Please review all available integrated CT programs

[Cardioman29]

Hey, can someone please spell out all of the integrated CT programs. Aside from the new Stanford 0+6 program, I know there are several 4+3 programs that are not well advertised. Brigham? Wash U? UVA? A lot of this is hearsay so I'd love a reference for each program.

Thanks!!!

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[Blade28]

It may be tough as these are all very new and there are very few residents here interested in CT Surg...there are even fewer fellows in said programs.

Where in your medical training are you?

 

[SocialistMD]

Only one for each program? That seems low, I would have demanded two or three, complete with notarized statements.

Heh. It is an awful demanding post from someone asking for others do do the grunt work, isn't it?

The WashU program isn't really integrated in the conventional sense; yes it is a 4+3, but you don't match for that spot directly. It is available to one resident per year who decides s/he wants to do CT surgery, and has a strong preference for those who are internal candidates (read: all so far have been at WashU since their intern year). It enables you (at least, it is intended to and so far it hasn't been an issue) to still get your board certification in general surgery as well as in CT.

 

[Cardioman29]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a fourth year med student applying in gen surg. I interviewed for the Stanford integrated program but am not willing to give up on my gen surg board certification just yet. I'm more interested in one of the 4+3 programs. I thought there were a few more out there.

 

[Pilot Doc]

I'm a fourth year med student applying in gen surg. .

In that case, you should inquire directly at the places you have/will interview. Since the likelihood of you getting any more interview invites at this point is nil, it doesn't matter where the 4+3 programs are. You need to find out if there are any among your rank list.

 

[Blade28]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a fourth year med student applying in gen surg. I interviewed for the Stanford integrated program but am not willing to give up on my gen surg board certification just yet. I'm more interested in one of the 4+3 programs. I thought there were a few more out there.

Did you apply to all of the aforementioned integrated programs?

 

[Anka]

For all but Stanford, you don't apply right out of school; you apply and match into general surgery, and they accept an internal candidate out of the program. Personally, it moved one program down my list, because I'm not sure I'm hot on doing CT there (although I might be in a few years... dunno, you don't meet any cardiac faculty up there), and I can imagine a bad political situation if as a PGY 3 I was very interested in CT, but didn't want to do their CT fast track option because I wanted to do fellowship somewhere else.

Anka

 

[Pilot Doc]

I can imagine a bad political situation if as a PGY 3 I was very interested in CT, but didn't want to do their CT fast track option

Based on my n of 1 institution, I don't think that's a major concern.

1) even if you are hot on CT as a PGY3, there's no reason you have to tell everyone.
2) Some people don't want to give up their chief year and end up doing 5+X regardless, even if they stay
3) People go away for fellowships all the time.

 

[ESU_MD]

As much as I do not like basic general surgery, I would not sacrifice being GS boarded going into CT. If nothing more for it being a right of passage that every other CT surgeon before me went through.
integrated programs just seem like such a short cut.
It is bad enough that I am from the "80 hr" generation, which I will have to be ashamed of for years until they cut it down to "40 hrs"

On the other hand, if you like CT- NEVER admit it to your general surgeons until you are a chief. they will write you off QUICK. They take it as an insult, that after 5 years of them suffering and training you, you are turning your back on them and not going into gen surgery. at least thats how it is at a community hospital.

The good thing is I stopped caring and avoid all the complex Gen surgery cases that end up ini morbidity conference like whipples, livers etc.. now I focus on staying out of the hospital and doing fun cases like hernias, and some lap stuff. short timer syndrome has set in!!!

 

[ReginaB]

Mayo Rochester and University of Maryland have 4 + 3 programs starting up this year.

 

[Winged Scapula]

On the other hand, if you like CT- NEVER admit it to your general surgeons until you are a chief. they will write you off QUICK. They take it as an insult, that after 5 years of them suffering and training you, you are turning your back on them and not going into gen surgery. at least thats how it is at a community hospital.

Try it with Breast or Plastics and see what the reaction is!

 

[Castro Viejo]

On the other hand, if you like CT- NEVER admit it to your general surgeons until you are a chief. they will write you off QUICK. They take it as an insult, that after 5 years of them suffering and training you, you are turning your back on them and not going into gen surgery. at least thats how it is at a community hospital.

Same thing with Vascular. The comment I hear all the time, "You're doing a Vascular Surgery fellowship to learn what you should've learned in five years of General Surgery."

The good thing is I stopped caring and avoid all the complex Gen surgery cases that end up ini morbidity conference like whipples, livers etc.. now I focus on staying out of the hospital and doing fun cases like hernias, and some lap stuff. short timer syndrome has set in!!!

I tried. Then my Chairman called me up, "I'm training General Surgeons. You are training as a General Surgeon. You can't spend the rest of your residency doing just Vascular cases."

So the Whipple I did last week died. Died like a dog. I think I might've knocked off the right hepatic, mistaking it for the GDA or something. I dunno. Can't figure it out. It's bothering me... But I hear ya... I don't wanna be involved with these train wreck operations either really. I'm trying to spend the last 130 days of my career taking my juniors through bread and butter crap cases like hernias, lumps and bumps, and basic laparoscopic cases (choles, appys, etc.).

 

[The Bad]

Try it with Breast or Plastics and see what the reaction is!

LOL, that's a good one Dr. Cox. I can only imagine the reactions when you told people you were (seriously) going for Breast.

 

[The Bad]

As others have alluded to there's no point finishing just a year early but not being board certified in General Surgery. The future of CT surgery is crap anyways even if some people refuse to accept it (it's called denial by the way). So you might as well keep the door open by being board certified in General Surgery so you'll at least have a career in that when you're scrounging with the other ten thousand CT surgeons for one of the few decent CT jobs out there.

 

[Winged Scapula]

LOL, that's a good one Dr. Cox. I can only imagine the reactions when you told people you were (seriously) going for Breast.

Hell it was their idea (they tried to talk all the "girls" into it). I resisted for several years.

But those that did react? They's eating their words now when I walk out of the office hours before they do, pick up a larger check and don't go anywhere near the hospital on my weekends.