with knowledge of this give any insight?

feel kinda guilty but if this is true it will likely play a role in where I apply

I believe the Libby ZIon Law applies to "All" residencies now --and not just in New York state like it used to years ago. Which means that no more than cumulative 80 hrs total per week can a resident work... if I am not mistaken.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

I believe the Libby ZIon Law applies to "All" residencies now --and not just in New York state like it used to years ago. Which means that no more than cumulative 80 hrs total per week can a resident work... if I am not mistaken.

The Zion case was in the 80s. The 80-hour work week restrictions happened in the early 2000s because of the Zion case. A few years ago, the ACGME restricted interns to working no more than 16 hours per shift. So yes, OP, it's true.

 

[Instatewaiter]

So I have heard from several other students on rotations that dual accredited and acgme residencies have different demands for PGY1 training, specifically in regards to hours worked and nights covering the hospital.

I just read online that ACGME PGY1's cannot work any longer than 16 consecutive hours but I am not sure if what I was reading is legit. Can anyone with knowledge of this give any insight?

feel kinda guilty but if this is true it will likely play a role in where I apply

In ACGME programs (including dually accredited) PGY1's can only work 16 consecutive hours with ~10 hours off in between shifts and 80 hours per week (averaged over 4 weeks)

PGY 2+ can only work 24+4 hours consecutively (basically 28 hours straight) again with 10 hours off and a 80 hours per week.

 

[laconfidential]

There are differences; I'm not extremely well versed in them but at AOA programs interns can work 24hrs but ACGME interns can only do 16hrs at a time. Both are 80hrs/week averaged over 4 weeks. I think there are some other differences such as how many weeks in a row you can do night float (many AOA programs do a month straight, ACGME is only two weeks at a time). Not 100% on dual programs but I would guess the stricter terms would win.

 

[DO3]

In addition, if you match in the AOA match into a dually accredited program, you may have to take both the AOA and ACGME in-service examinations.

 

[lightthelamp4]

thanks for all the responses guys!

 

[NurWollen]

There are differences; I'm not extremely well versed in them but at AOA programs interns can work 24hrs but ACGME interns can only do 16hrs at a time. Both are 80hrs/week averaged over 4 weeks. I think there are some other differences such as how many weeks in a row you can do night float (many AOA programs do a month straight, ACGME is only two weeks at a time). Not 100% on dual programs but I would guess the stricter terms would win.

Could someone explain to me what night float is?

 

[JeetKuneDo]

In addition, if you match in the AOA match into a dually accredited program, you may have to take both the AOA and ACGME in-service examinations.

Are the exams that different? At the end of residency (dual accredited), however, you are able to choose to be either ABMS or AOA board certified, correct?

 

[Bacchus]

I'm in a dually accredited residency. I follow ACGME rules even though I entered through the AOA match. That said, I have the pleasure of taking both intraining exams yearly and also both sets of boards at the end of my 3 years (bleh).

 

[Bacchus]

There are differences; I'm not extremely well versed in them but at AOA programs interns can work 24hrs but ACGME interns can only do 16hrs at a time. Both are 80hrs/week averaged over 4 weeks. I think there are some other differences such as how many weeks in a row you can do night float (many AOA programs do a month straight, ACGME is only two weeks at a time). Not 100% on dual programs but I would guess the stricter terms would win.

This is interesting. I didn't know there was a night float restriction in place. I just thought we did 2 weeks at two different times for no reason at all.

 

[Bacchus]

It's like working during the day, but at night. You cover the patients and potentially other services. You don't have to round because the day team does that (although if you aren't busy its appreciated to write notes, at least at my residency). You do admissions.

At my program, when we're on night float (or call) we cover peds, our service, and cover an OB clinic.

 

[lightthelamp4]

thanks for the info guys

I was on IM rotation at an osteopathic instituion recently and the interns that were on call would work from 6 am (or earlier depending on when they got to hospital) to around noon the next day. Would I be correct to believe that this does not happen at ACGME/Dual accredited places because of the 16 hour day restrictions? sorry if this is repetitive I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly because it has big implications

 

[laconfidential]

This is interesting. I didn't know there was a night float restriction in place. I just thought we did 2 weeks at two different times for no reason at all.

I'm pretty sure it's true but FWIW my friends in AOA programs all do a month at a time for night float and I've never heard of an ACGME one that does more than two weeks. Two weeks was more than enough for me; any longer and I'd be seriously contemplating another career.

thanks for the info guys

I was on IM rotation at an osteopathic instituion recently and the interns that were on call would work from 6 am (or earlier depending on when they got to hospital) to around noon the next day. Would I be correct to believe that this does not happen at ACGME/Dual accredited places because of the 16 hour day restrictions? sorry if this is repetitive I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly because it has big implications

Yes, you are correct. But work a couple of 16 hour days in a row and you'll start to wonder how anyone ever thought that was the "humane" option. There are plenty of ACGME programs where there's no in-house overnight call, ever unless something really crazy happens.

 

[lightthelamp4]

awesome, thanks for the heads up

 

[jankymutt]

Most dual programs, such as mine (Genesys EM), follow the stricter duty hours rules (ACGME). As I'm sure you've all read, this is probably all going to change in the near future with ACGME being the accrediting body for all residency programs. Many AOA programs in my area have been adopting the ACGME guidelines for the last few years in anticipation of this change.