Physician salary

[Instant Noodles]

How much is a $170k annual salary minus a 33% U.S. income tax and an average malpractice insurance premium?

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[lovemesomeTJ]

Money in the bank?

 

[mfrizzo3]

 

[Wesco]

I was asking about that at work today. We were talking about lucrative being a doctor is after malpractice insurance and school debt.

 

[Tutmos]

The job security is priceless.

 

[Bernoull]

Also doctor's pay VS which alternative career? Considering the flip-side helps put things in perspective.

 

[avatarftw]

a

 

[link2swim06]

How much is a $170k annual salary minus a 33% U.S. income tax and an average malpractice insurance premium?

You do realize the tax system only has you pay 33% on a small portion of that 170K.

Try this calculator... http://www.calcxml.com/do/inc02

Also those number typically include malpractice already taken out.

Plus those numbers do not include benefits which could be worth thousands by themselves and any bonuses are not included within that number either. (i.e. medical, dental, loan repayment programs, etc.)

 

[just one]

A friend of mine is an ER attending and his malpractice premium is 12K per year. Obviously malpractice premiums depends on many things so no one can answer your question. My wife used to work at an agency that sold malpractice insurance, policies vary greatly. Some people couldn't get insurance, some pay 100K per year, others pay the 12K like I mentioned.

 

[southerndoc]

12k for an ER physician is a bargain!!!!

 

[bronx43]

Accounting for time spent training, student loan debt, years worked, hours worked per year and disproportionate income taxes – the net adjusted hourly wage of an internist is $34.46 per hour, while that of a high school teacher is $30.47 per hour.

Though the gross income of an internal medicine physician is 4 times that of a high school teacher, the adjusted net hourly wage of an internal medicine physician is only 1.13 times that of a high school teacher.

Go to www.benjaminbrownmd.com for more details.

No one is saying your average internist or family physician is overpaid. In fact, most would contend that they should be better compensated for their contributions. The same goes for general surgeons. The salary issues start to arise when you get into the $400k+ orthos, rad oncs, radiologists, etc.

 

[shouldvestudied]

Accounting for time spent training, student loan debt, years worked, hours worked per year and disproportionate income taxes – the net adjusted hourly wage of an internist is $34.46 per hour, while that of a high school teacher is $30.47 per hour.

Though the gross income of an internal medicine physician is 4 times that of a high school teacher, the adjusted net hourly wage of an internal medicine physician is only 1.13 times that of a high school teacher.

Go to www.benjaminbrownmd.com for more details.

I took a look at your article. Just as the comments have pointed out at your blog, your assumptions are demonstrably false and therefore any conclusions you have drawn from them are also suspect. This is a good case of someone starting out with a premise they want to prove and then making the data fit to match their expectations.

 

[phospho]

The job security is priceless.

I think this is the most underestimated and often overlooked fact. I rarely hear people talking about it, and I think it's because most medical students have never had to actually work for a living before starting medical school.

Almost every one I know has been laid off atleast once. I know people who have been looking for a job for more than a year. They are willing to relocate to anywhere, just to make half of what they used to make, and they still can't find anything. In fact, a very close friend of mine finished her master's in Psychology, and is currently working in a pizza joint making $7.35 an hour here in Columbus. Another very good friend of mine has an MBA, and was laid off at Time Warner Cable. I kid you not - he is currently working 90-100 hours a week at 3 jobs, making an average of $8.50 an hour, just to be able to pay his mortgage and car payments. He had no idea he was going to get laid off, and has been at TWC for over 10 years.

The fact that you KNOW you will have a job no matter what is truly priceless. I will gladly make 100K a year if it gives me the ability to go to bed at night knowing that I will have a job no matter what.

 

[MOHS_01]

No one is saying your average internist or family physician is overpaid. In fact, most would contend that they should be better compensated for their contributions. The same goes for general surgeons. The salary issues start to arise when you get into the $400k+ orthos, rad oncs, radiologists, etc.

I'm sorry -- I must have missed you being named Feinberg's replacement. Seriously, though, where do you derive the authority to determine anyone's worth? What constitutes a "fair" income? I'm anxiously awaiting the response.... and ground rules are that it cannot include: "well, I think/believe/feel", "others agree", or anything equally subjective.

I think this is the most underestimated and often overlooked fact. I rarely hear people talking about it, and I think it's because most medical students have never had to actually work for a living before starting medical school.

Almost every one I know has been laid off atleast once. I know people who have been looking for a job for more than a year. They are willing to relocate to anywhere, just to make half of what they used to make, and they still can't find anything. In fact, a very close friend of mine finished her master's in Psychology, and is currently working in a pizza joint making $7.35 an hour here in Columbus. Another very good friend of mine has an MBA, and was laid off at Time Warner Cable. I kid you not - he is currently working 90-100 hours a week at 3 jobs, making an average of $8.50 an hour, just to be able to pay his mortgage and car payments. He had no idea he was going to get laid off, and has been at TWC for over 10 years.

The fact that you KNOW you will have a job no matter what is truly priceless. I will gladly make 100K a year if it gives me the ability to go to bed at night knowing that I will have a job no matter what.

Sweetpea, I hate to tell you this, but you know no such thing. You may believe it, and this belief may be backed up by historical standards, but that does not make it any more true. The truth is there is absolutely nothing guaranteed in this world. Still certain? Take a look at the anesthesia or, better yet, the pathology forums on this site. Google physician unemployment if you need further evidence; this issue is real enough that is has, in the past, garnered publication in the NEJM, spoken of at professional organization meetings, etc.

Economics (and not that BS they speak of on CNN and entry level courses) and economic history really should be a general ed requirement in college. There are a multitude of factors that account for employment levels, none of which are guaranteed to remain stable. You can alter the supply -- if you remove either the artificial restraints on the number of providers (via an increase in the number of MD/DOs trained domestically, an easing of FMG importation numbers, an increase in the number of extenders, expansion of privileges to pharmacists, etc -- all of which are being discussed or in the works). You can alter the demand via transferring more of the costs onto the patient directly. You can place economic pressures on current provider groups that disincentivizes the addition of new providers (no one wants a smaller slice of a shrinking pie, afterall). All of these things are in the works....and all of these thing will have an adverse impact on your future employment / entrepreneurial potential.

It would behoove everyone to choose the non-head-in-the-sand method of decision making.... and wake up to realize that you too will soon be on the receiving end of a grand political *** ********.

 

[bronx43]

I'm sorry -- I must have missed you being named Feinberg's replacement. Seriously, though, where do you derive the authority to determine anyone's worth? What constitutes a "fair" income? I'm anxiously awaiting the response.... and ground rules are that it cannot include: "well, I think/believe/feel", "others agree", or anything equally subjective.

What? I never said it was my opinion that certain physicians are overpaid. I simply said that when arguments are brought up about excessive compensation for physicians, it's almost never directed towards internists or family docs. Therefore, I feel that his "analysis" of the perception of physician incomes (limited to internists) is largely impotent.

A big part of my stance on this whole reimbursement system is anchored on the fact that a loss of a free market inherently means that true value can't be determined - especially by a third party.

 

[MOHS_01]

What? I never said it was my opinion that certain physicians are overpaid. I simply said that when arguments are brought up about excessive compensation for physicians, it's almost never directed towards internists or family docs. Therefore, I feel that his "analysis" of the perception of physician incomes (limited to internists) is largely impotent.

A big part of my stance on this whole reimbursement system is anchored on the fact that a loss of a free market inherently means that true value can't be determined - especially by a third party.

I apologize if I read more into the remark below than was intended... but, if it were a mistake, it would be an easy enough one to make:

.... The salary issues start to arise when you get into the $400k+ orthos, rad oncs, radiologists, etc.

I would also humbly suggest that you are being far to dogmatic and rigid in your requirements for a functioning market... although I do agree that there will always be problems with third party valuations. If we were to remove the layers upon layers of contractually privileged pricing, not to mention the central price fixing mechanism that is MC, I believe that prices for many services would decline and likely in a rapid fashion...