Please advise---Dental School versus other alternatives

[up40loves]

Edited

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[periopocket]

PA is a super hot field right now...my fiancé is in dermatology residency (md) and we had her baby sister go into a PA program, to hopefully join her in practice...it's the best bang for your buck for sure and plenty of jobs.

 

[up40loves]

PA is a super hot field right now...my fiancé is in dermatology residency (md) and we had her baby sister go into a PA program, to hopefully join her in practice...it's the best bang for your buck for sure and plenty of jobs.

Periopocket---where do u go to dental school? I am assuming u are a student?

 

[periopocket]

Periopocket---where do u go to dental school? I am assuming u are a student?

Yes, D4 student at SUNY. We gave it a lot of thought before nudging her towards PA. The funny part is she will be earning 6-figures around 8 years before my fiance or I (age wise). Kinda Crazy! So a new way of thinking about things is how fast can I earn 100k+; PA seems like a hell of a way to do so, mind you she was in a 5 year accelerated track out of high school and is now in her final 2 years.

 

[DentalAptitude]

Those are all great options, and depends largely on what you want. The dental degree will give you a high autonomy and freedom in my personal opinion. You're free to associate, own a practice, work in a corporate practice. As a private practice owner, you don't really have a boss (other than the ADA and state boards who sets regulations but not input into day to day operations). As a PA, you are slightly more limited as far as I know when it comes to autonomy, since I believe they can't own a practice without at least employing an MD and can't prescribe some medications. I'm not so familiar with the medical field however. MBA, I feel, has the most freedom but the least autonomy. Many MBA's end up working for large corporations where their skills are needed, but will have a boss unless you are CEO (even then though, the majority shareholders are the ultimate boss as well as the board of directors, not CEO). Other than that, you pretty much are limited to starting your own business or working for a very liberal company if you want to be your own boss. It's "free not autonomous" because you can work in literally hundreds of fields, but its not often that you are your own boss. Often the business you have the power to be a boss of are considered more "risky." Just consider the going rates on a small business loan for medical professionals versus entrepreneurs. That's why many entrepreneurs turn to venture capital, trading equity for capital, whereas dentists have a plethora of options for loans with low rates.

There's much more to consider. I wrestled between similar options and settled on dentistry, since I perceived it to have the highest balance of freedom and autonomy. But I intend on earning my MBA as well, and have a medium to combine passions. At the end of the day - it's about doing what makes you happiest.

edit: *facepalm* as I realized you said "financial perspective." In short, the sky is the limit when it comes to potential income with an MBA. You could be CEO of the next Apple, or CEO of a "small" local business (less than 1 million annual revenue). But it's far more common to make an "average" (which is very solid) salary than it is to be a highly paid CEO with dividends and options. Dentistry, on the other hand, has a more tangible "income cap." There are far more dentist who make a great salary, than those who make little and those who make millions. Not meaning you are limited when I say there's an "income cap," but there are only so many patients you can see in a given area without owning multiple practices or having thousands of square feet. I think dentists are in a stronger average financial position, but it depends on what you seek to do with an MBA.

 

[periopocket]

First, I would like to say that Dentalaptitude has made some excellent points!

The best solution for your bro is to do what he loves/enjoys the most, and the money will follow. However, in my humble opinion, I would think that PA has the best ROI these days and an MBA, could potentially have the worst, as one can most easily attain one, even online!

*I would like to note that "pairing" a reputable MBA with say a chemical engineering degree is a whole different beast.

 

[DentalAptitude]

Agreed @periopocket. PA is fast, relatively inexpensive, and has high entry salaries. It's a great career choice.


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[w4nt2baDDS]

5 year accelerated track out of high school

That's scary for patients

 

[up40loves]

DentalAptitude, you make very excellent points!!! However, keep in mind that you have to spend a lot more money for dental school. It costs 500K for dental school and then would be another 500K to purchase a practice. So at the end, you are looking at 1 million in debt....

Those are all great options, and depends largely on what you want. The dental degree will give you a high autonomy and freedom in my personal opinion. You're free to associate, own a practice, work in a corporate practice. As a private practice owner, you don't really have a boss (other than the ADA and state boards who sets regulations but not input into day to day operations). As a PA, you are slightly more limited as far as I know when it comes to autonomy, since I believe they can't own a practice without at least employing an MD and can't prescribe some medications. I'm not so familiar with the medical field however. MBA, I feel, has the most freedom but the least autonomy. Many MBA's end up working for large corporations where their skills are needed, but will have a boss unless you are CEO (even then though, the majority shareholders are the ultimate boss as well as the board of directors, not CEO). Other than that, you pretty much are limited to starting your own business or working for a very liberal company if you want to be your own boss. It's "free not autonomous" because you can work in literally hundreds of fields, but its not often that you are your own boss. Often the business you have the power to be a boss of are considered more "risky." Just consider the going rates on a small business loan for medical professionals versus entrepreneurs. That's why many entrepreneurs turn to venture capital, trading equity for capital, whereas dentists have a plethora of options for loans with low rates.

There's much more to consider. I wrestled between similar options and settled on dentistry, since I perceived it to have the highest balance of freedom and autonomy. But I intend on earning my MBA as well, and have a medium to combine passions. At the end of the day - it's about doing what makes you happiest.

edit: *facepalm* as I realized you said "financial perspective." In short, the sky is the limit when it comes to potential income with an MBA. You could be CEO of the next Apple, or CEO of a "small" local business (less than 1 million annual revenue). But it's far more common to make an "average" (which is very solid) salary than it is to be a highly paid CEO with dividends and options. Dentistry, on the other hand, has a more tangible "income cap." There are far more dentist who make a great salary, than those who make little and those who make millions. Not meaning you are limited when I say there's an "income cap," but there are only so many patients you can see in a given area without owning multiple practices or having thousands of square feet. I think dentists are in a stronger average financial position, but it depends on what you seek to do with an MBA.

 

[DentalAptitude]

That is definitely a fair point and something everyone should consider. However, when you buy a practice, you can make cash flow projections "after debt service" to project net income of the practice, which is usually after your own salary. Whereas school is just debt acquisition. But definitely a hard thought to bear that you are that far in the negative.


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[schmoob]

That's scary for patients

UoP has a 5 year DDS program for high school students.
DDS at 22-23? Yes please!

http://www.pacific.edu/Admission/Admitted-Students/Pre-Dental-admits/5-year-Pre-Dental-Admit.html

 

[schmoob]

FYI @periopocket,
Sounds like you'll be sitting pretty real soon! A dentist with a derm wife; nice! Both of your hard work will pay off, Congrats.

 

[Reminiscent]

Those are all great options, and depends largely on what you want. The dental degree will give you a high autonomy and freedom in my personal opinion. You're free to associate, own a practice, work in a corporate practice. As a private practice owner, you don't really have a boss (other than the ADA and state boards who sets regulations but not input into day to day operations). As a PA, you are slightly more limited as far as I know when it comes to autonomy, since I believe they can't own a practice without at least employing an MD and can't prescribe some medications. I'm not so familiar with the medical field however. MBA, I feel, has the most freedom but the least autonomy. Many MBA's end up working for large corporations where their skills are needed, but will have a boss unless you are CEO (even then though, the majority shareholders are the ultimate boss as well as the board of directors, not CEO). Other than that, you pretty much are limited to starting your own business or working for a very liberal company if you want to be your own boss. It's "free not autonomous" because you can work in literally hundreds of fields, but its not often that you are your own boss. Often the business you have the power to be a boss of are considered more "risky." Just consider the going rates on a small business loan for medical professionals versus entrepreneurs. That's why many entrepreneurs turn to venture capital, trading equity for capital, whereas dentists have a plethora of options for loans with low rates.

There's much more to consider. I wrestled between similar options and settled on dentistry, since I perceived it to have the highest balance of freedom and autonomy. But I intend on earning my MBA as well, and have a medium to combine passions. At the end of the day - it's about doing what makes you happiest.

edit: *facepalm* as I realized you said "financial perspective." In short, the sky is the limit when it comes to potential income with an MBA. You could be CEO of the next Apple, or CEO of a "small" local business (less than 1 million annual revenue). But it's far more common to make an "average" (which is very solid) salary than it is to be a highly paid CEO with dividends and options. Dentistry, on the other hand, has a more tangible "income cap." There are far more dentist who make a great salary, than those who make little and those who make millions. Not meaning you are limited when I say there's an "income cap," but there are only so many patients you can see in a given area without owning multiple practices or having thousands of square feet. I think dentists are in a stronger average financial position, but it depends on what you seek to do with an MBA.

Great points and I agree with all of them. A future dentist who understands business and finance. Don't be so afraid of loans and think of them as a privilege. Not everyone has the privilege of being able to qualify for loans to advance their career. Think of loans as an investment in yourself and the probability of success is high (assuming you maximize all the opportunities the loan has given you) but not guaranteed. It will all be worth it in the long run for most people.

As for PA, I think it will give you a stable life but the income potential is limited. As a dentist and a business owner, you have a higher income potential. Gotta take on risk if you want a greater reward.

 

[up40loves]

Great points and I agree with all of them. A future dentist who understands business and finance. Don't be so afraid of loans and think of them as a privilege. Not everyone has the privilege of being able to qualify for loans to advance their career. Think of loans as an investment in yourself and the probability of success is high (assuming you maximize all the opportunities the loan has given you) but not guaranteed. It will all be worth it in the long run for most people.

As for PA, I think it will give you a stable life but the income potential is limited. As a dentist and a business owner, you have a higher income potential. Gotta take on risk if you want a greater reward.

It's funny because dental school students are always going to say it's "worth it." When I asked actual practicing dentists who owned their own practice whether they would take out 450K in loans to attend dental school, they all said "no." These are all dentists who are 40+ years old and with years of experience. I think this is why a lot of the private dental schools like BU, NYU and Tufts are easy to get into....The median GPA for these schools is only 3.3-3.3 or so, which means there are a lot of people who have even less than a 3.2-3.3 GPA getting into these schools......My friend had a 3.0 GPA in undergrad and got into Tufts Dental School. He is not exactly the smartest guy out there.....The Orthodontist I shadowed (he attended UConn Dental) basically told me you just need to be able to sign a check to get into BU Dental or Tufts Dental....He told me if you don't get into UConn or a similar type of school, don't even bother with Dental

 

[DentalAptitude]

450k is ridiculous, i agree with you completely. To be honest though, an overwhelming amount of the older generation of dentists (and I hate to make assumptions, but it sounds like it may be the person you shadowed) daydreams of the glory days when dentists put up a sign and had no competition for income. That was the case for dentists of age 40+. Internet marketing with SEO and PPC, corporate practices taking advantage of economies of scale and low margin/ high production, and business knowledge in general didn't exist. Today, dentists face very high competition, have to do markeing (oi!),, and yes school is expensive. This disgruntles the generation Y and above dentists who went into the field to have 3 day work weeks and more salary than they knew what to do with.

Even more ironic, it used to be far easier to get into dental school. The dentist I shadowed in HS went to stony brook on a whim (class of late 80 something) knowing nothing about dentistry and having little career options. Today, their average DAT is a 22 for acceptance or enrollment. Just one school as an example, but dental school is infinitely more competitive today then it was only a few years ago. Don't believe me? Look up the enrollment vs applicant stats last published by the ADA. Its insane. Im not referencing it at this moment, so don't quote me, but if I remember correctly the acerage accepted GPA in just the early 2000s was a 3.2-3.3. For all school. And keep in mind who is saying its easy. Thats an orthodontist. You get there by being one of the top in your class, so of course it sounds easy to them.


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[up40loves]

Hey Dental Aptitude, actually the average GPA for BU, Tufts, NYU dental school is pretty low. It's only 3.3 or so....Look it up....They also keep increasing the class sizes so they have like 200+ people per class. Maybe the state schools have much higher numbers.....

 

[up40loves]

Where is the ADA applicant to accepted ratio? Someone posted it earlier and the ratio of applicants to accepted was around 1.9.....Keep in mind there are a lot of people with like 2.8 GPAs applying to dental school as well....And the 2:1 applicant to accepted ratio accounts for EVERY school, including Stonybrook, UConn etc....The expensive private schools (Tufts, BU, NYU, etc) are much easier to get into......

I found the one from 2010:

http://www.adea.org/publications/li...ntalSchoolApplicantsandEnrollees20102011.aspx

But applicants dropped since then....I am trying to find the recent link someone posted another thread. It was a 1.9 applicant to accepted ratio for the 2015-2016 ratio. There were 4000 less applicants since 2010 actually.....

 

[DentalAptitude]

First, yes I agree 3.3 is a low average. I didn't dispute that. It has become a much higher GPA than what it used to be. Just take a look at this picture:

 

[DentalAptitude]

TL;DR of the picture: consistent upward trend of GPA in both applicants and enrollees. I'm only quoting year 2000 and 2010, but it has consistently increased slowly.

Applicants (total GPA)
2000: 3.2
2010: 3.35

Enrolled (total GPA)
2000: 3.2
2010: 3.53

 

[DentalAptitude]

Examined Applicants to Applicants Ratio (This is how many people applied versus were how many enrolled in that class, given that 38k students applied in 2005 for 56 schools, versus 73k students applied in 2015 for 65 schools.)
2005: 3.6
2015: 6.19

 

[up40loves]

Examined Applicants to Applicants Ratio (This is how many people applied versus were how many enrolled in that class, given that 38k students applied in 2005 for 56 schools, versus 73k students applied in 2015 for 65 schools.)
2005: 3.6
2015: 6.19

You have to go by the ratio of applicants to people enrolled.....It's around 50% or 1.9. Those are the REAL numbers......

You are quoting the ratio of EXAMINED APPLICATIONS to APPLICANTS.....

The number to assess the COMPETITIVENESS of dental school admissions is the RATIO OF APPLICANTS to ENROLLED....It has actually dropped a lot.....It was around 2.4 in 2010 but dropped to 1.9.....Which means dental school has become easier to get into because less people want to enroll

Put it another way, there were 11,800 applicants for 6000 spots so roughly 50% got in......

 

[DentalAptitude]

Yes they are, its just worded weirdly. I promise I'm not on an agenda to prove you/the dentist you shadowed wrong. Either way if i'm wrong, its undoubtedly far more competitive today than it used to be. I still think dentistry is a great career option, and all three of those are great over your average career. I think we can all agree on that


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[up40loves]

Yes they are, its just worded weirdly. I promise I'm not on an agenda to prove you/the dentist you shadowed wrong. Either way if i'm wrong, its undoubtedly far more competitive today than it used to be. I still think dentistry is a great career option, and all three of those are great over your average career. I think we can all agree on that


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It really depends on how talented you are.....I guarantee you the smartest people are not going to dental school.......

 

[DentalAptitude]

I don't think its in relation to smarts. Many of the perceived "smartest" do tend towards research to advance our society. But we choose a career for security, safety, and balance. We all have our reasons, were not on a case to prove something to our parents . Good day!


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[schmoob]

It really depends on how talented you are.....I guarantee you the smartest people are not going to dental school.......

Where do the smartest people go? Medical school?
What are your talents?

 

[DentalAptitude]

This thread is way too far off topic, lets stick to the original concerns and not make sweeping over generalizations about anything. Career choice does not define intelligence.


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[up40loves]

Yes they are, its just worded weirdly. I promise I'm not on an agenda to prove you/the dentist you shadowed wrong. Either way if i'm wrong, its undoubtedly far more competitive today than it used to be. I still think dentistry is a great career option, and all three of those are great over your average career. I think we can all agree on that


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What do you consider an "average" career?

Where do the smartest people go? Medical school?
What are your talents?

The SMARTEST people definitely DO NOT become Dentists.

 

[up40loves]

EDITING POST

 

[schmoob]

What do you consider an "average" career?


The SMARTEST people definitely DO NOT become Dentists. The people who become Dentists are the people with average intelligence who have no other real talents.

The smartest people are usually the people who go to ivy leagues or MIT/CalTech/Stanford, etc....These people usually go into High Tech, Management Consulting, Hedge Funds, Investment Banking, BIGLAW lawyers at large firms, Specialist Physicians (Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, etc), Quantitative Traders, PHD at Harvard/MIT/CalTech in Physics/Engineering/Computer Science/Math, etc......Basically fields where you can innovate and have the potential to become a multi-millionaire.....Most dentists are not that smart. They wouldn't be able to hack it in any of those other fields.

How many people do you know at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, CalTech etc that tell you they are applying to Dental School and their goal in life is to become a Dentist? I guarantee you, almost none. However, a large portion of their class goes on to Harvard/ivy league MBAs, ivy league law schools, top MD schools, top Finance positions (Hedge funds, I-Banking, Management Consulting for Bain Capital/Boston Consulting Group/McKinsey etc), top PHD programs, etc

Why?......Because the type of people who go to Harvard/MIT/Princeton have much better options....The type of people at most dental schools (especially ones like NYU, Tufts, BU) went to state schools or no-name undergrads. They graduated with 3.3 GPAs in Biology and had no real career prospects.......Sorry if this sounds harsh, but don't act like Dental School is so COMPETITIVE to get into and most of the people in Dental School are the cream of the crop in terms of intelligence.....Most people can get into a private dental school like NYU, BU, etc....

Actually, yes career choice does DEFINE intelligence........How many really intelligent, high-IQ dentists do you know? Let's be real here......Having a 3.3 GPA in Biology does not make you some type of academic superstar

You're basing this on the fallacy that GPA defines IQ. Even us lowly Predents/Dental Students/Dentists understand this. You don't need a degree in Rocket Surgery to understand the difference.

I do know of a number of very intelligent people with dental degrees. I've never audited them for their IQ Scores, or their GPA's though.

You, however, have still not told us about YOUR talents. Or your IQ. Show us your Mensa membership, Mr. Smartypants.

It's funny because dental school students are always going to say it's "worth it." When I asked actual practicing dentists who owned their own practice whether they would take out 450K in loans to attend dental school, they all said "no." These are all dentists who are 40+ years old and with years of experience. I think this is why a lot of the private dental schools like BU, NYU and Tufts are easy to get into....The median GPA for BU/Tufts/NYU is only 3.3-3.3 or so, which means there are a lot of people who have even less than a 3.2-3.3 GPA getting into these schools......My friend had a 3.0 GPA in undergrad and got into Tufts Dental School. He is not exactly the smartest guy out there.....The Orthodontist I shadowed (he attended UConn Dental) basically told me you just need to be able to sign a check to get into BU Dental or Tufts Dental....He told me if you don't get into UConn or a similar type of school, don't even bother with Dental

As far as the price of dental school being worth it or not, why are you asking these dentists anything if they aren't on your level of intelligence? You should teach them! Why listen to someone who has no idea what they are talking about?
Oh, and the way you describe your "friends" is priceless.

Beat it, troll.

 

[Phil MahCavities]

What do you consider an "average" career?


The SMARTEST people definitely DO NOT become Dentists. The people who become Dentists are the people with average intelligence who have no other real talents.

The smartest people are usually the people who go to ivy leagues or MIT/CalTech/Stanford, etc....These people usually go into High Tech, Management Consulting, Hedge Funds, Investment Banking, BIGLAW lawyers at large firms, Specialist Physicians (Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, etc), Quantitative Traders, PHD at Harvard/MIT/CalTech in Physics/Engineering/Computer Science/Math, etc......Basically fields where you can innovate and have the potential to become a multi-millionaire.....Most dentists are not that smart. They wouldn't be able to hack it in any of those other fields.

How many people do you know at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, CalTech etc that tell you they are applying to Dental School and their goal in life is to become a Dentist? I guarantee you, almost none. However, a large portion of their class goes on to Harvard/ivy league MBAs, ivy league law schools, top MD schools, top Finance positions (Hedge funds, I-Banking, Management Consulting for Bain Capital/Boston Consulting Group/McKinsey etc), top PHD programs, etc

Why?......Because the type of people who go to Harvard/MIT/Princeton have much better options....The type of people at most dental schools (especially ones like NYU, Tufts, BU) went to state schools or no-name undergrads. They graduated with 3.3 GPAs in Biology and had no real career prospects.......Sorry if this sounds harsh, but don't act like Dental School is so COMPETITIVE to get into and most of the people in Dental School are the cream of the crop in terms of intelligence.....Most people can get into a private dental school like NYU, BU, etc....

Dropping out of med school now so I can pursue my PhD in Physics, Comp Sci, or Math.. Can't wait to see that 7-figure bank account statement. Was going to inherit a multi-location derm practice, but I don't want to be poor.

 

[Phil MahCavities]

Actually, yes career choice does DEFINE intelligence........How many really intelligent, high-IQ dentists do you know? Let's be real here......Having a 3.3 GPA in Biology does not make you some type of academic superstar

How many really intelligent, high-IQ, pre-med students do you know that make sweeping generalizations about the correlation between intelligence and career choice backed by logical fallacies and no data whatsoever? I assume the number goes down dramatically if you add the requirement that these people make these statements in a forum thread that's entire existence would be obviated had the person posting had the ability to perform simple research on Google and previous forum posts.

 

[ncide]

Most dentists are not that smart. They wouldn't be able to hack it in any of those other fields.

I'm laughing. This is blatantly untrue.

I had my choice to go into medical school if I wanted. I was in the honors program at my undergrad where only the top 5% could get in and did well academically throughout those four years. My brother decided to go to medical school and happens to be at one of the best in the world for medicine. I wanted to have a higher level of autonomy and work-life balance, and decided against medicine, among other reasons. An oral surgeon my buddy worked for made 500k a year without ever being on call and having a 32 hour work week. The boss of the dental practice that I worked for donated 10 million dollars to the local dental school in Oregon.

Maybe the smart ones realized their potential in dentistry and pursued a field that best suited them, and because of that, became very successful entrepreneurs and healthcare providers. You telling me they weren't smart?

 

[up40loves]

EDITING POST

 

[ncide]

The owners of these oral surgery clinics where my buddy worked were making several million a year themselves. You can find outliers in any industry and dentistry is no exception. The associates were making $500k.

 

[up40loves]

EDITING POST

 

[ncide]

I'm done feeding this troll.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

EVERYONE knows Dentists are med school (MD) rejects....Stop lying and saying you prefer teeth instead or having "better hours." LOL, there are many specialities in Medicine where you earn A LOT more than dentists and can have a good lifestyle too....The general public respects/admires Physicians....But I guarantee no one really cares about Dentists or thinks they are prestigious....

No one really cares, unless you are a physician who's telling the student thats shadowing you to go to dental school or PA school. Or you are one of the 50% of physicians who wouldn't choose a career in medicine again. Either or

 

[Phil MahCavities]

Depends on what you do with the degree and whether or not you choose to work in Academia.......The top PHDs have the ability to make 7 figures and FAR FAR MORE money than any Physician/Dermatologist......In fact, you can't even compare a Dermatologist's salary to top Hedgefund/Private Equity/Venture Capitalist/Finance salaries....A dermatologist's salary is peanuts in comparison....

I know someone who completed their PHD in Math from Harvard and got a job working on complex quantitative models at Goldman Sachs---he makes over 5 million a year.....I also know another PHD in Physics from MIT who makes millions a year as a quantitative trader on Wall Street.....Another top Math PHDs went on to work at Blackrock and easily makes over a million annually.....So yes, the cream of the crop PHDs do have the ABILITY to make 7 figures easily....Why? They have a UNIQUE skill set that regular investment bankers with a BA in Economics don't have.....They have the mathematical/quantitative knowledge to understand derivatives and create models.....Another person I know with a PHD in Computer Science from Stanford is filthy rich.....Doctors/dentists can't even compare to them

Perhaps some don't choose that route and would rather be a Professor but they do have the ABILITY.....

I hate to break it to you, but you talk about wall street like someone who eavesdropped on a few conversations during their undergrad, but has absolutely no experience whatsoever. You are basically saying the same cliche stuff people outside of the field say. First of all, being a quant is a lowly position with a relatively fixed salary as compared with their power trader counterparts. Second, being a quant is relatively easy. Creating a few VBA simulations based around some market research isn't that difficult if you have even a very lose understanding of the Black-Scholes model. The real money is made by the people who take the risky positions at the risk of losing their job and being black listed from all big firms based on a down year or quarter. Even those people aren't smart, they are just really in tune with the market.

Comparing a physician's salary to top salaries in finance is ridiculous and serves no purpose. That is like saying that everyone who isn't a computer scientist isn't unlocking their full career potential because they could be making top silicon valley executive salaries. Normalized for all factors, being a physician is very lucrative. There are obvious salary ceilings, and it is silly of you to assume that people don't know that already.

You have a very distorted and inaccurate world view. Some of the smartest men that ever lived made "peanuts" in comparison to top finance execs. The same can be said about the happiest people in the world. You sound like someone with a severe complex, and I doubt you are ever going to find what you are looking for in this world with the current attitude that you have. Wherever you may end up in your career, I hope that you mature a little bit on the path towards getting there.

 

[DentalAptitude]

I hate to break it to you, but you talk about wall street like someone who eavesdropped on a few conversations during their undergrad, but has absolutely no experience whatsoever. You are basically saying the same cliche stuff people outside of the field say. First of all, being a quant is a lowly position with a relatively fixed salary as compared with their power trader counterparts. Second, being a quant is relatively easy. Creating a few VBA simulations based around some market research isn't that difficult if you have even a very lose understanding of the Black-Scholes model. The real money is made by the people who take the risky positions at the risk of losing their job and being black listed from all big firms based on a down year or quarter. Even those people aren't smart, they are just really in tune with the market.

Comparing a physician's salary to top salaries in finance is ridiculous and serves no purpose. That is like saying that everyone who isn't a computer scientist isn't unlocking their full career potential because they could be making top silicon valley executive salaries. Normalized for all factors, being a physician is very lucrative. There are obvious salary ceilings, and it is silly of you to assume that people don't know that already.

You have a very distorted and inaccurate world view. Some of the smartest men that ever lived made "peanuts" in comparison to top finance execs. The same can be said about the happiest people in the world. You sound like someone with a severe complex, and I doubt you are ever going to find what you are looking for in this world with the current attitude that you have. Wherever you may end up in your career, I hope that you mature a little bit on the path towards getting there.

 

[personalstatementsbyeric]

Side note: up40loves couldnt get into med school. Look at his past posts and you will see that he was trying to do a masters after college to better himself for med school, and then was looking at osteopathic schools. Not sure if he ever got in based on the fact that he is spending all this time trying to put down a profession he wouldn't be able to get in these days. Fun fact, you aren't your MIT friend or Stanford grad going into finance. You are an SDN troll who has been a member for 7 years. Get real with yourself.

 

[schmoob]

Side note: up40loves couldnt get into med school. Look at his past posts and you will see that he was trying to do a masters after college to better himself for med school, and then was looking at osteopathic schools. Not sure if he ever got in based on the fact that he is spending all this time trying to put down a profession he wouldn't be able to get in these days. Fun fact, you aren't your MIT friend or Stanford grad going into finance. You are an SDN troll who has been a member for 7 years. Get real with yourself.

*9.5 years

 

[VaniLLaKiLLa]

EVERYONE knows Dentists are med school (MD) rejects....

No... Not "EVERYONE" knows that. In fact, you are the first one I've ever seen on SDN or otherwise to make such a blatant and ignorant claim.

....The general public respects/admires Physicians....But I guarantee no one really cares about Dentists or thinks they are prestigious....

Not only is this far from the truth, but it also reveals your probable unrefined personality. You know, the kind patients don't want to see in a health care professional.
Up40loves, please do not pursue a career in healthcare. Your rude demeanor and unrelenting desire for profit are not what the field needs.

 

[tinman831]

Please keep this thread on topic. It's against SDN's terms of service to insult other members, even if their posts are controversial.

 

[Reminiscent]

It's funny because dental school students are always going to say it's "worth it." When I asked actual practicing dentists who owned their own practice whether they would take out 450K in loans to attend dental school, they all said "no." These are all dentists who are 40+ years old and with years of experience. I think this is why a lot of the private dental schools like BU, NYU and Tufts are easy to get into....The median GPA for these schools is only 3.3-3.3 or so, which means there are a lot of people who have even less than a 3.2-3.3 GPA getting into these schools......My friend had a 3.0 GPA in undergrad and got into Tufts Dental School. He is not exactly the smartest guy out there.....The Orthodontist I shadowed (he attended UConn Dental) basically told me you just need to be able to sign a check to get into BU Dental or Tufts Dental....He told me if you don't get into UConn or a similar type of school, don't even bother with Dental

I am a practicing orthodontist. I do agree that not all of my colleagues will agree its worth it but life is all about perspective. If you ask a successful dentist, he will tell you its worth it. If you ask an unsuccessful dentist, he will tell you its not. If you ask a man who took the risk of taking a loan right out of dental school for a practice and his practice flourished, he will tell you its worth it. If you ask a man who did the same and his practice did not flourish as much, he will tell you its not worth it. Ask a man who achieved the impossible and he will tell you to chase after your dreams no matter what. Ask a man who failed to carry out his dreams, and he will discourage you.

But I don't want you to make the assumption that if you take out a educational loan to be a dentist and then take out a practice loan and open up right away, you will be automatically successful. You need to be diligent and work very hard to learn as much as possible. I've seen too many of my old classmates squander the opportunity they have been given by just wanting to get by in dental school or doing what is only required of them. You need to have the self-drive to want to learn not only about dentistry but also the business side. Too many people wait to be told to do something.

 

[Steins;Gate]

I am a practicing orthodontist. I do agree that not all of my colleagues will agree its worth it but life is all about perspective. If you ask a successful dentist, he will tell you its worth it. If you ask an unsuccessful dentist, he will tell you its not. If you ask a man who took the risk of taking a loan right out of dental school for a practice and his practice flourished, he will tell you its worth it. If you ask a man who did the same and his practice did not flourish as much, he will tell you its not worth it. Ask a man who achieved the impossible and he will tell you to chase after your dreams no matter what. Ask a man who failed to carry out his dreams, and he will discourage you.

But I don't want you to make the assumption that if you take out a educational loan to be a dentist and then take out a practice loan and open up right away, you will be automatically successful. You need to be diligent and work very hard to learn as much as possible. I've seen too many of my old classmates squander the opportunity they have been given by just wanting to get by in dental school or doing what is only required of them. You need to have the self-drive to want to learn not only about dentistry but also the business side. Too many people wait to be told to do something.

D2 from Canada here, would you mind if I PM'ed you with some questions?