Play nice; deaf, mute, and blind...

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
CodeBlu

CodeBlu

Dream Weaver
Lifetime Donor
Verified Member
10+ Year Member
Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
11,020
Reaction score
169
I'm about to unload a wall of text for those that have yet to experience the play stupid rule about working in the healthcare field. TL;DR at the bottom.

A while back now, I was working in the ED, doing my charting, sharing a chuckle with some colleagues and attendings/PAs/NPs etc. This happened to be a night shift, and it was still relatively early in the evening.

I'm going to be vague about some parts of the interaction that is causing me to write this out... so bear with me...

The charge nurse that evening is a younger nurse (<2 years out of nursing school), that does not have very much experience. She isn't really all that bad, sometimes she's very nice... but she thirsts for power and she got a taste with this charge nurse position.

The physician I was scribing for that evening went to consult on a patient for one of the PAs who was at the end of his shift, he said I could stay back and catch up on all of our charts/results, since the PA would be making the encounter note.

Well, turns out the PA didn't make a note, and the physician asked me to make the note. I usually finish the history portion of the note in the room when the doctor is examining the patient. Since I was not present in the room, I had to ask the doctor the questions he asked the patient, so that I could DO MY JOB. He answered every question I asked him and gave me his physical exam findings with no problems.

The charge nurse was lurking, and she laid in on me and said "CodeBlu, you're not a doctor, stop acting like you are. You need to back it up and stop being so unprofessional pretending like you know what is going on in here."

I'm floored... I get defensive at this point and say "O RLY?" She's furious that I'm not rolling over and taking the abuse. My attending was speechless at that point. She then goes on to say "I've received multiple complaints about you from everyone in the department..." (Not true, or so I've been assured by multiple people)

Anyways, I tell her off in a tactful way and basically say "I need to do my job, since that's what I'm here for." She starts in on me again in front of a room full of people about how it's her responsibility to run the department and bla bla bla.

Anyways, so I was concerned that she was going to try and get me fired (which she did, I later found out). I wrote an email to the head of the department outlining the situation, and my attending also corroborated my story. The department head was very nice to me and told me I had nothing to worry about and that my job was secure.

Only later did I find out that some nurses find particular pleasure in ruining pre-med/medical student/residents professional careers and lives. Some nurses have stickers on their badges and I was told that it signified how many residents/medical students they've gotten reprimanded/fired etc.

I'm very fortunate that the department head likes me and that my attending that evening was super cool. The hospital can be like Mean Girls on steroids, and the high school cafeteria scene doesn't change... the people are just wearing different colored scrubs now.

TL;DR - Play dumb when you have to, and bow your head and say yes sir/maam. Know when to blow, and make friends with people in positions of power. Medicine turns out to be about 10% science and 90% politics, or so it seems to me as an entering medical student.

87844-bigthumbnail.jpg
Members don't see this ad.
 
You were premed and you had "colleagues"?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
CodeBlu said:
Only later did I find out that some nurses find particular pleasure in ruining pre-med/medical student/residents professional careers and lives. Some nurses have stickers on their badges and I was told that it signified how many residents/medical students they've gotten reprimanded/fired etc.
Click to expand...

These old bags must be really bored to make that one up. Most nurses I've met have been pleasant but a few that I've met act just like the ones you're describing (Like they've been divorced one too many times).

Was the charge nurse visually appealing? I'm picturing a young lady who is pushing the 250 pound mark.


ronaldo23 said:
e71ile.jpg
Click to expand...

It's really not that bad of a read.
 
iceman132 said:
These old bags must be really bored to make that one up. Most nurses I've met have been pleasant but a few that I've met act just like the ones you're describing (Like they've been divorced one too many times).

Was the charge nurse visually appealing? I'm picturing a young lady who is pushing the 250 pound mark.

It's really not that bad of a read.
Click to expand...

She's not HEINOUS or anything. But she's not someone I'd be interested in. She is chubby, not obese or anything. She tries to tell some of the younger doctors what they should order for a patient... that irritates them to no end obviously. She wants to play doctor, and she generally dislikes pre-meds/new medical students/new doctors in general. Might be a jealousy complex. Who really knows.
 
Pretty good read. Ill keep this in mind.

Sent from my VM670 using SDN Mobile
 
CodeBlu said:
She's not HEINOUS or anything. But she's not someone I'd be interested in. She is chubby, not obese or anything. She tries to tell some of the younger doctors what they should order for a patient... that irritates them to no end obviously. She wants to play doctor, and she generally dislikes pre-meds/new medical students/new doctors in general. Might be a jealousy complex. Who really knows.
Click to expand...

I imagine that this is not uncommon.

Probably a jealousy complex, and she probably lacks an appreciation for the schooling training of doctors.
 
Double Trouble said:
I imagine that this is not uncommon.

Probably a jealousy complex, and she probably lacks an appreciation for the schooling training of doctors.
Click to expand...

She has an associates in nursing from a community college (nothing wrong with that), and been practicing nursing for less than 14 months or something like that...

So yes, it is uncommon for a young nurse to act this way. Most older nurses eat their young when they are out of line. But on the night shift, all the nurses are new, and don't really get what's going down.
 
This goes for about any job that you interact with people really. I'm surprised the nurse verbally attacked you like that unprovoked.
 
Good read. Have to watch out for politics like that in not just medicine, but practically every career. It's terrible and annoying, but I guess it's part of life.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
CodeBlu said:
TL;DR - Play dumb when you have to, and bow your head and say yes sir/maam. Know when to blow, and make friends with people in positions of power. Medicine turns out to be about 10% science and 90% politics, or so it seems to me as an entering medical student.
Click to expand...

:wow:
 
If I were in your position I would have done the same thing. I have read some horror stories about residents talking back and such..but as a scribe? I would totally rip into that nurse and make her feel like an idiot. She has no reason to talk to you like that. She ain't yo boss
 
Many thanks, this is good to know. The nurses I volunteer with (Not in an ED) are mostly middle-aged, and all seem comfortable in their various positions and roles. Is this a department-specific thing, or just random depending on the nurses personalities?
 
CodeBlu said:
She has an associates in nursing from a community college (nothing wrong with that), and been practicing nursing for less than 14 months or something like that...

So yes, it is uncommon for a young nurse to act this way. Most older nurses eat their young when they are out of line. But on the night shift, all the nurses are new, and don't really get what's going down.
Click to expand...
There wasn't another nurse on staff with a BSN or MSN at least? Good god.
 
Sorry to hear about the bad experience. Unfortunately, I think many people (myself included) go through what you've described and it doesn't seem like it gets any better until you're an attending. I think you handled the situation as well as you could have; I've experienced many instances in which similar events have far worse outcomes. Going forward I think what you have to do is just not let events like this take away from the satisfaction you get from your job and your future career. For whatever reason, there will always be people around you trying to make your life suck. Keep your head high and nose clean--you'll be fine.
 
And nurses who apply for medical school wonder why they have the worst odds of any profession of being admitted.
:smuggrin:

Congrats, CodeBlu on remaining professional with that harpie.
 
I have had to work with old hateful nurses like this before. When they decide to say something smart I just look at them, smile, then turn right back around and continue to do what I was doing. They enjoy when you get upset, don't let them have that pleasure. To be quite honest the doctors usually hate them too.:D
 
You guys are doing it all wrong.

Act like your everyone's best friend and this will not happen. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, right?

If you want to get ahead, play the game. When you are an attending you can do whatever the hell you want.
 
I think I understand the meaning of a white coat ceremony now.

"Congratulations. You are now ready to take it up the a** from everybody around you. AND you have the pleasure of calling them you're colleagues from now on. Chin up. :)"
 
I work as a tech, not a scribe, but I can fully understand your frustration. Particularly since I am well established in my ED (worked here for too long), and many of the physicians provide me with great opportunities which nurses generally don't get. You did a fantastic job dealing with this.
 
LizzyM said:
And nurses who apply for medical school wonder why they have the worst odds of any profession of being admitted.
:smuggrin:

Congrats, CodeBlu on remaining professional with that harpie.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
link2swim06 said:
You guys are doing it all wrong.

Act like your everyone's best friend and this will not happen. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, right?

If you want to get ahead, play the game. When you are an attending you can do whatever the hell you want.
Click to expand...
In this situation, I probably wouldn't have. This charge RN has <2 years experience. She has two years of education. She hasn't been following an attending around.

Codeblu now has almost 4 years of a bachelor's education, knows how the attending works, and realistically may have more on-the-job experience than the charge.

He should not bow down to her or try to get along if she's making his life hell.
 
Bacchus said:
In this situation, I probably wouldn't have. This charge RN has <2 years experience. She has two years of education. She hasn't been following an attending around.

Codeblu now has almost 4 years of a bachelor's education, knows how the attending works, and realistically may have more on-the-job experience than the charge.

He should not bow down to her or try to get along if she's making his life hell.
Click to expand...
a new rn almost certainly has a bachelor's.

i doubt the veracity of codeblu's story anyway
 
Regardless of who's been there longer, isn't a charge nurse MUCH higher on the totem pole than a scribe?
 
RogueUnicorn said:
a new rn almost certainly has a bachelor's.

i doubt the veracity of codeblu's story anyway
Click to expand...

I can validate it, as I work in the same ED (and I have seen the incident reports regarding that night). She does not have bachelor's.

"CodeBlu, you're not a doctor, stop acting like you are. You need to back it up and stop being so unprofessional pretending like you know what is going on in here."

Ok, maybe the bolded isn't exactly how it happened, since we're not cool enough to use aliases in the ED :p

Yes, our ED is exceedingly dramatic, but so is every other ED (and most, if not all, other health professional environments out there). Direct quote from one of the doc's we work with: "Med school is just like high school, and the ED is a rumormill."
 
Last edited:
SisterDisco08 said:
I can validate it, as I work in the same ED (and I have seen the incident reports regarding that night). She does not have bachelor's.
Click to expand...

Is she as big of a jerk as CodeBlu describes?
 
Bacchus said:
In this situation, I probably wouldn't have. This charge RN has <2 years experience. She has two years of education. She hasn't been following an attending around.

Codeblu now has almost 4 years of a bachelor's education, knows how the attending works, and realistically may have more on-the-job experience than the charge.

He should not bow down to her or try to get along if she's making his life hell.
Click to expand...

Thing is, I'm not saying that I'm better than the charge nurse. Not at all. I've got 4 years of education, yes. I work more closely with these attendings and know how they operate, yes.

I was just floored that she did it in front of a room full of other people. You wanna talk professionalism, right? Pull me aside and address your concerns (even if they aren't valid, you still have a right to tell me what you're feeling... now whether I listen to it, especially if it's bogus... that's a different story)

thesauce said:
This won't be your last experience with a bad nurse.
Click to expand...

:laugh: I can see that now... here goes nothing...

RogueUnicorn said:
a new rn almost certainly has a bachelor's.

i doubt the veracity of codeblu's story anyway
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Maybe in a major academic center, but not in a community hospital with a small-ish ED with less than 200 inpatient beds.

Also, doubt away all you want, it's sort of funny.

SJD24 said:
Regardless of who's been there longer, isn't a charge nurse MUCH higher on the totem pole than a scribe?
Click to expand...

Yes, but this is night shift. Completely different story.

The whole point is that she should not have been interacting with me anyway. I'm not her employee. I'm not the attending's employee. I work for a company as a contracted employee to the department. I don't work for any one attending, but multiple attendings.
 
SisterDisco08 said:
I can validate it, as I work in the same ED (and I have seen the incident reports regarding that night). She does not have bachelor's.

"CodeBlu, you're not a doctor, stop acting like you are. You need to back it up and stop being so unprofessional pretending like you know what is going on in here."

Ok, maybe the bolded isn't exactly how it happened :p
Click to expand...

Next time I'm working, I'm going to come in with blue scrubs and look like this...

828164_300.jpg
 
Just out of curiosity.... How did you get to be a scribe? I've volunteered/research/shadowed and all but I've never even heard of this.

What are your basic job duties and do you need to do some sort of program/degree? (Sorry for asking random questions :D)
 
iceman132 said:
Just out of curiosity.... How did you get to be a scribe? I've volunteered/research/shadowed and all but I've never even heard of this.

What are your basic job duties and do you need to do some sort of program/degree? (Sorry for asking random questions :D)
Click to expand...

I will PM you.
 
Bacchus said:
In this situation, I probably wouldn't have. This charge RN has <2 years experience. She has two years of education. She hasn't been following an attending around.

Codeblu now has almost 4 years of a bachelor's education, knows how the attending works, and realistically may have more on-the-job experience than the charge.

He should not bow down to her or try to get along if she's making his life hell.
Click to expand...

I disagree, he is just making it harder for himself...bc he has to defend his job now and the nurses are not going to be very helpful to him now.

Alot of people with ego issues (obviously this nurse) just want to FEEL like they are in control. The solution to these people is incredibly easy...just try to become their best friends, I guarantee you they will divert their ego problems onto another person.

I would hands down rather bring donuts in for the nursing staff than wage some dumb argument that:
1) Wastes my time
2) Stresses me out
3) Burns bridges / puts my job at risk

Yes nurses do give us **** alot of the times...but 95% of the time physicians like to take the hard road in dealing with it.

If you observe most hospitals you will see those med students, residents, and physicians who are out of there way nice to nurses have a MUCH MUCH MUCH easier life than those otherwise.

The only time its not acceptable to appease is when it comes to direct care of a patient, but those are the minority. And again if you are tactful about it...you can educate the nurse without making him/her feel like an idiot.


But to each their own, if you enjoy starting wars, enjoy.
 
LOL. CodeBlu is his own boss and answers to no individual, especially on the nightshift.

I totally agree, this particular nurse has serious issues with basic people skills. However, the number of years or where she went to school has no place in this story because it has nothing to do with anything. Bringing it up wreaks with arrogance. She could be brand new with an associates and she is still the boss of you and anyone else who isn't a nurse or higher. Her name tag says charge nurse, yours says scribe.
 
iceman132 said:
Is she as big of a jerk as CodeBlu describes?
Click to expand...
She filed a complaint about my "professionalism" as well, when the only thing I've ever said to her has been "nice hair". You decide. Maybe she didn't think I was sincere.
 
Last edited:
CodeBlu said:
I'm about to unload a wall of text for those that have yet to experience the play stupid rule about working in the healthcare field. TL;DR at the bottom.

A while back now, I was working in the ED, doing my charting, sharing a chuckle with some colleagues and attendings/PAs/NPs etc. This happened to be a night shift, and it was still relatively early in the evening.

I'm going to be vague about some parts of the interaction that is causing me to write this out... so bear with me...

The charge nurse that evening is a younger nurse (<2 years out of nursing school), that does not have very much experience. She isn't really all that bad, sometimes she's very nice... but she thirsts for power and she got a taste with this charge nurse position.

The physician I was scribing for that evening went to consult on a patient for one of the PAs who was at the end of his shift, he said I could stay back and catch up on all of our charts/results, since the PA would be making the encounter note.

Well, turns out the PA didn't make a note, and the physician asked me to make the note. I usually finish the history portion of the note in the room when the doctor is examining the patient. Since I was not present in the room, I had to ask the doctor the questions he asked the patient, so that I could DO MY JOB. He answered every question I asked him and gave me his physical exam findings with no problems.

The charge nurse was lurking, and she laid in on me and said "CodeBlu, you're not a doctor, stop acting like you are. You need to back it up and stop being so unprofessional pretending like you know what is going on in here."

I'm floored... I get defensive at this point and say "O RLY?" She's furious that I'm not rolling over and taking the abuse. My attending was speechless at that point. She then goes on to say "I've received multiple complaints about you from everyone in the department..." (Not true, or so I've been assured by multiple people)

Anyways, I tell her off in a tactful way and basically say "I need to do my job, since that's what I'm here for." She starts in on me again in front of a room full of people about how it's her responsibility to run the department and bla bla bla.

Anyways, so I was concerned that she was going to try and get me fired (which she did, I later found out). I wrote an email to the head of the department outlining the situation, and my attending also corroborated my story. The department head was very nice to me and told me I had nothing to worry about and that my job was secure.

Only later did I find out that some nurses find particular pleasure in ruining pre-med/medical student/residents professional careers and lives. Some nurses have stickers on their badges and I was told that it signified how many residents/medical students they've gotten reprimanded/fired etc.

I'm very fortunate that the department head likes me and that my attending that evening was super cool. The hospital can be like Mean Girls on steroids, and the high school cafeteria scene doesn't change... the people are just wearing different colored scrubs now.

TL;DR - Play dumb when you have to, and bow your head and say yes sir/maam. Know when to blow, and make friends with people in positions of power. Medicine turns out to be about 10% science and 90% politics, or so it seems to me as an entering medical student.

87844-bigthumbnail.jpg
Click to expand...

lol how pathetic.
 
SJD24 said:
LOL. CodeBlu is his own boss and answers to no individual, especially on the nightshift.

I totally agree, this particular nurse has serious issues with basic people skills. However, the number of years or where she went to school has no place in this story because it has nothing to do with anything. Bringing it up wreaks with arrogance. She could be brand new with an associates and she is still the boss of you and anyone else who isn't a nurse or higher. Her name tag says charge nurse, yours says scribe.
Click to expand...

Actually her name tag does not say charge nurse, and mine does not say scribe.

She is not the boss of me. She is not affiliated with me in any way. I am not her employee. The value of her education is not what I'm questioning. It's her experience and likewise her professionalism.
 
link2swim06 said:
I disagree, he is just making it harder for himself...bc he has to defend his job now and the nurses are not going to be very helpful to him now.

Alot of people with ego issues (obviously this nurse) just want to FEEL like they are in control. The solution to these people is incredibly easy...just try to become their best friends, I guarantee you they will divert their ego problems onto another person.

I would hands down rather bring donuts in for the nursing staff than wage some dumb argument that:
1) Wastes my time
2) Stresses me out
3) Burns bridges / puts my job at risk

Yes nurses do give us **** alot of the times...but 95% of the time physicians like to take the hard road in dealing with it....
Click to expand...

I ABSOLUTELY disagree with this. 95% of the time, the physician will ignore the inappropriate behavior and allow the nurses to walk all over them. They will not confront them on it because it simply isn't worth the time, the effort, or the paperwork. I've seen only one instance where the physician (a resident) has stood up for himself to a nurse who had been completely inappropriate. The department stood behind him and the nurse was no longer allowed to care for patients seen by residents because she was creating a hostile working environment. This is after literally 10 years of inappropriate behavior by this nurse - a doc finally said something to administration.
 
thesauce said:
I ABSOLUTELY disagree with this. 95% of the time, the physician will ignore the inappropriate behavior and allow the nurses to walk all over them. They will not confront them on it because it simply isn't worth the time, the effort, or the paperwork. I've seen only one instance where the physician (a resident) has stood up for himself to a nurse who had been completely inappropriate. The department stood behind him and the nurse was no longer allowed to care for patients seen by residents because she was creating a hostile working environment. This is after literally 10 years of inappropriate behavior by this nurse - a doc finally said something to administration.
Click to expand...

I realize that I have met far fewer doctors than a resident..... But every doctor I've shadowed (Around 5) Are either super chummy with their nurses or minorly talk down to them. (Though I've seen one surgeon yell at his nurses)

You've literally seen nurses act like their superior to the doctors?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

lola7
polite, professional way to say deaf?
Replies
15
Views
991
Purple&Gold8
Purple&Gold8
S
How will School prestige play in residency going forward
Replies
7
Views
1K
Goro
Goro
sasukeuchiha33
Does "MCAT blind" really mean MCAT blind?
Replies
24
Views
4K
Spine MD
S
N
  • Locked
  • Question
Nice
Replies
6
Views
895
ihoop24
I
crossstr
MD School MCAT Blind - Chances?
Replies
10
Views
2K
crossstr
crossstr
Top