Podiatrist salary at hospital vs. private practice

Discussion in 'Podiatric Residents & Physicians' started by luckyfeet, Mar 4, 2012.

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  1. RockyIV

    RockyIV 5+ Year Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    This was the most important in my experience. And maybe even more important was convincing people that they "need" you. Most practices would be well off with plenty of the residents they interview/get in contact with. And many podiatry group practices don't really need to hire an associate when they do. It's your job to make them believe that they do...

    So you ask a question about whether or not the position was on the open market, so to speak, and then you follow up with this comment? You made your point in the previous paragraph and then (without any knowledge of the situation) proceed to further the most negative aspect of the point. And since you asked, the position did not exist until after I made a contact and was allowed to meet with/give a presentation to some of the big wigs. Again, there was no "ad" for the position. Of course, there were certain things that had to already be in place for all of this to work and I may have gotten a little lucky in that sense.

    You must have been on the syrup again. Because to say that somehow ALL hospital employees, in EVERY scenario have ZERO business sense (that is exactly what your statement implies) is false.

    This sums YOU up. Kidsfeet's advice = worth same $$ as a professional attorney. You know everything, including all things that a professional in a field completely different than your own would know. Unreal.
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  3. SuperFeisty

    SuperFeisty 5+ Year Member

    Jun 21, 2011
    Oh darn PADPM :( I'm not very good looking! Time to hit the gym!
  4. I also love the fact that you chose to only highlight the negative stuff in my post, rather than focus on the congratulatory aspect. That again tells me a lot about you, as well.

    Whether you chose to believe what I say or not is immaterial to me. My Dad is an engineer, but throughout his life he gave me a lot of good advice about a lot of things that had nothing to do with his job. You would think that someone as clearly talented as you would take everything with a grain of salt, but also take advice for what it's worth. I certainly don't know as much as a good attorney. If you read my thread on Immigration you'll see that I gave advice based on MY immigration experience. The advice I gave cost me $60 000 to get from the best immigration attorney I could afford, and I gave it out here on my own time, free of charge.

    Maybe I have something to contribute other than podiatric knowledge. Maybe I know a thing or two about contract negotiation.How many contracts have you negotiated or helped others to negotiate? Maybe I can save your skin on a bad Surgery Center deal. How many of these types of ventures have you worked on both sides? Maybe not. Ask your lawyer. Happy spending.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  5. newankle

    newankle Senior Member 5+ Year Member

    Dec 11, 2009
    In our practice we are also afraid to overpay new associates so I think that potential for losing money on new hires isn't completely an issue of podiatry practices versus other practices but more an issue of how big and healthy the practice is. We have just signed two new orthopaedic surgeons to start later this year - another sports orthopod and a spine orthopod. If they don't produce enough and/or leave then we also will lose money and be unhappy just as any other practice would. However, the more partners there is then that risk is spread out and we all take a little hit as opposed to a single practitioner that brings in someone that doesn't work out who would take a bigger personal hit.
    FYI a good way to make more ancillary income is to setup a dispensary pharmacy. This obviously works better for larger practices. I don't think imaging or surgery centers work very well to make money any more.
  6. RockyIV

    RockyIV 5+ Year Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    Maybe I focus on the negative because a majority of your posts are negative when someone disagrees or presents an experience different than your own. As far as the congratulatory aspect...this is basically what you are doing


    The fact that Ricky Bobby said "with all due respect" does not change what was said after. Much like your "congratulations, but you clearly don't know what you've accomplished or gotten yourself into. You have zero understanding of contract negotiations, surgical centers, etc...but seriously, I'm happy for you."

    This is what you said. You generalize me as a "hospital guy" who "didn't bother learning" all of the business stuff because "I thought I wouldn't need it". I twisted nothing. You made this over-generalization of all hospital employees.
  7. Are you going to have your own office manager?

    Will you be managing your own staff?

    Will you ever have to fire anyone?

    Will you ever do interviews for staff positions?

    Will you ever have to personally deal with a staff member who steals from you?

    Will you ever have to personally deal with staff not showing up and run the front desk to keep your doors open and not flush a day down the toilet because someone is sick?

    Will you be directly responsible for all the billing you do?

    Will you be running your own Public Relations campaign?

    Will you have to go to a bank with a demographics study to get them to give you a loan to finance your new office?

    Will you be aware of how much EVERYTHING you use costs?

    Will you be trying to evaluate EMR systems to see which one you can afford and integrate into your office without having to invest in new hardware?

    Will you be intimately involved in evaluating the various digital radiograph systems and figure out which one is most cost effective?

    Will you worry about how much taxes you are paying for your business?

    How much will that X-Mas bonus be for your hard working staff? Can you even afford to give one?

    How much does it cost to replace that broken podiatry chair anyway? Can you get it used? Isn't there some kind of gov't incentive when purchasing new medical equipment?

    Wow, I ran out of Lidocaine! How could I be so stupid. Wasn't the office manager supposed to keep track of that? Crap, national back order. Whoa...

    OMG, the phones/internet/computers went out. WTF? I can't make a living if I can't communicate with my patients!!!

    These are things that go through a business owners head all the time. You know how many people I know that went the hospital route and don't have a single clue about all these things? Will you two or three years out?
  8. Agreed. Imagine that, someone else besides me thinks the same way!
  9. Sorry, but where exactly in my post did I actually say these things about YOU specifically??

    If you say "Nowhere, but you implied it!", I'm going to ROFLMAO.
  10. PADPM

    PADPM Banned 2+ Year Member

    Feb 22, 2009
    East Coast-maybe????

    Ah, but you forgot THE most important issue;

    "Do I prosecute that little old lady who keeps opening my cabinet drawers and steals all the corn pads and Band-Aids".
  11. Holy crap! We have a little old lady like that in our office too!! LMAO!!
  12. RockyIV

    RockyIV 5+ Year Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    I'll quote you again...

    Everything you claimed was clearly directed at me. Anyone with half a brain reading this thread realized that long ago.

    As for your list of 21 questions. I could answer "yes" to 15 of them (although 2-3 of the questions are things that many partners in a practice couldn't even say yes too). Including the all important final question. Of those 15 "yes" answers I would say almost half I could have answered "yes" to just during residency.

    You make a lot of assumptions about me. And maybe you justify it by saying that all of these smart a** questions are only there to "help" people think about everything that goes into having your own practice. If that is the case, spare me. I had my own small business prior to and during Podiatry school. I don't need your advice, I've had my own failures to learn from. Hearing all about yours is just depressing.
  13. Jeez man. So when you're going to be employed by this hospital system you're going to be doing all these things?

    Also, you need a dose of humble pie, brother. Now who is acting like the great and powerful ____? "You don't need my advice"? Everyone needs help once in awhile. With all your big talk, I would hope you learned that during your business days. I learn from people everyday and am only offering MY advice. I haven't seen any of yours that pertains to me, but I'll keep looking. I'm sure I can learn a thing or two from you, so keep posting. That doesn't mean I won't inject my past experience into it, whether you think it's valid or not. Somebody else might learn something. If you think you don't need my advice, great. Maybe you don't. But I bet you might learn something, however little, if you toned down the attitude just a bit.
  14. dtrack22

    dtrack22 7+ Year Member

    Apr 20, 2008
    Why would you twist that reply around and ask another condescending question?
  15. NONE of the hospital people I know do any of that. He may be talking about what he did in the PAST, but I doubt very much that he is going to do any of that EVER in his hospital job.

    What MOST (not ALL as is constantly implied in this thread about my replies) hospital employees do is show up to work and go home. Period. They've never seen an encounter form, never had to pour over monthly revenue, deal with lawyers and accountants about business (NOT personal) taxes, hire staff...etc. I find it extremely hard to believe that this position RockyV apparently created for himself will have him do even half the stuff on the list I provided. If so, I'm wrong about HIS position. I'm talking from MY experience dealing with people in these types of positions. If RockyV has truly done something unusual with it, wonderful. Hopefully, it will be a new model for other positions of this type in the future. I've seen MANY groups get swallowed up by large hospital system and the very reason they "allowed" it to happen was precisely because they didn't have to deal with any of that anymore. At least for a couple of years when the deal falls apart and they are left to deal with a huge juggernaut when trying to re-establish themselves in private practice. Just like the VA issue with DPM not being able to participate as expert witnesses brought up in another thread, this was one of the many reasons I left the area I was in. Overnight, I saw half my patient load disappear because of a group being bought out and all the referrals going to them. That being said, your head would spin if you talked to them now and how stuck they are with NO recourse. Do you have the cash to fight multi-billion dollar organization? Neither do I.

    You think his reply "Spare me", isn't condescending? Words of a big shot. Sorry.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  16. dtrack22

    dtrack22 7+ Year Member

    Apr 20, 2008
    So in answer to my question, you were being condescending because "he did it first"?
  17. No, I'm generally condescending dontcha know??

    What's interesting to me is you single out MY comment as being condescending, but not the amount of condescension in every one of his posts.

    Call me out anytime. I don't mind, but at least be equal about it and do it across the board. And please don't feed me the, "well you're an Asst Mod" line. Puhlease.
  18. RockyIV

    RockyIV 5+ Year Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    So you don't feel like moderators should be held to a higher standard?

    I will do just over half of the stuff on the list provided.
  19. Good for you! Hopefully you will learn a great deal and in case things don't work you'll be g2g. Once again, I know many who can't say the same. Kudos.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  20. Hockeyfan23

    Hockeyfan23 5+ Year Member

    Jan 23, 2012
    I think the above posts are right. My dad owns and runs a chemical company. There is a lot that goes into running a business. So more $=more stress. Also jus because someone makes $300K in a private practice doesnt mean thats what they make. They may put that down for tax purposes. However they may have multiple credit cards for "business" expenses, etc
  21. MaxillofacialMN

    MaxillofacialMN Osteopathic Foot Dentist 7+ Year Member

    Dec 2, 2009
    The Grand Ballroom
    I talk about that all the time. These private practice numbers have got to be skewed for the reason that you gave about business expenses.

    I wonder if that's why the BLS and APMA have such a gap between their reported numbers. The BLS most likely goes off tax info, whereas the APMA is probably self-reported, where you are more likely to give the number including "business" expenses so that you look better among your peers... I could be way off, but I think I may be on to something here....
  22. Hockeyfan23

    Hockeyfan23 5+ Year Member

    Jan 23, 2012
    i think its the opposite of what you are saying. I think they actually make more than they are saying. You always want to report a lower income for lower taxes
  23. MaxillofacialMN

    MaxillofacialMN Osteopathic Foot Dentist 7+ Year Member

    Dec 2, 2009
    The Grand Ballroom
    Yeah.... that IS what I said.... The BLS using numbers from tax info, so pods report low. The APMA probably uses self-reported numbers, so pods report higher to make themselves look better among their peers. The number they report to APMA is probably not tax-based whereas the BLS is. BLS reports like 120k APMA reports like 190k. So.......
  24. Temperature101

    Temperature101 Banned Banned 2+ Year Member

    May 26, 2011
    How that person will be able to pay down his loan with that kind of salary? Even pharmacists make more than that...If podiatrists are taking that kind of salary, it's not surprising the profession is having a tough time "getting off the ground" so to speak.
  25. MarquetteGuy

    MarquetteGuy 10+ Year Member

    Jan 7, 2006
    I have posted my personal resident experience with my own job-hunt process in the 2011 Pod Practice Survey thread, which may be of some help to you. Just to show other options.
  26. Creflo

    Creflo time to eat 10+ Year Member

    May 16, 2007
    For the numbers mentioned in this thread like Feli's earlier quote -

    ( For private practice.. you are looking at basic benefits and roughly 60-120k base with usually 20-40% bonus for productivity collections over 2-3x the base salary.
    Hospitals or large multi-specialty groups usually have higher base salary (close to double) and nice benefits... but with significantly less productivity % bonus)

    Does this apply to pods who aren't proficient in rearfoot? Will hospitals hire forefoot pods?

    Also, I have asked this theoretical question to a couple of practice owners "Would you hire a pod and pay them strictly a percentage of production ("eat what you kill")?" And it seems that most wouldn't want to do this. I don't understand why the reluctance to do this. Are they afraid they wouldn't make enough money from this arrangement (with too much money going to the employee), or that the employee wouldn't produce enough to cover their expenses?
  27. dkrxn

    dkrxn full eclipse 7+ Year Member

    May 16, 2008
    The South
    What makes you certain this person has a loan to pay down?
    What makes you certain doctors in any specialty or philosophy don't value patient care and their own lifestyle over a flashy salary?
    There are towns in this country where $85k will get you a giant farmhouse and a gang of friends happy to help you renovate it. And an Audi to park on the gravel road. And ownership of your own Podiatric medical practice where little old ladies can steal corn pads.
  28. pod101


    Sep 1, 2012
    North East
    Dkrxn...would you be up for renovating my farm house?

    Geography, skill sets, and who you know will all play an important roll in determining your income. 85k might take you pretty far in Iowa, Kentucky, Montana, and Alabama but it will not take you very far in NYC, LA or San Jose.
  29. Moose A Moose

    Moose A Moose 7+ Year Member

    Nov 24, 2009
    Philadelphia, PA
    Lets say hypothetically someone's loans- undergrad and grad- are around $350,000. So that'd be something like $32,000 a year. You're still taking home 50-60k based off of the salary in question.

    I could see how a desire for a larger cash flow would be sought after, but in this haggard economy- and while practicing something you love- I really don't think it's all that bad... Especially as your initial pay grade.

    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  30. MaxillofacialMN

    MaxillofacialMN Osteopathic Foot Dentist 7+ Year Member

    Dec 2, 2009
    The Grand Ballroom
    Taxes though...
  31. Moose A Moose

    Moose A Moose 7+ Year Member

    Nov 24, 2009
    Philadelphia, PA
    True. Almost forgot about Uncle Sammy..
  32. dyk343

    dyk343 7+ Year Member

    Oct 5, 2008
    300K in debt...You also forgot 7 years of spending your life under a lot of stress, 20s spent with your nose in a book, friends out on vacations and posting amazing photos on Facebook, etc, etc.

    I do love what I am doing though. I can say I know a lot of people who do not. But with all the work, and negative income. It would be nice to have a reward at the end to enjoy.
    Weirdy likes this.
  33. Moose A Moose

    Moose A Moose 7+ Year Member

    Nov 24, 2009
    Philadelphia, PA
    30s are the new 20s, baby. :D
    New York Podiatrist likes this.
  34. babyelephant


    Apr 26, 2015
    Current residents and pods
    Please post and update info on this thread
  35. TrevorG2221

    TrevorG2221 Banned Banned Account on Hold

    Aug 9, 2016
    That's very much incorrect. Either you're lying about being a doctor or you're just brain dead. If you work at a successful podiatrist private practice, within the first year, you can bring in $250,000. Almost all of my cousins are podiatrists and tell me the same, the first year I worked at a private practice I made about $220,000. If you work at a garbage practice that has no business (which is very rare), you can expect around 90k the first year. If you are a partner of a successful private practice you can easily make $500,000. If you are the owner of a successful private practice, you can make a lot more. I've been owning 3 podiatrist private practices for about 6 years. The first year (when I only had once private practice) , I brought in $520,000. However, the second year when I opened up my other 2 practices I brought in about $1.4 mill. Newankle, you are defiantly not in the 1%. The 1% make well above a few million a year, however, at the same time they own many private practices. I've never took a hospital job, as I know the pay isn't as good, and the hours are not as good. You can make the same amount of money in dentistry or any healthcare related profession in which you have the choice of opening up your own private practice. My goal is to open up more than 10 practices, and therefore, I will make a lot more. It's not really about the money anymore, it's more about self achievements. My father was a very successful podiatrist, owned 8 practices. He was the top 1%, along with many other people.
  36. Weirdy


    Mar 2, 2016
    Gotta have money to make money. Did start up costs give you any problems at all? Just curious.

    Your numbers sound awesome. But a majority of grads may not have the opportunity to jump in and expand as you have.

    More power to you. I can't even imagine 10 practices.
  37. heybrother

    heybrother 5+ Year Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Don't waste your time imaging it. The guy was trolling. He claimed to own 10 dental practices in another thread. I'll never understand why people do crap like that - trolling, lying, insulting, ...bumping old threads, ugh. If newankle sees all this - don't bother wasting your time bro - the troll is dead, for now.
    dr.phoot and Weirdy like this.
  38. ExperiencedDPM


    Nov 23, 2015
    These types of threads are really useless. Why do I say that? It's because there are so many factors involved, there is no real answer. It's like asking someone "how much does a new home cost?" Of course you can purchase a home for $90,000 and you can purchase a home for $5 million.

    Everyone practices differently and some doctors will do ANYTHING to make a buck, regardless of ethics. I'm not saying or implying that those who make significant money are unethical, but it's a factor you need to consider in every case.

    Other factors include the insurance mix in a particular area. What are the demographics in the area? Are the patients in a financial situation where they will pay for non covered procedures such as ESWT, EPAT, PRP injections, custom orthoses and other procedures. How is the insurance coverage in your area? What is the scope of practice in your area? Is there a DPM on every corner or are you the only one around? If working as a hospital employee, is your salary based on RVUs, is it based on production? If working for a hospital are you the only employed DPM? What scope of privileges do you have? Are you covering foot and ankle trauma and ER? How many weekends are you on call?

    I have colleagues who make a lot of money and do a lot of unethical things on a daily basis. They sleep well at night, bu that's not the way I chose to practice. I didn't go into practice to follow the mantra of the practice management group and try to sell patients all kinds of crap. As I've stated before, please don't fall for the trap of these practice management groups who preach how you can make tons of money. At the present time, the well known podiatric practice mgmt group has a current president who actually filed bankruptcy. Yep, only this profession would have a group that's dedicated to telling you how to make money, led by a guy who filed bankruptcy. You can't make this stuff up.
  39. yayayaok


    May 11, 2015
    I transferred out of DO school after MS1 to go DPM. Our school sponsored shadowing surgeries at a local hospital. I met a local DPM and was convinced this was the life. I've worked at level 1 centers and worked with all sorts of residents. General surgery residents are a wreck, and int med sit on the wards till 3am.

    The main reason I withdrew was because I was shocked by how busy this physician was. He was doing 8-9 surgeries a week, all were unique cases. In clinic we were seeing 50 patients a Day.

    Long story short. Podiatry is about to explode as evidenced by the practice I shadowed and the aging population. If you want to be a surgeon like I did, and you don't want to do a 5yr surgery residency, then a fellowship.... Go DPM. 3yrs residency and Max 2yrs for fellowship, with so many specialties.

    The physician I shadowed was extremely open when we discussed his income. As an independent practitioner he was netting 600k. He told me that if he moved his practice to LA or NY he would net double. (We were in New Mexico, which has the greatest shortage of physicians in America)

    Think about it 50 patients a day and 10 surgeries a week...
    If he is taking in let's say $75 per patient 3 days a week ... And paying $200k in wages, 26k in taxes, 40k rent... He is netting 290k on clinic visits. Those are bottom line estimates.

    Say he is netting $4000 for a week of surgery.. Thats $192k

    With unrealistic #s that's still 400k net. It's not rocket science.

    The sky is the limit and he emphasized how many lucrative opportunities are opening up for DPMs.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  40. Weirdy


    Mar 2, 2016
    Location was New Mexico?

    Isn't this growth strictly based on the "Go to where the money is" sentiment? Newly grads usually move back to their home cities which are much more saturated.

    Scope of practice may also change across state lines.

    I've had more than 1 DPM tell me specifically not to go into podiatry and it was out of legitimate care.

    Not saying you're wrong but the statement "Podiatry is about to explode" depends severely on saturation/geographical area no?
  41. yayayaok


    May 11, 2015

    Yea this 1% talk is baloni... There are so many misconceptions about the need for podiatrists/podiatry in general. It's a stigma that is good for us. There are cities like mine that can't handle the new patients. We are booking out 6 months. Like you said if you can manage to expand to multiple locations and hire enough staff you can make as much money as you want.

    ****, podiatry is literally the salary of internal medicine + Orthopaedic surgery. As you may know podiatrist generally rely on themselves to manage other issues such as rheumatoid arthritis... Etc.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  42. yayayaok


    May 11, 2015
    The 2012 census shows that in 3 years 80milliion roughly 85% of the baby boomer cohort will be 65+. Now when I was working with the DPM 95% of our patients were 65+. Maybe once a week we would have a 40yr old. So I think it's safe to say that in 5 years there are going to be millions of elderly needing our care. You are right about saturation and right about choosing where you want to practice. My point is that no matter which city you go to there WILL be a population that needs a podiatrist, and that population will most likely flow like a river to you. There will be excellent opportunity everywhere and like I said we only have a few graduate schools and that really allows us to monopolize the profession :))
    Weirdy likes this.
  43. yayayaok


    May 11, 2015
    And about advising you not to go out of "care" that's stigma buddy. They must a) be insecure and live in a "my son must get an MD to please the family culture" which I'm guessing is the case. They get pimped at the hospital because they are p----ise or they can't speak English. Once you work your way up the food chain at a level 1 trauma center you will realize that a) most people have superegos b) the negativity flows from each level to the next c) doctors about all of them really don't give a flying ____ but they like their money and D) a DPM is a surgeon, surgeons run the entire show. Do you think an allopathic ortho is gunna walk by and say look at that tool DPM, or that cute scrub nurse saying he's just a DPM what does he know.. Nah because you both will be driving home in a BMW and she will be your b-____ tch in the OR

    With that said, I matriculated into osteopathic school but I did not want to specialize in anything besides surgery. We all know osteopath surgery residency slots are 15000:1 odds.

    If you like and have spent much time working with a physician you slowly find out what you really want to do. I suggest you find out for yourself instead of listening to your friend because he isn't you. ita your life make yourself happy. It may take time but it will be worth it.

    The podiatrist you takes to must have been big time donkeys if you ask me. I've met about 50 practicing DPMs. All of them net more than an IM MD.
  44. tennischamp822

    tennischamp822 7+ Year Member

    Jul 3, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  45. Ankle Breaker

    Ankle Breaker Senior Member 5+ Year Member

    Sep 24, 2010
    Emerald City
    Starting salaries range all over the spectrum for new podiatry resident graduates. I am currently looking for jobs.

    From my own personal experience...

    1) podiatry groups looking to hire new graduates offer the least compensation and the worst contracts (in terms of years needed to work to make partner). Highest starting salary offer I came across was 135K from a podiatry group.

    2) Hospitals offer the highest salaries for DPMs. I've come across offers that have ranged from 185 - 250K first year out with RVU/production based bonuses (which get added to your base salary).

    3) Private orthopedics job are harder and harder to come by from my personal experience. Their starting offers are not as high as hospitals but you will make up the difference in a variety of different ways such as buying into the practice as a partner, DME, having financial interest in surgery center and imaging studies (if you have XR and MRI on site), etc

    Overall hospitals are slowly starting to understand that having a DPM on staff can be very lucrative. A well trained surgical DPM can do all the trauma and recon foot and ankle surgery that an ortho can do at 40% of the starting salary. Plus we do all the stuff ortho, general surgery, vascular surgery do NOT want to do --> diabetic foot infections/ amps/ limb salvage/ managing wounds in clinic/ etc.

    A fellowship trained ortho in foot and ankle commands a starting salary of +500k, If a DPM could make close to HALF that starting out they are doing pretty good.
  46. yayayaok


    May 11, 2015
    Because we know people that have bank accounts and we witness first hand the amount of patients being seen. 200-250 for IM... better check that number son. Think about how long you wait in the Dr. Office to be seen. Think how long and complicated some of the patients can be. Now think how much faster you would be if you only has to work from the ankle down

    The forums have a bunch of 22yr old smart asses that make things up.
  47. bobtheweazel


    Jun 24, 2015
    I wouldn't necessarily agree with this bit. Whatever region or system of the body you're working on, you can be thorough or you can not be thorough. There's enough complexity in the foot, ankle, leg to keep you with one patient all day if you wanted to. And it's not like you can completely ignore other body systems and focus ONLY on the foot, ankle, and leg.

    Besides that, when I see my PCP, dude's only with me for like 5 minutes. I think if I tried to match or top that I'd be doing my patients a disservice.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  48. dtrack22

    dtrack22 7+ Year Member

    Apr 20, 2008
    To clarify and add to this point (because I think people will get worked up over it)...I also have found that podiatry groups typically offer a base salary of ~$100k. But, the income ceilings in these groups are typically much higher than many hospital jobs. Also, I've found that new grads who get in to the right situation easily produce enough to generate an income in their first year that's equivalent to many hospital jobs. I have one friend who recently joined a small podiatry group and was the top producer in month 4 of practice, and another individual who graduated from my program that was the highest producer in his group by the end of his first year. Both will make slightly more than any hospital "base" salary in their first year. Of course hospitals also have bonus structures, but what I'm getting at is practice health, needs and bonus structure are much more important than base salary in groups outside of a hospital setting.

    I've interviewed with two groups, whose top producers bring in around ~$800-900k in gross collections. Both run 50-55% overhead. Take out malpractice, health insurance, practice overhead insurance and they are still looking at close to $400k before taxes (those expenses are "paid" by the practice with pre-tax dollars). That doesn't include non-collection based revenue streams shared by the partners (a little money off of associates, surgery centers, MSO's, real estate, DME, etc.). They do very well and on a per RVU basis, better than a hospital employee. That being said, my experience is that podiatrists overwhelmingly overvalue their practices. Sweat equity, charts, goodwill all have relatively little value in today's healthcare system, at least a lot less value than many older practicing pods and retiring pods believe. The potential future buy in is just one more thing you have to pay attention to when looking at pod groups especially. I limit this to podiatry groups only because I have yet to see an Ortho buy in as high as several of the buy ins for pod groups I know or have interviewed with/been offered.

    Hospital type jobs are a great way to make good money and have a full clinic from day 1. They will usually pay relocation expenses and if you go rural you may get some loan repayment assistance/forgiveness. If you find one that will allow you to shape your practice the way you want within the hospital system (or physician group that the hospital employs/contracts with), you aren't going to do much better. Just remember that a hospital is never going to hire you and lose money. You should become familiar with the term "downstream revenue" and keep tabs on your production/pay/future contracts.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  49. dr.phoot


    Mar 5, 2016
    Any comments about the pay in academia? (Research & teaching)
  50. pacpod

    pacpod That foot guy SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    Academic jobs inherently pay less than the potential with a well run private practice/group setting. You have to think about what you want out of a job and the paycheck should not be the sole reason for picking a workplace environment. For an academic position, part of the "pay" is being in a setting that potentially lets you do more of your specific area of interest, be under a university name with greater opportunities for working with other specialties clinically and with research, etc. If you are really curious, many university based medical centers have publicly searchable salaries if you look for them.
  51. ldsrmdude

    ldsrmdude Pod Mod 'Dude SDN Administrator 10+ Year Member

    Feb 20, 2007
    I'll give you my n=1 experience with academics. I applied for a few academic positions and got far enough along with 1 position in a large university hospital to get some specifics. The position was a clinical position with 4 days of clinic/hospital and 1 day of administrative/research time. No podiatry residency but would work with some other residents and medical students. Standard benefit package with a base salary of just short of 200k. No production bonus. As @pacpod said, the income potential is probably higher most of the time in private or group practice, but people don't usually go into academia for the money.
    hematosis, Weirdy, marinepod and 2 others like this.

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