Pharmacy is slowly going down. CVS/WAGs is a true def of modern day slavery. What are our options?

[BIGVOODOO]

Hello, RPh community,

After a couple of months with CVS as a floater, I quit due to what I felt was a mental and physical abuse to the RPh and techs. I told my DM it's not ethical to understaff every pharmacy I go in order to save more money. Hence, it could overwork the pharmacist and might lead to med errors.

After I quit, I looked at the retail pharmacy industry to find out that this has been a common practice from retail chains. I am not going to get into the forming a union or sue the state boards who sleep with big corps in the same bed, because I do not have a big hope of this to happen.

I am now jobless, and I'm looking at different options and career paths, I would like to get your thoughts and any input regarding that matter.

Best,

I am not a slave RPh, lol

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[yungnaira]

Well damn, this is as real as it gets

 

[BIGVOODOO]

Well damn, this is as real as it gets

It is very bad out there. The market is looking very bad. And, I am not scaring you of pharmacy school. It is a great option and noble career. However, my advice to you as a student is to gain, acquire and master as many skills as possible during school. If you focus only on passing exams, it will be very hard for you in the current environment. Retail is horrible, but there are other options out there that you can explore but they require a lot of skill sets. I believe the beginning of the end of the good old days of retail pharmacy has already started 4-5 years ago, and it will get worse. After working in CVS for 2 months, I told myself, my physical and mental wellbeing is more important than anything.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Hello, RPh community,

After a couple of months with CVS as a floater, I quit due to what I felt was a mental and physical abuse to the RPh and techs. I told my DM it's not ethical to understaff every pharmacy I go in order to save more money. Hence, it could overwork the pharmacist and might lead to med errors.

After I quit, I looked at the retail pharmacy industry to find out that this has been a common practice from retail chains. I am not going to get into the forming a union or sue the state boards who sleep with big corps in the same bed, because I do not have a big hope of this to happen.

I am now jobless, and I'm looking at different options and career paths, I would like to get your thoughts and any input regarding that matter.

Best,

I am not a slave RPh, lol

I came in with my snark-beam charging, but I actually really respect what you did.
Kudos.

I wish I could tell you to try to get hired at an independent pharmacy, but we're going to be extinct soon

 

[BIGVOODOO]

I came in with my snark-beam charging, but I actually really respect what you did.
Kudos.

I wish I could tell you to try to get hired at an independent pharmacy, but we're going to be extinct soon

Thank you CetiAlphaFive. My dad and I owned an independent pharmacy for 7 years. We were not making big bucks but enough to get a 120K salary each, plus a fulltime job for four certified techs at 25$/hr (we helped all of them to get their certifications) But we were very happy and satisfied with that because the working conditions and our patients were the best and I had the time to actually help (DURs, MTM, and spend time with our patients on counseling). All of this until CVS, PBMs, and the board co-oped together and we were forced to sell the pharmacy for CVS because we started losing a lot of money towards the end.

Anyone has ideas about different career paths, I looked at prior auth pharmacists, msl, industry, but I haven't received any interviews yet. Been one month since I quit.

Your feedback and input are much appreciated.

 

[Unchained]

What state are you in? Pennsylvania requires physicians, PA's or pharmacists behind their counter. Nice gig for 100k salary.
I give you big kudos for walking on them. CVS is a soul sucking company.

 

[BIGVOODOO]

What state are you in? Pennsylvania requires physicians, PA's or pharmacists behind their counter. Nice gig for 100k salary.
I give you big kudos for walking on them. CVS is a soul sucking company.

I’m in NV. Does PA allow mid level practitioners to dispense meds?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

We have a pretty low bar for what's considered slavery.

OP: "I'm a slave!"
*walks away from job with zero repercussions*

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

We have a pretty low bar for what's considered slavery.
OP: "I'm a slave!"
*walks away from job with zero repercussions*

According to Social/economic Marxists we all are

 

[owlegrad]

We have a pretty low bar for what's considered slavery.

OP: "I'm a slave!"
*walks away from job with zero repercussions*

I mean I like hyperbole as much as the next guy but something about the term 'slavery' rubs me the wrong way. Like a six figure job is "slavery"? Give me a break.

Kudos to OP for getting out of CVS though.

 

[johnpharm01]

Thank you CetiAlphaFive. My dad and I owned an independent pharmacy for 7 years. We were not making big bucks but enough to get a 120K salary each, plus a fulltime job for four certified techs at 25$/hr (we helped all of them to get their certifications) But we were very happy and satisfied with that because the working conditions and our patients were the best and I had the time to actually help (DURs, MTM, and spend time with our patients on counseling). All of this until CVS, PBMs, and the board co-oped together and we were forced to sell the pharmacy for CVS because we started losing a lot of money towards the end.

Anyone has ideas about different career paths, I looked at prior auth pharmacists, msl, industry, but I haven't received any interviews yet. Been one month since I quit.

Your feedback and input are much appreciated.

Since you have experience with independents, have you looked into other states and areas? Independents are becoming more rare but there are a few around in very rural areas.

 

[BIGVOODOO]

We have a pretty low bar for what's considered slavery.

OP: "I'm a slave!"
*walks away from job with zero repercussions*

Pharmacy is a medical profession with the primary purpose of improving the health of the public. When you have to choose between properly consulting a patient and performing a proper DUR, or half-ass them to keep up with the unrealistic amount of work and metrics you have to finish and achieve, then something is not right. When a job that should be done by 2 RPhs and 4-6 techs according to the pharmacy volume and all the studies that made around pharmacy traffic agree with these numbers, but they cut the staff by half to save money, then something is not right. When you have to work 10-14 hrs a day non-stop, like a robot, with no real break and contemplate when you need to go to the bathroom, that's inhumane. Modern slavery is not about picking cotton from the fields; it is about taking advantage of professionals and ask them for unrealistic goals because of student loans, bills, mortgages, ...etc. And, there are always repercussions because you take a significant risk of losing your house, car, not paying your loans if you cant find a job in a saturated market that was created by them. It's 2018, and the repercussion doesn't have to be shot in the back if you run away from the field.

Modern slavery is about not giving an F about your wellbeing, and after using and exhausting you for years, they will replace you in a second to save 10k/yr by hiring a new grad, although you were doing your job well.

Just a thought!!

 

[BIGVOODOO]

I mean I like hyperbole as much as the next guy but something about the term 'slavery' rubs me the wrong way. Like a six figure job is "slavery"? Give me a break.

Kudos to OP for getting out of CVS though.

six figures is a carrot on a stick, it's peanuts compared to the multimillions in salaries, bonuses, and other privileges the top of the corp make and get. I understand they are executives and they have o be paid way more, but also we all heard about the corruption in the top of the pyramid in every big corp in the world.

 

[BIGVOODOO]

According to Social/economic Marxists we all are

I agree with you CetiAlphaFive. However, could i suggest avoiding marxism or socialism since they freak out most of the western world?

Aside from Marxism and socialism, when we reach a point to pay 35-40% tax a year, 2000-6000 insurance deductible with high copayments and copay, difficulty in accessing healthcare, especially if you have a serious problem. When you take a full house price as a loan to receive education, and when banks own your life since they own your house, car, credit cards, and idk what else. What happens when something happens to you and you can't work in these conditions due to health or family reasons? They will come after your ass. Where is the minimum life security? where's the peace of mind? When you can't spend time and take care of your kids, what is my purpose in life then?

 

[BIGVOODOO]

Since you have experience with independents, have you looked into other states and areas? Independents are becoming more rare but there are a few around in very rural areas.

PBMs, insurances, and pharmacy boards are making it harder and harder; regulatory and profit wise. I have been already looking to establish a new one and I might end doing so if I cant find a new job.

Thank you for the thought johnpharm01

 

[Gastrapathy]

That is not modern slavery. It’s a lousy job that you quit without other good options. If you don’t know the difference, start here:

What is Modern Slavery?

 

[BIGVOODOO]

That is not modern slavery. It’s a lousy job that you quit without other good options. If you don’t know the difference, start here:

What is Modern Slavery?

Sex trafficking and slaving is just slavery, the word modern is just because it’s happening in the current times.

Within the context of retail phramacy and many other jobs, i believe this is financial/career slavery becaue you are forced to accept unpleasant conditions. It is 2018 for gods sake, my dad has been as a pharmacist for 30 years, he was able to afford college with a min wage job and worked his ass off but had enough time for his wellbeing and his family.

Apologies for any typos!

 

[Gastrapathy]

Again, no. There is nothing new about bad jobs with unpleasant conditions in modern times. Using the word slavery is wrong and diminishes the horror and evil that slavery is. No one is going to rape you, torture you or deprive you of your liberty. CVS may be a lousy company but you were never a slave. You were paid and you could quit. This is just self indulgent nonsense.

 

[Gastrapathy]

https://notorture.org/

Some of these patients were enslaved. Read their stories. See if you can tell the difference and why it’s not ok to devalue the word.

 

[BIGVOODOO]

Again, no. There is nothing new about bad jobs with unpleasant conditions in modern times. Using the word slavery is wrong and diminishes the horror and evil that slavery is. No one is going to rape you, torture you or deprive you of your liberty. CVS may be a lousy company but you were never a slave. You were paid and you could quit. This is just self indulgent nonsense.

I respect your opinion, but I don’t agree with it. Also, i do not like you calling me self-indulgent becaue you do not know me and this is just a different opinion than yours, so please, let’s keep it that way. It’s very easy to call names behind a keyboard.

I believe physical and mental abuse is wrong. And, being forced to accept unpleasant conditons because you have to pay back loans or put bread on the table is a new form of slavery. I understand your point regarding the rape and torture, but it doesn’t have to be that to be Slavery.

 

[Gastrapathy]

What would happen if you didn’t pay back the money you chose to borrow? Would you be deprived of liberty? No.

You’ve never been a slave. That is not an opinion.

I can call myself an astronaut because I’ve been in a hot air balloon. After all, it’s my opinion that hot air balloon rides are close enough to moon landings that I qualify.

And you really are sheltered if you think being forced to accept bad work conditions is new. Your CVS job was better than nearly every job that existed a century ago, yet those people weren’t slaves.

Slavery still exists in this world. You just had a ****ty job.

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

I've heard a lot about CVS retail from those at my corner pharmacy and from those who moved out of pharmacy. I've heard they try to keep you from moving up or from moving to the Caremark side. From what I'm told (obviously can't speak from personal experience) it gets better if you're able to find away into the PBM side.

 

[BIGVOODOO]

What would happen if you didn’t pay back the money you chose to borrow? Would you be deprived of liberty? No.

You’ve never been a slave. That is not an opinion.

I can call myself an astronaut because I’ve been in a hot air balloon. After all, it’s my opinion that hot air balloon rides are close enough to moon landings that I qualify.

And you really are sheltered if you think being forced to accept bad work conditions is new. Your CVS job was better than nearly every job that existed a century ago, yet those people weren’t slaves.

Slavery still exists in this world. You just had a ****ty job.

I believe you are following a strict literal meaning of the word slavery; following the word of original very closely and exactly. Maybe look at it figuratively or metaphorically and you would understand what many pharmacists experience nowadays.

Thank you for your insights on the actual meaning and horrors of slavery. And, I understand the difference between your point and my point.

Have a good night!

 

[BIGVOODOO]

I've heard a lot about CVS retail from those at my corner pharmacy and from those who moved out of pharmacy. I've heard they try to keep you from moving up or from moving to the Caremark side. From what I'm told (obviously can't speak from personal experience) it gets better if you're able to find away into the PBM side.

Saisri_PharmStdnt, I agree with you, most of my pharmacy colleagues and myself experienced something similar. Please do not let these talks discourage you from pursuing a pharmacy career. Pharmacy is more than retail, and not all retail is bad, and not all CVS is bad. If you do not mind, I would like to advise you on the following; learn and acquire as many skills as possible, learn and love pharmacy, do not just worry about passing exams. Be proactive and plan ahead. Look at residencies and fellowships. Grow a professional network. Best of luck!

 

[JustFillIt]

Retail is a daily nightmare. But I have personally verified 60k rx’s In the past 12 months, delt with insane people both in the public and behind the counter, and all under minimal technician hours. It’s honestly horrible.

But I don’t know if I buy into the notion that higher volume means higher med errors. I refuse to budge in my workflow. If the wait time gets up to 40 minutes during rush hour I would rather people wait than to get a wrong Rx. You just gotta set your limits.

With that being said - it’s not at all slavery. I take in about 140k a year... last time I checked - the definition of slavery is to work with no return. It’s terrible I won’t lie. I’m pretty sure my cardiovascular system and general mental health suffers at time but you will get that anywhere. There are worse things in life than having a job - right?

Edit: oh and - most of the time I work 40-45 hours a week. Not bad.... when I was in my early twenties I worked 50-55 hours a week as a general merchandise manager at a big box store for 35k a week. You should have seen how hard I worked for that paycheck. Have you ever had to buy a special paste to put i. Your buttcrack to keep it from chafing from hustling so bad in the heat all day long?! We don’t have it so bad - really. We make good money, work good hours, and our buttcheeks are in good repair. This is a good thing

Just for proof that this is a real thing: Amazon product

 

[BIGVOODOO]

Retail is a daily nightmare. But I have personally verified 60k rx’s In the past 12 months, delt with insane people both in the public and behind the counter, and all under minimal technician hours. It’s honestly horrible.

But I don’t know if I buy into the notion that higher volume means higher med errors. I refuse to budge in my workflow. If the wait time gets up to 40 minutes during rush hour I would rather people wait than to get a wrong Rx. You just gotta set your limits.

With that being said - it’s not at all slavery. I take in about 140k a year... last time I checked - the definition of slavery is to work with no return. It’s terrible I won’t lie. I’m pretty sure my cardiovascular system and general mental health suffers at time but you will get that anywhere. There are worse things in life than having a job - right?

Higher volume, with minimum help, and tons of metrics means a higher chance of med errors. In addition, working long hours affects your focus and attention span.
That being said, it does not mean that you have to make a mistake. However, do you believe you spend enough time on DURs? Do you feel sometimes that you wish to spend more time with your patients?

IMHO, I believe the 140k is the carrot! You do not shelf merchandise here, you deal with peoples' wellbeing and lives. The worst thing, if something happens to any patient, it is your license on the line, not CVS

And you are absolutely right, there are worse things in life than having a sh*** job!

LMAO about the butt cream

Thanks for your input JustFillIt

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Again, no. There is nothing new about bad jobs with unpleasant conditions in modern times. Using the word slavery is wrong and diminishes the horror and evil that slavery is. No one is going to rape you, torture you or deprive you of your liberty. CVS may be a lousy company but you were never a slave. You were paid and you could quit. This is just self indulgent nonsense.

Please elaborate.
Do you think the average person on the street could describe modern human trafficking or articulate who the average victim is?

If no, then how does the hyperbolic use diminish the term?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Retail is a daily nightmare. But I have personally verified 60k rx’s In the past 12 months, delt with insane people both in the public and behind the counter, and all under minimal technician hours. It’s honestly horrible.

But I don’t know if I buy into the notion that higher volume means higher med errors. I refuse to budge in my workflow. If the wait time gets up to 40 minutes during rush hour I would rather people wait than to get a wrong Rx. You just gotta set your limits.

With that being said - it’s not at all slavery. I take in about 140k a year... last time I checked - the definition of slavery is to work with no return. It’s terrible I won’t lie. I’m pretty sure my cardiovascular system and general mental health suffers at time but you will get that anywhere. There are worse things in life than having a job - right?

Edit: oh and - most of the time I work 40-45 hours a week. Not bad.... when I was in my early twenties I worked 50-55 hours a week as a general merchandise manager at a big box store for 35k a week. You should have seen how hard I worked for that paycheck. Have you ever had to buy a special paste to put i. Your buttcrack to keep it from chafing from hustling so bad in the heat all day long?! We don’t have it so bad - really. We make good money, work good hours, and our buttcheeks are in good repair. This is a good thing

Just for proof that this is a real thing: Amazon product

I'd use butt paste to make $35k per week

 

[rph3664]

Phar-Mor collapsed 20 years ago because of this philosophy. It's nothing new.

BigVoodoo, I left the profession 6 years ago because it had mutated into something I no longer recognized.

 

[JustFillIt]

Higher volume, with minimum help, and tons of metrics means a higher chance of med errors. In addition, working long hours affects your focus and attention span.
That being said, it does not mean that you have to make a mistake. However, do you believe you spend enough time on DURs? Do you feel sometimes that you wish to spend more time with your patients?

IMHO, I believe the 140k is the carrot! You do not shelf merchandise here, you deal with peoples' wellbeing and lives. The worst thing, if something happens to any patient, it is your license on the line, not CVS

And you are absolutely right, there are worse things in life than having a sh*** job!

LMAO about the butt cream

Thanks for your input JustFillIt

Look you have a good point about the DURs. However I have found that some DURs are more important than others. The ol’ Sertraline/naproxen dur gets about 30 millaseconds of my attention. When a warfarin/Coumadin dur pops up it gets about 5–15 minutes of my time. I dunno - I just make it work.... It’s the world we live in. I subscribe to the idea “you can not kick against the pricks”

 

[rph3664]

Not bad.... when I was in my early twenties I worked 50-55 hours a week as a general merchandise manager at a big box store for 35k a week.Amazon product

Did you mean 35K a YEAR?

 

[JustFillIt]

Did you mean 35K a YEAR?

Haha yes I did mean annually

 

[BIGVOODOO]

Phar-Mor collapsed 20 years ago because of this philosophy. It's nothing new.

BigVoodoo, I left the profession 6 years ago because it had mutated into something I no longer recognized.

rph3664, if I may ask, what do you do now? help a brother!!!

 

[Momus]

I feel floater jobs are easier than staff/manager. Just verify right and make sure prescriptions are done correctly. Whatever nasty customers you have on that day, you won't see them again. Next day/week, it's a different store, the problem customers aren't your problem anymore. If you can't handle a floating position, you can't handle retail.

 

[BIGVOODOO]

I feel floater jobs are easier than staff/manager. Just verify and make sure prescriptions are done. Whatever nasty customers you have on that day, you won't see them again. Next day/week, it's a different store. If you can't handle a floating position, you can't handle retail.

I strongly disagree with you.

As a floater, you are usually sent to the stores that no one wants to work at, on days when there is not enough help or with the weakest techs on their teams. It is not about nasty customers, it is about the functionality of the store on that day. Add to it, floaters are blamed for any and everything from techs, staff, and managers.

Also, you have no hand in choosing your schedule, usually you take the worst shifts, weekends, and holidays. Plus, most of the floaters are exempt salary employees with no guaranteed set of hours.

The idea of walking in as a floater and just let the day go by and do the minimum is completely unethical because any pharmacist no matters the title should aim at solving any problem he/she faces on their sift.

On the contrary, not every staff pharmacist can do floating, but any good floater can work anywhere.

I understand you might deal with some "no care attitude" floaters before, as it is a taboo. However, not all of them are like that. And, sooner or later they come back to that store and deal again with these nasty customers.

 

[Momus]

I strongly do not agree with you.

As a floater, you are usually sent to the stores that no one wants to work at, on days when there is not enough help or with the weakest techs on their teams. It is not about nasty customers, it is about the functionality of the store on that day. Add to it, floaters are blamed for any and everything from techs, staff, and managers.

Also, you have no hand in choosing your schedule, usually you take the worst shifts, weekends, and holidays. Plus, most of the floaters are exempt salary employees with no guaranteed set of hours.

The idea of walking in as a floater and just let the day go by and do the minimum is completely unethical because any pharmacist no matters the title should aim at solving any problem he/she faces on their sift.

On the contrary, not every staff pharmacist can do floating, but any good floater can work anywhere.

I understand you might deal with some "no care attitude" floaters before, as it is a taboo. However, not all of them are like that. And, sooner or later they come back to that store and deal again with these nasty customers.

In my experience floating, it's one of the easier job, I did all three jobs as a staff, a manager and a floater. Floating by far is easier for me than as a staff/manager. The schedule can suck, sometimes you close more than you open, sometimes vice versa. Techs/manager/staff are always happy I am filling in for the day, not some other random floaters. When I use to pick up OT shifts, I always finish my work well and don't leave any mess. If you get blamed for everything or they don't tell you to come back when you finish your shift, it's because you suck and the techs don't like you. I/my techs don't tell a crappy floater to come back again LMAO...

 

[Gastrapathy]

Please elaborate.
Do you think the average person on the street could describe modern human trafficking or articulate who the average victim is?

If no, then how does the hyperbolic use diminish the term?

You have a doctorate right? He’s not trying average person on the street. It diminishes the importance of stopping slavery by adding upper middle class (at worst) people who don’t like their jobs. It dilutes the meaning.

He wrote “true definition”. It makes you all seem like spoiled children to think that’s remotely reasonable.

 

[Grampus Mud]

That is not modern slavery. It’s a lousy job that you quit without other good options. If you don’t know the difference, start here:

Hard to believe, but we just passed the tenth anniversary of his death. Can you imagine what Carlin would saying now?

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

Saisri_PharmStdnt, I agree with you, most of my pharmacy colleagues and myself experienced something similar. Please do not let these talks discourage you from pursuing a pharmacy career. Pharmacy is more than retail, and not all retail is bad, and not all CVS is bad. If you do not mind, I would like to advise you on the following; learn and acquire as many skills as possible, learn and love pharmacy, do not just worry about passing exams. Be proactive and plan ahead. Look at residencies and fellowships. Grow a professional network. Best of luck!

Thank you I'm working on a lot of internal networking as I'm already on the PBM side. I've been here for 15 years now, so by the time I finish my pharmD, I'll be hitting 20. I'm hoping that helps me out!

 

[M0df]

Hello, RPh community,

After a couple of months with CVS as a floater, I quit due to what I felt was a mental and physical abuse to the RPh and techs. I told my DM it's not ethical to understaff every pharmacy I go in order to save more money. Hence, it could overwork the pharmacist and might lead to med errors.

After I quit, I looked at the retail pharmacy industry to find out that this has been a common practice from retail chains. I am not going to get into the forming a union or sue the state boards who sleep with big corps in the same bed, because I do not have a big hope of this to happen.

I am now jobless, and I'm looking at different options and career paths, I would like to get your thoughts and any input regarding that matter.

Best,

I am not a slave RPh, lol

Look. I don't enjoy the current trends in retail pharmacy but if you/your father sold your store to CVS, then you actually had more choices than most of us. Your choice was to find additional streams of revenue or to improve your margins. Could you have retained the business if instead of 2 full time pharmacists generating CVS type salary, you cut it down to 1 full time and 1 part time? or even 1 pharmacist? That was a choice too. That is what makes it hard to compete with CVS. They will use 1 pharmacist when you could use 2.

I know I'm oversimplifying but when you trade in your independent gig for CVS, your situation is rather predictable.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

According to Social/economic Marxists we all are

That's wage slavery. Which is completely different than "modern slavery."

 

[Grampus Mud]

Wait a minute, isn't the H1B abuse a form of human trafficking? These silicon valley companies lure foreigners with over-inflated promises only to end up as indentured servants on a company campus?

Or for that matter, the schools abusing the federal credit guarantees to inflate labor supply? Is there a RICO case there?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Hello, RPh community,

After a couple of months with CVS as a floater, I quit due to what I felt was a mental and physical abuse to the RPh and techs. I told my DM it's not ethical to understaff every pharmacy I go in order to save more money. Hence, it could overwork the pharmacist and might lead to med errors.

After I quit, I looked at the retail pharmacy industry to find out that this has been a common practice from retail chains. I am not going to get into the forming a union or sue the state boards who sleep with big corps in the same bed, because I do not have a big hope of this to happen.

I am now jobless, and I'm looking at different options and career paths, I would like to get your thoughts and any input regarding that matter.

Best,

I am not a slave RPh, lol

You got my respect for quitting, as I quit cvs for the exact same reason. I was fortunate enough to find a job to transition into. After working for cvs, i had no interest in going to another big chain retail. I applied to a few independents and hospitals. I was hired by a decent size independent. Other than a couple of a-hole coworkers, about 95% of work is significantly better than cvs. No stress from the job itself. I would suggest trying to find an independent to work for. You can actually do what you're supposed to as a pharmacist.

Now this would obviously vary depending on which part of the country you're at. Here in Texas, there are still decent jobs left... not sure how long it will last though since two schools have just opened up a few years ago and will have at least 200 extra grads pouring into job market soon...

 

[ImmunoglobulinE]

Sex trafficking and slaving is just slavery, the word modern is just because it’s happening in the current times.

Within the context of retail phramacy and many other jobs, i believe this is financial/career slavery becaue you are forced to accept unpleasant conditions. It is 2018 for gods sake, my dad has been as a pharmacist for 30 years, he was able to afford college with a min wage job and worked his ass off but had enough time for his wellbeing and his family.

Apologies for any typos!

If you don't mind moving to rural areas, the work conditions of retail is generally much better: because not so many people would take a job out there. As a result, the DM tends to respect RPH a little more.I am saying this because I am an F-1 student and I got a job out there that would go through the rigorous paperwork of H1B sponsorship. Also, the volume is less so you have more time to check DUR and do other patient care stuff. Another advice is to move to California, as they have very strict labor laws, even the mighty retail chain slave-masters are forced to abide. You get a 30 minutes lunch break and get paid OT for every second you work over 8 hours daily.

In my experience floating, it's one of the easier job, I did all three jobs as a staff, a manager and a floater. Floating by far is easier for me than as a staff/manager. The schedule can suck, sometimes you close more than you open, sometimes vice versa. Techs/manager/staff are always happy I am filling in for the day, not some other random floaters. When I use to pick up OT shifts, I always finish my work well and don't leave any mess. If you get blamed for everything or they don't tell you to come back when you finish your shift, it's because you suck and the techs don't like you. I/my techs don't tell a crappy floater to come back again LMAO...

Been an intern with Walgreens for 3 years I agree with what you re saying. I think been a floater is easy, because you can getaway with half-assing your job, while the staff rph / manager deals with whatever mess you left behind. Been an experience retail pharmacist, I have a few questions for you:

1.What advice would you give to a new grad, to be a great floater and staff quicker?
2. Which one is easier picking up OT as a staff pharmacist or as a floater?

You got my respect for quitting, as I quit cvs for the exact same reason. I was fortunate enough to find a job to transition into. After working for cvs, i had no interest in going to another big chain retail. I applied to a few independents and hospitals. I was hired by a decent size independent. Other than a couple of a-hole coworkers, about 95% of work is significantly better than cvs. No stress from the job itself. I would suggest trying to find an independent to work for. You can actually do what you're supposed to as a pharmacist.

Now this would obviously vary depending on which part of the country you're at. Here in Texas, there are still decent jobs left... not sure how long it will last though since two schools have just opened up a few years ago and will have at least 200 extra grads pouring into job market soon...

What part of Texas specifically are these decent jobs left? The DFW area use to be a good hub for jobs but that changed last year. I know Houston, Texas is definitely out the questions 230 pharmacist getting licensed this year that would be boggling heads looking for jobs. Austin and San Antonio are gone even other cities like El paso and Mcallen and west Texas that use to have a good job market are starting to approach saturation.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

If you don't mind moving to rural areas, the work conditions of retail is generally much better: because not so many people would take a job out there. As a result, the DM tends to respect RPH a little more.I am saying this because I am an F-1 student and I got a job out there that would go through the rigorous paperwork of H1B sponsorship. Also, the volume is less so you have more time to check DUR and do other patient care stuff. Another advice is to move to California, as they have very strict labor laws, even the mighty retail chain slave-masters are forced to abide. You get a 30 minutes lunch break and get paid OT for every second you work over 8 hours daily.



Been an intern with Walgreens for 3 years I agree with what you re saying. I think been a floater is easy, because you can getaway with half-assing your job, while the staff rph / manager deals with whatever mess you left behind. Been an experience retail pharmacist, I have a few questions for you:

1.What advice would you give to a new grad, to be a great floater and staff quicker?
2. Which one is easier picking up OT as a staff pharmacist or as a floater?



What part of Texas specifically are these decent jobs left? The DFW area use to be a good hub for jobs but that changed last year. I know Houston, Texas is definitely out the questions 230 pharmacist getting licensed this year that would be boggling heads looking for jobs. Austin and San Antonio are gone even other cities like El paso and Mcallen and west Texas that use to have a good job market are starting to approach saturation.

DFW metro area may be getting saturated but I know there are still good amount of jobs in the surrounding areas. I know for sure in the northern areas like Frisco and Allen are growing. Or Keller and north of FW area are building new CVSs and WGs. Even in Decatur I know there were quite a few job openings a few months ago.

Unfortunately, Baylor in Garland just shut down so that may effect the market alittle bit but that depends on if those pharmacists were wanting to stay in hospital or go to retail.

 

[Mambo#5]

Again, no. There is nothing new about bad jobs with unpleasant conditions in modern times. Using the word slavery is wrong and diminishes the horror and evil that slavery is. No one is going to rape you, torture you or deprive you of your liberty. CVS may be a lousy company but you were never a slave. You were paid and you could quit. This is just self indulgent nonsense.

I disagree. In the past we did not have all the technology that we do today. In came the computer. It has sped up work processes, but on the down side, they monitor your every move and deliver more work when they sense little activity.

In the past, there was more freedom at work, since we didn’t have computers monitoring us or dictating workflow. The term “Modern slavery” is not the same as a bad job. “Modern slavery” would not exist without computers. It’s the ability to monitor you constantly and designed to keep you working nonstop from start till finish, doing the work of 2 or more people, without breaks(that you are not penalized for).

 

[Modest_anteater]

Hello, RPh community,

After a couple of months with CVS as a floater, I quit due to what I felt was a mental and physical abuse to the RPh and techs. I told my DM it's not ethical to understaff every pharmacy I go in order to save more money. Hence, it could overwork the pharmacist and might lead to med errors.

After I quit, I looked at the retail pharmacy industry to find out that this has been a common practice from retail chains. I am not going to get into the forming a union or sue the state boards who sleep with big corps in the same bed, because I do not have a big hope of this to happen.

I am now jobless, and I'm looking at different options and career paths, I would like to get your thoughts and any input regarding that matter.

Best,

I am not a slave RPh, lol

First off. Congrats on making the right choice quiting your job. Many pharmacists have committed suicide so you literally might have just saved your own life by avoiding serious depression.

Unfortunately you need to go back to school to get a degree that's in demand. I suggest
App Academy
Average starting salary is over 100,000 USD and you can be done with their program in less than 3 months and it's FREE (you only pay if you get a job after paying more than 70,000, you pay 17% for two years of your new income)

 

[Grampus Mud]

I disagree. In the past we did not have all the technology that we do today. In came the computer. It has sped up work processes, but on the down side, they monitor your every move and deliver more work when they sense little activity.

In the past, there was more freedom at work, since we didn’t have computers monitoring us or dictating workflow. The term “Modern slavery” is not the same as a bad job. “Modern slavery” would not exist without computers. It’s the ability to monitor you constantly and designed to keep you working nonstop from start till finish, doing the work of 2 or more people, without breaks(that you are not penalized for).

Excellent points. I've always said that this technology only sped up the amount of chaff thrown at us to exhaust us from the most important task of making sure the right med is in the right bottle with the right label.

Also, these most insidious mouse traps the chains have cobbled together makes the goal of getting to the mountain top and enjoying a little down time unattainable. Psychologically it's important to get that endorphin fix of conquering a workload and pattiing yourself on the back if just for a moment as you look upon the department clean and ordered, problem box and queues empty, fancying yourself the pharmacy Hero.

But, noooo. God forbid if a peon has a moment to diaphragmatically breathe since the department is chronically understaffed engendering an unending triage situation.

 

[beautifulrobot]

I disagree. In the past we did not have all the technology that we do today. In came the computer. It has sped up work processes, but on the down side, they monitor your every move and deliver more work when they sense little activity.

In the past, there was more freedom at work, since we didn’t have computers monitoring us or dictating workflow. The term “Modern slavery” is not the same as a bad job. “Modern slavery” would not exist without computers. It’s the ability to monitor you constantly and designed to keep you working nonstop from start till finish, doing the work of 2 or more people, without breaks(that you are not penalized for).

Inherit in any definition of slavery, modern or otherwise, is that the labor you are performing is forced. That is, if you refuse to do the labor demanded of you, you are tortured until you comply, or you are killed. You have no freedom in terms of what work you choose to do to begin with, and you cannot refuse to do the work that is demanded of you without punishment. The person demanding your labor owns you when you are a slave. You may be a slave to wages if the loss of wages results in immediate material harm to your safety (i.e. your only source for covering the cost of basic necessities is from wage income; this is generally not the case in the US as you can often receive basic necessities from charities or government agencies), but that is still distinctly different from being a slave to any particular person/company. Slaves, by definition, do not make wages - you do not receive a carrot when you are a slave, you receive a stick.

Here is a number of reasons why working for CVS is not modern slavery:

1) CVS did not force you to go to school and take out student loans
2) CVS did not force you to apply to work at CVS
3) CVS did not force you to stay and work at CVS only
4) CVS compensates you for your work with money that you are free to do whatever you want with (i.e. CVS does not force you to spend all your wages on CVS-supplied goods)

And by force, I mean, CVS never literally told you you have to work as a pharmacist for them without compensation or they will kill you. That is what slavery is. Anything short of forcing you to perform labor without compensation can be labeled as all sorts of things (undignified, inhumane, unhealthy, unsustainable, unsafe, etc.), but it is simply not accurate to label it as slavery, because it is not forced labor.

 

[Grampus Mud]

Inherit in any definition of slavery, modern or otherwise, is that the labor you are performing is forced. That is, if you refuse to do the labor demanded of you, you are tortured until you comply, or you are killed. You have no freedom in terms of what work you choose to do to begin with, and you cannot refuse to do the work that is demanded of you without punishment. The person demanding your labor owns you when you are a slave. You may be a slave to wages if the loss of wages results in immediate material harm to your safety (i.e. your only source for covering the cost of basic necessities is from wage income; this is generally not the case in the US as you can often receive basic necessities from charities or government agencies), but that is still distinctly different from being a slave to any particular person/company. Slaves, by definition, do not make wages - you do not receive a carrot when you are a slave, you receive a stick.

Here is a number of reasons why working for CVS is not modern slavery:

1) CVS did not force you to go to school and take out student loans
2) CVS did not force you to apply to work at CVS
3) CVS did not force you to stay and work at CVS only
4) CVS compensates you for your work with money that you are free to do whatever you want with (i.e. CVS does not force you to spend all your wages on CVS-supplied goods)

And by force, I mean, CVS never literally told you you have to work as a pharmacist for them without compensation or they will kill you. That is what slavery is. Anything short of forcing you to perform labor without compensation can be labeled as all sorts of things (undignified, inhumane, unhealthy, unsustainable, unsafe, etc.), but it is simply not accurate to label it as slavery, because it is not forced labor.

But to be fair to Mambo, you're assuming a fair marketplace for pharmacy labor. There simply is no other bid for labor when the vast majority of employment is via a major corporation. Ever since 2008, bankruptcy and failure of the big boys was taken off the table. There has been the grossest misallocation of capital since and the middle class has suffered for it. With the hurdle rate of capital so low ( interest rate), it's impossible for the little guy to hang his own shingle and compete against the behemoths. Look about you the next time you drive home. Every stinkin business on the road has a link to Wall Street.