PLastic Surgery after OMFS

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xXCOwHoRnXx

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The US board of plastic surgery offers a pathway for OMFS into the plastic surgery accreditation which requires 2 years of general surgery followed by a plastics residency. DOes anyone know of someone who has gone this route??? any thoughts/opinions on this??
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xXCOwHoRnXx said:
The US board of plastic surgery offers a pathway for OMFS into the plastic surgery accreditation which requires 2 years of general surgery followed by a plastics residency. DOes anyone know of someone who has gone this route??? any thoughts/opinions on this??
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there are a few here and there, like posnick and schendel (stanford craniofacial dude). not for everyone though. for example, i would shoot myself if i had to do another year of gen surg
 
scalpel2008 said:
there are a few here and there, like posnick and schendel (stanford craniofacial dude). not for everyone though. for example, i would shoot myself if i had to do another year of gen surg
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Ditto that.

Jason Potter
Eduardo Rodriguez
Jason Miller
P? Wang in San Antonio
Ronald Hollins
 
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scalpel2008 said:
there are a few here and there, like posnick and schendel (stanford craniofacial dude). not for everyone though. for example, i would shoot myself if i had to do another year of gen surg
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But these two do procedures related to oms...Is there anyone who goes into plastics and doesn't work primarily with the head, in general? Also, is posnick's fellowship open to plastics who want to study craniofacial surgery?
 
BioABC said:
But these two do procedures related to oms...Is there anyone who goes into plastics and doesn't work primarily with the head, in general? Also, is posnick's fellowship open to plastics who want to study craniofacial surgery?
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there probably are. and then you have those that do a full body cosmetic fellowship and only do boobs and tummy tucks. in my opinion, what a waste of 4 years of dental school, 6 years of OMS, gain all that expertise with the head and neck and not provide that service. anyhow, posnick's fellowship is open to OMS or plastics i think (although he mostly takes an OMS to be his orthognathic b!tch) and from speaking to a fellow of his, it's primarily an orthognathic fellowship with some other craniofacial stuff (clefts, distraction, some craniosynostosis, etc). seems like you do a decent number of cases
 
scalpel2008 said:
there are a few here and there, like posnick and schendel (stanford craniofacial dude). not for everyone though. for example, i would shoot myself if i had to do another year of gen surg
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Interesting enough the plastics program at my institution is transitioning to a 1-4 (gen surg/plastics) format in the next two years. But I agree I would blow my brains out before doing that and not just take out my mandible and maxilla.
 
Thanks, Scapel! I was wondering mainly because my surgeon did his fellowship there, and I was interested in knowing since the fellowship my surgeon started is oms only.
 
Extraction said:
Interesting enough the plastics program at my institution is transitioning to a 1-4 (gen surg/plastics) format in the next two years. But I agree I would blow my brains out before doing that and not just take out my mandible and maxilla.
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You want more experience in craniofacial, then do a craniofacial fellowship after oms.

You don't have to switch specialties in order to learn new surgical techniques. ...even if you do a full plastics training program after oms, you're going to have to do so many boobs, burns, and hand recons.. (ie. other things in the PRS scope) that the amount of actual extra training you will recieve in H/N cosmetics or craniofacial (# of cases logged) won't be that great to be honest.
I really feel that if you choose to do oms then you shouldn't start doing boob work full time when you finish. If that's what you're interested in then choose a different specialty from the begining.
Stick to the H/N. :thumbup:

Again.. if you want to be MORE qualified to do craniofacial and H/N cosmetics than a plastic surgeon, then do a H/N cosmetic fellowship, or a craniofacial fellowship, or H/N microvascular recon fellowship after your oms training. You will get more experience in that area and do more cases than they do.

Don't be a traitor to your specialty. :)
 
I am really considering this plastic surgery option after residency. Please correct me if I am wrong. At least in the northeast, the OMFS guys can't do jack/ or don't want to. Even the so called "craniofacial" surgeon can't get his hands on primary clefts or any craniosynostosis stuff. In general, do you guys think that if you were dual certified in plastics/OMFS it would be easier to get these patients? and convince the hospital to let you do these cases? Or will you just end up doing boobs? and staying away from the H/N area...
 
ObeG said:
I am really considering this plastic surgery option after residency. Please correct me if I am wrong. At least in the northeast, the OMFS guys can't do jack/ or don't want to. Even the so called "craniofacial" surgeon can't get his hands on primary clefts or any craniosynostosis stuff. In general, do you guys think that if you were dual certified in plastics/OMFS it would be easier to get these patients? and convince the hospital to let you do these cases? Or will you just end up doing boobs? and staying away from the H/N area...
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I think it is more of the case that the omfs guys don't want to "do jack".. I'm assuming that you mean that they just do 3rd molars. Well.. to be honest, its because it pays more! that's why.

I think that if you want to do primary clefts and craniofacial then if you are a dual degree omfs with a craniofacial fellowship, you should be way more qualified (ie.. way more number of cases and experience) than someone who is fresh out of a PRS residency. You shouldn't have any problems getting hospital privledges for any of those procedures. Don't sweat it.

If you want to do plastics.. then do plastics.. if you want to do Omfs and have an interest in craniofacial.. then do omfs and a fellowship.


(plastics still have to do a fellowship too if they want to be qualified to do craniofacial) :thumbup:

Basically... You really just have to ask yourself what your goal is at the end of the day.
 
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J Potter here at OHSU is both OMFS and PRS(both at UTSW). He does a fair amount of facial procedures and also body cosmetics. He is a stud!
 
Does anyone know which plastics programs are "open" to let OMFS into their residencies? And what the application process is?
 
III. For prospective candidates with an M.D. degree obtained in the United States or Canada combined with a Dental Degree (D.M.D. or D.D.S.).

Satisfactory completion of a residency program in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery approved by the American Dental Association (ADA) is an alternate pathway for prerequisite training prior to plastic surgery residency.

The satisfactory completion of this training must be verified in writing by the Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery program director. This program may include the integration of a medical school component resulting in a Doctor of Medicine (M.D.) degree or the Medical Degree may be obtained before or after residency training in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery.

This combined training must also include a minimum of two years of only clinical general surgery training with progressive responsibility under the direction of the general surgery program director after obtaining the M.D. degree. These 24 months may be devoted only to those rotations in the 12 essential content areas of general surgery as listed on the previous page. The general surgery program director must verify, in writing, the completion of two years of clinical general surgery training, the levels of responsibility held, inclusive dates and specific month-by-month content of rotations and evidence of current admissibility to the American Board of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Board's examination process must be provided. Rotations in general surgery during medical school, prior to the M.D. degree, will not be considered as fulfilling any part of the two-year minimum requirement. If the general surgery training is completed at an institution other than the sponsoring institution of the Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery residency, then this training must be completed consecutively with both years spent in the same general surgery program which has been approved by the Residency Review Committee (RRC) for Surgery and is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) in the United States.

this is from the link above and it outlines what u need to have done BEFORE u can apply to a plastic surgery program. The minimum amount of years during the plastics program is 2yrs. After this then u can APPLY to be accredited by the US board of plastics.

The Fact that the board's website even has this much info on OMFS applicant tracks is interesting. The total amount of training to get here is 6 + 1.4 (considering u need 1.4 more years of gen surg) + 2 or 3 = about 10 years after dental school or when u start your omfs training.

considering that much training, u really need to be sure. Its also not garunteed since you have to first apply to get those extra gen surg years and then u have to apply to get into the competitive plastic surgery only programs. Probably need a high USMLE 1 score...

If i'm wrong on any of this info please feel free to anally probe
 
:( If you receive training in OMFS, then why would you want to go into plastics? All that it accumulates to is that you, for whatever reason, didn't go the proper plastics route from the get go, and therefore, took someone's spot who actually wants to practice omfs. I am sorry if I seem out of line, but there is no reason I can think of why someone who is trained in omfs needs to go into plastics, unless if they want to switch career paths.
 
Yes, BioABC, it may seem at first glance the OMFSer should have gone plastics from the get-go;
HOWEVER, it could simply be the approach that the applicant wanted to take for a career in craniofacial surgery. The applicant may see an importance in proper dental occlusion, knowing common syndromic dental/skeletal abnormalities, having orthognathic surgery as an aid in one's toolbelt for treatment, and understanding TMD. This might provide the foundation one wants to move into a Craniofacial fellowship which just so happens to accept the likes of omfs, ent, and plastics applicants. My hat is off to anyone that wants to pursue such a road and feels confident in the quality&quantity of procedures performed.
 
I may need a better understanding of what you feel a 1) plastic surgeon, 2) omf surgeon, 3) ent surgeon, and 4) craniofacial surgeon provides for the health care community.
 
BioABC said:
:( If you receive training in OMFS, then why would you want to go into plastics? All that it accumulates to is that you, for whatever reason, didn't go the proper plastics route from the get go, and therefore, took someone's spot who actually wants to practice omfs. I am sorry if I seem out of line, but there is no reason I can think of why someone who is trained in omfs needs to go into plastics, unless if they want to switch career paths.
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Is the op actually wanting to go into full body plastics? What would be so wrong with an OMFS pursuing a craniofacial fellowship to further their skills in aesthetics if that training wasn't included? What about cleft palet repair or repair of synostosis related deformities? Isn't that part of some fellowship programs? I've only seen a few cases but that stuff is pretty neat and they should pursue it if it keeps them interested...

I do agree it would be odd for someone to do all the dental training, omfs, then do full body plastics...just my thoughts though.
 
wizziefiend said:
Is the op actually wanting to go into full body plastics? What would be so wrong with an OMFS pursuing a craniofacial fellowship to further their skills in aesthetics if that training wasn't included? What about cleft palet repair or repair of synostosis related deformities? Isn't that part of some fellowship programs? I've only seen a few cases but that stuff is pretty neat and they should pursue it if it keeps them interested...

I do agree it would be odd for someone to do all the dental training, omfs, then do full body plastics...just my thoughts though.
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you don't do a craniofacial fellowship for esthetics/cosmetics. they have separate fellowships for that. but you do clefts, distraction, craniosynostosis, orthognathic, etc. There is an aspect of of rhinoplasty, lip/nose revisions etc in the craniofacial patient, but you certainly don't pursue that to offer cosmetic services in your practice. Different ball game.

I will, however, say that any dental student who wants to apply for OMS with the pre determined intention to a PRS residency afterwards (not a cosmetic fellowship, but the PRS route that has been posted) should never be accepted into an OMS residency. If I was a PD and knew someone at my interview had that intent, i would end the interview on the spot and wish them a "thank you for coming have a good day" in Apu voice :D
 
scalpel2008 said:
you don't do a craniofacial fellowship for esthetics/cosmetics. they have separate fellowships for that. but you do clefts, distraction, craniosynostosis, orthognathic, etc. There is an aspect of of rhinoplasty, lip/nose revisions etc in the craniofacial patient, but you certainly don't pursue that to offer cosmetic services in your practice. Different ball game.

I will, however, say that any dental student who wants to apply for OMS with the pre determined intention to a PRS residency afterwards (not a cosmetic fellowship, but the PRS route that has been posted) should never be accepted into an OMS residency. If I was a PD and knew someone at my interview had that intent, i would end the interview on the spot and wish them a "thank you for coming have a good day" in Apu voice :D
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I can understand if you go into PRS just to do full body stuff. However, if you look at the big craniofacial guys are all dual certified. As well as if someone was interested in microvascular stuff for h/n reconstruction. There aren't that many OMFS places that train you to do that. I can see why going into plastics would be a sore subject however, I see it as a perfect way to get the best training for a possible future in microvascular reconstruction or even craniofacial stuff...
as much as the OMFS'ers want to say they do cases (and believe me they are trying to get them)...all I see is the plastics guys actually getting the cases..at least here in NY.
 
:p I guess since i started this lovely little thread i should poke my head in again. I have an interest in everything pretty much from the neck up. If i were to do a full plastics residency (which was just a thought people keep yer panty's on) then i would not be focusing on boobs and lipos.

Craniofacial deformities, maxillofacial trauma with extensive soft tissue involvement, microvascular...etc. THAT is what interests me.

The fact that people jumped all over this thread with teeth baring (pun intended) to make sure that any OMFS resident BETTER not go beyond dental related fields is hilarious. There are directors of Plastics programs in this country who started their training as dentists (I'll wait until you get back up from falling off your chair...ok), i would love to see yall tell them they took an "improper route" to where they are today.;)
 
CranioFacial said:
Yes, BioABC, it may seem at first glance the OMFSer should have gone plastics from the get-go;
HOWEVER, it could simply be the approach that the applicant wanted to take for a career in craniofacial surgery. The applicant may see an importance in proper dental occlusion, knowing common syndromic dental/skeletal abnormalities, having orthognathic surgery as an aid in one's toolbelt for treatment, and understanding TMD. This might provide the foundation one wants to move into a Craniofacial fellowship which just so happens to accept the likes of omfs, ent, and plastics applicants. My hat is off to anyone that wants to pursue such a road and feels confident in the quality&quantity of procedures performed.
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I think you might've misinterpreted what I meant. I don't understand why someone trained in omfs would want to go into a plastics residency. Although I do fully realize there are two different routes to becoming a craniofacial surgeon, I don't see the point in going into a plastic surgery residency, unless if they want to do full body work. However, if they just want to work with craniofacial anomalies, why do the plastcis residency? I wasn't meaning this to say that omfs should not do craniofacial surgery because then I would be a major hypocrite, since my oral surgeon is a craniofacial surgeon(and a very good one at that).
 
# of first year residents who say the following: 100%
xXCOwHoRnXx said:
Craniofacial deformities, maxillofacial trauma with extensive soft tissue involvement, microvascular...etc. THAT is what interests me.
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# of sixth year residents who say the same thing: 1%
 
rrc said:
# of first year residents who say the following: 100%


# of sixth year residents who say the same thing: 1%
Click to expand...


So friggin' true! It's all a pissing contest. The truth of the matter....teeth and titanium are what pays the bills.....no if's, and's, or but's about it
 
CranioFacial said:
Yes, BioABC, it may seem at first glance the OMFSer should have gone plastics from the get-go;
HOWEVER, it could simply be the approach that the applicant wanted to take for a career in craniofacial surgery. The applicant may see an importance in proper dental occlusion, knowing common syndromic dental/skeletal abnormalities, having orthognathic surgery as an aid in one's toolbelt for treatment, and understanding TMD. This might provide the foundation one wants to move into a Craniofacial fellowship which just so happens to accept the likes of omfs, ent, and plastics applicants. My hat is off to anyone that wants to pursue such a road and feels confident in the quality&quantity of procedures performed.
Click to expand...


You don't NEED to do plastics to do craniofacial..

What you NEED is Craniofacial fellowship training.. which you can get after OMFS.

You can enter craniofacial fellowship training after either plastics or omfs, either way you need the fellowship.
:rolleyes:
 
ObeG said:
I can understand if you go into PRS just to do full body stuff. However, if you look at the big craniofacial guys are all dual certified. As well as if someone was interested in microvascular stuff for h/n reconstruction. There aren't that many OMFS places that train you to do that. I can see why going into plastics would be a sore subject however, I see it as a perfect way to get the best training for a possible future in microvascular reconstruction or even craniofacial stuff...
as much as the OMFS'ers want to say they do cases (and believe me they are trying to get them)...all I see is the plastics guys actually getting the cases..at least here in NY.
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Again.. there aren't many plastics programs that train you to be competent in H/N microvascular or craniofacial either...

If you want to subspecilise in one of these areas... then do a fellowship.

You can do one of these fellowships through plastics OR omfs.


Maybe you should check out some of these individuals and programs:

http://www.dental.pitt.edu/patients/cran.php

http://www.iusd.iupui.edu/depts/oshd/osr/Faculty_Listing/papadopoulos.htm

http://www.umm.edu/doctors/john_f_caccamese,%20jr..html

http://www.dent.umich.edu/depts/omshd/training/fellowship.php

http://www.facethechallenge.org/bios.php?page=randy

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/dentistry/faculty/fantuzzo.cfm

http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/departments/oral_maxillofacial/about_us/staff.html#gary

http://www.rch.org.au/plastic/staff.cfm?doc_id=7231

http://www.rch.org.au/plastic/staff.cfm?doc_id=4912

http://www.rch.org.au/plastic/staff.cfm?doc_id=4923

http://www.omfs.ucsf.edu/people/index.cfm/FullTime-M_Anthony_Pogrel_1.htm

http://www.omfs.ucsf.edu/people/index.cfm/ffac-Brian_L_Schmidt_8.htm

http://alumniandfriends.dal.ca/masterminds/mm_precious.php

http://www.hsdm.harvard.edu/faculty/faculty-kaban.html
 
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