1. The SDN iPhone App is back and free through November! Get it today and please post a review on the App Store!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice

Physicians and RFID

Discussion in 'Topics in Healthcare' started by Jon Davis, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis I killed the bank.
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1
    As we are making new headway into the millenium, VeriChip Inc. has made a Radio Frequency Identification chip (RFID). The main thrust of the chip is to use them in patients in hospital systems as a record keeping system. In addition, it can be extended to handle your personal commerce, personal ID, encode genetic information, and can be used to locate you by GPS.

    http://www.verichipcorp.com/

    FDA approval for VeriChip

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/

    Tommy Thompson, a board member of VeriChip and former Health Secretary, claims to be the first in line to use them. However, he says he is waiting for it to catch on. I'll let you form your own opinion about this...

    http://www.infowars.com/articles/bb/rfid_thompson_denies_implant_doubts.htm

    I'm not one of those posters who puts up controversial crap then cuts and runs. Here is my opinion. I think it is a slippery slope towards enslavement. People have a right to freedom and this technology can be very easily abused by people in positions of power. I think there is absolutely no reason to have this technology for what it has been claimed to be designed for (when it comes to humans). A couple senators, I think included Sen. Clinton, have started on making a bill to unify the paper work necessary for patients to fill out. Somewhat of a comprehensive form so that one isn't filling out many redundant forms. I think the best way to track patients if you are worried about it is to apply a bar code to their hospital bed or patient gown. No implant needed. This reminds me of the tattoos the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc. recieved from the Nazi party when they were enslaved in concentration camps.


    As future physicians, we all are going to confront this issue. Will you support it and for what reasons?
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. jebus

    jebus Membership Revoked
    Removed 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,526
    Likes Received:
    6
    I think RFID will be great to automate drug delivery - getting those robots to go to rooms delivering pills and stuff based on RFID tags seems great - and stuff like that. It will totally lead to fewer mistakes in very avoidable situations.
    As far as human implantation? It seems superfluous. Can't they just stick a transmitter on a wrist band? You know, something temporary and removable? Can't they miniaturize and adapt the technology to enable healthcare workers to monitor vital signs externally rather than internally? How long do their batteries last? How powerful are these RFID tags? How far away can someone read them? I don't think it's going to lead to enslavement but it does raise red flags about privacy and patient consent.
    It's like this, Walmart has terabytes of info about you in their databases. A huge amount of information about where individuals shop, when, how they pay, their buying habits, etc. All of this is without your consent, but they can collect it so they do. I don't want to put my patients in the same position where I am surreptitiously gathering info (or aiding others) about people when they are at their most vulnerable and need my help the most.
    Don't get me wrong, technology is cool, but do we need to employ it just because it's cool?
     
  4. amandil

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    The value of RFID lies in inventory tracking and in process management -- both of which are critical aspects of the healthcare delivery system. An RFID tag can be attached to anything: patient wristbands, surgical tools, pill bottles, etc. A patient who's data is already in the system (such as vital statistics, background info, identifying information) could now "check in" or be "discharged" simply by reading their RFID wristband. It will be nearly impossible to leave a retractor behind inside a person undergoing surgery (pretty ridiculous as it is, but it happens! :eek: ) because it will show up on an inventory scan. The possibilities are really endless... RFID will be the tool that allows clinical informatics to escape the realm of internet-only and enter the physical world in which we all work and interact.

    But I do agree that an implantable RFID tag is too Big Brotherish!!
     
  5. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis I killed the bank.
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1
  6. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis I killed the bank.
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1
    Does anyone see that we have the power to change this? This is an issue that will change American society forever.

    I suppose the mundane threads like balancing videogames and books are more important to today's aspiring physicians. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis I killed the bank.
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1
    OK. I take it barely anyone really cares to post. Thats fine, but I will leave you with this:

    "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain (aka Samuel Langhorne Clemens)

    I'm not giving up and will fight RFID implantation in my patients!
     
  8. gonadotropins

    gonadotropins Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think you've been listening to a little too much de la rocha. Making the connection between these chips and enslavement and what the nazi's did is good use of hyperbole. Your outro on what you claim is the police state is a nice touch, but I don't see how it's germane to the issue. Also, when you post a link to leftist-propoganda.com or whatever that website was, you may have alienated a few people.

    As far as the chip is concerned, I'm not sure that there is a great need for this technology. Purportedly, this technology provides a bar code that is linked to information such as your name, blood type, and other such things? I think the issue with medical wristbands may be non-compliance but I would agree, implanting devices with GPS (if that is what is intended) is uncalled for.

    However, the need to centralize patient records such as lab results, films, progress notes, etc. is needed. Our healthcare system is fragmented and communication between providers is extremely limited and is further inhibited by laws like HIPPA.
     
  9. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis I killed the bank.
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1
    You've just spit out what I outlined above except for the HIPPA.

    "I think you've been listening to a little too much de la rocha. Making the connection between these chips and enslavement and what the nazi's did is good use of hyperbole. Your outro on what you claim is the police state is a nice touch, but I don't see how it's germane to the issue."

    - Just an example of what is going on. What is the difference between Nazi tattoos and implanted chips? They both serve the same purpose, identification. I admit I added the end as an EDIT (aka. the outro). Ask the above posters. Mainly to encit some kind of response from people. I'll take it off if it makes people uncomfortable. However, if it does why would it hinder anyone from posting?

    "Also, when you post a link to leftist-propoganda.com or whatever that website was, you may have alienated a few people."

    - The facts are the facts. Why does it matter what site you get it from IF it has been sourced? All they did was link it and post it online. Here is the original link:

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/TechNews/Other/2005/12/15/1354521-ap.html
    I guess because it didn't come from MSNBC it's not credible. :rolleyes: Check it out for youself. By the way, they are not affiliated with any party or platform. They just put up non-partisan and credible information.
     
  10. gonadotropins

    gonadotropins Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry for being inflammatory. I think i was trying to pick a fight.
     
  11. Chinorean

    Chinorean Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't know what all the fuss is about. I got myself chipped last month and I haven't lost myself since!
     
  12. f_w

    f_w 1K Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,900
    Likes Received:
    2
    These implantable chips have been around for a while, mainly for cattle and pets. Kind of neat, you can get the cows serial number just by swiping a wand over her neck. They even have feeding stands automated using RFID. Cows with different rates of milk production get different mixtures of feed. The feeding station automatically recognizes the cow and mixes the right carb/protein mix.

    Especially for some of the ED frequent flyers a chip would be kind of useful. If you can pull up someones electronic chart just by checking them in with the RFID system, lots of administrative footwork could be streamlined (for the drug seekers you could even put up a vending machine in the ED parking lot. It automatically dispenses 'mofin' or oxycontin. the client just has to hold his neck close to the probe protruding from the device :laugh: )
     
  13. jebus

    jebus Membership Revoked
    Removed 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,526
    Likes Received:
    6
    Your post is a lot funnier when ED=erectile disfunction...
     
  14. odrade1

    odrade1 UASOM alum
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    OP,

    It sounds as if you oppose this technology for reasons that do not appear to me to be reasons to oppose this technology as physicians. I too am wary of technologies, laws, and popular attitudes that contribute to limiting freedoms or making it easier for corporations and governments spy on their consumers/citizens. However, this is not really a reason to oppose the technology as a physician.

    As a citizen & a humanist, I find this technology a little unsettling. If this technology is expanded to be used for public ID uses (in leu of driver's licences, etc.) then I find it rather creepy. However, as a physician-to-be, I find the idea of the medical ID chip pretty exciting.

    It seems that this technology could save time, money, prevent some accidental harms to patients, and also save lives. The potentials for privacy violations of medical information (with this tech) don't seem any more significant than the current reality of medical files available on computers, over the net, on electronic media, etc. So I would argue that--as physicians--we should be excited about the proper development and use of such a technology. Whether or not you believe the chips are dangerous to freedom or that they are evil (there are tons of conservative christians who equate this technology with the "mark of the beast," so there is a possible religious objection too) is an issue about the chips that is separate from the issue of whether the chips would be good for patients as patients.

    So maybe we should vote (civilly) against legislation favoring the use of this tech (for freedom/political reasons), but vote (in professional organizations) to support such technology, since it benefits those in our care. Sociologists call this kind of situation role conflict.
     
  15. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis I killed the bank.
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have deep objections to using implantable chips for patient care. I'm very clear what my opinion is. Using the argument that "it will save lives" and all that noise is pure conjecture.

    Here is a link to an article of young people who wanted these chips:

    http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=internetNews&storyID=2006-01-05T224334Z_01_YUE581651_RTRIDST_0_OUKIN-UK-TECHNOLOGY-IMPLANTS.XML

    The main benefit they enjoyed was ease and comfort. Make your own opinion and post it here!
     

Share This Page