physician salaries in the next decade? less than 100K?

[TooMuchResearch]

There's a neurosurgery PA at my institution that basically handles most of the peds neurosurg stuff, especially seeing consults, rounding on patients and definitely scrubs in to surgeries. No one is safe my friends.

It's a very small step to say "Well I've been acting as a resident all these years so why I can't be just like the attendings?".

Trained PAs have been shown to be procedurally equivalent to 2nd year surgery residents. Certainly, if someone wanted to train them beyond that, they could. I agree with you and don't understand why the surgical specialties think they are somehow the only insulated parties.

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[GUH]

I don't believe that it will happen in the next decade. But, it will happen if our health care system becomes like the NHS in the U.K. Of course, this all depends on who people vote in for president and congress as well in the next few years.

Here is a link on how much physicians make in the U.K. under the NHS (make sure to convert to U.S. dollars):
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/

GP salaries don't seem so bad there considering they probably work reasonable hours. I wonder what their taxes and malpractice look like.

 

[Law2Doc]

I realize it's a hardly a week to many of the surgeons on here. However, it's not like im pulling these opinions out of my ass, they are based on some level of observation. No one was stepping on anyone's toes, I heard docs complain about nurses frequently and never a word about midlevels.

Im not saying this is not a worthwhile issue, because it is certainly very serious.

But the sky isnt falling and we arent going to be paid sub 100k, I mean c'mon.

First I never said you were going to be paid less than $100k, but I can certainly envision you being paid 10-20% less than doctors are today while paying 20% more student loan debt than people are paying today. second, it's absurd to suggest that in a hundred hours at a particular hospital or two you have seen enough to assess the doctor-midlevel dynamic. There are certain things people don't talk about openly with the flies on the wall, the shadowers, the med students, and no I don't think you ever forget they are there. There isn't a resident on here who didn't find that they really didn't appreciate most of the goings on on the wards during med school rotations, and med school is a heck of a lot more than 100 hours. At 100 hours you are a tourist, seeing only the things a country shows to it's tourist, not it's dirty laundry. Even during med school rotations you kind of only appreciate the tourist hot spots, although you see slightly more. It takes some actual immersion to start to see the real issues and not be insulated, usully when you are there in the wee hours of the night and the gossip and dirt start flowing , and when over-tired people start spilling their guts. And then you start to see that's it's not the big love-fest they project to the tourists.

 

[Law2Doc]

Trained PAs have been shown to be procedurally equivalent to 2nd year surgery residents. Certainly, if someone wanted to train them beyond that, they could. I agree with you and don't understand why the surgical specialties think they are somehow the only insulated parties.

The technical skills may be there but the underlying medical training isn't and that's often a very dangerous combo.

I'm not sure where you are getting the "has been shown" data you are describing though -- that sounds a bit bogus. Some residents and PAs will be technically good or bad and there is really no lockstep skillset a second year surgical resident will have across all or even most residencies -- in some academic residencies they may not have even seen the OR much their first year so frankly if a PA has the same skills as a surgeon who really hasn't seen the OR yet, and is just starting that phase of their training, that's not saying much.

 

[DermViser]

First I never said you were going to be paid less than $100k, but I can certainly envision you being paid 10-20% less than doctors are today while paying 20% more student loan debt than people are paying today. second, it's absurd to suggest that in a hundred hours at a particular hospital or two you have seen enough to assess the doctor-midlevel dynamic. There are certain things people don't talk about openly with the flies on the wall, the shadowers, the med students, and no I don't think you ever forget they are there. There isn't a resident on here who didn't find that they really didn't appreciate most of the goings on on the wards during med school rotations, and med school is a heck of a lot more than 100 hours. At 100 hours you are a tourist, seeing only the things a country shows to it's tourist, not it's dirty laundry. Even during med school rotations you kind of only appreciate the tourist hot spots, although you see slightly more. It takes some actual immersion to start to see the real issues and not be insulated, usully when you are there in the wee hours of the night and the gossip and dirt start glowing, and when over-tired people start spilling their guts. And then you start to see that's it's not the big love-fest they project to the tourists.

This. Medical school faculty a lot of times will clamp up their true feelings esp. in front of medical students and even residents, bc the last thing they want is to be called up in front of their chairman or w/ the med school and be labeled as "unprofessional" bc some med student complained about them talking badly about other members of the team. A lot of stuff is said under one's breath or is said with certain people (midlevels) not in the same room.