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lmay0001

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I wonder is the life of a doctor that bad? as in my country doctor get a higher pay but work long hours however you always get 1 day off.

Please not Pharmacists in my country work nights too. my friend hospital pharmacist works 7am - 7pm 1hr break then 8pm - 3am break 3am -7am. (that is a pharmacist) and most of the time you are alone running from wards with pills.

plus pharmacists get a crap salary

Anyways do doctors get to enjoy social life?? my friend an architect works 80hrs a week so i dont believe he has a social life.
 

Mad Jack

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I wonder is the life of a doctor that bad? as in my country doctor get a higher pay but work long hours however you always get 1 day off.

Please not Pharmacists in my country work nights too. my friend hospital pharmacist works 7am - 7pm 1hr break then 8pm - 3am break 3am -7am. (that is a pharmacist) and most of the time you are alone running from wards with pills.

plus pharmacists get a crap salary

Anyways do doctors get to enjoy social life?? my friend an architect works 80hrs a week so i dont believe he has a social life.
Depends on the field. Some fields (derm, for instance) you can live an excellent life. Others (general surgery, OB) tend to be awful. Have to pick a field with a lifestyle that matches what you want in life.
 
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zeppelinpage4

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Also, within the same speciality, docs have told me that lifestyle and overall happiness with the job can vary a lot depending on the kind of practice you join, or where you decide to work.
Some hospital jobs can work you like a dog and you might be surrounded by really irritating people. Others might pay less, but can offer a much better working environment. So you can try to tailor your specialty of choice to suit your needs a bit more I imagine.​
 

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Depends on the field. Some fields (derm, for instance) you can live an excellent life *if you like outpatient/clinic work*. Others (general surgery, OB) tend to be awful *if you don't like surgery*. Have to pick a field with a lifestyle that matches what you want in life.

Added the red to point out its also highly dependent on interest and not just lifestyle goals. Outpatient/clinic work sucks my soul from my bored body but I can tolerate procedure better because I am more interested. If I had to work 50% more hours in GS than in FM I'd choose GS every day.
 
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NWwildcat2013

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I wonder is the life of a doctor that bad? as in my country doctor get a higher pay but work long hours however you always get 1 day off.

Please not Pharmacists in my country work nights too. my friend hospital pharmacist works 7am - 7pm 1hr break then 8pm - 3am break 3am -7am. (that is a pharmacist) and most of the time you are alone running from wards with pills.

plus pharmacists get a crap salary

Anyways do doctors get to enjoy social life?? my friend an architect works 80hrs a week so i dont believe he has a social life.
What is your definition of social life?
 

Mad Jack

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Added the red to point out its also highly dependent on interest and not just lifestyle goals. Outpatient/clinic work sucks my soul from my bored body but I can tolerate procedure better because I am more interested. If I had to work 50% more hours in GS than in FM I'd choose GS every day.
He was referring to life outside of work. That's completely different than lifestyle at work.
 
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PlutoBoy

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It sucks
Do something else
 
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NWwildcat2013

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He was referring to life outside of work. That's completely different than lifestyle at work.
Hmm... for me its all connected. Personally, I found that I was not motivated to do anything and probably had some diagnosable depression on my outpatient rotations. I didn't do anything after work (was exhausted and napped/slept early) and was bitter and not up for socializing unless it was complaining. When Im busier doing something I like I find its easier for me to live the "work hard, play hard" lifestyle.

Some people are probably better at compartmentalizing than me, so I see your point. I just can't imagine hating what I do from 9-5 and then having a healthy social life. I can't throw that mental switch.
 
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Mad Jack

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Hmm... for me its all connected. Personally, I found that I was not motivated to do anything and probably had some diagnosable depression on my outpatient rotations. I didn't do anything after work (was exhausted and napped/slept early) and was bitter and not up for socializing unless it was complaining. When Im busier doing something I like I find its easier for me to live the "work hard, play hard" lifestyle.

Some people are probably better at compartmentalizing than me, so I see your point. I just can't imagine hating what I do from 9-5 and then having a healthy social life. I can't throw that mental switch.
Eh, work has never affected my life. But then again, I've had the displeasure of suffering through some truly detestable jobs, so I guess anything in medicine is paradise on earth in comparison.
 
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Perrotfish

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I wonder is the life of a doctor that bad? as in my country doctor get a higher pay but work long hours however you always get 1 day off.

Please not Pharmacists in my country work nights too. my friend hospital pharmacist works 7am - 7pm 1hr break then 8pm - 3am break 3am -7am. (that is a pharmacist) and most of the time you are alone running from wards with pills.

plus pharmacists get a crap salary

Anyways do doctors get to enjoy social life?? my friend an architect works 80hrs a week so i dont believe he has a social life.

During training (medical school and residency) it sucks. Not universally, but for at least 80% of us. The weeks are technically 80 hours and actually more not counting admin, and the work environment is terrible.

After training you negotiate with your employer for the job you want to have. You decide how you want to split your value as a physician between money, time, and quality of your work enviornment. I know physicians that work every other week, or every other month, or on part time 3 day a week schedules. Some of them are fresh out of residency. I also know docs that work 10 hours a day and every other weekend on call. Its all about what you want your career to be.
 
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Law2Doc

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If you like your job long hours are less of a big deal - time flies by remarkably fast when you are engaged and interested. If you don't like your job, even working 40 hours/wk a week can be oppressive. So a focus on free time rather than doing something you enjoy is misplaced.

The average physician works in the 60+ hour a week range, with periodic weekend work, so going in, that's kind of what you should expect. It's a hard long houred job but there are many professionals out there in other professions who work similarly. While it's comforting to tell yourself that after training you can tailor your schedule to meet your needs and to some extent that's true, I wouldn't buy into that hook line and sinker --it's only half the story. We all "know a guy" who earns a nice income while hardly working, but the truth is a bit more nebulous. There are always trade offs and to get that kind of schedule that guy likely gave up a lot in terms of upward progression and job security.

Early on in your career you may be expected to pay your dues, take the lions share of call, work all the major holidays etc for your group. Many new attendings and private practitioners actually see hours go up, not down, immediately after residency.

And you'll find that a desired career trajectory may dictate working longer hours and/or serving on various committees, going to meetings or other administrative functions to help you move up the ranks. The guy who works every other week may seem like he has a good gig until you realize that he's expendable -- the first guy out the door when budgets tighten, and the last guy to get a raise or a promotion, if ever. Face time and the quasi work related things you do on top of your job can make the difference on certain career paths. If you work for an employer they can always replace you with someone who will go that extra mile if you won't. So I caution you that whenever you see someone working a schedule that seems too good to be true, it might be a bit of an illusion -- often they've traded away too much upside. A lot of those dream schedules are better left on the table.
 
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ProfMD

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Lifestyle as a resident, in most specialties, is not that good. But, this is time-limited.

Lifestyle as an attending is what you make of it. Part of it depends on speciality, but the type of practice you have makes a bigger impact - group vs solo, employed vs private practice, trauma vs not, call coverage vs not, area of the country, etc. There are family practitioners in solo practice in small communities who are basically on-call 24-7 and there are surgeons who work in large groups who take call once every few weeks.

Three examples from my own family - I am a surgeon, my dad is a retired corporate lawyer, my brother is in finance. My dad worked long hours as a junior attorney - 12-14 hour days, often went in on Saturdays. My brother works long hours too - 12-14 hour days, rarely works weekends. I work 10-12 hour days but take call. Whose lifestyle is worse? Hard to say. Sure, I have to take call, so my time at home is not always my own, but I also love what I do and would be miserable as either an attorney or finance person. I actually like my career more than either my brother or dad like(d) their career. I derive more satisfaction from work than either of them ever did or do.

Point is, a lot of professionals work long hours. Some for not very much money. Being a doctor is not necessarily better or worse than being a lawyer, business-person, etc.
 
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ACSurgeon

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I love how it's always the non-surgeons on SDN giving the advice of "don't do surgery unless you can't see yourself doing anything else" and commenting about how miserable becoming/being a surgeon must be. On the other hand, the SDN surgical residents/faculty usually present a much more positive outlook while remaining realistic.

Maybe it's because some current SDNers have talked to older surgeons who trained in the miserable era and things have gotten better now? Maybe it's because the non-surgeons want to validate their own reasons of not choosing surgery (i.e. missing out on being awesome).

I can give example after example of how attending surgeons can have really nice lifestyles. Call days can suck, but you can be a surgeon and not take more than 4-5 calls per month.
 

Mad Jack

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I love how it's always the non-surgeons on SDN giving the advice of "don't do surgery unless you can't see yourself doing anything else" and commenting about how miserable becoming/being a surgeon must be. On the other hand, the SDN surgical residents/faculty usually present a much more positive outlook while remaining realistic.

Maybe it's because some current SDNers have talked to older surgeons who trained in the miserable era and things have gotten better now? Maybe it's because the non-surgeons want to validate their own reasons of not choosing surgery (i.e. missing out on being awesome).

I can give example after example of how attending surgeons can have really nice lifestyles. Call days can suck, but you can be a surgeon and not take more than 4-5 calls per month.
Some people really just hate surgery. I think surgery is hell, and loathe everything about the OR. It holds no glamour or interest for me. And I had some surgeon friends back in the day that would lament how much they either hated or lamented their choice. One left medicine entirely post-fellowship to teach because she hated it so much, after doing a fellowship no less. Seeing our attendings put in 60+ hour weeks didn't help much, but in at least a couple of cases they put in such long hours because their family lives had become so strained because of their careers as to be unbearable, and work was now their escape.

So if you like surgery, good for you I guess. But it isn't for everyone- some of us don't like working with our hands, long hours, or excessive call. To us the field is misery on top of more misery with a side of suffering that is boring as all hell.
 
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TheFutureFatMan

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Really depends on the field. My aunt/uncle both OB's one hates their job, the other loves it. Their lifestyle is based on a lot of different factors - number of providers in their practice, insurance status of patients, how easy the staff is to work with. There are a lot of factors that affect managing life -- for instance nurses that can labor patients down effectively are able to get your inductions done before/after clinic or over lunch. YOUR ability to manage the work flow of your office will be a factor. A doctor that doesn't do a good job of this could have few patients, but still take longer than a physician with more patients, but a better understanding of how to handle work flow.

My god-mother is IM, she gets murdered. She's also not very fast. My brother is OB, he sees HUGE volumes, but has good call support so rarely misses important events, and is very efficient. There are a LOT of factors at play regarding the lifestyle.

As the child of two physicians (OB and IM, as well) my parents were busy, but were available for damn near every event, soccer game, graduation, birthday party, you name it. We had plenty of times where we had to drop what we were doing to run to the hospital, but all in all we had a good life growing up and I saw plenty of my parents.

My mom -- she is very up front about the fact that she would not have chosen this career if she could go back. I think a lot of that is just burn-out related. She got into IM because she was interested in really complex cases, now she's seeing a lot of type II diabetes and COPD. She's bored. My dad, loves his career, loves his practice, and loves his lifestyle.

There just isn't a good answer to this. I think the best rule of thumb is make sure you find something you truly find joy in, then do your best to make your lifestyle work with it.
 
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ProfMD

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Some people really just hate surgery. I think surgery is hell, and loathe everything about the OR. It holds no glamour or interest for me. And I had some surgeon friends back in the day that would lament how much they either hated or lamented their choice. One left medicine entirely post-fellowship to teach because she hated it so much, after doing a fellowship no less. Seeing our attendings put in 60+ hour weeks didn't help much, but in at least a couple of cases they put in such long hours because their family lives had become so strained because of their careers as to be unbearable, and work was now their escape.

So if you like surgery, good for you I guess. But it isn't for everyone- some of us don't like working with our hands, long hours, or excessive call. To us the field is misery on top of more misery with a side of suffering that is boring as all hell.

The point is not that people can't despise surgery. The point is that you can't make blanket statements like "surgeons have no life" or surgeons take "excessive call" or surgeons work long hours. None of these statements a defining features if surgery nor unique to surgery. Presenting them as fact is simply not accurate.

If you don't want to be a surgeon, don't be a surgeon. But don't pretend that your impression of surgery is undeniable truth.
 
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themockjock

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To us the field is misery on top of more misery with a side of suffering that is boring as all hell.

Wait, you're talking about psychiatry right? Because if so, I agree 100%
 
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ACSurgeon

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Some people really just hate surgery. I think surgery is hell, and loathe everything about the OR. It holds no glamour or interest for me. And I had some surgeon friends back in the day that would lament how much they either hated or lamented their choice. One left medicine entirely post-fellowship to teach because she hated it so much, after doing a fellowship no less. Seeing our attendings put in 60+ hour weeks didn't help much, but in at least a couple of cases they put in such long hours because their family lives had become so strained because of their careers as to be unbearable, and work was now their escape.

So if you like surgery, good for you I guess. But it isn't for everyone- some of us don't like working with our hands, long hours, or excessive call. To us the field is misery on top of more misery with a side of suffering that is boring as all hell.

And I hate the idea of living in New York/Chicago/LA. You won't find me strongly advising people to stay clear of these cities if that's their idea of a good life. Me hating a busy city is my preference, not a universally hated thing.
 
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oshanimalia

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If you like your job long hours are less of a big deal - time flies by remarkably fast when you are engaged and interested. If you don't like your job, even working 40 hours/wk a week can be oppressive. So a focus on free time rather than doing something you enjoy is misplaced.

The average physician works in the 60+ hour a week range, with periodic weekend work, so going in, that's kind of what you should expect. It's a hard long houred job but there are many professionals out there in other professions who work similarly. While it's comforting to tell yourself that after training you can tailor your schedule to meet your needs and to some extent that's true, I wouldn't buy into that hook line and sinker --it's only half the story. We all "know a guy" who earns a nice income while hardly working, but the truth is a bit more nebulous. There are always trade offs and to get that kind of schedule that guy likely gave up a lot in terms of upward progression and job security.

Early on in your career you may be expected to pay your dues, take the lions share of call, work all the major holidays etc for your group. Many new attendings and private practitioners actually see hours go up, not down, immediately after residency.

And you'll find that a desired career trajectory may dictate working longer hours and/or serving on various committees, going to meetings or other administrative functions to help you move up the ranks. The guy who works every other week may seem like he has a good gig until you realize that he's expendable -- the first guy out the door when budgets tighten, and the last guy to get a raise or a promotion, if ever. Face time and the quasi work related things you do on top of your job can make the difference on certain career paths. If you work for an employer they can always replace you with someone who will go that extra mile if you won't. So I caution you that whenever you see someone working a schedule that seems too good to be true, it might be a bit of an illusion -- often they've traded away too much upside. A lot of those dream schedules are better left on the table.
I actually heard of a business trend where they keep the people working the hardest where they see because to promote then would be to remove them from what they are doing best...

Sent from my SM-G920V using SDN mobile
 

Law2Doc

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I actually heard of a business trend where they keep the people working the hardest where they see because to promote then would be to remove them from what they are doing best...
That's been tried in other industries with horrible results in terms of employee retention. Without the carrot of promotion or at least upside participation to dangle in front of someone they'll naturally just work hard enough not to lose their job (Or worse go work for a competitor who offers more). This truism was echoed by the main character, Peter, in the movie Office Space decades ago. Any place trying to do this will fail -- those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it -- Business 101 rookie mistake. Don't ever work at a place where the management is this dumb.
 
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Mad Jack

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And I hate the idea of living in New York/Chicago/LA. You won't find me strongly advising people to stay clear of these cities if that's their idea of a good life. Me hating a busy city is my preference, not a universally hated thing.
Oh I agree, I'm just saying he was in a great position to swap, given the desirability of his city.
 

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Well think about it, you and your spouse combined will be in the 1% of income earners in the U.S. It was definitely a cool thing to be a 1%er before it became cool to spite them and want to tax that bracket up their ***. So everyone assumes you will be living the life of a king. In reality, we will find out what it's like when we get there. As long as you love medicine, you should be ok in the end working long hours and sending 50%+ of that income to taxes.

TLDR: there cannot be a worse time to go into medicine for the money. Love what you do.
 

Law2Doc

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Well think about it, you and your spouse combined will be in the 1% of income earners in the U.S. It was definitely a cool thing to be a 1%er before it became cool to spite them and want to tax that bracket up their ***. So everyone assumes you will be living the life of a king. In reality, we will find out what it's like when we get there. As long as you love medicine, you should be ok in the end working long hours and sending 50%+ of that income to taxes.

TLDR: there cannot be a worse time to go into medicine for the money. Love what you do.
Well, the highest graduated federal tax rate is still under 40% but you might have state and local taxes on top of that. And then there's social security. And if you put another 5% into a 401k and use a big chunk of the remainder to service your hefty student loan obligation, suddenly your monthly paycheck seems quite light compared to what you've imagined as a premed. You can spend it all on very basic things even without living it up if you aren't frugal. About 10% of us will live below our means and actually start saving at this point. The next 75% will be more or less living paycheck to paycheck and barely saving squat. And the last 15% will kid themselves that they are now "rich", run up credit card debt and be hosed. So yeah, love what you do because a lot of the wealth premeds fantasize about is pretty overstated and illusory. You'll likely live up to your means and wonder why it's not more, whether you work as a doctor or manage a Walmart.
 
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lmay0001

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Hi

I am a Pharmacist, and currently studying medicine.

Why did i enter medicine? reasons are:

worked as managing Pharmacist, the main aim of which was to make sales, Repetitive tasks and not much patient counselling.

in my country there are not alot of jobs related to Clinical Pharmacy

I was always interested in working and teaching patients about health

Industrial jobs are sit down in front of a computer job and send e-mails. It gets boring and in the long run its unhealthhy.

Bdw Pharmacists work long hours too i used to work 60-70hrs a week.

Salary is fixed starting 17,000 euros or approx 21 000 dollars Vs a Doctor who makes 30 000 dollars starting.

I dont look at salary however everyone needs to eat and pay the bills you can work for free. With Pharmacy i couldn't live well. monthly salary take home after tax was 1300euros/month (plus had to pay rent 650euro, - food approx 250/month)

What you guys think, is my switch to medicine a good choice. (im not doing it for the money i like working in clinics) only problem 1% of the times i get squeamish and feel sick when i see severe injuries.
 

QualityProcess

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shadow someone in the job you want, and see if you like it. then decide if you like it enough to overcome the drawbacks.
 
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I live well below my means and still live a pretty good lifestyle. It can be done. Whatever field you go into, get a great job, whatever that means to you, live below your means, retire early, and laugh all the way to the country club.


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dadaddadaBATMAN

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Well, the highest graduated federal tax rate is still under 40% but you might have state and local taxes on top of that. And then there's social security. And if you put another 5% into a 401k and use a big chunk of the remainder to service your hefty student loan obligation, suddenly your monthly paycheck seems quite light compared to what you've imagined as a premed. You can spend it all on very basic things even without living it up if you aren't frugal. About 10% of us will live below our means and actually start saving at this point. The next 75% will be more or less living paycheck to paycheck and barely saving squat. And the last 15% will kid themselves that they are now "rich", run up credit card debt and be hosed. So yeah, love what you do because a lot of the wealth premeds fantasize about is pretty overstated and illusory. You'll likely live up to your means and wonder why it's not more, whether you work as a doctor or manage a Walmart.

This seems a little melodramatic.

My spouse makes about 25% of what I'll be making assuming I'm around the 25th percentile of my specialty (and assuming I match, which seems likely based on my numbers).

We've paid off a little over half of tuition, maintained an emergency fund, she has fully matched her 401k, and we are living extremely well by our standards. We go out to movies, occasionally eat out, go on small vacations, etc. Even with all that it's likely we'll be out of debt by the time residency concludes. This also includes expensive little bundles of joy.

I'm having trouble envisioning an environment where someone makes four times as much as we're living on and they're suffering, unless they make some truly stupid financial mistakes (becoming house poor, racking up the credit cards, not investing fully into retirement, using a broker, etc)
 
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deleted763299

Why did i enter medicine? reasons are:

worked as managing Pharmacist, the main aim of which was to make sales, Repetitive tasks and not much patient counselling.

The bolded is frequently the case in many specialties of medicine

I was always interested in working and teaching patients about health

This ideally would happen a lot in medicine, but in reality we do relatively little patient education. Most education is done by ancillary staff.

Industrial jobs are sit down in front of a computer job and send e-mails. It gets boring and in the long run its unhealthhy.

Lots of sitting at computers in medicine, this is a reality of healthcare in the 21st century. Sorry.

Bdw Pharmacists work long hours too i used to work 60-70hrs a week.

Hours will vary a lot based on the medical specialty in question.

1% of the times i get squeamish and feel sick when i see severe injuries.

Lots of people get squeamish about different things. I hate diabetic foot wounds, I literally have to choke back the vomit when I encounter one. I just deal with it as quickly as possible and move on with my day, nothing else really to do in this case.

is my switch to medicine a good choice

You are the only one that can answer this question. Hope my input has given you something to think about.
 

lmay0001

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Ps depends on workload i have pharmacist friends who work 80hrs or more per week with over time to increase their salary. Although we might not work in the hospital most of the work occurs at home on a laptop doing paperwork. Most is unpaid!! so yeah if MDs think they have it bad they have no idea what working is. Plus my friends are prinicple Pharmacists running over 25 pharmacies with (3000 patients each) and get a Maximum salary of 18 000/year.
 

ml200201

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I don't know in what country you're working as a pharmacist, but in America, pharmacists make bank. Starting salary is 6 figures for hospital, even more for retail, and possibly industry as well.
 

lmay0001

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I don't know in what country you're working as a pharmacist, but in America, pharmacists make bank. Starting salary is 6 figures for hospital, even more for retail, and possibly industry as well.

Work in Malta (europe) here Pharmacists make approx 1300 Euros after tax or 18,000/per year
 

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I am an Indian Pharmacy graduate. I have completed 2 Years of Diploma and than 3 years bachelors in India. Plus i was working in India as Pharmacist for long time.
What are my chances of registration in USA ?
How can I become registered pharmacist over here ?
 

lmay0001

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Wow. Who would study that hard for so little income. I take home more than that a month. Come over to the dark side. And the US, apparently.


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Il Destriero
We have a huge discrepency in my country. Pharmacists (senior/Principle Pharmacist makes max 23 000 euros after 10 years working at hospital) MD junior doctor get initially 19,880 + Overtime, Basic Specialists BST 1-5 get 28,000 euros + overtime to Maximum of 46000 euros.

Consultants get 65 000euros.

Industry in my country is mostly Generic companies that pay crap (approx 1400/month for Regulatory Affairs, Quality Assurance)
 
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