Pitt vs UCLA vs UCSD

[Dulcina]

I'm trying to decide between Pitt, UCSD, and UCLA (pending getting off the waitlist). Anyone have any opinions? I have a few pros and cons bouncing around my head, which are:

Pitt:
+strong surgery department (how are UCSD's and UCLA's?)
+low cost of living
-Pittsburgh (just my opinion/impression)
-weather

UCSD
+great location
+lecture based (I love lecture lol)
+strong research (although honestly there's strong research at all 3 schools)
-5 weeks to study for boards

UCLA
+weather
+systems based
-smog/traffic
-cost of living

I'm leaning towards a Cali school just because of weather, but I don't want to be regretting my decision of turning down a school known for its surgery department (I'm not SURE i want to do surgery, but its an interest).

Thanks for any input!

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[silverlining1]

Anecdotally:

- I have heard very good things about our surgical training. Our students have been impressive on away rotations and in the match. That goes for all our clinical training in general.

- I know 5 weeks for the boards doesn't sound like a lot, but as we said at Second Look, the vast majority of students actually only take 2-3 of those weeks to study and vacation for the rest! UCSD prepares you well with their curriculum; for example, the courses that are taught in winter and spring are emphasized on the boards, so you're studying for the boards while you're in class. I understand it may be attractive to have more weeks, but I have not talked to anyone at UCSD who said they wished they had more time. Honest.

 

[216397]

Super tough choice...if I were you, I would pick UCSD, though. I went there for undergrad and it's a lovely campus and atmosphere to be in. If you want to stay in California, it will also make it much easier to get residencies there.

I wondered what happened to you and I am glad to see that you have such great choices!

 

[RoadRunner17]

It's ultimately up to you to figure out what it is that you like and don't like about each school and how much you are willing to pay for what these schools offer. I am assuming that you are a CA resident since you are holding an acceptance to UCSD. Assuming you haven't been offered merit scholarships as well. I would not worry about UCLA for now, because that's a hypothetical.. I'd focus on Pitt vs UCSD, make your choice, and then if UCLA comes through, pick between your initial choice and UCLA. Just my 2 cents. Anyway..

So in the financial calculus, what does Pitt have that UCSD doesn't have that would be worth the extra costs of attending? This can range from the subjective gut feeling to something more concrete such as a research thesis requirement or some curricular aspect. I don't think Pitt's strong surgery program will be a significant +/- in the long run or even the short run. It's not like UCSD or UCLA don't have surgery programs either.

Personally, you sound like you want to go to UCSD.

 

[tallisman]

choose a school for a specific department when you do your residency! it won't matter for med school, especially between 3 good schools, you'll get a good surgery rotation no matter where you go. personally pittsburgh weather and quality of life sucks, too - i lived there for 4 years, pretty unhappily. unless it's close to family or something, definitely go to california!

 

[RL536]

i think if you're going to be happier in california then there really seems to be no reason to go to pitt... you only mentioned the surgery department and you're not even sure you want to do surgery! i wouldn't advise someone to choose a school for that reason. they are all strong schools, so go with the place where you're going to be happiest -- if you want surgery, i guarantee going to ucla or ucsd will NOT lower any chance you have of a good residency compared to if you had gone to pitt. doesn't work like that.

good luck and congrats!

 

[0Complications]

Is cost of living really that radically different between UCLA and UCSD?

I know my little sister has a tiny studio on PB in San Diego and it's $1000 a month. Cost of living seems like it would suck at both UCSD and UCLA.

 

[bobdogsam43]

i believe i read somewhere on SDN that UCLA kids get 8-10 weeks of protected time for boards studying......i'd pick UCLA....but go with where you'll be comfortable


try doing a search on UCLA vs. UCSD....this is a pretty common decision.


here's a bit about ucla:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7758912&postcount=5

 

[talbo]

Is cost of living really that radically different between UCLA and UCSD?

I know my little sister has a tiny studio on PB in San Diego and it's $1000 a month. Cost of living seems like it would suck at both UCSD and UCLA.

UCLA's apartments range from $2200 and up for 2 bedrooms from what my friends told me and UCSD you can get a 2 bdrm for $1500 so like ~$350 difference per person. Food around UCLA is definitly more expensive than UCSD though I think. Gas around UCLA was a rip when I gas up around there, so probably makes like a ~$400+ difference a month total so like ~$5k a year.

Studios at UCLA are $1300 and up and they are tiny... my friend's studio runs $1500 and it can barely fit her in my opinion.

Anyways, between UCSD n Pitt, I would probably have chosen UCSD since I am also a Cali resident and the weather in San Diego is gorgeous. Like others have said above, I doubt that going to Pitt bc of their surgery would give you any advantage; if it did it would be very minimal. In addition, if your goal is to end up in CA, I would definitely choose UCSD. Between the winner of these two you can do a comparison with UCLA when you get off their WL. Good luck with your decision and they are all awesome no matter where you end up.

 

[usermike8500]

I would pick UCSD hands down. I went here for undergrad and absolutely loved it. I would've sold my soul to go here for medical school but didn't even get an interview here.

 

[bobdogsam43]

It's ultimately up to you to figure out what it is that you like and don't like about each school and how much you are willing to pay for what these schools offer. I am assuming that you are a CA resident since you are holding an acceptance to UCSD. Assuming you haven't been offered merit scholarships as well. I would not worry about UCLA for now, because that's a hypothetical.. I'd focus on Pitt vs UCSD, make your choice, and then if UCLA comes through, pick between your initial choice and UCLA. Just my 2 cents. Anyway..

So in the financial calculus, what does Pitt have that UCSD doesn't have that would be worth the extra costs of attending? This can range from the subjective gut feeling to something more concrete such as a research thesis requirement or some curricular aspect. I don't think Pitt's strong surgery program will be a significant +/- in the long run or even the short run. It's not like UCSD or UCLA don't have surgery programs either.

Personally, you sound like you want to go to UCSD.

agreed.....these types of comparisons should be for accepted schools only....theres just no telling what will happen with waitlisted schools

 

[nevercold]

If you got into Pitt, UCLA, and UCSD, you don't need 5 weeks to study for the boards. You definitely don't need 8-10 weeks. You need 2-3 weeks. Four weeks if you're feeling crazy.

 

[SteroidsAreOK]

Nice to see people finally considering UCSD over UCLA. I know I did plenty of recruiting during second look weekend!

Hey Silverlining, remember how I said I was just a lurker? Well here's a good reason to finally post!

If you like going to class, then pick UCSD (there's plenty of it).

If you hate going to class, then pick UCSD (only about 6 hours of mandatory class per week).

Student housing at UCLA: $1000/month for a 2 bdrm.
Student housing at UCSD: $700/month for a 2 bdrm.
Both are new and both are small, but one's cheaper.

UCSD is also 2 minutes from the beach

 

[silverlining1]

Nice to see people finally considering UCSD over UCLA. I know I did plenty of recruiting during second look weekend!

Hey Silverlining, remember how I said I was just a lurker? Well here's a good reason to finally post!

If you like going to class, then pick UCSD (there's plenty of it).

If you hate going to class, then pick UCSD (only about 6 hours of mandatory class per week).

Student housing at UCLA: $1000/month for a 2 bdrm.
Student housing at UCSD: $700/month for a 2 bdrm.
Both are new and both are small, but one's cheaper.

UCSD is also 2 minutes from the beach

Yupyup.

And your initials are MY, right? Just making sure I know which classmate this is =p

 

[SteroidsAreOK]

Yupyup.

And your initials are MY, right? Just making sure I know which classmate this is =p

Bingo!

 

[shemarty]

My PI (a vascular surgeon) went to UCSD in the 1990's and told me that he loved the anatomy curriculum. Apparently it was run by surgeons. Silverlining, is it still?

I was talking to him today about my options, and I told him that UCLA's anatomy was prosections instead of dissections, and he frowned. If you're a budding surgeon, maybe you really want the dissection experience. Then again, that shouldn't really make or break your decision.

Between UCSD and UCLA, their curricula are sooo different! Figure out if you prefer more lecture time or more study-on-your-own / PBL time.

 

[Brock Samson]

.

 

[bobdogsam43]

i doubt how you learn anatomy in your first year at UCLA has ANY bearing on your ability to pursue a career in surgery. Just look at the 3rd/4th years of med school, no one teaches how to do surgeries......you learn everything else.

It can be an important (and valid) consideration when comparing curricula but I would leave it at that...

 

[SteroidsAreOK]

Between UCSD and UCLA, their curricula are sooo different! Figure out if you prefer more lecture time or more study-on-your-own / PBL time.

The beauty of optional lectures is that "lecture time" can be "study-on-your-own time" if you so wish. Many of my classmates haven't been to lecture in the last 6 months. Others go to every single one. In terms of how you prefer to learn (self-taught at home, or by the lecturers in the classroom), both options are available.

What we don't have too much of is PBL. If you go through PBL threads on the forums, however, you'll find that it is virtually unanimously disliked by students.

 

[shemarty]

i doubt how you learn anatomy in your first year at UCLA has ANY bearing on your ability to pursue a career in surgery. Just look at the 3rd/4th years of med school, no one teaches how to do surgeries......you learn everything else.

It can be an important (and valid) consideration when comparing curricula but I would leave it at that...

Oh, I know, but gross anatomy dissection is something of a rite of passage that I've looked forward to for awhile. I would be quite bummed to not be given the opportunity to do it at UCLA.

Yea, I know you can prepare the cadavers the summer after your 1st year, but still, its not the same.

Again, it shouldn't influence your decision too heavily, but its just something I'm personally considering as I weigh my own options.

 

[Dulcina]

wow, thanks everyone for all the responses! it's so helpful to hear people say that i dont need to pick a med school based on the strength of departments.

As for finances, I intentionally omitted that I would be getting 40k/yr at Pitt (I'm trying not to make that a factor...don't knwo why. I shoudl take cost of living out as well).

I'm strongly leaning towards UCSD just because... it's sunny. But then I feel so dumb basing so much of my decision on weather. What to do...

 

[veaselhaufen]

Everything has changed. You are obligated to go to pitt. Medical students never go outside and enjoy nice weather anyway

 

[pntgrd]

UCLA's apartments range from $2200 and up for 2 bedrooms from what my friends told me and UCSD you can get a 2 bdrm for $1500 so like ~$350 difference per person. Food around UCLA is definitly more expensive than UCSD though I think. Gas around UCLA was a rip when I gas up around there, so probably makes like a ~$400+ difference a month total so like ~$5k a year.

Studios at UCLA are $1300 and up and they are tiny... my friend's studio runs $1500 and it can barely fit her in my opinion.

Anyways, between UCSD n Pitt, I would probably have chosen UCSD since I am also a Cali resident and the weather in San Diego is gorgeous. Like others have said above, I doubt that going to Pitt bc of their surgery would give you any advantage; if it did it would be very minimal. In addition, if your goal is to end up in CA, I would definitely choose UCSD. Between the winner of these two you can do a comparison with UCLA when you get off their WL. Good luck with your decision and they are all awesome no matter where you end up.

Your info is way off. UCLA's Weyburn terrace is about 950-1100 per person depending on if you get a 2 bedroom or a studio. Food in LA is no more expensive than SD, but it is much more varied and much better. San Diego averages higher gas prices than LA.
I have not heard of or met any people who get into both and pick UCSD.

 

[pntgrd]

My PI (a vascular surgeon) went to UCSD in the 1990's and told me that he loved the anatomy curriculum. Apparently it was run by surgeons. Silverlining, is it still?

I was talking to him today about my options, and I told him that UCLA's anatomy was prosections instead of dissections, and he frowned. If you're a budding surgeon, maybe you really want the dissection experience. Then again, that shouldn't really make or break your decision.

Between UCSD and UCLA, their curricula are sooo different! Figure out if you prefer more lecture time or more study-on-your-own / PBL time.

Every surgeon I have spoken to about anatomy comments on how dissection is nothing like surgery and is not some kind of surgical training. The tissues of an embalmed cadaver are nothing like a living person. The best anatomy program is one that teaches you a lot of anatomy, and I personally think the time spent on dissection is valuable time that is wasted, which could have been spent actually learning anatomy instead of cleaning out fascia.

 

[pntgrd]

wow, thanks everyone for all the responses! it's so helpful to hear people say that i dont need to pick a med school based on the strength of departments.

As for finances, I intentionally omitted that I would be getting 40k/yr at Pitt (I'm trying not to make that a factor...don't knwo why. I shoudl take cost of living out as well).

I'm strongly leaning towards UCSD just because... it's sunny. But then I feel so dumb basing so much of my decision on weather. What to do...

LA is pretty much the same sunniness as SD.

 

[Anatidae]

Pitt is a great school and I think money is a big deal, but it's a totally different environment and it feels like a completely different culture than UCSD.

It's too bad you couldn't have gone to both second look weekends to see for yourself. But, I think you'd absolutely be happy at UCSD; there's no guarantee that would be the case at Pitt.

 

[jetspeeder]

Your info is way off. UCLA's Weyburn terrace is about 950-1100 per person depending on if you get a 2 bedroom or a studio. Food in LA is no more expensive than SD, but it is much more varied and much better. San Diego averages higher gas prices than LA.
I have not heard of or met any people who get into both and pick UCSD.

I don't think it's way off. You are comparing Weyburn terrace to non-university owned apartments. I think talbo is referring to apartments that are not university owned that are in Westwood in which cases prices do run pretty high. In addition, I have heard that Weyburn terrace is pretty small, so if you do some price adjustments and normalized themto sq footage or living space, it is probably that expensive.

My friend rented a studio near the Wilshire bus stop and it runs $1450, the cheaper ones around Veteran ran $1200. My apartment two years ago ran $2500 for 2 bdrm and they are definitely bigger than Weyburn terrace. However, recently the market sucks and rent has been going down south of Wilshire. However, the hill's rent seems to be pretty much the same as before which is high price for small space. There are cheaper places but they're in culver city, etc and the rent there is a lot cheaper than westwood.

I don't know much about gas prices at SD but gas around ucla is generally more expensive than it's surroundin area. Food probably is similar in pricing but the asian food around UCLA is definitely more expensive than the ones in San Diego.

Good luck with your decision Dulcina, awesome choices you have!

 

[pntgrd]

I don't think it's way off. You are comparing Weyburn terrace to non-university owned apartments. I think talbo is referring to apartments that are not university owned that are in Westwood in which cases prices do run pretty high. In addition, I have heard that Weyburn terrace is pretty small, so if you do some price adjustments and normalized themto sq footage or living space, it is probably that expensive.

My friend rented a studio near the Wilshire bus stop and it runs $1450, the cheaper ones around Veteran ran $1200. My apartment two years ago ran $2500 for 2 bdrm and they are definitely bigger than Weyburn terrace. However, recently the market sucks and rent has been going down south of Wilshire. However, the hill's rent seems to be pretty much the same as before which is high price for small space. There are cheaper places but they're in culver city, etc and the rent there is a lot cheaper than westwood.

I don't know much about gas prices at SD but gas around ucla is generally more expensive than it's surroundin area. Food probably is similar in pricing but the asian food around UCLA is definitely more expensive than the ones in San Diego.

Good luck with your decision Dulcina, awesome choices you have!

You're right, Westwood is very expensive. But Weyburn is subsidized to be cheaper than it's market value and is guaranteed for 2 years. Also, the area is expensive because it is a really desirable place, between the beach, bel air, beverly hills...
I was talking about LA's overall food scene, which beats SD by a lot.

 

[talbo]

I was referring to non-university owned apartments since my friends who go there don't live in graduate housing and $2200/2 = $1100 which is what was mentioned as the cost of Weyburn, but I assume Weyburn would included utilities etc and hence be a better deal?

 

[talbo]

You're right, Westwood is very expensive. But Weyburn is subsidized to be cheaper than it's market value and is guaranteed for 2 years. Also, the area is expensive because it is a really desirable place, between the beach, bel air, beverly hills...
I was talking about LA's overall food scene, which beats SD by a lot.

Yea, overall LA food is a lot better than SD in my opinion minus asian food like jetspeeder said since SD asian food is cheaper. I think the variety of cuisines and the selection is awesome in LA and ucla has a lot of culture.

wow, thanks everyone for all the responses! it's so helpful to hear people say that i dont need to pick a med school based on the strength of departments.

As for finances, I intentionally omitted that I would be getting 40k/yr at Pitt (I'm trying not to make that a factor...don't knwo why. I shoudl take cost of living out as well).

I'm strongly leaning towards UCSD just because... it's sunny. But then I feel so dumb basing so much of my decision on weather. What to do...

40k/yr is a lot, how are you payin for your education?

 

[silverlining1]

I have not heard of or met any people who get into both and pick UCSD.

I know of some. I do not see any evidence for this idea that "UCLA is better than UCSD and it would be silly to pick UCSD" - it seems to me that the schools are different as opposed to better/worse than each other. I believe UCSD is a younger school and is still building its reputation.

That being said, UCSD is known for providing excellent clinical training (some may call it "hardcore") that impresses residency directors and prepares them well for residency. I have heard many anecdotes from doctors and students in clinical years regarding this. Some people (including my boyfriend at LA) tell me that UCLA's training is not as rigorous. I know UCLA graduates do very well, but just putting this out there in case it was a concern regarding the strength of UCSD's training.

A common reason for choosing UCSD over UCLA is the location. Family/significant others come into play, of course - don't underestimate the importance of support during this stressful time. Don't neglect what makes you happy. Furthermore, the cities of San Diego and Los Angeles are very different, in my opinion... I'm a SoCal girl and know something about both cities. Which one is better is a matter of personal choice and one that you should really think about. For me, I love that UCSD is in a suburban area with many varied sub-cities as well as a downtown in the vicinity. I can go running in the canyon, go clubbing downtown, go play pool or eat tapas in Pacific Beach, grab some Asian groceries in Clairemont, eat at a nice restaurant overlooking the ocean in Del Mar, and more. I know LA has variety and action too, but I think San Diego is more laid-back, less hectic, less smoggy, and... has more trees. I just think San Diego is prettier.

And there's the issue of how much PBL you want and how much flexibility you want in your schedule.

Of course, this is all assuming that UCLA ends up being in the discussion =] Just presenting the info. I'm sorry I don't know anything about Pitt.

And by the way, if we're going to talk about UCSD's on-campus housing, you'll be paying from about $460-620/month. Off-campus will be more like $640-800. I live off-campus and take a free shuttle to/from campus every day - very nice.

 

[pntgrd]

I was referring to non-university owned apartments since my friends who go there don't live in graduate housing and $2200/2 = $1100 which is what was mentioned as the cost of Weyburn, but I assume Weyburn would included utilities etc and hence be a better deal?

Yea, it includes all utilities including internet and cable, as well as having a shuttle bus that goes around UCLA campus. It is also a new complex, built in 2005.

 

[pntgrd]

Yea, overall LA food is a lot better than SD in my opinion minus asian food like jetspeeder said since SD asian food is cheaper. I think the variety of cuisines and the selection is awesome in LA and ucla has a lot of culture.



40k/yr is a lot, how are you payin for your education?

I don't know about cheapness, but no US city beats LA's Asian food.

 

[talbo]

LA definitely has better asian food but that is kind of far from ucla in my opinion.

 

[jetspeeder]

LA definitely has better asian food but that is kind of far from ucla in my opinion.

I agree, convoy is so much closer to UCSD compared to UCLA to San Gabriel or Monterey Park, and the traffic is horrendous.

 

[pntgrd]

I agree, convoy is so much closer to UCSD compared to UCLA to San Gabriel or Monterey Park, and the traffic is horrendous.

That's true for Chinese food, but for Japanese, UCLA is right next to Sawtelle.

 

[Smallville86]

Dear Dulcina,

Congrats on the awesome acceptances! Speaking as a Pitt MS1, I must of course defend Pitt Med's honor, but I shall speak as objectively as possible (because what use are opinions?)

1) On the issue of curriculum- which has not been systematically assessed in this thread- Pitt is comparable and better. There is versatility; so there is enough PBL to whet your appetite without unduly annoying you, and if you like lecture, we have recorded lectures- so you can come to class, or watch them at home at 2x speed (trust me, every med student wishes this for some of their professors). Pitt values clinical skills- you learn patient interviewing and physical exam in the first semester (before any med school), so you can actually do HPIs by December. And Pitt values research of all kinds, with our required scholarly project, and gives you the resources to do that, so you will be well placed for competitive residencies (surgery, anyone?)

2) Pittsburgh is a VERY well-regarded institution nationally- top 10 hospitals, 14th USNWR, 5th NIH, and so on. I was surprised too, because Pittsburgh seems so out of the way, but Pitt's hospital system and med school pretty much single-handedly saved Pittsburgh after the steel industry collapse, and is the second biggest employer in Pennsylvania only after, well, the State of Pennsylvania. And did I mention it was BIG- over a dozen major hospitals and 500 outpatient centers, and no other major medical centers for hundreds of miles. You will see everything from inner-city AIDS to rural Amish with thresher trauma to foreign dignitaries coming in for end-stage cancer treatment, and you won't have to fight other schools for it (unlike Boston, NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.)

3) Pittsburgh is a GREAT city. I was expecting, well, Mordor on my interview, but it was cleaned up in the last 30 years and is honestly so beautiful. I am NOT an outdoors person (read: profile activities) but there are so many parks, hills, and outdoorsy activities; there are awesome FREE museums and shows; and there is fantastic dining. Being Asian myself, I was surprised at the quality of the dining and groceries, but all the universities and tech in Pitt brings in awesome ethnic cuisine and products. Mmm Thai iced tea... Plus, it is SO cheap. As a Pitt student, you can take the bus system for FREE (don't ever need a car), and rent for a 1-bdr is $400-$800 at most- most of my classmates are contemplating buying condos/houses, as the market is so cheap and stable here, unlike most of the rest of the country.

4) Pitt is giving you more $$$. This would be more difficult if you were Cali in-state and Pitt was purely out-of-state, but Pitt is now more affordable than in-state, especially when you consider cost-of-living, and even factoring in frequent trips back home (I assume your family is in California).

I know California is a big draw, and UCSD and UCLA have big-name cities and/or undergrads, but I believe Pitt will be best for you in the long run. Many Cali students have chosen to come out here, so you would not be alone; plus you have the rest of your life to live in Cali, but only the next four years to spend time in another part of the country with the safety net of med school.

 

[TupacalipseT96]

imo, UCLA is the best school and the best location. It's not like the decision many other people have to make that pits reputation against location.

This would be a no brainer for me, UCLA!

 

[RoadRunner17]

In my opinion, $40,000/yr at Pitt is a big deal. What is it that you get at UCSD/UCLA that you won't be getting at Pitt in terms of medical education? At that point, the difference between curricula is somewhat minimal. Would you really pay $40,000/yr more (or whatever the actual difference is) to have 100% lectures instead of whatever Pitt has? You get my point..

It comes down to location and happiness in that location - you don't seem that enthused about Pitt. But I think most will agree that it's one of these cities that aren't great for visits and "tourists" but is very livable with a lot of things to do and eat. I say, go to the second look, and if you absolutely can't stand Pitt, then it's not worth saving the extra money. But I think that nowadays, you can't afford to ignore the opportunity to significantly reduce debt AND still get an A+ medical education.

2c

 

[drizzt3117]

wow, thanks everyone for all the responses! it's so helpful to hear people say that i dont need to pick a med school based on the strength of departments.

As for finances, I intentionally omitted that I would be getting 40k/yr at Pitt (I'm trying not to make that a factor...don't knwo why. I shoudl take cost of living out as well).

I'm strongly leaning towards UCSD just because... it's sunny. But then I feel so dumb basing so much of my decision on weather. What to do...

I have experience with all three schools from last year's cycle. I would go to UCLA of those 3 if you had the choice, then UCSD.

 

[Smallville86]

I am amazed at how you are completely discounting cost of living, not to mention financial aid, in favor of a place that is "sunny." And it is true you should not dwell on the strength of departments, but you should pay attention to the strength of the school. You are not going to med school to lay on the beach, much as you did not choose your undergrad purely on the party scene, and so you should make your decision based on the education and related costs, such as cost of living. I have not heard anything in this thread on how UCLA is better than UCSD from an educational or career point of view, so I feel your decision should be between UCSD and Pitt, both excellent schools.

If you did not have a good first impression of Pitt, that's probably because you interviewed in late fall/winter, where obviously Pitt can't compare to UCSD. I urge you to make a trip out on your own sometime this month/next month before the deadline, stay with a student, and make your own Second Look. This isn't some Masters program, this is your entire future, and you don't want to make such a decision purely based on the level of ambient sunlight and Asian food.

 

[veaselhaufen]

I am amazed at how you are completely discounting cost of living, not to mention financial aid, in favor of a place that is "sunny." And it is true you should not dwell on the strength of departments, but you should pay attention to the strength of the school. You are not going to med school to lay on the beach, much as you did not choose your undergrad purely on the party scene, and so you should make your decision based on the education and related costs, such as cost of living. I have not heard anything in this thread on how UCLA is better than UCSD from an educational or career point of view, so I feel your decision should be between UCSD and Pitt, both excellent schools.

If you did not have a good first impression of Pitt, that's probably because you interviewed in late fall/winter, where obviously Pitt can't compare to UCSD. I urge you to make a trip out on your own sometime this month/next month before the deadline, stay with a student, and make your own Second Look. This isn't some Masters program, this is your entire future, and you don't want to make such a decision purely based on the level of ambient sunlight and Asian food.

Are you a first year student? I think you hosted me on my interview day at pitt. Yah, thanks for that

 

[silverlining1]

In my opinion, $40,000/yr at Pitt is a big deal. What is it that you get at UCSD/UCLA that you won't be getting at Pitt in terms of medical education? At that point, the difference between curricula is somewhat minimal. Would you really pay $40,000/yr more (or whatever the actual difference is) to have 100% lectures instead of whatever Pitt has? You get my point..

Actually, based on what Smallville said, it sounds to me like UCSD and Pitt have a somewhat similar curriculum. We are not 100% lecture either; I also think that UCSD provides a good "flavor" of PBL - definitely present but not overwhelming.

I am amazed at how you are completely discounting cost of living, not to mention financial aid, in favor of a place that is "sunny." And it is true you should not dwell on the strength of departments, but you should pay attention to the strength of the school. You are not going to med school to lay on the beach, much as you did not choose your undergrad purely on the party scene, and so you should make your decision based on the education and related costs, such as cost of living. I have not heard anything in this thread on how UCLA is better than UCSD from an educational or career point of view, so I feel your decision should be between UCSD and Pitt, both excellent schools.

If you did not have a good first impression of Pitt, that's probably because you interviewed in late fall/winter, where obviously Pitt can't compare to UCSD. I urge you to make a trip out on your own sometime this month/next month before the deadline, stay with a student, and make your own Second Look. This isn't some Masters program, this is your entire future, and you don't want to make such a decision purely based on the level of ambient sunlight and Asian food.

Granted, I have never lived on the East Coast, but I have found that (through travelling) I do not like snow, overcast days, or cold weather. I feel that being in a sunny place is rejuvenating - I'm not reluctant to go outside. Sure, I'd probably adapt to being in a place with less awesome weather... really a hard call to make. Dulcina, I wouldn't totally discount the importance of weather and the surrounding city - I mean, you're a person with a life, not just a student - but I do think it'll be a good idea to talk to people who spent most of their life on the West Coast and then moved to the East Coast for school. Perhaps they can give you a better idea of how difficult/easy that adjustment is. If they say it's not such a big deal, perhaps you should follow the money.

Also, I don't know if you have family in either area, but I'm pretty tight with my family and it means a lot to me to be near them. Another thing to consider, perhaps.

 

[Smallville86]

On the issue of PBLs, I'm not gonna lie- every applicant loves the concept, and it is universally slammed by all med students as great in concept but annoying in practice. You'll definitely want to focus more on how the rest of the curriculum is structured- how much lecture is there? Is it optional? Is it recorded (visually and/or audially)- KEY if you sleep in And every med school brags about how you see patients in the first minute you come in the door, etc., but when do you start learning clinical skills like interviewing and physical exam?

Silverlining makes a fair point in that weather and surroundings are important to an extent- I am just arguing that it should not be the most important factor. I have never lived on the West Coast ironically, but if you want to talk to Pitt students who transplanted from Cali, PM me and I can give you their contact info. Obviously, we want you to go to separate places, but in the end we want you to be where you're most successful and happy; mostly because then you'll end up higher up and we can hit you up for favors.

 

[pntgrd]

On the issue of PBLs, I'm not gonna lie- every applicant loves the concept, and it is universally slammed by all med students as great in concept but annoying in practice. You'll definitely want to focus more on how the rest of the curriculum is structured- how much lecture is there? Is it optional? Is it recorded (visually and/or audially)- KEY if you sleep in And every med school brags about how you see patients in the first minute you come in the door, etc., but when do you start learning clinical skills like interviewing and physical exam?

I can answer the questions you pose. At UCLA, pbl isn't universally slammed. It depends on who the tutor is, which changes each block. There are a lot of positives to PBL, such as getting to know faculty and students in smaller settings and learning about applying concepts to clinical cases which is good prep for the boards and wards. The stuff I learn in pbl sticks with me more than lecture. We aren't that heavy in pbl, as it is about 4 hours per week out of 24 total instructional hours. The rest of the curicculum is lecture (10 hrs/wk), anatomy, histopatholgy, and doctoring/clinical skills make up the other 10 hrs.

Lectures are optional and recorded. We start learning clinical skills and interviewing the first week, and begin preceptorships with real patients mid-way through the first year.

 

[XP08]

Anecdotally:

- I have heard very good things about our surgical training. Our students have been impressive on away rotations and in the match. That goes for all our clinical training in general.

- I know 5 weeks for the boards doesn't sound like a lot, but as we said at Second Look, the vast majority of students actually only take 2-3 of those weeks to study and vacation for the rest! UCSD prepares you well with their curriculum; for example, the courses that are taught in winter and spring are emphasized on the boards, so you're studying for the boards while you're in class. I understand it may be attractive to have more weeks, but I have not talked to anyone at UCSD who said they wished they had more time. Honest.

From personal experience, I would have to say the opposite is true at Pitt.
Our average MCATs are among the top in the nation but Step I is just a couple points above the mean. This disappointing fact results from a curriculum very heavy on research. We do well on both Step 2s (required for graduation) but those don't help get a residency.

I came to Pitt 200,000 dollars ago and aside from the brutal winters, what stands out is the poor teaching by research faculty and residents who could barely speak English. However, medical school is not designed to be fun so look for the school that provides the largest (easier) hoops to jump through on and focus on where you want to be in 4 years:

Debt + Residency, with Residency and debt.



Other factors for a getting a nice residency:
-Contact with a wide variety of attendings, not residents. Watching X-residents will not show you what life as a X-doctor will be like. Shadowing experiences with top docs and career advice/exposure. At Pitt, residents will dominate your education. Surgery attendings are very busy and usually leave teaching and rounding to the residents.

-Letters of Recommendation (see above, residents don't write your letters)

-Grades. Wherever you go, the first 2 years are memorization. At Pitt, grades are curved so will depend on how much and how fast you study compared to your classmates. If you can learn on your own, look for a school where lectures are optional (about half the classes at Pitt do not take attendance)
-USMLE Step I. Score will depend on the curriculum you are learning, how much time you are given to study. At Pitt, you get 6 weeks to study,
the curriculum is not geared toward Step I, and the required research project progress reports always interfere with long-term studying.
-MS3 grades again depends on how you perform compared to your classmates but the curve is not strict as in the first two years.

 

[Erina]

From personal experience, I would have to say the opposite is true at Pitt.
Our average MCATs are among the top in the nation but Step I is just a couple points above the mean. This disappointing fact results from a curriculum very heavy on research. We do well on both Step 2s (required for graduation) but those don't help get a residency.

I came to Pitt 200,000 dollars ago and aside from the brutal winters, what stands out is the poor teaching by research faculty and residents who could barely speak English. However, medical school is not designed to be fun so look for the school that provides the largest (easier) hoops to jump through on and focus on where you want to be in 4 years:

Debt + Residency, with Residency and debt.



Other factors for a getting a nice residency:
-Contact with a wide variety of attendings, not residents. Watching X-residents will not show you what life as a X-doctor will be like. Shadowing experiences with top docs and career advice/exposure. At Pitt, residents will dominate your education. Surgery attendings are very busy and usually leave teaching and rounding to the residents.

-Letters of Recommendation (see above, residents don't write your letters)

-Grades. Wherever you go, the first 2 years are memorization. At Pitt, grades are curved so will depend on how much and how fast you study compared to your classmates. If you can learn on your own, look for a school where lectures are optional (about half the classes at Pitt do not take attendance)
-USMLE Step I. Score will depend on the curriculum you are learning, how much time you are given to study. At Pitt, you get 6 weeks to study,
the curriculum is not geared toward Step I, and the required research project progress reports always interfere with long-term studying.
-MS3 grades again depends on how you perform compared to your classmates but the curve is not strict as in the first two years.

Although I have yet to start 3rd year, I've done some clinical things in the hospitals, with residents teaching me how to do physicals and whatnot. I've had no problem with the quality of any of the residents or doctors that I've worked with. And our lecturers are mostly awesome, in my opinion.

Also, we were given the entire month of april off the study for boards (4 weeks or so) plus the majority of each day in march (we only had small group case studies sessions from 8-10am). Plenty of time to study for step 1.