she woolf

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I don't know if I should ask this here but, alot of people say to major in something non science coz it makes you well rounded. I however was thinking maybe do a physician assistant major? I know Hofstra and a few others have a 4 yr P.A degree with options for a masters. My question is: would it be redundant and pointless? I hear a lot of P.As talking about doing rotations with Med students and the classes are kinda the same...I'll make sure to do the pre reqs. Then go to med school. Is that way too much?? I really need answers since no one has mentioned P.A bach then med school.
 

Bernoull

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Keep in mind that you can major in astrology, if it exists, and get into med school. Any and all majors are welcome so major in something you like and could potentially see yourself doing.

If you major in another professional field as a premed, you have have to explain your "perceived change of heart".

Honestly, just major in something you like..
 

musafirah

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why on earth would you want to study something for 4 years... and then study the same stuff but more material for ANOTHER 4 years?? why not just become a PA when you're done? i'd pick a different major that you're interested in. doesn't have to be biology. if you really want to go to med school, just study something you like, while doing your pre-reqs, and then go to med school. and in the process, you get to be more well-rounded.
 

seelee

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Is this a pre-PA major? Unless things have drastically changed I was under the impression that PA was a graduate degree. If it is a preprofessional degree, then I would advise against it mainly on the grounds that if for some reason you do not get into that professional program, you are left w/ a pretty useless degree.
 

traitorman

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There are some colleges that have 4 year PA programs. Most are 6 years. But from what I understand, a lot of the PA programs are being shifted to 6 years now.
 
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she woolf

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why on earth would you want to study something for 4 years... and then study the same stuff but more material for ANOTHER 4 years?? why not just become a PA when you're done? i'd pick a different major that you're interested in. doesn't have to be biology. if you really want to go to med school, just study something you like, while doing your pre-reqs, and then go to med school. and in the process, you get to be more well-rounded.
Being a P.A would kinda sorta be a back up plan...And If I did do P.A I would be more comfortable with sci and med before Med school. It made perfect sense to me!! But now not so much :scared:
 

Marcus Brody

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I don't know if I should ask this here but, alot of people say to major in something non science coz it makes you well rounded. I however was thinking maybe do a physician assistant major? I know Hofstra and a few others have a 4 yr P.A degree with options for a masters. My question is: would it be redundant and pointless? I hear a lot of P.As talking about doing rotations with Med students and the classes are kinda the same...I'll make sure to do the pre reqs. Then go to med school. Is that way too much?? I really need answers since no one has mentioned P.A bach then med school.
I like a phys ass nice and well rounded too :thumbup:
 
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she woolf

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Is this a pre-PA major? Unless things have drastically changed I was under the impression that PA was a graduate degree. If it is a preprofessional degree, then I would advise against it mainly on the grounds that if for some reason you do not get into that professional program, you are left w/ a pretty useless degree.
2 yrs are pre P.A and then they let you know if you got into the 3+4 yr of the program. Besides most people choose what they want to do after 2 yrs in college anyways?
 
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she woolf

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musafirah

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Being a P.A would kinda sorta be a back up plan...And If I did do P.A I would be more comfortable with sci and med before Med school. It made perfect sense to me!! But now not so much :scared:
okay.. i don't know what kinda program you will go into exactly, but i suggest looking at the curriculum for this program, compare it to an MD curriculum, and see how much it overlaps and then decide if you would enjoy all the overlap or not. i'm also ignoring the fact that (as someone else pointed out) that you will have to be ready to explain why you decided to switch from PA to med school. i am not sure if "it was a backup plan" would be good, so you'll have to make up a story i guess.
 
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she woolf

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why on earth would you want to study something for 4 years... and then study the same stuff but more material for ANOTHER 4 years?? why not just become a PA when you're done? i'd pick a different major that you're interested in. doesn't have to be biology. if you really want to go to med school, just study something you like, while doing your pre-reqs, and then go to med school. and in the process, you get to be more well-rounded.
This is not what I wanted to hear :( I don't know what else I'd want to do...LIBERAL ARTS HERE I COME:mad:
 
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she woolf

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she woolf

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okay.. i don't know what kinda program you will go into exactly, but i suggest looking at the curriculum for this program, compare it to an MD curriculum, and see how much it overlaps and then decide if you would enjoy all the overlap or not. i'm also ignoring the fact that (as someone else pointed out) that you will have to be ready to explain why you decided to switch from PA to med school. i am not sure if "it was a backup plan" would be good, so you'll have to make up a story i guess.
:laugh: most def. not. I'll have to come up with a good lie >.>
This is starting to become a worse and worst idea as the comments start coming in...
 

musafirah

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don't do a major that you don't want to do (you dont HAVE to go to liberal arts). pre-PA is a lot like pre-med, so if you have two years to figure it out, then go for it. i'm sure when you're farther along in college you'll figure out what you want to study. it might just help you figure out what TYPE of science you like, or if you like something else entirely. so i support the idea of 2 years of pre-reqs, and along the way you'll figure it out with more exposure to different coursework :). good luck.
 

mmmcdowe

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Those in high school should post in the high school SDN forum.
 

Marcus Brody

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Is this a pre-PA major? Unless things have drastically changed I was under the impression that PA was a graduate degree. If it is a preprofessional degree, then I would advise against it mainly on the grounds that if for some reason you do not get into that professional program, you are left w/ a pretty useless degree.
sadly, there are 4 year PA programs accepting kids out of HS. it's becoming less and less of a graduate degree, and more of a joke.

http://www.dyc.edu/academics/physician_assistant/curriculum.asp
 
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she woolf

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Those in high school should post in the high school SDN forum.
Victoria isn't in H.S...she just couldn't figure out what to do with her life. and still can't. :D

^^^is this better Big Yellow Smiley Man..
 

thamsenman

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Victoria isn't in H.S...she just couldn't figure out what to do with her life. and still can't. :D

^^^is this better Big Yellow Smiley Man..
I don't think he meant you. But I dunno, could be wrong though.
 

mmmcdowe

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Victoria isn't in H.S...she just couldn't figure out what to do with her life. and still can't. :D

^^^is this better Big Yellow Smiley Man..
Are you in college?
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I don't think it's logical to do it. Why do you want to take up a spot in a PA program when you have no intention of actually practicing? That spot could go to someone who will be working in an ER in 4 years, or delivering babies or whatever. Instead, you're thinking about taking up a spot someone might actually use?

I don't get some people.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I don't think it's logical to do it. Why do you want to take up a spot in a PA program when you have no intention of actually practicing? That spot could go to someone who will be working in an ER in 4 years, or delivering babies or whatever. Instead, you're thinking about taking up a spot someone might actually use?

I don't get some people.
Realistically if it were me i'd get the PA degree and call it a day, I mean getting 80k a year at age 22. Medical school is another 4 years + 3 year residency min + 200k+ debt and then what? You'll be making double but have given up nearly 10 years and taken a hell of a lot of debt.
 

Squeal

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Realistically if it were me i'd get the PA degree and call it a day, I mean getting 80k a year at age 22. Medical school is another 4 years + 3 year residency min + 200k+ debt and then what? You'll be making double but have given up nearly 10 years and taken a hell of a lot of debt.
Not to mention the fact that the PA curriculum isn't a cake walk. If she decides she really wants to be a doctor while in the PA program, and then has ANY problems in the classes, it could be very detrimental to her med school chances.

Sure, she'd still be a PA, but what if she wants to do a lot of research later, or wants a bit more autonomy? Then you'll be a bitter medical provider and that does no one any good.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Not to mention the fact that the PA curriculum isn't a cake walk. If she decides she really wants to be a doctor while in the PA program, and then has ANY problems in the classes, it could be very detrimental to her med school chances.

Sure, she'd still be a PA, but what if she wants to do a lot of research later, or wants a bit more autonomy? Then you'll be a bitter medical provider and that does no one any good.
That the thing, a PA program in itself is supposed to be 3 years long. Having it shrunk to 2 years its going to make it a lot harder. Not to mention the maturity problem, a person who has got a bachelors is going to be much more capable in study and time management.
I'll also agree that after a PA program this girl will more then likely be tired and unwilling to do another 7+ years of study. Autonomy blah, you can always find a good pa position in many clinic's( that is if the PA field isn't over saturated). But yah no research or academic capacities, but a lot of doctors have no interest in that.
It's a hard call but, there's a reason PA is the number one most desired job now adays. Its got a good mix of demand, pay, autonomy and life style quality. Because really if your a good specialized PA you'll be working 45 hours or so and make 110k and have relatively minor debt.
 

Squeal

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That the thing, a PA program in itself is supposed to be 3 years long. Having it shrunk to 2 years its going to make it a lot harder. Not to mention the maturity problem, a person who has got a bachelors is going to be much more capable in study and time management.
I'll also agree that after a PA program this girl will more then likely be tired and unwilling to do another 7+ years of study. Autonomy blah, you can always find a good pa position in many clinic's( that is if the PA field isn't over saturated). But yah no research or academic capacities, but a lot of doctors have no interest in that.
It's a hard call but, there's a reason PA is the number one most desired job now adays. Its got a good mix of demand, pay, autonomy and life style quality. Because really if your a good specialized PA you'll be working 45 hours or so and make 110k and have relatively minor debt.


I agree and wouldn't have problems being a PA for those reasons. You say "autonomy blah," and yes it is true that you can have a lot of autonomy in Emergency departments and whatnot, but what if she wanted to do surgery? That is one area where PA's have very little leeway. Yes they get to round on patients and assist in surgery, but they aren't usually solo on those surgeries, are they?
 
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Morsetlis

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I don't think it's logical to do it. Why do you want to take up a spot in a PA program when you have no intention of actually practicing? That spot could go to someone who will be working in an ER in 4 years, or delivering babies or whatever. Instead, you're thinking about taking up a spot someone might actually use?

I don't get some people.
a.) It's more useful than a bio/chem degree in terms of making money. Med schools don't have a 100% acceptance rate.
b.) It gives you more access to clinical experience than an average bio/chem grad. It'd give you more background for medicine when you start it.
c.) Who the hell cares. If you're qualified enough for it, go for it.

My only cautions would be: Allied Health profession grading is often difficult. If you have maturity/studying issues you will have a lower GPA than if you went for a normal Bio degree.
 

jwl7b

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I don't know if I should ask this here but, alot of people say to major in something non science coz it makes you well rounded. I however was thinking maybe do a physician assistant major? I know Hofstra and a few others have a 4 yr P.A degree with options for a masters. My question is: would it be redundant and pointless? I hear a lot of P.As talking about doing rotations with Med students and the classes are kinda the same...I'll make sure to do the pre reqs. Then go to med school. Is that way too much?? I really need answers since no one has mentioned P.A bach then med school.
I think one thing to think about is that having a PA major will likely NOT give you an advantage for getting INTO med school. That's largely dependent on your MCAT, GPA, extracurriculars, etc. You may also have trouble getting the necessary letters of recommendation if you're in a program designed solely to graduate PAs. Also, having the time to do volunteering, physician shadowing, and all those types of things is important, and being in a PA program might not be conducive to that.

Your PA coursework probably won't help you on the MCAT, since it pretty much has no clinical focus. (It's really about how well you learn the stuff in your pre-req sciences)

Whether or not having a PA degree will help you IN med school is debatable, I think. If you'd like to read about what the differences might be, look at corpsmanUP's 2nd post on this page: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202203&page=2

Good luck
 

morning

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I agree and wouldn't have problems being a PA for those reasons. You say "autonomy blah," and yes it is true that you can have a lot of autonomy in Emergency departments and whatnot, but what if she wanted to do surgery? That is one area where PA's have very little leeway. Yes they get to round on patients and assist in surgery, but they aren't usually solo on those surgeries, are they?
From what I understand EM PAs with autonomy are working shifts docs don't want to work, and the PAs working with physicians get to do a lot of the scutwork in a field that is already like 60% scutwork even if you're a physician.
 

Morsetlis

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PA = being a resident for the rest of your life (but with better hours.)
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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PA = being a resident for the rest of your life (but with better hours.)
And 2x-3x the pay. A lot of people say call it the intelligent persons alternative to medical school.
 

Morsetlis

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Or the underachiever's.

Seriously, I want to practice medicine, not physician assisting. I'd do it even it meant I'd make $50k/year the rest of my life (after taxes and loans).

Of course, if I made only that much, then I'd probably marry into a richer profession to get access to some $$$ ;p
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Or the underachiever's.

Seriously, I want to practice medicine, not physician assisting. I'd do it even it meant I'd make $50k/year the rest of my life (after taxes and loans).

Of course, if I made only that much, then I'd probably marry into a richer profession to get access to some $$$ ;p
Some people are willing to spend 11 years in post-secondary educational limbo. Some are more interested in getting on with their life and carving out there lives. It's a difficult choice, but now aday's I think PA schools are actually on par with some low tier MD schools in competitiveness level.
 

morning

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And 2x-3x the pay. A lot of people say call it the intelligent persons alternative to medical school.

Unless you're planning on being dead 10 years after you become a physician, the pay of a resident is finite, whereas a physician assistant will eventually make less than a doctor even after loans and lost income are factored in.

Say you wanted to go into EM, which is one of the more higher-paying physician assistant specialties. You would have been making 90k, but you're going to make 220k as an EM physician. You accumulated 220k more in loans as a physician, plus the 180k you would have made in income if you had done 2 years of PA school instead of 4 years in medical school. You make 40% what the PA makes as an EM resident over 3 years, so you add another 162k, making it a grand total of $562,000 in income lost. That is a buttload of money, but you're now making over 100k a year than the PA, so in 6 years, you surpass them in money.

It sucks that you spent all that time in school, but believe it or not, life does not end at 35 or 40, and in fact, I'm pretty sure that by the time we're 80, it will be the new (old?) 60.

You will be alive and practicing medicine long enough to make more than the PA. In the words of Princess Leia, if money is all you love, than money is what you'll receive.
 

Morsetlis

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Life: Get educated, get a job, get married, have kids, raise kids, retire.

I don't really care about anything past "get married". Even that is a bit iffy since I'm gay. I only have a career to think about.

However, I do see your point. Everybody is different :)
 
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Some people are willing to spend 11 years in post-secondary educational limbo. Some are more interested in getting on with their life and carving out there lives. It's a difficult choice, but now aday's I think PA schools are actually on par with some low tier MD schools in competitiveness level.

there's the stupid comment of the day.
 
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I don't know if I should ask this here but, alot of people say to major in something non science coz it makes you well rounded. I however was thinking maybe do a physician assistant major? I know Hofstra and a few others have a 4 yr P.A degree with options for a masters. My question is: would it be redundant and pointless? I hear a lot of P.As talking about doing rotations with Med students and the classes are kinda the same...I'll make sure to do the pre reqs. Then go to med school. Is that way too much?? I really need answers since no one has mentioned P.A bach then med school.

IMO

Redundancy is not looked at favorably at all by adcoms. Major in what you want during college and you'll be a well-rounded applicant. If you're going to do a PA program then that's what you should do. If I were on adcom I would definitely recycle your app.
 

Morsetlis

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I completely disagree with the above post.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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IMO

Redundancy is not looked at favorably at all by adcoms. Major in what you want during college and you'll be a well-rounded applicant. If you're going to do a PA program then that's what you should do. If I were on adcom I would definitely recycle your app.
And that's why your not a Adcom. Tons of allied healthcare fields eventually try to get into medical school. And some do manage to get in.
 

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Why would you want to punish yourself? First off, you would have to explain why you picked a different professional school, then you would have to suffer through a similar curriculum for the first year or two. Enjoy undergrad and make good grades. Then, buckle down and do medical school :)

I would do molecular biology and spanish.
 

fahimaz7

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And that's why your not a Adcom. Tons of allied healthcare fields eventually try to get into medical school. And some do manage to get in.
That's a general consensus amongst adcom members. It is very difficult to get into medical school as a nurse, PA, PharmD, etc.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Life: Get educated, get a job, get married, have kids, raise kids, retire.

I don't really care about anything past "get married". Even that is a bit iffy since I'm gay. I only have a career to think about.

However, I do see your point. Everybody is different :)
Neh I just don't want to be part of the Dr.Wilson/Watson club and have to be remarried 3 times. High profile careers = less time for your family = them being unhappy = them being more likely to leave you.
 

fahimaz7

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there's the stupid comment of the day.
Here's from Duke's PA school...

"Admission to the Duke PA Program is very competitive. The following information describing recent candidates will allow prospective applicants to realistically assess their chances of admission, and to plan accordingly. For the PA class entering in 2009, 684 CASPA applications were received. One hundred and ninety applicants were interviewed. Seventy applicants accepted the offer of admission for the Fall 2009 entering class.

The ranges of academic and experiential qualifications for the middle 50 percent of accepted applicants for Fall 2009 were as follows:

Overall GPA: 3.3 – 3.7
Natural science GPA: 2.9 – 3.5
Total natural science credits: 47 –73
GRE General Test scores:
Verbal: 463 – 588
Quantitative: 613 – 710
Analytical Writing: 4.0 – 4.9
Months of full-time patient care experience: 11 –31"

I bet it's not that far off from several MD and DO programs. Either or, I don't have 11-31 months of full-time patient care.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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That's a general consensus amongst adcom members. It is very difficult to get into medical school as a nurse, PA, PharmD, etc.
Difficult, but not impossible. This more or less applies to people like the OP who do not work a day as a PA and go for medical school. However if you've worked 10 years as a nurse there's probably no issue going into med school.
 

fahimaz7

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Difficult, but not impossible. This more or less applies to people like the OP who do not work a day as a PA and go for medical school. However if you've worked 10 years as a nurse there's probably no issue going into med school.
While nothing is impossible, it's not likely to happen. Ask around and see if there are any nurses in medical school. I don't know of any in our classes. We have 1 PA and 2 PharmD's (neither of the PharmD's worked. They graduated in May of last year).

While you many not realize it.. The mindset between a RN and a MD is quite different. The curriculum is completely different. The roles are completely different. It would take 2 years of full-time class for an RN to go back and take her pre-reqs, then she would have to do well on the MCAT.

He/She could do a Nurse Anesth program :)