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Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Pillmaster, May 26, 2005.
Um any job can be looked up. I could be a family doctor right now.
My base salary at walmart was 125k after being out < 1 year. Pulled in 141k from just a few extra shifts.
I'm looking at all these posts, and I notice the common theme that pharmacy is horrible and you'll regret it for life. I'm just a junior, so I have time. Should I just skip out on pharmacy and work towards medical school and become a physician? It seems like everyone hates their job. :/
I know this is a dead post/poster banned, but isn't this called "quorum" sensing....not QUANTUM, as in quantum physics (maybe where he was confused in the nomenclature) or quantum leap (LOL). I believe recurrent admin of Azithromycin is said to disrupt quorum sensing communicative activities in Pseudomonas, etc biofilms. Anyways...just being a nerd and thought I might be cool to pass along something about that that related to pharmacy, and BTW this troll was kinda funny
Yes! If people think things are bad now, just wait until what the next few years will bring. I wish I would have done something besides become a pharmacist. It's like walking on egg shells now.
Thank you for the response, I'll probably start looking into pre-med and becoming a physician. It's always good to have this sort of insight in something so important. Again, thank you.
I truly wish I could have known it would get this bad.. There were still sign on bonuses and articles about ''no end of pharmacist shortage in sight'' when I was doing pre-pharmacy and started pharmacy school. Now it's changed a lot. I could have been a physician now if I had chosen med school. Now I'm in my thirties, too late now.
You can still make money doing pharmacy if you are lucky enough to get a job. A lot of pharmD's go onto medical school because they realize the truth to pharmacy (hyper saturation, low barriers to entry, poor working conditions, stress ect).
30's isn't too old for med school. Do it now or you will regret it the rest of your life
Similar story here
When I was pre pharmacy I didn't hear anything about saturation. Heard about it after I got accepted and then every year the news got worst and worst and now here I am as a licensed RPh. I might honestly go back to do something else. I'm 25 so hopefully not too old. I was too naïve too act then, maybe I should get out now before it's too late.
I started school in 2008 and got all the info prior to the economy crash on how pharmacy is a fantastic field. I loved science and wanted to go into healthcare so I did pre-pharm work and will graduate pharmacy school this year.
My friends who graduated last year got jobs/are in residency and those with jobs seem to be doing ok. I guess so long as you find a job you should be good. I'm hoping I'll be able to find one in an at least decent area which seems possible since I'm willing to relocate. I'm hoping maybe something will happen with provider status or laws regarding insurance reimbursement (as has been done in some states) to give somewhat of a little kick to the profession.
As long as you are willing to relocate anywhere in the US I don't think you will have trouble finding a job until around 2020 when the supply outpaces demand so much that there will not be jobs available even in rural Idaho.
I'm hoping to live in a decent urban area, but I'll relocate there. Heck I've considered moving to Cleveland, it seems there are job openings there and housing is dirt cheap.
I started pre-pharm at the same time and graduated last year, and even I knew getting a job might be a crapshoot...a bubble doesn't last forever. There were already signs things were going downhill when I started school. I'm sure you'll get something decent, but not everyone will. International students without visas need to be especially careful as so few companies are now willing to sponsor them.
Cleveland was rated the 6th most dangerous city in the US.
It has significant lake effect snow
The city is severely economically depressed
Even with those facts it may be difficult getting a pharmD job in Cleveland in all but the poorest and most dangerous pharmacies.
I think PA school is a good option. 2 years of school and you'd be in demand having a PharmD in addition to being a PA. I'm betting soon PAs will make more than pharmacists. Software engineering is also a fantastic option. 6 figures, office job and sometimes work from home. Don't have to deal with the nasty public too. Seriously I don't see how anyone thinks going to pharmacy school is a good idea anymore. You really won't make much after student loans and the dismal job outlook is terrifying.
If you think the job market is bad now, wait five years when the full effect of 40+ pharmacy schools starts to really take effect. There will be 20% + unemployment for pharmacists. Hopefully you live in a state that has good unemployment compensation.
This. Especially 3 year Pharm.D programs. For every 4 years, they basically graduate an additional class. At least JDs have tier systems.
They graduate one class per year just like the four year programs...
I don't think PA salary will increase that much. They will be saturated too soon.
Math is hard.
Yes but the pharmacists they graduate will be a year younger on average which means another year of them saturating a pharmacist position.
As the pharmacist job markets evolves i think at least two things will happen.
-effective pay rate for pharmacists will decrease as more pharmacists become part time floaters 50 USD/hour at 30 hours a week is 80k a year roughly
-a tier system for school rankings will begin to materialize similar to the law school system
You're right, my off the cuff thinking was way off. It's a difference of one class from year 4 to year infinity since students are continuously matriculated.
It's hard to imagine this happening. I just can't see the retail chains caring at all. At best it may happen on an individual basis, where people start to notice certain schools graduate inferior pharmacists, but I'd argue that sort of system already exists in many people's minds.
That would not really be a tier system. That's just prejudice. Or really poor sampling.
With the number of schools out now, there's no way for an individual to have an idea of how all of them compare. The only distinguishing factor would be "name I recognize" or "name I don't".
But I do agree that pharmacy tiers won't happen. I guess law school has rankings because winning cases depends on it. I'd obviously take a Harvard lawyer over a tier 2 or 3, if all other things were equal.
If being from a better pharmacy school meant you caught more and made more interventions and saved more hospital money or were better at verifying/MTMs and less of a liability in the community (error rate of like 1 in 1 billion), then maybe tiers would matter. But the Rx world now is like MD/DO/Island MD. Usually no one cares where you went.
A colleague and I were discussing this, and the conclusion we came to was unemployment is not a self correcting factor. Look at unemployment for JDs. Law schools still fill up their roster. Most of the people enrolling in them think, "Oh, all of that doesn't affect me. I'll be the one to get a job and set the example." Only having a tighter accrediting body on new schools opening can make a difference.
I live in Cleveland (suburbs). It's nice! Be nice to Cleveland! Only the east side gets lake effect snow!
According to the Pharmacy Manpower Project, there has been a massive fall in demand just recently (biggest fall I've seen on the chart): http://pharmacymanpower.com/
Starting to honestly be terrified as a soon to be new grad.
That's not too bad
Unless my RC skills need some serious work, hasn't the demand index value bounced back from the sub-3.0 bottom it hit in November? In other words, could it be that November 2015 was simply a "fluke" month?
You need to look again and look at what months they are looking at. Last update was November.
Click the trends and generate a graph to see the 10 year decline.
It honestly doesn't look as bad as some of the post I have read make it out to be. Midwest seems like it has been right around 3 for the past 4-5 years, even peaking past 3 for a few months. Seems like the trend will continue that way for a few years at the very least. I know of recent pharmacists that have gotten jobs at a decent distance from their homes in the northern Chicago area.
...I'm not sure we're looking at the same graph. The manpower project has always lagged behind. If anything, the rather sharp drop is more indicative if what's to come.
But anecdotal info about how you know some recent pharmacists that have gotten jobs isn't really informative.
I know it's not very informative. I was just pointing out that the overall data for the past 3-4 years lines up with what people have been telling me about pharmacy job outlook in my area. But of course every case is different.
My take... it depends on where.
If you are a new grad looking for a job Austin, TX and suburbia the answer is good luck finding a job.
If you looking for a job in Colby, KS chances are people would fight over you.
Most new grads will not leave the nightlife and singles scene the larger cities offer. That's why they are saturated. However, who wants to live in (go ahead and Google it because I know you don't know where it is) Colby, Kansas.
You mean the preceptor with 20+ years of experience wondering how you don't know something when 5000 things are tossed at you in a week, you take an exam, and never see that topic again until the preceptor asks you about it because its all they do day in and day out. That preceptor?
He's referring to the decrease in knowledge in comparison to students in the past. And it's a fairly common sentiment where I'm from as well. Many preceptors I know are of the opinion that students from newer schools are just not as knowledgeable. And many of them have a general idea of what a student should and shouldn't already know from school.
I have to add to this sentiment. For example, a 4th year student who does not know, between Proair and Advair, if the inhalers were to be used together, which one should precede the other. Even if you don't know off-hand, I would expect some degree of critical thinking would allow one to figure it out. It's a bit of a failure on the side of pharmacy schools to allow these students to be passed on year to year. It may not necessarily be the quality of the education itself, per se, but perhaps rather that these things were excellently taught and the failure was in screening students who do not understand or learn what was taught.
Omg. Wow. Just wow.
So what's the answer? I feel like there are different opinions on this.
Well, it's a bit off-topic. I was just giving an example, but I'm curious - have these differing opinions that you have heard come with supportive reasoning? What have you heard?
I've heard that one should use proair first to open up the lungs so advair can penetrate deeper.
I've also heard that since albuterol competes for the same receptors as salmeterol, if proair is used first, advair won't have its full effect.
You know how the long acting beta agonists all have that warning about increasing the risk of death from asthma? There ya go.
When used without a steroid.
I thought it was for an acute exacerbation of asthma... Otherwise, why would you be giving these at the same time anyhow?
As a med. student, I know about them if you mention their generic name, but not when you mention Proair and Advair. Is that bad? haha.
What really makes Advair not have its full effect is when the patient can't properly take a deep breath because their airways are constricted (so it would be correct to use the SABA first). But you bring up an interesting point, and if a student told me that, I'd actually give them some credit for thinking about receptor pharmacology. I don't know enough about the medication to say whether or not LABAs at usual dosage and with proper usage would be able saturate the beta receptors in the airways...I'm inclined to say no especially since Advair is a dry powder (would probably be deposited onto the bronchioles in a pretty dispersed manner, even more so than aerosols), but they definitely would not be saturating if the inhalations were not deep enough anyways. The second question is, even if they do saturate, LABAs don't bind irreversibly, so it doesn't mean SABAs would be unable to kick them off. I wouldn't discredit the concern that LABAs and SABAs may compete, I think we just don't know enough to substantiate that or base practice off of that.
It would be good to know them by the name that patients know them by...which is often the generic name for meds that are long-time generics (nobody really calls simvastatin Zocor anymore, for example, though recent generics like atorvastatin are still often referred to by brand name), or brand name for brand-name only meds. So you know what they are talking about when they mention them. And Advair just happens just easier to say than fluticasone/salmeterol.
I guess in that case, treating the exacerbation is more important.
Agreed. That's how I interpreted the question so I was blown away that students didn't know albuterol would be used to treat an exacerbation and advair is a maintenance medication.