Pitbulls - a question for pre-meds and pre-vets

[mercaptovizadeh]

There has been a spate of pitbull attacks in the San Francisco Bay Area. I find this extremely annoying, and I was wondering what sort of solution people on this forum would advocate.

I would advocate complete and total extermination of these animals in the entire bay area, and a strict banning of any more pitbulls.

Any opinions?

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[Fusion]

The animals are not the problem, the owners are. Although pit bulls by nature are somewhat more aggressive than other breeds, the dogs that you are referring to likely are bred to be vicious. Tougher penalties for irresponsible owners should be enacted, not extermination of their dogs.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

The animals are not the problem, the owners are. Although pit bulls by nature are somewhat more aggressive than other breeds, the dogs that you are referring to likely are bred to be vicious. Tougher penalties for irresponsible owners should be enacted, not extermination of their dogs.

Well, there is some legitimacy to that argument, but what sorts of penalties to owners are you talking about? If you argue for that, I would say life imprisonment would be necessary for a pitbull killing, and the standard sentence for assault for an injury. Treat the pitbull as if it is a human criminal, and any sentences go to the owner, with the pitbull being euthanized.

On the other hand, aren't we in some way putting the rights of owners to own a particular breed of animal, above the rights of children to play in their own backyards without being attacked, people to walk down the street, etc. In other words, why should I have to fear for my very life when I walk down the street, because of an animal that should be domesticated, but apparently has very violent tendencies?

I say kill 'em all (but in a humane way).

 

[Fusion]

Well, there is some legitimacy to that argument, but what sorts of penalties to owners are you talking about? If you argue for that, I would say life imprisonment would be necessary for a pitbull killing, and the standard sentence for assault for an injury. Treat the pitbull as if it is a human criminal, and any sentences go to the owner, with the pitbull being euthanized.

On the other hand, aren't we in some way putting the rights of owners to own a particular breed of animal, above the rights of children to play in their own backyards without being attacked, people to walk down the street, etc. In other words, why should I have to fear for my very life when I walk down the street, because of an animal that should be domesticated, but apparently has very violent tendencies?

I say kill 'em all (but in a humane way).

People should never fear that they will be attacked and killed by a dog. As it stands now in most cases, any animal that has killed a human being is immediately destroyed, and that is how it should remain. This is unfortunate, but once an animal has been trained to be dangerous/lethal, there is really no way to re-train it to be "nice" (indeed, you cannot teach an old dog new tricks). Not only should the animal be euthanized, but the owners should be hit with serious prison time. However, I do not agree that all pit bulls in the Bay Area should be killed by virtue of the fact that they are pit bulls.

 

[Camillekc]

It wouldn't be necessary to kill them. I think Manitoba and Ontario have both implemented a policy where you can keep your current pitbull, but none can be bred or brought into the province. I think there's only one left in Manitoba now. It seems more humane and realistic than to kill a bunch of dogs that haven't done anything wrong.

 

[Masamune4567]

It wouldn't be necessary to kill them. I think Manitoba and Ontario have both implemented a policy where you can keep your current pitbull, but none can be bred or brought into the province. I think there's only one left in Manitoba now. It seems more humane and realistic than to kill a bunch of dogs that haven't done anything wrong.

How is that more humane?

Instead of killing them you make it illegal for them to breed? It's pretty much the same thing as killing the pitbulls. I personally think you shouldn't be able to tell someone what kind of dog they can/cant have, but I think if they are off of their property they should have to wear a muzzle. This goes for all dogs.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

How is that more humane?

Instead of killing them you make it illegal for them to breed? It's pretty much the same thing as killing the pitbulls. I personally think you shouldn't be able to tell someone what kind of dog they can/cant have, but I think if they are off of their property they should have to wear a muzzle. This goes for all dogs.

By this logic, I should be able to take my pet komodo dragon to Golden Gate Park, and let him off his leash for "exercise" just because I have a right to "whatever pet I want."

These animals need to go. Period. They have killed just too many people. A few years ago, they killed a young woman in San Francisco. In the last month alone, there have been FOUR attacks/attempted attacks. First, a 12 year old boy was killed. Then a 66 year old woman was mauled. Yesterday, an 8 year old girl had her face and neck slashed (nearly killed), and her mother was all bit up. Just today, another man was chased down the street by two pitbulls, and he had to flee into his house to save his life.

This is getting ridiculous. Please!

 

[riceman04]

The animals are not the problem, the owners are. Although pit bulls by nature are somewhat more aggressive than other breeds, the dogs that you are referring to likely are bred to be vicious. Tougher penalties for irresponsible owners should be enacted, not extermination of their dogs.

You are on point!!!!! My brother had a pitbull (Zeus) for fifteen yrs. That dog was the most faithful, protective, and yet most loving dog I have known (well except for my golden retriever Boomer). Ok, enough with the anecdote.
Fusion you hit the nail dead smack on the head. These dogs are being trained to be viscious!

And about the dog who mauled that lady to death a few years ago: That was NOT a pitbull terrier (Yeah the media is notorious for trying to group things that dont fit under one label). It was an Italian bred fighting dog that killed her.

 

[MD1Day]

There has been a spate of pitbull attacks in the San Francisco Bay Area. I find this extremely annoying, and I was wondering what sort of solution people on this forum would advocate.

I would advocate complete and total extermination of these animals in the entire bay area, and a strict banning of any more pitbulls.

Any opinions?

I think if people would stop treating their animals like sh** and raise them with love, compassion, and positive reinforcement then you wouldnt have animals with such bad dispositions. Bad inline breeding also contributes to this problem, not to mention neglect and then stupid young punks who get these dogs to look "cool" and teach them to fight and to hate.

Pits have the same genetics as any other dog...they just get the bad rap for what people have turned them into. I had a pit growing up and she was the sweetest, most loving thing because we treated her and loved her like one should be treated.

Sorry to get so heated, but these discussions P*ss me off when people discriminate...it's the same thing as people saying that because of someone's skin color they should be banned from wherever. JMHO.

 

[Masamune4567]

By this logic, I should be able to take my pet komodo dragon to Golden Gate Park, and let him off his leash for "exercise" just because I have a right to "whatever pet I want."

These animals need to go. Period. They have killed just too many people. A few years ago, they killed a young woman in San Francisco. In the last month alone, there have been FOUR attacks/attempted attacks. First, a 12 year old boy was killed. Then a 66 year old woman was mauled. Yesterday, an 8 year old girl had her face and neck slashed (nearly killed), and her mother was all bit up. Just today, another man was chased down the street by two pitbulls, and he had to flee into his house to save his life.

This is getting ridiculous. Please!

What right do you have to tell someone else they cannot own a dog? They should be forced to wear a muzzle, not banished from society for being aggressive.

By your logic, poor people who live in ghettos are far more likely to commit murder than wealthy people. Should we get rid of them too for being a burden on society? Think before you post k thx.

 

[Masamune4567]

I think if people would stop treating their animals like sh** and raise them with love, compassion, and positive reinforcement then you wouldnt have animals with such bad dispositions. Bad inline breeding also contributes to this problem, not to mention neglect and then stupid young punks who get these dogs to look "cool" and teach them to fight and to hate.

What right do you have to tell someone how to raise their dog? If someone wants to teach their dog to hate and fight as a guard dog, who are you to tell them what they can do and can't do? There are nice humans, aggressive humans, arrogant humans etc.... Should we kill all the aggressive humans too, because they don't show 'love, compassion, positive reinforcement'?

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

To the twit who seems to confuse pitbulls with humans, pitbulls are not people - they're dogs.

kthxgbye

 

[MD1Day]

To the twit who seems to confuse pitbulls with humans, pitbulls are not people - they're dogs.

kthxgbye

Don't call me a twit...and i'm allowed my own opinions, as are you.

 

[MD1Day]

What right do you have to tell someone how to raise their dog? If someone wants to teach their dog to hate and fight as a guard dog, who are you to tell them what they can do and can't do? There are nice humans, aggressive humans, arrogant humans etc.... Should we kill all the aggressive humans too, because they don't show 'love, compassion, positive reinforcement'?

the right i have is called animal cruelty prevention, I've worked for them for two years state wide. And we make sure these people serve at least 2 years for it.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Don't call me a twit...and i'm allowed my own opinions, as are you.

I wasn' talking to you. I was talking to Masamune. Read the two posts before mine.

 

[tigress]

yep, I think mercaptovizadeh has finally gone over the edge, not only promoting crazy ideas but also calling names!

btw, gay people are immoral because they love each other the way they do, and yet you promote killing hundreds of animals who's only crime is being a certain breed? uh huh, right. You do realize the Bible has injunctions against animal cruelty, right? Don't argue that it's to protect human life, because, as other posters have pointed out, it's the way the dogs are raised that's the problem. No pit bulls? Fine, they'll train Dobermans to attack, or German Shepherds, or any other big breed. The Nazis preferred German Shepherds, themselves. Also, the media often pins an attack on a pit bull when in fact it was a different breed, or a mixed breed.

 

[redruby]

Wow, I didn't know it was possible for me to get so pissed off this early in the morning. There are no such things as bad dogs or bad breeds, just bad owners and bad breeders. How the hell are these dogs chasing people down the street and breaking into backyards? You think they're sitting around planning a course of attack? If you're afraid to walk down the street then tell your ******* neighbors to keep their dogs leashed.

 

[freesolo]

i dont get what gay ppl have to do with this discussion tigress =p,
and nobody should be calling each other twits....
Well i can tell you one thing in the ghetto it is the preferred dog to make a killa, maybe its the ppl not the dog? My freind use to have it come at his arm all the time with some padding on it of course. I never got why but i dont get near that thing anymore.

 

[jbrice1639]

There has been a spate of pitbull attacks in the San Francisco Bay Area. I find this extremely annoying, and I was wondering what sort of solution people on this forum would advocate.

I would advocate complete and total extermination of these animals in the entire bay area, and a strict banning of any more pitbulls.

Any opinions?

i would emphatically oppose this idea. no dog should be killed because of what another dog has done, and no dog owners should lose their pets because other owners cannot properly train their pets.

the logic behind killing all pitbulls over a small number of attacks would be no different than saying gang members have attacked and killed several people, therefore the best solution is to take all people dressed in gang colors everywhere and kill them.

however, the current system where dogs that have attacked people are destroyed is a necessary measure because once a dog has tasted blood, it is nearly impossible to train them not to attack again. but seriously, killing off an entire breed of dog becasue a few people don't know how to train them is just absurd...

 

[mynamewastaken]

I have owned a pit bull for 3 years and have had multiple dogs of other breeds before her. She is the sweetest dog I have ever gotten to know. I admit that there are many cases where pit bulls attack people but on the whole the breed IS NOT aggressive or angry. I implore you to read about the natural characteristics of the breed before you jump to conclusions. They are an extraordinarily loyal dog who shows much affection for their owners. That has been my experience as well. Many of the pit bulls you hear about that attack people come from blood crossed or specifically bred blood lines where fighting dogs were in their line. That is a persons fault, not the dog. the reason pit bulls were originally trained to fight was because of their strengh, agility, and intelligence....certainly not due to any innate aggression.

i dont get what gay ppl have to do with this discussion tigress =p,
and nobody should be calling each other twits....
Well i can tell you one thing in the ghetto it is the preferred dog to make a killa, maybe its the ppl not the dog? My freind use to have it come at his arm all the time with some padding on it of course. I never got why but i dont get near that thing anymore.

 

[dancinjenn]

I'll bet that mercapto has never owned a large breed dog. I once had a purebred Rott who I could walk without a leash he was so faithful and well behaved...though in deference to the law when I walked him during the day I kept him leashed. Our yard at that time wasn't fenced in either and he never ran away or strayed. Samson was 110 lbs, so there was no way I was going to be able to control him if he wanted to go somewhere.

My brother-in-law owns a purebred german shepard that weighs in at 90 lbs, they used to live with us so I helped raise her as well. She is very protective and loving of the family and she will stop anybody from entering the yard that she doesn't want in there...but she won't attack, she will sit in front of them and bark and run circles around them and bark for our attention. We have had a couple of different meterpersons who have been caught like this. Neither of them confessed to being scared of being mauled because of our dogs behavior, because Libby kept her distance (about 10 feet), and the one woman even apologized because she didn't call out a warning when she saw the beware of dog sign.

We currently are raising a siberian husky mix, who at 7 mo. weighs in at 50 lbs. Georgette is progressing well and I can even take both Libby and her for a walk at the same time. They walk one on either side of me. For reference I'm only 5'4" so a both dogs are hip high on me, and I even take them to the pet store and they just sit by my side and play nice with the other animals, both cats and dogs, that are there as well.

I know that this is a long post but I have owned multiple dogs who at one point or another have had bad raps for attacking people. None of them has ever made even one aggressive move against anybody. The owners are responsible in these situations, and should be punished accordingly, both jail time and heavy fines should apply as well as them not being able to own another dog - ever. It is not the dogs fault, they just want to be loved and if the owner shows affection for aggressive behavior then that is what the dog will do.

 

[Peterock]

Both of my dogs have been attacked by pittbulls on seperate occassions (they are both golden retrievers). I have noticed that the owners are usually ******ed and it's obviously the owners fault. (The first time my dog was attacked I came very close to killing the pitbull myself.) I would also say that Jack Russel Terriers are by far the most aggressive dogs I've ever seen - they're just not big enough to kill people.

I do think you guys are missing the point and that is that many pitbulls are bred to be violent fighting dogs. I actually talked to a couple who had to put down their first pitbull b/c he was becoming far too aggressive at 6months. That is by NO means normal for any dog. We have a real problem here.

I love my dogs, but you cannot have them attacking people or even worse killing them. This isn't a little thing. Yes the media has centralized this but the penalties of having a pet that you cannot control are not enough. I think that having a pitbull or other dog that you know is aggressive that subsequently kills someone should be subject to at least the charge of manslaughter according to federal courts.

There were drug dealers in a city about 2 hrs away that had a pet tiger on their property. At some point it grabbed and killed a 12 year old boy by pulling him under the fence. I don't really see that much of a difference in an aggressive rottweiler behind the fence or a juvenile tiger. Again, just b/c your animal makes you feel safer, doesn't mean it makes everyone else safe. It's quite the opposite.

I think that dogs should have to get behavioral tests at different ages (ie 1yr 3yrs 5yrs etc)... it should be synonymous with rabies shots. Sure it might cost a little bit of money, but owning a dog is a luxury.

 

[leopanther]

What right do you have to tell someone else they cannot own a dog? They should be forced to wear a muzzle, not banished from society for being aggressive.

By your logic, poor people who live in ghettos are far more likely to commit murder than wealthy people. Should we get rid of them too for being a burden on society? Think before you post k thx.

I agree 100%

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

yep, I think mercaptovizadeh has finally gone over the edge, not only promoting crazy ideas but also calling names!

btw, gay people are immoral because they love each other the way they do, and yet you promote killing hundreds of animals who's only crime is being a certain breed? uh huh, right. You do realize the Bible has injunctions against animal cruelty, right? Don't argue that it's to protect human life, because, as other posters have pointed out, it's the way the dogs are raised that's the problem. No pit bulls? Fine, they'll train Dobermans to attack, or German Shepherds, or any other big breed. The Nazis preferred German Shepherds, themselves. Also, the media often pins an attack on a pit bull when in fact it was a different breed, or a mixed breed.

I can always count on you, tigress, to find some absurd way of opposing me. You do realize that the Bible also provides for a death penalty for the owner of an ox if it is known that the ox is a "gorer" and the ox gores and kills a man. You know that full well, don't you?

And we're not talking about oxen here, we are talking about a breed of dog with a proven history of viciousness and violence, with very little utility for society. It simply isn't worth it.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I have owned a pit bull for 3 years and have had multiple dogs of other breeds before her. She is the sweetest dog I have ever gotten to know. I admit that there are many cases where pit bulls attack people but on the whole the breed IS NOT aggressive or angry. I implore you to read about the natural characteristics of the breed before you jump to conclusions. They are an extraordinarily loyal dog who shows much affection for their owners. That has been my experience as well. Many of the pit bulls you hear about that attack people come from blood crossed or specifically bred blood lines where fighting dogs were in their line. That is a persons fault, not the dog. the reason pit bulls were originally trained to fight was because of their strengh, agility, and intelligence....certainly not due to any innate aggression.

I am not blaming the dogs here. I am blaming people for breeding them and creating such vicious, aggressive monsters. And since we can't imprison people for owning dangerous pitbulls, it's time the breed was outlawed altogether.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I am OUTRAGED! by what I just saw on the evening news. Another pitbull attack in the Bay Area. A woman was walking a golden retriever when a SPAYED female pitbull ran across the street and attacked the other dog. She was about to massacre him (she bit his neck, ears, and legs), when the woman intervened. Then the pitbull turned on her and bit her legs, arms and hands, elbows, etc. Hearing the screams, the owner came out of his house and started yelling at the woman, the VICTIM!

This is outrageous! Why are we allowing these four-footed assassins and the demented owners out on the streets. This dog must be destroyed (as should be all pitbulls), and her owner deserves the sentence that would normally be given for assault on another person.

 

[Centinel]

btw, gay people are immoral because they love each other the way they do

This thread needs to be closed. Tigress, that is utterly inappropriate, and is called bigotry.

 

[Peterock]

I am OUTRAGED! by what I just saw on the evening news. Another pitbull attack in the Bay Area. A woman was walking a golden retriever when a SPAYED female pitbull ran across the street and attacked the other dog. She was about to massacre him (she bit his neck, ears, and legs), when the woman intervened. Then the pitbull turned on her and bit her legs, arms and hands, elbows, etc. Hearing the screams, the owner came out of his house and started yelling at the woman, the VICTIM!

This is outrageous! Why are we allowing these four-footed assassins and the demented owners out on the streets. This dog must be destroyed (as should be all pitbulls), and her owner deserves the sentence that would normally be given for assault on another person.

At this point, you buy a gun shoot the dog in the head and the owner in the knees. I'm kidding... no I'm really not.

Mercapto, I'm with you. The owner of that dog needs to spend a lot of time in prison. I actually witnessed a chow mix attacking a person at a dog park - the guy worked at a shelter for 2 years and pinned the dog down by it's throat. The dumb**** middle aged owner started screaming "what are you doing to my dog!". Meanwhile this guy has gashes on his wrists from the dog attacking him. He was actually kind of enough to NOT call the police and to NOT press charges - which I don't think the woman really understood.