Poaching??

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Ai

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I am currently enrolled in a masters program that I am not planning to complete before (hopefully) beginning med school. I have heard that this may cause a problem with admissions as it is considered poor etiquette for adcoms to accept someone who is a student in another graduate program. Can anyone offer any insight into this?

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That's true. Most med schools will require a letter from your current grad/professional school stating that you have finished or will finish the program in time for the start of medical school or that you have withdrawn from the program. Granted, if you've withdrawn, then you have a new set of questions to answer. Hope this is helpful.
 
Thanks, that does help. Here's my situation... I began in a masters program studying Oriental medicine in January. Initially I just wanted to take some classes to learn a little about Eastern medicine and broaden my perspective. The admissions counselor suggested I apply for the masters program because I would have more classes to choose from and would also be eligible for financial aid. I was completely honest with her about my intentions and about not completing the program. By the time I start med school, if all goes as planned, I will have done almost half of the 4 year program. Does anybody have any suggestions as to whether I should contact each med school and explain this now, or just wait and see if they mention it?
 
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hate to tell you this, Ai, but beckyg's advice is correct. most, if not all, medical schools expect you to finish the degree before matriculating and tend to not look favorably upon an applicant's assertions that they will drop out of the program prior to matriculating, if accepted. in fact, i had to get a letter of recommendation from my graduate advisor stating that i will indeed finish my masters this spring. some med schools, in fact, will not even look at your application if it is doubted that you will finish up your program during the application year. it's not just that it's poor etiquette; what i've been told is that adcoms simply don't want to admit anyone that won't be able to attend and can expect to defer.
 
Did you deal with this right at the beginning of the application process or did the schools contact you asking for more info?
 
Actually, it varies with different schools. I knew one girl who was going to attain her Ph.D. in June 2000, and she applied for med school during Fall 1999, and she was accepted by two top 50 med schools. Although in the end, she decided against med school and went into industry but the point was, she only showed a declared intent to graduate from grad school not an actual letter from the department because she couldn't have gotten such confirmation in early Fall of 1999 when she was starting to apply, although I believe her PI wrote her a letter stating the approximate date of her graduation... Another example is another girl who was in the same Ph.D. program, and after six years, her research was going nowhere, and she decided to abort with a M.S. instead, and her PI wrote her a very strong recommendation letter, and she got into a top 5 med school. Furthermore, another girl from the same school was in her second year of Ph.D., and she decided to apply to med school at that time, clearly with the intent to abort her Ph.D. and pursue M.D. Although the adcom expressed concern over her chances of admission since she was clearing an example of a stepping-stone, but she was accepted regardless at the end. So it all depends on which school you are applying. Furthermore, some schools are very receptive to defering admissions, like Hopkins for instances, allowed you to defer up to 3 years. But schools like UCSF and UCSD are very reluctant to offer that... Most Ph.D. candidates are likely to defer their admission because sometimes their graduation may be delayed by a publication revision or something like that... but to await until Ph.D. is granted is not practical since one full year may be wasted if you in fact graduated on time. But most 4th, 5th or 6th year grad students, if backed with decent publications and PI recommendations, are usually favorably considered for med school because their intent to finish their degree is evident and that ettiquette is no longer an issue since their PIs agreed to let them go.
 
This is very interesting. I'm going to be starting an MS program this fall, I'd hate to be turned away because I'm enrolled in an MS program. I know for sure that the University of Illinois doesn't require applicants to finish their degrees prior to matriculation. That's just one school though. Does anybody know of any other schools that follow the same policy? I only enrolled in the MS program to demonstrate that I could handle graduate coursework. My GPA is bad and I need to establish a solid record. I do intend to continue and pursue a PhD however. Will this be looked at favorably? I'm not really "ditching" my graduate work to go to medical school. I will continue it (hopefully) if I am accepted as an MD/PhD candidate. My PI knows this, and he is OK with it, so the letter will be good. Any insight?
 
Hi Ai,

Just wanted to be clear that this will not bar you from going to med school, it's just gonna make your life a little harder during the admissions process. Definitely heed everyone's advice and anonymously ask Adcoms about your situation.

In my case, I went to law school right after college (1997). I withdrew 6 weeks later because it was not what I wanted to study (unfortunately I had to attend to find this out). I applied to med school last year and got a lot of questions during my interviews about why I left law school and if I was sure medicine was an appropriate career for me. Georgetown was wholly unable to accept my responses (it was a painful interview). However, other schools like Chicago Med and NYMC did not seem to have a problem with it. Only GWU asked for a letter from the Dean of the law school confirming I had withdrawn. No one else asked for anything (but it was clear that I was no longer attending from my coursework section of AMCAS). At schools with closed-file interviews, I did not bring it up and it did not seem to hurt me. However, I do remember many med schools stating that if you were in a graduate or professional degree program, you had to get a letter confirming your expected graduation date (being prior to the beginning of med school) or a letter confirming that you had withdrawn.

Perhaphs a letter from the person who suggested you start the Master's program, stating that the school knew you were planning to apply to medical school and that the arrangement was to help you out financially, would be very helpful and alleviate many of the Adcoms' concerns. Anyway, the bottom line is that it can be done - you just need to find out what individual schools will require and how this may affect your chances. Good luck!

-- Becky
 
to clarify my previous post: you won't be shut out *everywhere*, Ai. i researched this a lot when i started grad school and the majority of schools flat-out state that they need to have a letter from either your graduate advisor (and sometimes the school Dean) that you will be able to finish the program prior to matriculating to med school. and i do know that some schools flat-out state that they will not even consider your application if they do not have this assurance--off the top of my head, loyola and vermont have this policy and i know that they're not the only schools that feel this way. it doesn't matter how far along you are in your degree, or whether it's masters or PhD--they just want to know that you will finish up.

but of course, that's not to say there aren't exceptions, as others have noted. some schools are more lenient with this. there was a thread about this a few weeks ago so you may want to search for it. i have a friend who was accepted to med school only one year into his masters, so there's an exception right there....BUT, he only got one acceptance and many schools refused to interview him...when he contacted them to find out what was wrong, he was often told that it was because he had just started a two-year masters and they knew he wouldn't be able to finish up the degree before the following academic year. that's just one example that i know of. but i've also heard that some schools are very flexible with this if you happen to be enrolled in a degree for which they have a dual-degree program; say, you're a PhD or MPH student and your school has an MD/PhD or MD/MPH program--they will simply apply your graduate credit to the dual degree.

imtiaz, to be honest, my advice to you is that you wait a year and get a year of graduate courses under your belt. you are in the same situation that i was in a year ago and i'm simply sharing the advice i was given then. if your goal is to raise your GPA and prove that you can handle graduate work, then you need to finish up some courses and have some final grades for adcoms to be convinced of this. some schools state that they will NOT consider graduate work until you have completed at least a semester. plus, you will not have any grades until december, and not only will one semester have a very minimal effect on your GPA, by then, you could theoretically have been rejected from a few schools already--if not, then you've still already missed the first rounds of interviews. so while the fact that you're in a graduate program may not affect your application status at the schools you're applying to (depending on what they are), your pursuit of a graduate degree isn't going to have the effect that you think it will, in terms of your GPA and proving to adcoms that you can handle the work. again, this is the same boat i was in a year ago and i was advised to wait.

sacrament--i think you're in the clear. all adcoms want to know is that you'll be finished sometime before the following academic year begins.
 
You mean that I should not apply for 2002 but for 2003? Meaning, I should take a year of courses and apply after that? Why wouldn't they look at my transcripts "as they come in?" I plan on just sending my graduate transcripts as soon as they are posted. Last year I got a good idea of how long it takes comittees to review your application. I'm sure that I can manage to send them my transcripts, both for fall and spring.

But I was advised by an adcom at the medical school that I want to enroll at that graduate coursework is the way to go. Also, I was told that I could re-apply while I was enrolled in the graduate program. That's just one school though. Anyhow, thanks for your advice. How'd it work out for you in the end, sandflea?

Originally posted by sandflea:

imtiaz, to be honest, my advice to you is that you wait a year and get a year of graduate courses under your belt. you are in the same situation that i was in a year ago and i'm simply sharing the advice i was given then. if your goal is to raise your GPA and prove that you can handle graduate work, then you need to finish up some courses and have some final grades for adcoms to be convinced of this. some schools state that they will NOT consider graduate work until you have completed at least a semester. plus, you will not have any grades until december, and not only will one semester have a very minimal effect on your GPA, by then, you could theoretically have been rejected from a few schools already--if not, then you've still already missed the first rounds of interviews. so while the fact that you're in a graduate program may not affect your application status at the schools you're applying to (depending on what they are), your pursuit of a graduate degree isn't going to have the effect that you think it will, in terms of your GPA and proving to adcoms that you can handle the work. again, this is the same boat i was in a year ago and i was advised to wait.
 
yes, i meant to wait and apply for 2003. sure, schools will look at transcripts as they come in, but you won't have any new grades until december...and by the time transcripts are processed and mailed in, it will be late december, when many adcoms don't meet...and so by the time adcoms see your new grades it will already be january!!! you will have lost several months in the application process versus waiting for a year and having adcoms see the 'new and improved you' first thing in august or september.

yes, if you want to improve your grades, then graduate coursework *is* the way to go--it's just that no one will be seeing the results of your efforts until next year. some schools aim to fill their classes by the end of the year and you may only be interviewing for the waiting list right off the bat, if you get an interview at all that late. also, by the time your spring grades arrive (mid to late may), med schools will have already filled their classes and will no longer be interviewing, so your spring grades will only help in pulling you off the waitlist at only the schools you've interviewed at--it won't help you get an interview. so you'll really only have one 'shot' at proving yourself, when your fall grades are viewed by adcoms next january.

i'm not saying that your time will be wasted if you apply this year (i don't know exactly what your GPA is, MCATS, what else you have going for you, etc)--it's just that your options will be severely limited versus if you waited a year, not just because you won't have any grades to show for yourself, but also because of the reasons in my above posts: A) some schools will just toss your app in the trash if they see you've just committed yourself to a graduate degree, and B) assuming it's not a one-year masters you're enrolled, many other schools will want a letter from a faculty member at your grad school stating that you will finish up. there are some schools that consider withdrawals from grad school but i've noticed that they tend to prefer that you withdraw *before* you even apply to med school. so when i sat down and weighed my options, it made a lot more sense to me to wait a year, fix what needed to be fixed on my application, and then apply with a full set of graduate year grades, rather than just taking my chances and risking having to reapply the following year. i'm just now applying for the second time (after a year of grad school) so i can't tell you the results yet, but my application is definitely a lot stronger this time around. in the end, you just need to decide for yourself if limiting your options now is worth it.

hope that helps! :D
 
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