Podiatry Profession Inquiry

[MD Candidate]

Hello,

I am looking into becoming a podiatrist and had a few questions regarding the profession:
-how high is the attrition rate? for example, for medical school, I'm learning that once your in, the attrition is low. However, for pharmacy the attrition is pretty high. How is the podiatry field? Do podiatry programs word toward retaining their candidates or are they cut throat with their grading?
-How saturated is the job market?
-how competitive is it to match with a post graduate residency? Does the type of school you go to influence your ability to match into a program? Are there podiatrists who are unable to match into a program and what happens to them?
- How challenging is it to obtain a job in an urban location?
- What are the continuing education requirements?
-As a podiatrist, how is your work life balance?

Thanks!

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[DexterMorganSK]

I am looking into becoming a podiatrist and had a few questions regarding the profession:
-how high is the attrition rate? for example, for medical school, I'm learning that once your in, the attrition is low. However, for pharmacy the attrition is pretty high. How is the podiatry field? Do podiatry programs word toward retaining their candidates or are they cut throat with their grading?

A lot depends on the program you attend. But the attrition rate can be anywhere from 3-10% . The schools do their best to keep you in and you are given a chance to remediate if you fail a course. However, if let's say you're taking 5 classes and fail 4 then you will be dismissed (for the right reasons). You can find most of this info by visiting the school's website and looking at the "program's/charting outcome"

-How saturated is the job market?

Very saturated in cities like NYC and in states where there are Pod programs. Not so bad in rural states. Do a search here and read up (it's been talked about in the past).

-how competitive is it to match with a post graduate residency? Does the type of school you go to influence your ability to match into a program? Are there podiatrists who are unable to match into a program and what happens to them?

For the past 4 years or so residency placements have been close to 100%. Those that don't match initially can apply to programs that have not yet filled all the spots. Again, search here and read up about it...its been talked about.
School's influence might play a minimal role but your work during 4th year as an extern/gpa determines if you will match at a location or not. The goal should be to aim for a 4.0, don't fail any boards and go the extra mile on your externships.

- How challenging is it to obtain a job in an urban location?

more competition in bigger cities

- What are the continuing education requirements?
As in?
-As a podiatrist, how is your work life balance?
I'm only a student so will let others ans this. You can also search the resident forum and read up.

 

[MD Candidate]

-Continuing education requirements- in order to maintain an active license, do you have to complete a certain number of continuing education credits or do you need to take a test every few years?
-what do you like the most about being a podiatrist and what do you like the least?

 

[DexterMorganSK]

-Continuing education requirements- in order to maintain an active license, do you have to complete a certain number of continuing education credits or do you need to take a test every few years?

State license renewals depend on the state of practice but the majority are every two years. CMEs can include anything from professional seminars, clinical research, journal clubs, cadaver lab surgeries, and many others.

 

[DPMStudent159]

Many of these schools have less than 100 spots in the program. Losing 1 student from the program potentially costs them hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost tuition money. The last thing they want is for the student to not graduate the program. Not only are they losing tuition money, but it is bringing they graduation rate down as well, making the school look bad (since there are only 9 pod schools).

They do give a lot of chances to remediate but obviously if you consistently have to remediate, clearly the field isn’t for you, and the school does not want to be graduating incompetent podiatrists into the field.

Each school likely has different policies for remediation.

As far as residency, I believe that the match rate this year was 99+%. Not all residencies are equal though, some are more superior, have more surgical training, etc, it just depends on what you are looking to focus on in the future. Also, your GPA matters a lot (as well as externship performance) since the podiatry boards are pass/fail system.

 

[Robin-jay]

Also, your GPA matters a lot (as well as externship performance) since the podiatry boards are pass/fail system.

I honestly don't know what matters for residencies.

Each school has a completely different GPA system. I heard one of the schools didn't have a single student with less than 3.4 GPA, maybe western? IDK. Could just be rumor.

Boards are pass/fail and externship performance is subjective in a way and can't be quantified.

So you have a really weird system set up, where I don't believe there really is a good way to evaluate the student. Just my opinion.

 

[GreenHousePub]

The attrition rate when I was in was 25% of the class. Schools don't care about losing students, as long as they are filling seats each year. They are for-profit businesses.

 

[amint32]

More of a random question here? But say if I wanted to focus on being a trauma/ortho podiatrist or a multi specialist or specialize in sports med etc. are there specific residencies that would be better for each of these specialities? How does that whole process work? I have done some research but each residency description seems vague to a young student like myself! Thank you!

 

[Podguy33]

More of a random question here? But say if I wanted to focus on being a trauma/ortho podiatrist or a multi specialist or specialize in sports med etc. are there specific residencies that would be better for each of these specialities? How does that whole process work? I have done some research but each residency description seems vague to a young student like myself! Thank you!

Once you’re in school they usually will have a residency guru that will point you in the direction of the right residency for what you want to do. There are also fellowship options to specialize even further if you decide that’s what you want to do.

 

[deleted1003403]

The attrition rate when I was in was 25% of the class. Schools don't care about losing students, as long as they are filling seats each year. They are for-profit businesses.

It’s still around that number at some schools.

 

[GreenHousePub]

More of a random question here? But say if I wanted to focus on being a trauma/ortho podiatrist or a multi specialist or

There is no such thing. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Once you’re in school they usually will have a residency guru that will point you in the direction of the right residency for what you want to do. There are also fellowship options to specialize even further if you decide that’s what you want to do.

What? There was no such thing back when I was in. Fellowship is only good if you 1) didn't get enough training in residency or 2) it will lead to a direct referral to a job afterwards.

 

[amint32]

@GreenHousePub okay sorry! No bubble bursted! I have actually shadowed two pods who are orthopedic only! But that’s besides the point. What I’m trying to get at is, what is the specificity of residency? Do people tend to be pod type A with residency type A and etc. thank you!

 

[deleted1003403]

He’s not a podiatrist if he is an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in the foot and ankle.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

@GreenHousePub okay sorry! No bubble bursted! I have actually shadowed two pods who are orthopedic only! But that’s besides the point. What I’m trying to get at is, what is the specificity of residency? Do people tend to be pod type A with residency type A and etc. thank you!

All of the Pod residencies are either PMSR or PMSR/RRA.
After finishing residency, you can subspecialize by doing a fellowship like in wound care or sports medicine, etc

 

[amint32]

@Osworld I understand. I was talking about a DPM who was apart of an orthopedic group. I know this rare but I guess the point I was getting at is there seems to really be not much variety within residences either PMSR or PMSR/RRA. So in order to be a DPM who works for an ortho group. Or a DPM who is a multispecialist or one who focuses in sports med. Is a fellowship the only route where you can specialize even further? Or does it not really matter since residency will encompass all of the skills/training necessary for the specialities list above and even more.

 

[HarmonicConvergence]

There are residencies that are known for somethings. You can find some that are wound heavy, trauma heavy, sports med heavy, recon heavy, peds heavy, etc compared to others. So in that since you can pick a residency that offers more of the training that you are seeking. You can then fellowship into more specifics if you choose. like the above. So yes you are able to be highly specialized podiatrist if you want. If you can find a job where you use all this extra specific training is a different story entirely.

 

[heybrother]

Depending up on how you conduct yourself in the future you may try and find a way to cater your practice towards certain groups. However, a lot of this may be marketing - to patients, through your website, to referral sources, physical therapists, school trainers, teams, etc. Healthy young people are in general a desirable market and in more populous areas you are likely to be competing with others for this cohort. Referring doctors may like the idea of referring to someone who does everything. Everyone likes things to be easy.

In regards to trauma, where do you think the trauma is detected? In general, EDs and urgent cares - if these are part of a system they are likely to refer within their own system. I recently traveled to a town about 20-30 miles from my town to thank the family medicine doctors there for their referrals and to introduce myself. One day a week an orthopedist in their hospital network comes to their clinic. The system will keep what it wants within their own network. Additionally, my personal experience is that a substantial amount of trauma is associated with - take your pick of words - the blue collar, the intoxicated, the uninsured - the Medicaid types. They just have more pathology in general. You may be very busy surgically, but on very complicated patients both from pathology, comorbidity, and non-compliance/"mental illness". One of the first ankle fractures I saw in residency was a 20 year old who jumped off a 12 wall onto a rock. Positive tox screen. Left AMA and never came back. It was already going to be a mess and it will be a bigger mess for his next surgeon.

Several years ago I met a doctor who had managed to develop an all pediatric practice. I asked him how he created this opportunity for himself - the answer was - with some difficulty. He loved what he had created, but all the other podiatrists in the area had essentially agreed to refer him their patients. Along the way as he developed/grew he stalled. His practice at that time was 50% pediatric and 50% everything else. He spoke to a mentor who told him - until you cut the other 50% - no one is going to take you seriously as a pediatric provider. The parents are going to wonder why there are still 80 year olds in your waiting room. He cut the 50% and experienced a revenue decline until he ultimately got the practice where he wanted it. You are going to have to be willing to have your front desk say - we don't take that. You'll need buy in from pediatricians/FM in the area. Other DPMs likely enjoy this cohort - why would they refer to you? You will have to be an owner/boss/partner - if you are an associated and you tell your boss you only want to see peds he's going to laugh you out the door.

All residencies are essentially claiming to offer expertise in all fields. Are they? No. A read of the CASPR page of most programs would imply that all programs are awesome, awesome, awesome. Its not the case. In fact, a program can be amazing and then lose a prominent surgeon and lose a substantial amount of its caseload. Additionally, residents are focused on surgery and I've personally seen quite a few patients who were overtreated. MRI can be used to create all manner of reconstructions for patients who often could have walked their way to a recover. The goal is to do right by people, but being skeptical/negative - the goal of many residents is to generate cases to build surgical skill/graduate. The needs of the patient are not always served by the needs of the resident.

Some programs may have a specific focus that they may be known for. In general, the goal is to find a solid program that gives good surgical expertise in everything so that hopefully you feel comfortable doing or growing into doing most things. Some of the suggestions above me are that certain programs are known to be the best at certain things. When you ultimately start the process you may find it more difficult to get guidance in this regard with a handful of programs being known for everything. I personally think you'll just have to focus on being the best you can be in general and hopefully all those skills will transfer to what you want to do. That said - at some point you will go to ACFAS and what you will realize after 4th year is a lot of what is being discussed isn't being done most places. I saw zero TARS during my 4th year. A few programs I visited have since started trying to do them. I saw zero of the more complicated OCD therapies - saw quite a few microfractures. I've spoken to friends and many didn't get any exposure to the exotics. Fellowship may or may not fill that gap. I've spoken to a few friends in fellowship and the experiences are variable.

Find a solid program, try to use it open the doors you want. Realize that it will be work.

 

[amint32]

Thank you all! I’m sorry if it took a few posts to get at what I was actually asking for! Sorry if I was unclear! Thanks all

 

[RN007]

I honestly don't know what matters for residencies.

Each school has a completely different GPA system. I heard one of the schools didn't have a single student with less than 3.4 GPA, maybe western? IDK. Could just be rumor.

Boards are pass/fail and externship performance is subjective in a way and can't be quantified.

So you have a really weird system set up, where I don't believe there really is a good way to evaluate the student. Just my opinion.

Hello,

I am a current first year at Western and I can assure you that the school looks at applicants holistically, from applications to interviews. The 3.4 GPA might have been the average of the incoming class at the time, but averages change and there is no cut off number. Needless to say, the program is still very rigorous as our school teaches you not only how to be a great podiatrist, but also a great physician with our emphasis on interprofessional learning with DO students. Boards are pass/fail, which makes GPA very important and what post grad residencies look for, in addition to class rank, extracurriculars, leadership, research, volunteering, etc. It is competitive to match into specific residencies. However, Western has a 100% residency match rate, so not matching into a program is something people don't have to worry about as long as they do their best.

 

[PodCali]

Hello,

I am looking into becoming a podiatrist and had a few questions regarding the profession:
-how high is the attrition rate? for example, for medical school, I'm learning that once your in, the attrition is low. However, for pharmacy the attrition is pretty high. How is the podiatry field? Do podiatry programs word toward retaining their candidates or are they cut throat with their grading?

Current Student @ Western - Western's Podiatry program has a curriculum that focuses on making you the strongest physician/surgeon podiatrist you can be. The curriculum, as would be expected from any other medical school, requires hard work and dedication. Western is not 'cut-throat' with grading as the curriculum is clearly outlined at the requirements for passing in each syllabus. If one does not meet the threshold, they are given chances to retake a test for a passing grade in the end of the course and so on. There are many ways Western helps its students that need it - from tutoring options, to 1 on 1 test review with test-taking experts at the LEAD office that can go thru things you may be doing on your tests such as changing answers or rushing towards the end.


-How saturated is the job market?
there are many residency spots available to incoming students when one looks at the US as a whole.


Thanks!

 

[Robin-jay]

Hello,

I am a current first year at Western and I can assure you that the school looks at applicants holistically, from applications to interviews. The 3.4 GPA might have been the average of the incoming class at the time, but averages change and there is no cut off number. Needless to say, the program is still very rigorous as our school teaches you not only how to be a great podiatrist, but also a great physician with our emphasis on interprofessional learning with DO students. Boards are pass/fail, which makes GPA very important and what post grad residencies look for, in addition to class rank, extracurriculars, leadership, research, volunteering, etc. It is competitive to match into specific residencies. However, Western has a 100% residency match rate, so not matching into a program is something people don't have to worry about as long as they do their best.

I mean mostly the quantification of pod med student to residency, not so much school acceptance.