Please Go to America for Med school

[sga430]

forget about india. if u dont forget about india then forget about getting cardio. forget about getting a nice residency in a nice place. before u decide going to india visit some img residents at harlem hospital or brook dale and also mobile, alabama. if this is ok with you then go ahead. also forget about derm. forget about ophthal etc. i feel it is hard enough to know u want to do medicine let alone what speciality u want.

i got lucky though. i got a good residency. however many r not so lucky.

so weigh the following. being 24 and being in a crappy FP residency or being 26 in a kick ass orthopedic surgery residency. it is a no brainer in my opinion.

in my opinion this post should be a sticky and all other posts about going to india should be deleted.

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[WaZoBia]

forget about india. if u dont forget about india then forget about getting cardio. forget about getting a nice residency in a nice place. before u decide going to india visit some img residents at harlem hospital or brook dale and also mobile, alabama. if this is ok with you then go ahead. also forget about derm. forget about ophthal etc. i feel it is hard enough to know u want to do medicine let alone what speciality u want.

i got lucky though. i got a good residency. however many r not so lucky.

so weigh the following. being 24 and being in a crappy FP residency or being 26 in a kick ass orthopedic surgery residency. it is a no brainer in my opinion.

in my opinion this post should be a sticky and all other posts about going to india should be deleted.

if you want to tell us about your experiences as an IMG then please do but don't go around telling people they won't be able to do what they want just cos they are IMGs. there're plenty of IMGs who've landed a spot in the residency of their choosing.

give us a break pal.

 

[leorl]

sga, you seem to have some kind of agenda on your hands. Please stop posting these sorts of threads. IMGs require encouragement, not discouragement. And let me tell you, on my US electives I have met many very good Indian and UK-Indian IMGs in prestigious programs...all actually, shooting for Cardiology. Do not post unless you have some sort of objective evidence for doing so.

 

[Wes Mantooth]

ISERSONS GETTING INTO A RESIDENCY 6TH EDITION

DERM- % IMG residents = 4
EMED-% IMG res= 4
OPTHO-% = 8
ORTHO-%= 2
ENT-%= 1
PLASTICS =5
RADS= 13%
GEN SURG= 16%
URO=4%

on the other hand...
FP=23 %
PSYCH =41 %
Im= 50ish.

theres your objective data. now its your turn. show me a program that sells degrees (like manipal) with any type of a decent match list. btw, i think the IMGs that isersons refers to are ones born and raised in their country. they had no choice. some of them were bad ass attendings in their country forced to redo entire residency training program again.
i think SGA is referring to IMGs who chose to become IMGs when they left the US to India. not the geniuses born there that work their tails off with a >260 step 1 and 2 and still facing an uphill battle.
maybe hes trying to give encouragement to those who havent made a decision yet about going to the US to avoid it. not the ones already there.

 

[CaliAtenza]

sga, you seem to have some kind of agenda on your hands. Please stop posting these sorts of threads. IMGs require encouragement, not discouragement. And let me tell you, on my US electives I have met many very good Indian and UK-Indian IMGs in prestigious programs...all actually, shooting for Cardiology. Do not post unless you have some sort of objective evidence for doing so.

thank you, finally a voice of reason...and from a mod . sga might have to banned for a bit

 

[CaliAtenza]

ISERSONS GETTING INTO A RESIDENCY 6TH EDITION

DERM- % IMG residents = 4
EMED-% IMG res= 4
OPTHO-% = 8
ORTHO-%= 2
ENT-%= 1
PLASTICS =5
RADS= 13%
GEN SURG= 16%
URO=4%

on the other hand...
FP=23 %
PSYCH =41 %
Im= 50ish.

theres your objective data. now its your turn. show me a program that sells degrees (like manipal) with any type of a decent match list. btw, i think the IMGs that isersons refers to are ones born and raised in their country. they had no choice. some of them were bad ass attendings in their country forced to redo entire residency training program again.
i think SGA is referring to IMGs who chose to become IMGs when they left the US to India. not the geniuses born there that work their tails off with a >260 step 1 and 2 and still facing an uphill battle.
maybe hes trying to give encouragement to those who havent made a decision yet about going to the US to avoid it. not the ones already there.

but he is still painting all of us that decided to leave the US with the same brush..that we are stupid...so that is unfair.

 

[dggopal]

Ya know... when ever I hear about people saying that IMG's are second rate or something its really funny... cuz I mean... Not only do we gotta work our asses off to get through med school in a totally different system and country.. we get discriminated against in India for being American... so we gotta work extra hard to prove ourselves to the Indians... and then we gotta come back home to America and prove ourselves again cuz we are foreign grads... Its evident that IMg's are just as good if not better than any other.... True foreign grads may have a tougher time getting some residencies... but if you really want to you can achieve what ever you want... and its out of line to say that Cardio or dermat are off limits to IMG's... cuz they aren't... We just have to work hard. Thas it!

 

[Wes Mantooth]

Ya know... when ever I hear about people saying that IMG's are second rate or something its really funny... cuz I mean... Not only do we gotta work our asses off to get through med school in a totally different system and country.. we get discriminated against in India for being American... so we gotta work extra hard to prove ourselves to the Indians... and then we gotta come back home to America and prove ourselves again cuz we are foreign grads... Its evident that IMg's are just as good if not better than any other.... True foreign grads may have a tougher time getting some residencies... but if you really want to you can achieve what ever you want... and its out of line to say that Cardio or dermat are off limits to IMG's... cuz they aren't... We just have to work hard. Thas it!

nobody forced you to go there so please dont feel sorry for yourself cuz of you hardships. "its evident that IMGs are just as good if not better than any other..." uhhhh ok. how is it evident? where is your evidence? dont say dumb s**t you cant actually back up. and its not out of line to say that ultra competitive fields are off limits. that was the point of my post that actually used some data you chose to ignore. yes, its not impossible but very tough.
whatever man. the point is to dissuade students thinking about going there for med school. for those of you already there, well goodluck. you'll be facing a serious uphill battle for the rest of your careers. i agree that you should work hard and do your best and all that good stuff but be realistic too. if theres something you truly want, then go for it. but at the end of the day, "working hard" is just NOT good enough in some fields.

 

[CaliAtenza]

ISERSONS GETTING INTO A RESIDENCY 6TH EDITION

DERM- % IMG residents = 4
EMED-% IMG res= 4
OPTHO-% = 8
ORTHO-%= 2
ENT-%= 1
PLASTICS =5
RADS= 13%
GEN SURG= 16%
URO=4%

on the other hand...
FP=23 %
PSYCH =41 %
Im= 50ish.

theres your objective data. now its your turn. show me a program that sells degrees (like manipal) with any type of a decent match list. btw, i think the IMGs that isersons refers to are ones born and raised in their country. they had no choice. some of them were bad ass attendings in their country forced to redo entire residency training program again.
i think SGA is referring to IMGs who chose to become IMGs when they left the US to India. not the geniuses born there that work their tails off with a >260 step 1 and 2 and still facing an uphill battle.
maybe hes trying to give encouragement to those who havent made a decision yet about going to the US to avoid it. not the ones already there.

even with IM...one can progress to other specialties (fellowships et. all). The 16% in Gen. Surgery is interesting though.

 

[sga430]

even with IM...one can progress to other specialties (fellowships et. all). The 16% in Gen. Surgery is interesting though.

yes it is possible. however to get cards or gi u need to top program or a program with those fellowships. it is unlikely and img will get cards or gi. of course if u get double 99s this is possible. however most going into med school r too inexperienced to know what speciality u want. going to india will screw up ur career and ur libido. why not go to med school in the us where u can get almost any speciality. also before going to india please go to harlem ny or mobile alabama. stay in both places for a week. this is the likely location of ur residency. instead of india i recommend poland for med school. at the least ur libido will be intact and this in itself may make the adverse affect on ur carreer worth it. there r many indians in the carribean and east europe med schools. please think things clearily before making the grave error u will regret. both considering carreer and happiness tell one to steer clear of india. i had a good time in india but after visiting poland and america i realize those would have been better for me. DONT GO TO INDIA for med school. trust me. only if u dont have a libido or dont care about ur career go there.

and regarding the 16% in surgery. that is because the us grad demand for surgery is down. and for good reason. surgery residents r underpaid slaves. even then surgery will be tough to get. it is wishful thinking for an img. i know. i was a decent candidate and ended up matching at my 19th choice. and i was lucky as i got a univeristy program in a decent town in psych (the speciality of my choice.) in most cases for imgs this is not true. they get specialities they dont want in crappy places. be lucky to get fp in harlem or mobile alabama. so in essence u will be in a crappy place for 6 plus 3 to 4 years. is this what u want. i doubt it. dont ruin ur life.

 

[sga430]

check this out
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=383374

 

[sga430]

thank you, finally a voice of reason...and from a mod . sga might have to banned for a bit

banned for what? read my posts on the psych thread. i am complimented for being encourgaing. my posts r in this thread r only for those who have not made up their mind yet. and what i say is true. it may not be true for those who r hard working and get double 99s and dont want derm. if i can convince one person to stay in america my posts r valid even if i discourage hundreds who have made the mistake. even if those i discourages i will encourage with an onslaught of help on how to get a residency. i have done this in the psych thread. i have gone to 42 psych interviews and matched. it is of course possible. however many of my img buddies have not matched. i encourage them on a daily basis. and i encourage others to stay in america if they have the chance. my posts r for those in america thinking about going to india for med school. i encourage them to do the best in terms of life and carreer. is this accomplished by going to india? NO. what if ur ethnicity was north korean or somali. would it be wrong to encourage them to stay in america? i think not.

if that one person stays in america and gets ortho because of my post is it worth it. perhaps u should be banned for intolerance and selfishness. my agenda is to help. if what u say is true please answer the following - is it not plausible for someone starting med school not to have made up their mind about their choice of speciality or to change it later. what if one reads one of ur posts. goes to india, falls in love with derm? what would u say? ur encouragement is too late. either realisticly encourage one to steer clear of india before or falsely encourage them later that they can get derm. i feel the former is more prudent. i wish someone told me to stay in america. if i had this info before making up my mind i would be greatful.

i am not here on a popularity contest. if u r discouraged i apologize. i also recommend u do us electives before u graduate as it is easier as a student than a non student. this advice is helpful. what advice do u have that is helpful? have been thru the match? on what basis can u help or provide advice? i have interviewed at 1 out 3 psych residencies in the nation. i have met hundreds of applicants. i know 100x more now than when i was in med school about the match and how to get residency. PM me and i will bombard u with encouragement on how to get a residency. i have advice that is not in issersons nor FA for the match (both excellent books.) but in this thread i will encourage those to stay in america. this is not wrong.

what is ur agenda?

 

[sga430]

sga, you seem to have some kind of agenda on your hands. Please stop posting these sorts of threads. IMGs require encouragement, not discouragement. And let me tell you, on my US electives I have met many very good Indian and UK-Indian IMGs in prestigious programs...all actually, shooting for Cardiology. Do not post unless you have some sort of objective evidence for doing so.

i dont mean to discourage. just want to give those who have yet to decide information i didnt have. i was lucky in that i liked psych. if i liked orth or derm what would i have done? i would rather have valid encouragement to stay in the us rather than have false encouragement that i can get derm as an img. yes there r imgs in prestigious programs. but this is an exception. i have interviewed at 1 out 3 psych programs in the nation so i am in the know. psych is getting more competive. before only about 35% of psych residents were us grads. this has doubled. i am lucky to have matched even if it was #19. it is out of altruism i post. i have no benefit myself of posting here. if u all dont want me in this thread fine. i can leave. but at the peril of those future imgs who want ortho and end up with fp in nome alaska. is this desirable?

 

[CaliAtenza]

yes it is possible. however to get cards or gi u need to top program or a program with those fellowships. it is unlikely and img will get cards or gi. of course if u get double 99s this is possible. however most going into med school r too inexperienced to know what speciality u want. going to india will screw up ur career and ur libido. why not go to med school in the us where u can get almost any speciality. also before going to india please go to harlem ny or mobile alabama. stay in both places for a week. this is the likely location of ur residency. instead of india i recommend poland for med school. at the least ur libido will be intact and this in itself may make the adverse affect on ur carreer worth it. there r many indians in the carribean and east europe med schools. please think things clearily before making the grave error u will regret. both considering carreer and happiness tell one to steer clear of india. i had a good time in india but after visiting poland and america i realize those would have been better for me. DONT GO TO INDIA for med school. trust me. only if u dont have a libido or dont care about ur career go there.

and regarding the 16% in surgery. that is because the us grad demand for surgery is down. and for good reason. surgery residents r underpaid slaves. even then surgery will be tough to get. it is wishful thinking for an img. i know. i was a decent candidate and ended up matching at my 19th choice. and i was lucky as i got a univeristy program in a decent town in psych (the speciality of my choice.) in most cases for imgs this is not true. they get specialities they dont want in crappy places. be lucky to get fp in harlem or mobile alabama. so in essence u will be in a crappy place for 6 plus 3 to 4 years. is this what u want. i doubt it. dont ruin ur life.

look man, im already in india...im in my second year, and im not leaving ok...so just get it through ur head. Second of all, i dont have an agenda...im just a member here and i am trying to give an objective view of my college and what my thought process was. It seems ur agenda is to put down everyone who is already in india or even slightly thinkin about going by presenting a bunch of horror stories and hyping them up. Ok maybe some are true...but there is nothing that cannot be overcome without some elbow greese and some hard work. Connections ALWAYS help too. I just read (on this board) that a few programs in southern california have taken in IMGs in the match for IM...anything is possible man....so dont automatically discourage everyone that is in india already or thinking about going. Look i agree with u...try try try for US schools first, then DO, then Carrib/India/Europe...but it isnt fair to insult/bug the people that made the decision to go to India. Besides, some awsome clinical expierence is to be had in India.... Im sorry for whatever crappy expierence u may have had out there, but please dont push that on us...at least be constructive for those of us that have already made the decision/and or already there....instead of repeating the same whole spiel again. I know u mean good, but its coming out the wrong way.

 

[sga430]

i didnt have a crappy experience. in fact i just went to india to meet up with old buddies. some of the best years of my life were there. and i did match to a university program as well in the speciality of my choice. however if i went to med school in america i would have been done with residency. however i am in no hurry so i am ok with this. most people in my situation would have regretted it more than I. however i am just arming those people who r planning on going there with the facts. my posts were not directed to u (yet the advice further down is for u to encourage u.) my situation worked out as i ultimately wanted to do psychiatry and i passed both my usmles in the first shot and i had the financial means to spend 6 months doing externships and to go to 49 interviews. (this might cost somewhere near 50 grand or more. south beach and beverly hills are not cheap places to get usce.) however in retrospect i still believe i should have gone to med school in america. when i joined there was no sdn forum much less much of an internet. i was clueless when i went. i wish u good luck. i also recommend before u recieve ur degree do the following:

1) do an externships as these r easier to come by as a student

2) join some organizations such as the APA (if u like psych) these u can only join as a student or as a resident

3) perhaps think about doing ur intern year in the us

4) if u like something like derm find a good back up. i am not saying dont apply to derm. hell, i applied to all the harvard psych programs. apply to derm but be realistic. i am not trying to discourage anyone. just have some $ saved up to apply to multiple specialities. i spent 3000$ just to apply to all the psych program.

5)do NOT automatically choose IM or FP as the none of the above choice if u dont know what to do. i recommend psych. try to do what u like.


also it is possible to transfer after II mbbs to the carribean or east europe. there must be some other advice i may be missing out on. however this should give u an edge. if u want to finish in india that is fine. just delay ur degree so ur still officially a student. a student is eligible for things a graduate is not. good luck.

 

[CaliAtenza]

i didnt have a crappy experience. in fact i just went to india to meet up with old buddies. some of the best years of my life were there. and i did match to a university program as well in the speciality of my choice. however if i went to med school in america i would have been done with residency. however i am in no hurry so i am ok with this. most people in my situation would have regretted it more than I. however i am just arming those people who r planning on going there with the facts. my posts were not directed to u (yet the advice further down is for u to encourage u.) my situation worked out as i ultimately wanted to do psychiatry and i passed both my usmles in the first shot and i had the financial means to spend 6 months doing externships and to go to 49 interviews. (this might cost somewhere near 50 grand or more. south beach and beverly hills are not cheap places to get usce.) however in retrospect i still believe i should have gone to med school in america. when i joined there was no sdn forum much less much of an internet. i was clueless when i went. i wish u good luck. i also recommend before u recieve ur degree do the following:

1) do an externships as these r easier to come by as a student

2) join some organizations such as the APA (if u like psych) these u can only join as a student or as a resident

3) perhaps think about doing ur intern year in the us

4) if u like something like derm find a good back up. i am not saying dont apply to derm. hell, i applied to all the harvard psych programs. apply to derm but be realistic. i am not trying to discourage anyone. just have some $ saved up to apply to multiple specialities. i spent 3000$ just to apply to all the psych program.

5)do NOT automatically choose IM or FP as the none of the above choice if u dont know what to do. i recommend psych. try to do what u like.


also it is possible to transfer after II mbbs to the carribean or east europe. there must be some other advice i may be missing out on. however this should give u an edge. if u want to finish in india that is fine. just delay ur degree so ur still officially a student. a student is eligible for things a graduate is not. good luck.

see now this post sounds better...lol. I dont really plan on transfering anywhere else, i like india too much now (all my family is there and ive made some damn good friends as well) plus i dont wanan deal with the hassle. Im not interested in phsych and i dont think i ever would be...im actually much more interested in IM or Gen Surgery. Im planning to do research both in india and maybe here as well and yeah i will most likely do the internship here too (the surgery rotation here at my county hospital is damn good..and i'll prolly hook something up down in LA). I dont really like derm either...

 

[sga430]

research in india wont count as much. do it in america. once again anything that smells of curry is unfortunately not regarded highly in the us unless u get published in a us publication. however if u can do research while doing med school this is not a bad idea as anything helps. but dont hang around india longer than u have to in order to do research. try to avoid using indian LoRs. i used only american ones and they work better. surgery is getting easier to get but still tough and dont feel bad if you dont get it. as for IM it is important to get a good program if u want cards or GI. however again dont feel bad if u dont get a good program. with 45% imgs not matching just be lucky u got something.

make sure you do externships in america and these are easier to get BEFORE you graduate. if u can delay ur diploma until u get ur externships. i did mine in miami beach and beverly hills and had a blast. almost compensated for the lack of certain unmentionable pleasures in the old country. however i could afford it. my last 3 years of stuggling cost probably more than my decade in india. it is not cheap going to 49 interviews (the avg us med student goes to 7 maybe.) and i am not complaining about the 49 interviews - i was lucky. a lot imgs only get 2 after applying to 50 or more. (please apply to atleast 150 places. dont worry about them being too hard or them being crappy. aim high but be safe.) i would recommend doing your intern year in america. also think about volunteering and join organizations to buff ur CV. i would by first aid for the img and first aid for the match, isserson's and how to choose a med speciality by mr. freeman. early knowledge of this whole process is important.

 

[strangeglove]

How about this for a reason to stay in India: This country, which is providing your medical education, is in desperate need of physicians to care for its population.

 

[sga430]

well if you want to stay in india then it is perfectly fine to go to med school in india. my advice was FOR those who go to med school in india to try and take a short cut to getting a residency in the US so they can work in the US.

but if u want to work in india i heard doing a residency in UK is a better idea. u will be more marketable. especially if it were a fellowship. a us degree is good as well. there is a residency in canada that u can pay to get in. however u will not be recognized in canada but u will be recognized in india. i dont know too much about this but u can ask docs workin in india about this.