Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Pillmaster, May 26, 2005.

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  1. Litha

    Litha

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    Mar 26, 2016
    Pacific NW
    Pharmacist
    That makes sense, I appreciate your honesty in sharing that. I would say you could turn the going abroad experience into a positive thing, allowing you to gain a broader perspective and become more focused before pursuing employment. Yes failing the Naplex is a terrible thing, but you passed now and are ready to go!

    Most importantly, apply broadly and be willing to take any position and move if necessary. I would recommend getting licensed in neighboring states or states you could see yourself living in, don't pick ones at random.
     
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  3. rxgirl123456

    rxgirl123456

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    Jan 27, 2016
    Thanks again!
    I'm also looking into getting licensed in neighboring states, and definitely keeping my options open. I'm currently asking around about the living environments in different states because I have classmates who went out of state. Hopefully, everything will eventually work out.
     
  4. rxgirl123456

    rxgirl123456

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    Jan 27, 2016
    Hi, I'm currently in one of the tri-state areas.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  5. Rukn

    Rukn 5+ Year Member

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    I hope everything works out for you
     
  6. rxgirl123456

    rxgirl123456

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    Jan 27, 2016
    Thanks! Sadly, I'm not the only one my year going thru this :(
     
  7. nasacort24hr

    nasacort24hr

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    Nov 7, 2016
    Looks like many people are having hard time getting jobs post graduation. What is the chance to get out of state job with address from a different state? Won't employer be suspicious that you may jump ship as soon as there are chances in your home state?
     
  8. msweph

    msweph 2+ Year Member

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    No
     
  9. Digsbe

    Digsbe 5+ Year Member

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    Pharmacist
    I got a job in an out of state job for me with my past address. However I had a state license here prior to applying. It's possible, but I think many DMs or hiring individuals won't look at you if you have an out of state addreas. Out of applying to 15 jobs I only got 1 interview which resulted in a job. Definitely be licensed in that state first and have 0 reservations about moving. In your interview portray why you want to move and would have no reservations to accepting the position.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
    BidingMyTime and Sine Cura like this.
  10. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less 7+ Year Member

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    Employers probably won't care about you being out of state if it's hard to staff a store. They know you are desperate but so are they. However, you are more desperate as you don't actually have a job probably.

    I never actually met my CVS Rx sup in person before he/she hired me. (Wags on the other hand did require an in-person interview.) Actually having that license is key though because the system will probably reject your app automatically if you don't have it.

    It definitely is annoying to say the least to be on the outside looking in and and know for a fact lazy idiots can cling to their retail sinecure blanket without consequence. Retail is "metricocratic" but hardly meritocratic
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  11. VA77

    VA77 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 6, 2010
    VIRGINIA
    Licensed in 7 states. Good Luck
     
  12. rxgirl123456

    rxgirl123456

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    Jan 27, 2016
    Still no job?? :(:(:(
     
  13. VA77

    VA77 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 6, 2010
    VIRGINIA
    CA VA WV KY TN NC SC. I learned that while doing some relief work for an indy that they gave me some bad references but it is what it is but no marks on my licenses. I've seriously just made a sign to wear saying "Pharmacist for hire". At least maybe I can get a news story on the dropping employment rates and make some students think twice
     
  14. quickpic007

    quickpic007

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    Sep 22, 2016
    CVS has tons of positions in CA and VA.
    did you get the CA lic on exam or reciprocate? Ive been thinking of trying to recip to get a CA lic but it looks like a pain
     
  15. VA77

    VA77 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 6, 2010
    VIRGINIA
    CA is a HUGE pain. The worse one. Took months to get them all the paperwork. Practically wanted a blood sample. Honestly, I can't do retail anymore. It kills me each time I lift that metal gate every morning.
     
    swatchgirl and DaTruMD like this.
  16. masterpharm

    masterpharm

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    Mar 2, 2017
    Going thru this forum and it's amazing how time has changed with this profession.
     
    BidingMyTime likes this.
  17. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Consider that this thread was made in '05 and was at one point called the "Sky is falling megathread." I think we've been aware of the market challenges for some time.
     
    Saiyo and owlegrad like this.
  18. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    Hahahaha I love this response so much.
     
    gwarm01 likes this.
  19. Kebinsaur

    Kebinsaur

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    Jan 2, 2016
    Should i even consider going to pharmacy school? I got accepted to two pharmacy schools in NY and it seems that the job market is absolutely trash. Or should i consider going into nursing or health professions.
     
  20. stoichiometrist

    stoichiometrist 5+ Year Member

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    Computer science, finance, accounting, and engineering are all much better professions compared to pharmacy. They offer better job prospects and a better work-life balance without you having to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years in school.
     
  21. Zelda840

    Zelda840 2+ Year Member

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    Oct 19, 2013
    I don't really understand the purpose of this copy/paste you keep posting. The job market for pharmacy is terrifying and I am most likely going to give up my spot/scholarship, but these careers you keep mentioning are so random. Accounting? Why?
     
    BidingMyTime likes this.
  22. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less 7+ Year Member

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    Most pharmacy students are so bereft of critical thinking and problem solving ability (hence why they are pharmacy students to begin with) I don't see how they can do so well in those types of careers
     
    Nguyen2017 likes this.
  23. nasacort24hr

    nasacort24hr

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    Nov 7, 2016
    I think he listed the reason:
    "They offer better job prospects and a better work-life balance without you having to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years in school."

    Although I doubt they all provide better work-life balance, I agree on the part that you don't have to take out 200k + loans and additional 4 years of school.
     
    Nguyen2017 likes this.
  24. Zelda840

    Zelda840 2+ Year Member

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    767
    Oct 19, 2013
    As do plumbing and many other trades, but just like his examples, they have nothing in common with pharmacy. It just seems like a very random piece of advice to copy/paste so frequently.
     
    BidingMyTime likes this.
  25. giga

    giga 10+ Year Member

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    Aug 23, 2005
    Pharmacist
    USPHS
    I think there is an underlying assumption that most people pursue pharmacy because they think it's a quick and easy way to get a 6-figure salary, not because they actually are interested in pharmacy or related fields.
     
    Nguyen2017 likes this.
  26. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    Also accounting is closer to pharmacy than plumbing, I would think.
     
  27. Saiyo

    Saiyo 7+ Year Member

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    Mar 31, 2010
    BFE
    So when do we think the sky actually going to fall? It seems that everyone's been worried about this for 10+ years, yet year after year all the grads get jobs somewhere. This thread was made 5 years ago, but based on the comments it feels like the job market is more or less the same
     
    PhoenixFire likes this.
  28. quickpic007

    quickpic007

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    Sep 22, 2016
    It will never fall, but I will admit recruiters are calling less and less each year. Sign on bonuses curtailed significantly in the last 2 years.
     
  29. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Oct 7, 2009
    There will always be jobs available, but the market gets tighter every single year. Salaries have been stagnant in many parts of the country as well.

    People who are willing and able to move will probably be alright for a while. I feel like every story about an out of work pharmacist typically starts with an explanation on why they can't relocate.
     
  30. Saiyo

    Saiyo 7+ Year Member

    111
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    Mar 31, 2010
    BFE
    Yeah thats true, not being able to relocate would definitely put a damper on your career unless you get lucky or are truly something special. My classmates did all find jobs, but quite a few were undesirable areas, even some retail jobs were in the outskirts of cities.
     
  31. Same with my class haha. Our job prospect is still at practically 100% give and take some people fail naplex and mpje but they end up finding a job elsewhere. I still see the market as the same... at least from the prospects of my own class. It's all full time offers too. Maybe some in less desirable areas, but a job is still a job.
     
  32. JackFruitLover

    JackFruitLover Member 10+ Year Member

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    Jun 27, 2005
    Interesting stats from Pharmacy Week. Even though there is more schools, the amount of first time p1 enrollment is decreasing. I think we have reached the bottom of the cycle, hopefully

    Pharmacy Student Tipping Point WAS reached in 2015 / Overall New Pharmacy App'l DOWN, Attrition Rate Highest EVER & Enrollment FLAT


    2016 Student Applications, Enrollments and Degrees Conferred are now available from the AACP! See the link at the bottom for the raw data.



    Profile
    2016 - 6,600 faculty, 64,300 students enrolled in professional programs, and 6,000 individuals pursuing graduate study.
    2015 - 6,600 faculty, 64,400 students enrolled in professional programs, and 5,800 individuals pursuing graduate study.
    2014 - 6,600 faculty, 64,800 students enrolled in professional programs, and 4,900 individuals pursuing graduate study.
    2013 - 6,400 faculty, 63,800 students enrolled in professional programs, and 4,800 individuals pursuing graduate study.
    2012 - 6,500 faculty, 62,500 students enrolled in professional programs, and 5,100 individuals pursuing graduate study.


    Fall Enrollments
    2016 - 63,464 students were enrolled in the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.1) as the first professional degree programs.
    2015 - 63,460 students were enrolled in the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.1) as the first professional degree programs.
    2014 - 63,927 students were enrolled in the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.1) as the first professional degree programs.
    2013 - 62,743 students were enrolled in the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.1) as the first professional degree programs.
    2012 - 61,275 students were enrolled in the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.1) as the first professional degree programs.


    Number of accredited U.S. colleges and schools of pharmacy
    2016 - 138 (137 submitted data) (Accredited 131 / Candidate Status 6 / Pre-candidate Status 4 = 141 total / POSSIBLY 20+ MORE SCHOOLS COMING!)
    2015 - 135 (133 submitted data)
    2014 - 133 (131 submitted data)
    2013 - 130 (127 submitted data)
    2012 - 129 (127 submitted data)


    Applications
    2016 - 78,514 2.53% Increase over 2015 BUT 4 More Schools since 2015! Applications submitted to first professional degree programs at schools and colleges of pharmacy.
    2015 - 76,525 10.7% Decrease! Applications received by colleges and schools of pharmacy for every one entering student enrolled is no longer being tracked and/or published.
    2014 - 85,754 5.5 applications were received by colleges and schools of pharmacy for every one entering student enrolled in fall 2014.
    2013 - 87,956 5.6 applications were received by colleges and schools of pharmacy for every one entering student enrolled in fall 2013.
    2012 - 99,821 6.4 applications were received by colleges and schools of pharmacy for every one entering student enrolled in fall 2012.
    2011 - 112,000 Approx. This ratio for 2010-11 was 7.0 applications for every one entering student in fall 2011.


    Enrollment (Enrollments in all professional years rose 0.4 percent; however, the number of first professional year enrollments decreased 1.5 percent.)
    2016 - 14,556 0.0386% increase. This is the largest number of degrees conferred in the history of pharmacy education.
    2015 - 13,994 1.1 % increase. The number of first professional year enrollments decreased 0.6 percent.
    2014 - 13,838 4.8 % increase.
    2013 - 13,207 3.8% increase
    2012 - 12,719 6.6% increase
    2011 - 11,931


    Attrition rate
    2016 - 12.0% The attrition rate includes academic dismissals, student withdrawals, and delayed graduations. Increasing over last 12+ years from near zero in early 2000's!
    2015 - 11.6%
    2014 - 10.3%
    2013 - 11.1%
    2012 - 10.2%


    Pharm.D. degrees conferred to individuals already holding a professional baccalaureate in pharmacy Decreasing over last 5 years!
    2016 - 326 Increased by 16.3 percent from 2015-16
    2015 - 273 Decreased by 19.5 percent from 2013-14.
    2014 - 339
    2013 - 344
    2012 - 444


    Number of individuals enrolled in postbaccalaureate Pharm.D. Decreasing over last 5 years!
    2016 - 840 The number of individuals enrolled in postbaccalaureate Pharm.D. 2 programs decreased by 10.3% to 840 from 936 enrolled in fall 2015.
    2015 - 936 The number of individuals enrolled in postbaccalaureate Pharm.D. 2 programs increased slightly to 936 from 935 enrolled in fall 2014.
    2014 - 935 The number of Pharm.D.2 students enrolled (n=935) decreased by 16.4 percent from fall 2013.
    2013 - 1,118 The number of Pharm.D.2 students enrolled (n=1,118) decreased by 11.3 percent from fall 2012.
    2012 - 1,260 The number of Pharm.D.2 students enrolled (n=1,260) decreased by 6.0 percent from fall 2011.


    M.S. degrees conferred Increased 42.1 percent in 2015-16!
    2016 - 1,023 The number of M.S. degrees conferred increased 42.1 percent in 2015-16 and the number of Ph.D. degrees conferred decreased 2.5 percent.
    2015 - 720 7.1 decrease
    2014 - 775 18.3% increase
    2013 - 655
    2012 - 681


    First professional degrees conferred No change
    2016 - 60.4% Women & 38.6% Men
    2015 - 61.6% Women & 38.4% Men
    2014 - 60.4% Women & 39.6% Men
    2013 - 61.7% Women & 38.3% Men
    2012 - 61.2% Women & 38.8% Men
     
  33. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Oct 7, 2009
    Interesting trend, but we still have a long way to go to balance things out. The idea of 20+ new schools on the way is really frightening.
     
    msweph likes this.
  34. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    But if overall enrollment is down, who cares?
     
    PhoenixFire likes this.
  35. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Oct 7, 2009
    The total enrollment only decreased by a modest amount and is still way higher than it needs to be. 20 new schools certainly won't make it better.

    Positive take: the massive and increasing attrition rate coupled with the higher NAPLEX failure rates shows that we aren't just handing out degrees and licenses to just anyone. I hope this trend continues and word gets out. It's not that I'm being greedy and don't want the next generation to have a chance, which is something many of us have been accused of, but rather because I don't want to see thousands of young people waste years of their lives and gather 6& figure debt for a job they'll never have. If you're a 2.0 student who scored a 30 on the PCAT, take a hard look at this stats and ask yourself if that newly opened and unaccredited school is really looking after your best interest.
     
  36. JackFruitLover

    JackFruitLover Member 10+ Year Member

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    Jun 27, 2005
    I agree! If the amount of applicants has decreased so far by 40% since 2011 and with the new changes in Naplex, I doubt these extra 20 schools will produce competent graduates that can pass the boards. There
    are numerous of schools currently that have a 50% Naplex pass rate! If they continue opening these 20 schools, it will just only open faculty jobs for us lol.
     
  37. diastereomerictruthRx

    diastereomerictruthRx

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    Jul 20, 2017
    I'd like to chime in. As a pharmacy student I feel like the current statistics do not tell the whole truth. In the near future, a lot of undergrad and applicants will choose primary health care professions, albeit nursing, PA, NP, Med, etc.. even DTP, more than expected. As a consequence the outlook of pharmacy will balance out. The differentiator between Rx and others is the curriculum in P2, where you have chemistry and math intensive courses. The funny fact of the matter is that in the long run a lot of potential hopefuls who barely got through/hated orgo, and barely got through or hated calculus, will hesitate to apply to Rx all things considered. In Rx, you definitely need the basics of chemistry, and once you start talking about drug structures and functional groups, (chirality, in vitro metabolism, and log P) one should have at least paid attention in orgo. (Current applicants don't worry, you will learn this later, and honestly you can memorize your way through lol). Why hasn't this decline in Rx applications happened yet? Because there is now all the crazy talk of primary care shortage. Evidence of what I'm saying is that online drug databases, perhaps martindales, are even excluding chemical structures from here on out because they feel it is unnecessary or what not, starting next year. The looming fear is that students will not want to apply to Rx because they're scared of the curriculum, and the demanding aspects of being a pharmacist. There will be enough of a decline in future applicants that future and current Rx students will simply find employment. I'm not saying that one needs to be an expert in chem to succeed in Rx school, as I said earlier, in the med chem and orgo content one could just memorize through, but even that required that you paid attention, and definitely had a decent grasp in Chem 1 and Chem 2 at least. I personally take pride in becoming a pharmacist and I guess what i'm saying is that there are always two sides of a story, and if this is what you would like to do, then I say don't listen to all the negativity. Just like enantiomers are not superimposable images, the reality of what the pharmacy outlook is, is not what is depicted here. If you have a gut feeling that pharmacy is for you, I would say ignore the negativity and study hard!
     
  38. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Ignoring something because it isn't what you want to hear is just bad science. You studied science, so be a good scientist. Make an informed decision based on all available data.

    All of the pharmacy passion talk is just more "follow your dream" nonsense designed to fleece emotional young college students out of their money. When reality sets in you won't give a damn what the younger, more optimistic and naive version of yourself had a gut feeling about. This is one of the largest and most important financial decisions of your life, so be smart about it.
     
    giga, y0ssarian87, TheBlaah and 4 others like this.
  39. diastereomerictruthRx

    diastereomerictruthRx

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    Jul 20, 2017
    ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  40. diastereomerictruthRx

    diastereomerictruthRx

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    Jul 20, 2017
    owlegrad, you seriously don't catch my point? seriously?
     
  41. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    Sorry, what are you referring to?
     
  42. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Oct 7, 2009
    I think he's upset that you liked my post.
     
    jeffk805dent likes this.
  43. angelsplight

    angelsplight 2+ Year Member

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    Oct 10, 2013
    Well I live in the NYS area and the job prospects don't look too well. As of now I still see positions open up, mainly in retail but in give or take 4 years I doubt there will be many positions. Binghamton starts their pharmacy program this year and Stony Brook next year so the already limited positions left in the NY area will fall even more. The opening of pharmacies opening in the area seems to have ceased as of last year so amount of positions will lower as more people graduate each year which is probably more than the amount of pharmacist retiring (Heck the pharmacist in my store is already a grandfather and still working and floating)
     
  44. baronzb

    baronzb 2+ Year Member

    164
    3
    Oct 10, 2014

    I've noticed large discrimination against out-of-state pharmacists, sometimes even out-of-the-area pharmacists. It's almost as if it is a waste of my time applying to those jobs. What has the experience of others been?
     
  45. TheBlaah

    TheBlaah 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 9, 2010
    I agree that there's generally discrimination against out-of-state pharmacists. However, I've found with shifts or locations (evening/night shifts or rural areas) that are harder to fill, that preference tends to go away as they need look through all the applicants they can get.
     
  46. quickpic007

    quickpic007

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    Sep 22, 2016
    My previous DM would throw away out-of-state apps regardless of experience and education. In-company transfers only from out of state. In state was absolutely fine.
     
  47. radio frequency

    radio frequency 2+ Year Member

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Even if people were already licensed in both states?
     
  48. gwarm01

    gwarm01 7+ Year Member

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    Oct 7, 2009
    That's too bad if so. Is this for a retail pharmacy? I've been flown in for interviews before with hospital work. The automatic shred bin reflex is probably just as dependent on how neurotic the hiring manager is as every other search criteria.
     
  49. quickpic007

    quickpic007

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    Sep 22, 2016
    Yep! Kind of harsh but the OT hogs in that district were quite reliable.

    Retail, flyover USA, I think he assumed out of state to be desperate so he just passed on all of them
     
  50. radio frequency

    radio frequency 2+ Year Member

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Actually, that makes sense, unless they're also from somewhere "less desirable." Wonder if it's different for more desirable locales.
     
  51. 8turkeys

    8turkeys 2+ Year Member

    79
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    Mar 31, 2015
    Miami
    Anyone have any experience on what the job market is like in rural areas?
     

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