Pharmacists vs. Physician Assistants

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mastif1 said:
This is probably a really dumb question but do NPs and PAs have to take gross anatomy and deal with cadavers in school as they do in med school. I was just wondering because that's what lead me to want to pursue pharmacy was the lack of those types of things.
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At my high school for Human Anatomy and Physiology (I'm taking it sophomore year) we dissect cats. If you take the CC Human A and P (probably as a senior) you get to work with the cadavers at the local tech school. Fun huh?
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Sophomore said:
At my high school for Human Anatomy and Physiology (I'm taking it sophomore year) we dissect cats. If you take the CC Human A and P (probably as a senior) you get to work with the cadavers at the local tech school. Fun huh?
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See that's one of the things I love about pharmacy...no working with cadavers.;)
 
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Personally, I would end up choosing pharmacy over practicing as a physician's assistant. first of all, I have a doctorate, a little more leverage when it comes to dealing with the physician, salary. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the only reason you should become a PA is because you get earlier patient contact, less debt, and love to 'practice' medicine.
 
I'm glad this thread was brought back. Deciding between PA and Pharmacist in my opinion has become a more difficult decision.

I for instance want to work in the medical field. I want to have a job that is in someway playing a contributing role in the community. I would prefer not becoming a PA, simply because for the rest of your career your are subjected to work under someone else (a physician). But the pay is good and the job outlook seems bright.

I think pharmacy is good choice and allows for many options. You can be your own boss and not forced to stay in one field (retail vs hospital vs consultant). The pay is good here as well. But the job outlook seems confusing, many surveys and articles say demand is increasing...but at the same time looks like there will be an over abundant of pharmacists leaving many jobless or the entire field taking a huge pay-cut.

... so in the end, I'm still a little confused as to where i should be investing my money and time.

Another option is, becoming a doctor... the pay is good, the demand is there, but the hours are tough and the stress is high. I want to help others and make a decent living, but not at the expense of my own health and leisure.

anyone have any advice or experience on this matter?
 
Hey, I am in the same boat also. I want a health care career, but med school is just too much for me in terms of dedication, hours, stress, etc. I like medicine, but its not my passion. (none of my passions correlate with a realistic career). I just want a job thats interesting, pays well, and doesn't suck the life out of me.

The problem I have with Pharmacy is that to me its just boring, no offense to any pharmacists.

Im considering PA, seems like a good deal, I just really hate the name "Assistant". It just irritates me.
 
33Doc said:
anyone have any advice or experience on this matter?
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Shadow each one and see which you like best. No one here can tell you what's best for you. There are definitely pros and cons to each position as you've mentioned, but how much you can see yourself doing the day-in day-out routine of what each does for a living should be the main factor in your decision.
 
PA likely has a more secure future. They can actually bill for their services
 
NateAZSD said:
UW has the only PharmD/PA program in the country. It takes 5 years to complete both degrees. Checkout there website for more info.
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bananaface said:
Yeah. There is no point in doing both though. There's no dual niche. They will even tell you that there if you ask them, "What am i supposed to do with this degree?"
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+1

My school is starting a PA program soon. Many of my fellow pharmd students were excited about the prospect of doing a pharmd/PA. I asked them what job would they have with both degrees. Very few realized you would fulfill one role or the other.
 
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joetrisman said:
+1

My school is starting a PA program soon. Many of my fellow pharmd students were excited about the prospect of doing a pharmd/PA. I asked them what job would they have with both degrees. Very few realized you would fulfill one role or the other.
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Up until very recently I thought that was the case as well, but there are some exceptions. I've been in touch with a dual degree holder who operated a pharmacotherapy clinic at a teaching hospital. She said that some days she would be scheduled as a PA treating patients, and other days she would take referrals from physicians for patients with particularly difficult to manage medication regimens. But thing was that she had to make her own position. There isn't an established niche for anyone holding this combo yet, but a person may be able to carve out their own if they're so inclined, and can find an employer willing to give them a chance.
 
You run the risk of being under-experienced/under-qualified in one (or both) of the specialties, and being considered to be over-qualified for a "regular" job. To me, concurrent degrees are kind of silly.

My wife was hell-bent on the Stanford Law JD/PhD dual degree but thankfully I managed to talk her out of it. Like, why go through that when you're not really going to use the Ph.D? Without appropriate academic experience no college will put you on the TT and if you just want to per diem at a CC or something for extra cash, you can do so with just the JD.

She replied that she wanted to pursue the academic world moreso than the JD is allowing, but c'mon... Dual degrees are, by and large, for the vast majority, completely worthless. I'm sure there are some folks who make use of some of them, however... like the PharmD/MBA perhaps?

In Davis there was an MD/DDS who was practicing as a dentist. I guess it goes to his credibility that, with an MD, he really knows what he's doing with your mouth/teeth/gums... but *shrug*
 
R2pharmD2 said:
Up until very recently I thought that was the case as well, but there are some exceptions. I've been in touch with a dual degree holder who operated a pharmacotherapy clinic at a teaching hospital. She said that some days she would be scheduled as a PA treating patients, and other days she would take referrals from physicians for patients with particularly difficult to manage medication regimens. But thing was that she had to make her own position. There isn't an established niche for anyone holding this combo yet, but a person may be able to carve out their own if they're so inclined, and can find an employer willing to give them a chance.
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I think I might know that person! At any rate, I have two friends who earned PharmD/PA degrees and they did it to qualify as faculty in PA programs. I guess that requires a doctorate of some type. They were both PAs first.

I agree that the combination is not entirely useful for most people.
 
Passion4Sci said:
In Davis there was an MD/DDS who was practicing as a dentist. I guess it goes to his credibility that, with an MD, he really knows what he's doing with your mouth/teeth/gums... but *shrug*
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Kind offtopic, but I have always thought that both MDs and DDS are required if you wanted to be an oral surgeon vs. Regular dentist, as these were the degrees all the oral surgeons at my past place of employment had. However, there was one guy/ gem who was an MD and DDS and he was praciting as a plastic surgeon I kid you not, I guess it took him 12 years of straight schooling to figure out what he wanted to do :laugh:
 
cheburashka said:
Kind offtopic, but I have always thought that both MDs and DDS are required if you wanted to be an oral surgeon vs. Regular dentist, as these were the degrees all the oral surgeons at my past place of employment had. However, there was one guy/ gem who was an MD and DDS and he was praciting as a plastic surgeon I kid you not, I guess it took him 12 years of straight schooling to figure out what he wanted to do :laugh:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery

The DDS is Doctor of Dental Surgery. I should hope they can do surgery with a surgery degree. ;)
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Extra training is required beyond the DDS to be an OMS. Some OMS programs confer the MD but some don't. But you can't just graduate from dental school and hang a shingle proclaiming yourself as an oral surgeon.
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He was a dentist people, not an "oral-maxillary surgeon" or whatever. He was a dentist. He did a filling and cleaning for me.

I get it that there are super specialized stuffs, just like in pharmacy and everywhere else, but this chap was rockin' his MD/DDS and cleaning teeth, not doing hard-core surgery. I mentioned that when I first brought it up.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
The MBA / PharmD program here works about the same... A few people I know graduated with their PharmD, did their residency, wrote NAPLEX & CPJE then went back for ~1 year to finish the MBA.

I just can't see the usefulness.
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OK, I'm confused. I didn't post this. It shows P4S edited it, so is this your post? :confused:
 
Not sure if someone mentioned this already, but for those looking to apply for PA program or considering it, YOU NEED HANDS ON EXPERIENCE TO APPLY, ITS MANDATORY! Working in retail pharmacy for sure doesn't count! I'm not sure if hospital pharmacies count though. I read somewhere you need a crazy amount of work experience hours, like 1000+. So if your a medical assistant, any kind of nurse, emt, hospital volunteer,etc, then you qualify to apply. Trust me, I applied, curious about the career path as an option,but was rejected for that sole reason:thumbdown:. But I'm not complaining, being a pharmacist is a little more prestigious IMO. :)
 
I think being a PA would be great for the first five years out of school. After that, I'd probably be wondering why I didn't just pursue an MD in the first place.

But, like I've said before, MD or PA, dealing with rectums is something I never want to do. Count me out of these professions.
 
222pharmD said:
Not sure if someone mentioned this already, but for those looking to apply for PA program or considering it, YOU NEED HANDS ON EXPERIENCE TO APPLY, ITS MANDATORY! Working in retail pharmacy for sure doesn't count! I'm not sure if hospital pharmacies count though. I read somewhere you need a crazy amount of work experience hours, like 1000+. So if your a medical assistant, any kind of nurse, emt, hospital volunteer,etc, then you qualify to apply. Trust me, I applied, curious about the career path as an option,but was rejected for that sole reason:thumbdown:. But I'm not complaining, being a pharmacist is a little more prestigious IMO. :)
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Albany Medical College has a PA program and they accept pharmacy technician hours from retail. Why do you think all PA programs don't accept tech experence from retail? I've only talked to admissions at Albany about it, did you talk to ALL PA programs?
 
Has anyone heard of any online PA programs?
 
Farmacist2011 said:
Albany Medical College has a PA program and they accept pharmacy technician hours from retail. Why do you think all PA programs don't accept tech experence from retail? I've only talked to admissions at Albany about it, did you talk to ALL PA programs?
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Nope...Just California where I applied. That's cool they take tech hours there, if only our schools here weren't so picky!:rolleyes: I looked up all the schools here at my state, some are vague about where the experience should come from, but the options given were the ones I listed earlier. No where did I see retail pharmacy as an option. I emailed some of the schools but only one of them got back to me saying in fact that it MUST be hands on experience.
 
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222pharmD said:
Nope...Just California where I applied. That's cool they take tech hours there, if only our schools here weren't so picky!:rolleyes:
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Why don't you do pharmacy and when the career dies in 5-10 years, jump over to PA school for 2 years.
 
I was plagued with the very same decision for months going back and forth until very recently when I finally decided to become a PA. Pharmacy was always my first choice due to my love and passion for pharmaceuticals, toxicology, and anything having to do with medical science. Sure, a PA fits my interests great as well with just about the same salary, but a Pharmacist has a lot more prestige and not as much of close interaction with the patients, which is a benefit to me considering I'm a humanist, but not comfortable being very personal and warm. Unfortunately, to make good investments, we must act in harmony with the job market and the job market in Northern NJ and NYC (my area) has a terrible future for aspiring Pharmacists. Being that I'm almost 21 and wouldn't start Pharmacy school for about 4 years, I would be entering at the worst time possible. For someone not wanting to relocate, I had to reluctantly say goodbye to working as a future Pharmacist.

Since the name ASSISTANT in PA really bothers me, I briefly considered going into Optometry, but I heard this even has a worse future in my area and as if that wasn't bad enough, their salaries are lowering drastically. I heard Optometrists supposedly make around 6 figures and when I checked the average salary in NYC on Indeed.com, it was a mere 60,000! I'm sorry, but the long rigorous years in Optometry school deserve much more than that, so I quickly ruled that out as a possibility. I could be making the same and even more with my undergraduate I'm signing up for, Clinical Laboratory Science, which is MUCH more fun and less schooling.

Finally, I've made the decision to go to PA school after I earn my CLS degree. Even though I love laboratory work, I can make around 40k more as a PA. I'm still bothered by the fact that it has the name 'Assistant' in it and as a result, my *undergraduate* will even sound more prestigious than that. I suppose the most important thing is I'll be enjoying what I do as a PA, as long as I'm not in family or children care, since I love to study and practice medicine. I know there's been a recent petition to change PA to its original name - Physician Associate, but I also understand this troubles the physicians as 'associate' implies equality and a peer status. I think the profession would benefit from being called "Assistant Physician", "Substitute Physician", or "Secondary Physician". Physician Assistant sounds too much like Physician's Assistant; this downgrades the importance and the responsibility of the job. My parents are normal level headed people and when I brought up 'Physician Assistant', they thought I was talking about a trade school type of job where you just hand the doctor the scalpel and wipe the blood off the patient's wound. If the name remains as 'Physician Assistant', I fear I'll be seen as someone who chose this field for not getting into Med School or failing out of it. Most PAs I know CHOSE to be a PA and had no interest in becoming a doctor, which is actually my story. For one thing, being that I'm going and finishing my third year in CC due to the fact that I had no idea what I wanted to major in, I would already be three years behind pre meds who would be finishing their last years of their BS degree and this isn't even adding in the fact that I need to wait 1 year before starting my four year undergraduate since I'm getting a surgery that needs a 6 month recovery and cost 20k. Standardized tests freak me out as well (for some reason the PCAT and OAT scare me less, though). In addition, I don't want the autonomy the doctor has as I'm a very insecure person. I'm the kind of person who gets top marks on tests but afterwards doubts themselves and questions themselves time after time instead of being confident in my answers. I also get bored easily and being a PA would give me the freedom to move from specialty to specialty. All in all, depending on where you live, your financial situation, and your age, I would strongly consider the PA field as opposed to going into Pharmacy.
 
Being a PA might be nice for the first 10 years, but after 20 you might be kicking yourself for not just going to med school in the first place. It might get old being told being supervised by much newer/younger graduates and always being second fiddle to anybody with a medical degree.

Once there are fewer baby boomers around, the demand for PAs will probably drop as well.

In the ranking of job desirability, I think PA is well above most nursing jobs, but definitely below MD and DO.
 
Svetlana1227: What area of NYC are you from? I am entering my third year of undergrad, biology major and I have the same concerns as you had. I am really interested in optometry, but am afraid that the future outlook of it looks slim and I would need to earn 100k + considering the amount of loans I'd need to take out for schooling. I am also interested in pharmacy, both of my brothers are pharmacists. PA has also been an interest of mine. I am completely confused and need to pick a choice now to actually pursue a career. Thanks for your help!
 
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InveniamViam said:
Svetlana1227: What area of NYC are you from? I am entering my third year of undergrad, biology major and I have the same concerns as you had. I am really interested in optometry, but am afraid that the future outlook of it looks slim and I would need to earn 100k + considering the amount of loans I'd need to take out for schooling. I am also interested in pharmacy, both of my brothers are pharmacists. PA has also been an interest of mine. I am completely confused and need to pick a choice now to actually pursue a career. Thanks for your help!
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There's always the choice of being both by going to a university that offers a joint program.
 
PA all the way if you care about getting a job with all that tuition debt. If youre still not in professional school there is only one choice bet the two.
 
Svetlana1227 said:
Since the name ASSISTANT in PA really bothers me, I briefly considered going into Optometry, but I heard this even has a worse future in my area and as if that wasn't bad enough, their salaries are lowering drastically. I heard Optometrists supposedly make around 6 figures and when I checked the average salary in NYC on Indeed.com, it was a mere 60,000!

I'm still bothered by the fact that it has the name 'Assistant' in it and as a result, my *undergraduate* will even sound more prestigious than that. I suppose the most important thing is I'll be enjoying what I do as a PA, as long as I'm not in family or children care, since I love to study and practice medicine. I know there's been a recent petition to change PA to its original name - Physician Associate, but I also understand this troubles the physicians as 'associate' implies equality and a peer status. I think the profession would benefit from being called "Assistant Physician", "Substitute Physician", or "Secondary Physician". Physician Assistant sounds too much like Physician's Assistant; this downgrades the importance and the responsibility of the job. My parents are normal level headed people and when I brought up 'Physician Assistant', they thought I was talking about a trade school type of job where you just hand the doctor the scalpel and wipe the blood off the patient's wound. If the name remains as 'Physician Assistant', I fear I'll be seen as someone who chose this field for not getting into Med School or failing out of it.
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O gawd please get over yourself! Not enough PRESTIGE :laugh::laugh::laugh: Hah this is lulz all day
 
Trent Steele said:
O gawd please get over yourself! Not enough PRESTIGE :laugh::laugh::laugh: Hah this is lulz all day
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I must concur. If one of that poster's concerns about getting into the field is kvetching about the title, I'm especially concerned about their maturity regarding the health profession. The title is moot and if you're at all concerned about respect due to a title ... :thumbdown: ... One gains respect due to the quality of their work, not because of the title of Assistant Physician vs. Physician Assistant.
 
chemguy79 said:
I must concur. If one of that poster's concerns about getting into the field is kvetching about the title, I'm especially concerned about their maturity regarding the health profession. The title is moot and if you're at all concerned about respect due to a title ... :thumbdown: ... One gains respect due to the quality of their work, not because of the title of Assistant Physician vs. Physician Assistant.
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I can't help but wonder if we are being troll baited, but I agree. If it bothers him now, imagine how he will feel about the role 10 years from now. Not a good sign, IMO.
 
owlegrad said:
I can't help but wonder if we are being troll baited, but I agree. If it bothers him now, imagine how he will feel about the role 10 years from now. Not a good sign, IMO.
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Honestly, I thought the same way. *shrug* Trolls seem to make their presence known in record numbers when the subsequent application cycle starts.
 
I will admit right from the start that I have a personal bias with regard to the PA field. That said, I have nothing but respect for the PA profession. With regard to a previous poster's statements about "prestige" and the perception that PAs are people who couldn't get into med school, I think there are a couple of misconceptions that should be addressed.

First, PA schools tend to be very highly competitive. Sure, there are a few of the new "diploma mill" type of schools that will accept almost anyone, but established/respected ones are not this way. It is not uncommon for there to be 20 applicants for every 1 spot in an incoming class. The applicants are typically not pre-med washouts either. Most applicants fall into 2 categories: 1) middle aged career changers with a TON of medical experience (EMT, military medic, etc), or 2) those whose primary career goal / dream is being a PA. These are typically younger students fresh out of undergrad who don't want to spend another decade of medical school, residency, fellowship, etc just practice medicine. In any event, the field is so competitive that those accepted are usually exceptionally qualified. Once in, they experience a very tough program. What is lacking in program length is more than made up with program rigor.

Second, the physician / PA model (especially in the primary care specialties...surgery can be different) is one in which the PA has a significant amount of autonomy to diagnose and treat as they see fit without the physician constantly looking over the PA's shoulder. Often, chart/order reviews occur well after the fact. Also, it is very common for the major interactions between the 2 to be initiated by the PA when help/advice is needed. Most PAs check the ego at the door and are more than grateful to have a good supervising physician there when needed.

Finally, the "prestige" issue...smh. The only prestige that should matter to a health care professional is providing the best possible care to the patient. Period.
 
I'm going off what my sister said, but I might start doing my own research on this as well. She says that Physician Assistants are become a HUGE thing now in the states. There is little supply of them and a growing demand. This usually means that you can make more money, less competition, etc. It's not a bad idea to seriously consider a PA over PharmD. I also had a professor in economics saying that Master of Taxation in Canada is becoming a huge thing too. Not too many people currently seeking it, and again same thing, more money, less competition, more job security, etc. Staying ahead of the trends is always something to consider for a great future.
Awesome post!!
 
Bigj5768 said:
There's always the choice of being both by going to a university that offers a joint program.
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I've looked into it after you mentioned and I'm just wondering what's the point of the joint program? The work has major differences other than the medical aspect of it...I don't see any similarities/ what you can do with both degrees together once graduating. If anybody has some knowledge please do inform. I would be very grateful. Thanks
 
3 or more years ago: Pharmacy (Pharm.D) over PA .

Now? PA > Pharm.D

Salary wise, PA's salary has been catching up with pharmacist's salary. Some PA makes even more than Pharm.D. Autonomy wise: PA. More autonomy. They can do whatever they like as MDs. They can diagnose, order labs, order X-ray, request consults, write prescriptions, etc.. Don't let the title "assistant" fool you. PA are respected as much as MDs in real life. In fact, I've seen a lot of nurses treat PA with much much more respect than they treat Pharm.D in hospitals. Why? Because PAs work directly with RN and write orders for RN to follow. RN do see PA as MDs. In fact, some RNs even mistakenlly call PA "doctor" several times that I witness :laugh:.
 
I've been moved to respond to this post. I find it fascinating the way the both career paths have shifted since this thread was started in 2007.

I can only speak for Boston, which has a very unique healthcare market that is generally saturated with all types of healthcare professionals. I am currently an RN and am deciding between becoming a CRNA, PharmD, or a PA.

I strongly believe that I would enjoy all of these professions, largely because of the ability to work in a hospital environment, and the autonomy and technical prowess required of each job.

First off, anyone who is basing their career decision on title or how "impressive" they will seem is very misguided and ultimately will not find job satisfaction in any career.

Based on my research (and my studies of the healthcare environment) PA's are allotted a significant autonomy in their environment. I have seen PA's enter the room of a post-op cardiac sx patient and treat them from soup to nuts, including, development of a medicinal regimen. I also see a PA as my PCP, and have been treated by a PA in the ER. They are qualified professionals that are successfully filling a gap in healthcare as a cheaper, yet qualified healthcare provider. I also am impressed that PAs are allowed the opportunity to specialize, much as an MD does. This is not necessarily the case with NPs as the options for specialization seem increasingly limited. Pay-wise, PAs in my area start at $75-95,000 but tend to increase significantly after two years of experience. PAs that become practitioners in a community office setting can make upwards of $200-300,000. For myself, personally, I like the idea that I will be (and continue to maintain certification) as an RN, and also a PA, since the idea of that higher-level medical care is attractive to me. I also feel that PAs garner much respect, despite having the dirty word of "assistant" in their job title.

PharmDs fill an important roll as well, although my understanding, especially as the market becomes slightly more saturated, starting pay is higher than a PA but tends to level off rather quickly. In addition, while you can "be your own boss" you are still at the mercy of superiors, insurance companies, nasty clients and physicians offices...unless you plan to open your own pharmacy, which seems to be a poor choice in today's world with low-cost pharmacy options on every street corner, but would perhaps be more successful in a rural area.

If your goal is to be your own boss, I feel that there is an ability to do so in both positions - whether you open your own pharmacy, or partner with an MD and help operate a practice. Also, despite the lower starting salary, PA's have more upward momentum with pay raises, especially because they can bill for services, which is a great self-motivating factor to work hard and keep busy.

I'm looking into both options and see them both as great career choices that would provide a lucrative future, however, whether one makes me a "doctor" or the other has the title "assistant" in it, they both are very different avenues of healthcare that allow the individual an opportunity to be their own boss, make a great wage, and provide a great service to the community.

Try to be a bit more open-minded and less biased in your responses.
 
NurseMB83 said:
I'm looking into both options and see them both as great career choices that would provide a lucrative future, however, whether one makes me a "doctor" or the other has the title "assistant" in it, they both are very different avenues of healthcare that allow the individual an opportunity to be their own boss, make a great wage, and provide a great service to the community.

Try to be a bit more open-minded and less biased in your responses.
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Excellent!
 
I am also in the same dilemma as to pursue PA or Pharmacy. I had volunteered at a retail pharmacy before and I convinced myself that pharmacy is not for me. I like that PA get to work one-on-one and interact with patients and also it is only a 2-year program. I really hope that I can volunteer/shadow and see how a PA's working environment is like. However, my problem with PA is that I need to get clinical hours and I am not sure how do I go about to obtain these? Should I get certified and be a medical assistant or be an EMT? Current PA please share some tips or advices! Also, it is interesting to see the transition of this thread from pro-pharmacy in 2007 to leaning more toward PA recently. Is pharmacy really that saturated?
 
pharmerboi said:
I am also in the same dilemma as to pursue PA or Pharmacy. I had volunteered at a retail pharmacy before and I convinced myself that pharmacy is not for me. I like that PA get to work one-on-one and interact with patients and also it is only a 2-year program. I really hope that I can volunteer/shadow and see how a PA's working environment is like. However, my problem with PA is that I need to get clinical hours and I am not sure how do I go about to obtain these? Should I get certified and be a medical assistant or be an EMT? Current PA please share some tips or advices! Also, it is interesting to see the transition of this thread from pro-pharmacy in 2007 to leaning more toward PA recently. Is pharmacy really that saturated?
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Retail is not the only setting for a pharmacist.
 
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