Physical medicine and Rehabilitation residencies for osteo students?

[ocwaveoc]

Hey guys.
1) How difficult is it to get into a PM&R residency in general for both allo and osteo...and specifically for osteopathic students?

2) I was under the impression that as long as one did well on COMLEX pretty much any residency is possible (I'm aware of the apparent prejudice towards DOs in certain residencies...and I'm sure some DO students do get into many prestigeous residencies. But, I get the feeling those are a bit more of an exception for DO graduates than it is for MD graduates.....again, I don't deny that DO grads do get into most residencies as long as COMLEX score is high). But, I was informed that in order for DO grads to get into certain "allo" residencies USMLE needs to be taken. Is this true???
If it's true, what residencies are unavailable (or likely unavailable) for DO graduates if USMLE isn't taken?

Thanks.

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[WALKE219]

There are osteo residencies in every specialty... These would require just the COMLEX. There are some joint. Most allo residencies will require the USMLE. If you think you want to go allo, plan on taking the USMLE.

Bottom line, with the right board scores and grades DOs can get into any residency. Whether or not those scores and grades have to be higher than our MD counterparts is debatable. A lot of it depends on the program. Every year more and more DO students specialize. Also when you look at statistics, keep in mind that DOs make up about 5% of practicing physicians. This means that small percentages of overall spots in allo residencies should be normal. Another reason for this is that because of the guidelines, the most qualified DO students typically match into the AOA and must, therefore, forfeit the AMA match. So Just rock your classes and your board exams and anything is possible.

Also, remember that the vast majority of physicians in any specialty did not go to "prestigious" colleges or residencies... In this group there are MANY competent doctors who go on to do great things. I think people sometimes put too much value on the name of the school or residency they attend instead of the quality of the training and experience. Pick a program that is right for you, that will give you the experience you want and the training you desire. - Remember that the AOA and the AMA both have strict guidelines for their programs, and if a program does not meet set requirements, it is shut down no matter if it is at Harvard or rural Kansas.

 

[ocwaveoc]

Thanks so much for the information.
So, what are allo specific residencies? And what are osteo specific residencies? Is physical medicine and rehabilitation a osteo or allo residency?
Thanks.

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

There are osteo residencies in every specialty... These would require just the COMLEX. There are some joint. Most allo residencies will require the USMLE. If you think you want to go allo, plan on taking the USMLE.

Bottom line, with the right board scores and grades DOs can get into any residency. Whether or not those scores and grades have to be higher than our MD counterparts is debatable. A lot of it depends on the program. Every year more and more DO students specialize. Also when you look at statistics, keep in mind that DOs make up about 5% of practicing physicians. This means that small percentages of overall spots in allo residencies should be normal. Another reason for this is that because of the guidelines, the most qualified DO students typically match into the AOA and must, therefore, forfeit the AMA match. So Just rock your classes and your board exams and anything is possible.

Also, remember that the vast majority of physicians in any specialty did not go to "prestigious" colleges or residencies... In this group there are MANY competent doctors who go on to do great things. I think people sometimes put too much value on the name of the school or residency they attend instead of the quality of the training and experience. Pick a program that is right for you, that will give you the experience you want and the training you desire. - Remember that the AOA and the AMA both have strict guidelines for their programs, and if a program does not meet set requirements, it is shut down no matter if it is at Harvard or rural Kansas.

well said.... I'd like to believe they are not haphazardly accrediting schools..

 

[MaximusD]

well said.... I'd like to believe they are not haphazardly accrediting schools..

No, but the rate at which they are opening new DO schools may be detrimental in a few years....

 

[Taus]

ocwaveoc:

1. About how DO's do in PM&R...put it this way: DO's only make up 5-6% of the Docs in this country...but about 20% of PM&R Docs/Residents. The musculoskeletal and (I hate to say this word..) holistic nature of the care in PM&R really attracts a lot of DO's and they are well recieved in this field. There are DO's in all of the best PM&R programs and even the Program Director of one of the best programs (RIC) is a DO.

2. An Allo residency is a residency that is run by MD organizations. DO's are free to apply to these programs and while the COMLEX is accepted, it is highly advisable to take the first step of the USMLE if the program or specialty you are applying to is very competative. An osteo residency is one run by the DO organizations. Only DO's can apply to these. They are both available for just about every specialty, but some exceptions exist (don't know em off the top of my head).

 

[ocwaveoc]

Taus
Thanks for the great information. So, the impression I get is that individual hospital, for an exmple would either be allo, osteo or both in terms of residency classification is concerned. And if a DO or MD student would like to apply cross discipline, taking the appropriate licensing exam is advised.
Do I have this correctly?

 

[MaximusD]

Taus
Thanks for the great information. So, the impression I get is that individual hospital, for an exmple would either be allo, osteo or both in terms of residency classification is concerned. And if a DO or MD student would like to apply cross discipline, taking the appropriate licensing exam is advised.
Do I have this correctly?

somewhat... MDs can't enter the DO match, though.

 

[brookliner7]

I am very interesting in pursuing a PM&R residency as well.
I haven't read anything yet that states whether I will have to take both the USMLE and the COMLEX. Does it just depend on the teaching hospital?
I would hate to study for both exams!

 

[HunterGatherer]

PM&R is probably one of the most receptive residencies that one could choose as a DO. DOs match well in the top allo programs. Also allopathic resdinecies that embrace/teach OMM are increasing in numbers.

 

[Taus]

I am very interesting in pursuing a PM&R residency as well.
I haven't read anything yet that states whether I will have to take both the USMLE and the COMLEX. Does it just depend on the teaching hospital?
I would hate to study for both exams!

its probably not mandatory to take both tests, but if you are considering the top programs in the country you've got to realize that PM&R is a relatively small field and everyone and their mom will be applying to these same top 6-8 programs

 

[ocwaveoc]

I'm sure this is a newbie question.
*How long are COMLEX and USMLE exams? Also, is there a separate OMM exam or is it all a part of COMLEX?
*Would COMLEX taker need to study separately for the USMLE to do well or is the knowledge base pretty much the same so that you really only need to study for the format differences only?
*How difficult is the OMM exam?

 

[HunterGatherer]

COMLEX I and USMLE Step 1 are 1 day exams which will take you 8 hours or so. They are written multiple choice exams in computer format. OMM is included in the COMLEX exam and is NOT seperate. You should learn all the necessary OMM during years 1-2 in your class.

COMLEX and USMLE tend to concentrate on diffferent topics. You should read the COMLEX sticky in the USMLE/COMLEX forum. COMLEX changed their testing format for the better last year so it would be good to see what test takers from 2006 and later say. COMLEX I used to be a 2 day written exam and was poorly written. the changes seem to improve the quality of questions.

I'm a little fuzzy on COMLEX 2. There is a computerized multiple choice exam and also a seperate PE (physical exam) exam which will include PE skills and OMM. As a DO you could take the Step 2 computerized multiple choice exam as well but I have never heard of a DO taking the USMLE Step 2 PE.

COMLEX 3 is just the multiple choice exam without the PE. As a DO taking USMLE step 3 would have no benefit.

http://www.nbome.org/
click on "levels 1, 2, & 3"

I'm sure this is a newbie question.
*How long are COMLEX and USMLE exams? Also, is there a separate OMM exam or is it all a part of COMLEX?
*Would COMLEX taker need to study separately for the USMLE to do well or is the knowledge base pretty much the same so that you really only need to study for the format differences only?
*How difficult is the OMM exam?

 

[ocwaveoc]

Thanks for the great info.
So what are some of the top 6-8 PM &R programs in the country. From Taus' response, I'm assuming that they are all Allo residencies and would require DO grads to take the USMLE. Is this correct?

 

[Taus]

Well its a little different in PM&R b/c only 2 or 3 Osteopathic programs exist (Nassau on Long Island and I'm pretty sure MSU). That being said, programs usually talked about as the elite ones are RIC(northwestern), Kessler(umdnj), Mayo, UT/Baylor, U of Wash, Spaulding (Harvard) and a few others that may not have the "name" but are excellent. Check out the PM&R forums on SDN for more specific info on programs. As for the USMLE, my advice in my previous post