Podiatry Residency Pay

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God. Once again I am blown away at the anger and venom of some of the posts. I admit that I do not know much about podiatry. But it seems that the people in training are really unhappy.

Is it true that residencies only pay 10K/yr and that you have to get a 2nd job?

How can a field like this survive if the applicants are hoodwinked, the students are abused, and the residency training is so poor?

What's the payoff? It doesn't seem like financial security is it... And "cutting toenails" sounds horrible after so much training and expense.... 150K spent and 8 years invested just to get a 10K/yr residency and no job prospects?

Why would anyone do this?

Damn. That is depressing.

 

[Temple1st]

The lowest residencies are $0.00 per year (not a typo). The highest for 2002 I think was $57,000.00 per year. You can access the info on the web freely. $10,000 is common however, I think the average is around $27,000.00/year. And no there doesn't seem to be enough jobs. I keep hearing you have to network and market yourself. Heck, if I was an excellent bussiness man I wouldn't be in school!

I recently talked to former grads of my school. One graduated 3 years ago and has never found a job! She told me that out of the 6 she finished residency with 5 never found work. Now she teaches at a tech school! One graduated in 1983 and said he would never reccommend this profession to his children. I talked to some classmates about these concerns. Their reply was that these people don't apply themselves, they are poor at business and finance. I'm starting to feel like the emporer with his new clothes. My personal observations are that students have all the answers untill they graduate then they try to warn the next wave of failures. But of course we will never listen. Because we know the right combination. Or so we think. Maybe after a few years those same classmates of mine will be warning the class of 2010.

 

[Toejam]

Sadly, it's true. I don't know if it's any better than when I was a student, but it was pretty abysmal 4 years ago.

I might be the person you are referring to when you say making 10k plus having to work on the side. I made that much at L.A. County General in 1998-99 and had to wait tables (beeper and all) on the weekends (when I was allowed to leave at 5:00 PM from the hospital). The President of my class didn't match with any type of residency and, out of desperation, took an UNFUNDED position in Arizona. He also has a wife and two kids. Nice. These stories and many others are part of the wreckage that podiatry causes.

Back in 1998, there were A LOT of "residencies" that paid less than 18k per year. A LOT. 4 years ago there wasn't a single one that paid any higher than 36k. There were many that paid nothing. And, in a lot of the POR's, PPMR's and RPR's, part of your "training" would be to go around to nursing homes and private homes to cut nails (while the attending makes money). I don't know about you, but I can only subjugate my dignity only so much.

So, you're wondering why someone would want to enter this profession if it seems like an enormous mistake?? Well, this is my opinion and only my opinion, but...

I feel that at least 98 to 99% of all podiatry students are in podiatry school because they COULD NOT GET INTO DO OR MD SCHOOL. In fact, when I say 98 to 99% what I'm really saying is 100%, but I'm so stinking PC I can't bring myself to admit it! It's really that simple. And, to compound this mistake, they do not know enough about the profession and the difficulties in making a living. They might do some research, but it's usually through books and talking to recruiters, which do not give you a realistic picture. Now, obviously, anyone who would want to spend up to 200k for an education and be brutalized in the process must be interested in something, right? My feeling is that the vast, vast majority of pod students believe what they want to believe about podiatry AND they want to be called "doctor". It's as simple as that. They are absolutely desperate to be a doctor (for whatever reason) and, when they cannot gain admission to a legitimate MD or DO school in the States, they read about podiatry, think that's it's a good second choice and dive right in. Sure, you'll be CALLED doctor, but the reality of the life you are likely to lead is quite different.

I'm a DPM and I've had enough. Enough of everything podiatry. I got accepted to an osteopathic school in Pomona, CA and I'm starting next fall. I can't tell you how freakin' ecstatic I am that I'm not going to die a podiatrist!! I don't care how much money I make as a DO. That's not what it's all about. It's all about what your dream was (and is) and achieving it. And, I would venture to guess that very, very few podiatry students had a "dream" to become a podiatrist and not an orthopedic surgeon or internist.

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Hey Toejam,

Its funny you mention the MD/DO envy status of DPMs. I can't speak on the issue directly. I love my podiatriast. She fixed my ingrown toenails really good . I just wanted to mention that I have a family friend who is a DPM. He no longer practices because he can make more money running a medical group as a paper pusher. He is one of the reasons that I became a die hard Pre DO student. A few years back, at a party, he sat me down and spent a good two hours trying to convince me not to go to DO school. He told me that they get no respect, they make less money, yada yada yada. He said that they recently had an opening in their medical group and a few DOs applied for the position. He said that while they had great references, he wasn't so sure about hiring them because of their "second rate" status. Well I saw him this past easter and said, "oh you're applying to DO schools right?" I replied with an affirmative and he replied, "Oh we have a DO in the group, he's one of the best doctors I've met." It's amazing how your outlook can change when you wipe the dirt off of your glasses.

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with the thread, but I'm bored and I felt like typing.

WBDO

 

[cg2a93]

Congrats on getting into DO school Dr. Wright.
I think it is absolutely sad that some of you feel that bashing podiatry to future Podiatrist and other future health professionals is needed. Even if that were true that 99% of pod student chose podiatry because they couldnt get into MD or DO school (which is just not true) how is this constructive, sounds to me like your just putting salt in the wound(way to be compassionate doctors, no wonder your miserable, its not your profesion thats your problem its your personality or lack there of).
To all you future pods, all I can say to you is do your homework. Dont make your desicion base on poster who you cant see and talk too. Most of the people who bash podiatry on this forum are people who have no idea what podiatry is or does they are just posting because they are jumping on the bandwagon. Some of the negative are true, but they can apply to and health proffesion. Just question what some of what Toe jam has written then go, is most of what he saying subjective? Did he do a study on all of the 15,000 Pods and new pods out there or is he making assumption about a whole profession based on his frustrations? His salary for residency was $10,000 a year, but is that a norm(I think not, its not hard to get these figures just do some research).
RESPECT IS NOT GIVEN IT IS EARNED. IF YOU COMMAND RESPECT YOU WILL GET IT. If you think a MD of DO is going to automatically get you respect, I got a bridge I am selling.
Now lets talk FACTS.
FACTS
1. There are more surgical spots than ever.
2. Average resdency pays over 30 grand a year
3. Pods are doing more ankle proceedures than ever, so dont let these guys tell you all you will do is chip and clip, PM mag has a list of the most common pod procedures(most of us wont get all interesting trauma,out there but if you work hard enough and get the training you will get your share)
4. Salaries have increased for pods although medicare reimbursements have decreased for all specialties ref😛M mag coming out in feb/03
5. pods are on staff at more hospitals than ever
6. scopes of practice have increased in more than 10 states in the last 5 years and more are coming( keep in mind podiatry is a small profession with limited funds and their opponents have limitless funds)
.
7. enrollement increased this past year and is on tract to increase again this year
8. You will get a good education no matter what school you attend if you want one the resources are there you just have to take them and utilize them
All of what I posted are facts not subjective and can be proven. If you are truly interested you can find all of this out on your own not through hear say.
Every profession has its disgruntled few such as podiatry, its just that podiatries disgruntled few post on the internet happy pods are to busy being successful.

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

cg2a93,

I hope none of your anger and resentment was towards me, I meant no disrespect and actually have huge amounts of respect for my podiatrist, and the field in general. Actually, every podiatrist I know drives a $50,000+ car, so I think its fair to say that they are doing well. I was simply telling a story that I thought was relevent to the topic being discussed.

WBDO

 

[Toejam]

Ahhh...cg

Thanks for the congrats.

My comment on pod students entering pod school because they couldn't get into MD or DO school was in reference to the original poster's question. I wasn't aiming for constructive criticism. Just my opinion. I've asked many times why someone would choose pod school over MD or DO school and have yet to read an adequate reason. Why would someone want to spend the same amount of money and, in many cases, (due to state-funded medical schools) much, much more only to have far less earning potential for the 1st several years, have no option for government loan repayment, make much less on average in residency, have more explaining to do to the public, have less respect from insurers and fellow health providers, have a limited medical license, have the possibility of incomplete training, have almost no job opportunities after residency, be a part of the highest default group among doctors, be a part of a profession with next to no clout politically, have no ability to use your license overseas, have much more difficulty getting on health plans, etc, etc.????? My only conclusion since nobody can come up with anything else even remotely reasonable is that they couldn't get into MD or DO school, yet still wanted to be doctors. If it isn't 99% then explain to me why. And, please, don't feed me the standard podiatry rhetoric about "baby boomers", "time with family" and "increase in sports". That's all BS.

By the way, personal assaults only serve to demonstrate your immaturity. Why get personal when you've never met me?

I agree that the key is doing your homework and making ABSOLUTELY SURE that you want to be a podiatrist and nothing but a podiatrist for the rest of your life. DO NOT ENTER PODIATRY SCHOOL AS A SECOND OR THIRD CHOICE TO MD OR DO SCHOOL.

Most of the people (I'd say almost all of the people) who are critical of podiatry are podiatrists. Goldenpheasant is, I am, two of my colleagues who post on this board and the podiatry forum are, Dr. Rich Wilner is, "3 years out" is and there are many others. Why would a student be critical of podiatry? They aren't DPM's yet!! I protected podiatry when I was a student, too. I got tired of defending it after a couple of years, though, and began to change my story to either shorten the explanation or just agree with the criticism.

I've also noticed that just about everyone who takes the time to post on these forums and have no connection to podiatry pretty much universally say that they love their podiatrists or that their podiatrists get a lot of respect. I agree for the most part. I have no gripe whatsoever with actual DPM's. I've said this over and over. Most are very competent and can do things much better than other physicians. The respect thing is hard to define. Most of the time it isn't very overt. Your patients certainly respect you. The other doctors, nurses, PA's, etc., though, are mostly suspicious of your qualifications. Since you aren't a practicing DPM you wouldn't know. If you plan on practicing in Bumf#@k Backwoods, USA you probably won't encounter much of that.

Of course most of what I'm saying is subjective. I'll let you know when I make a statement that requires definitive proof. Most of my comments are based on personal experience, the experience of my classmates and colleagues, speaking with podiatry faculty, speaking with insurers, reading articles, reading podiatry boards then checking for veracity, etc. You may or may not be able to deduce from my posts that I have a modicum of intelligence and just might be a curious person.

Let me ask you this. Why would someone subject themselves to another round of medical school if there wasn't something seriously wrong with podiatry? I have read posts from two docs who did just that. And, I'm the third. Also, why do you suppose that I would go to this immense trouble of posting these thoughts if I didn't feel strongly enough about it? I'm not stupid enough to say that podiatry sucks and that nobody can make a living. Obviously, thousands can and do. The fact is, however, that for the amount of time, effort and money you spend going through the process, the payoff (and I don't necessarily mean money) is dicey at best. You'll have to take my word for it when I say that every single one of my colleagues is unhappy and either wishes they hadn't done it or that they went to MD or DO school. That's just a subjective comment, though, so you'll have to excuse me.

MD's get instant respect (unless the person doesn't respect doctors). DO's get almost instant respect (only ignorance prevents them from getting full respect right away). Both doctors, however, are known far better as internists, thoracic surgeons, ER docs, pediatricians, etc., which means "doctor" to everyone. A podiatrist is a podiatrist and means "podatrist" to everyone. Did you see the Seinfeld episode that included a DPM as one of the characters? That was very accurate.

Let's discuss your facts:

More surgical spots? Probably, but there still aren't enough for everyone, which just extends the embarassment that is podiatry "training" for one more year. How long do you suppose it's going to take the the tiny universe of podiatry to guarantee FULL TRAINING for all of its students? They've been wringing their hands over this issue for the last 10 or 15 years. I'm sure you're aware that even with 2 years of surgical training, it's still hard to find work. I have several friends who can attest to that. There are only 300-400 students to work with this year! I can't even begin to tell you how pathetic this is. Do you think that the schools even attempt to tell their prospective applicants that they may not be adequately trained to make a living when they finish? They sure omitted that information when I signed up.

Average residency pays over 30k? Show me the proof. If it's true, that's great. I'm pretty sure that there are still residencies that pay zip, though.

How do you know that pods are doing more ankle procedures than ever? That's a pretty dubious statement. If you mean since chiropody, you're right. Fact is that only a small fraction of DPM's do anything close to the ankle. That's a fact. And the other fact is that the vast majority of DPM's do non-surgical stuff as their primary means of income. That's also a fact. There is literally a handful of DPM's who do trauma on any kind of basis.

An increase in salaries? When you say "salaries" I think many would be mislead into thinking that some other entity is paying for your services. Most DPM's work for themselves and no matter how you want to word it, the first 5 years are horrendous for most. It was published this year or last that the average first year income for a surgically trained DPM was about 42k. For a non-surgically trained DPM it was about 35k. Even if that's net income, it still is less than any normal person can live on with student loans, the extra self-employment taxes that you need to pay (are you aware of that?), the overhead, the malpractice insurance, the health insurance, etc. I guess it is possible if you live in a car.

Medicare is also eager to eliminate or sharply curtail reimbursements for nail debridement. Calluses are down the road. In your student fantasies you may be thinking that you won't be doing much of that, but you would be wrong. Everyone does it and it normally comprises a great deal of your income.

More pods on staff? Never heard of that stat, but enlighten me on where you read this.

Scope of practice? Do you mean increasing the scope from the tight restrictions that were placed before? A podiatrist, in theory, should have a license to practice from the ankle down and other structures that have a direct relationship with the function of the foot. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that some states have increased the scope to include ankles, which should have never been denied in the 1st place.

Enrollment increase? From last year? It's been steadily declining in the past 5 years. How much was the increase? The fact remains that there are not enough applicants. Another embarassment. What do you mean "on tract to increase again this year"? Why would that be?

Here's what I would advise for any student or a pre-pod person. Talk to as many DPM's as you can. Get a good sampling (some that are fresh out of residency, some that are 3-5 years out, some that are 10 and some that are ancient). If you find 40 or 50, that might be enough to make it statistically relevant. Ask them what it's like to practice podiatry. Ask them if they would go to pod school today. Ask them what their income is and how they work for it. Ask them what it was like for the 1st 5 years. Ask them how much their tuition was.

I have 5 friends in my area who graduated with me. All of them have more training than me. None of them have done a single surgery on their own (4 of them haven't done any). None of them grosses over 75k. All of them do chip and clip daily. One of them is satisfied.

I know that you and others tend to read my posts and think that I'm seriously disgruntled or I'm bashing podiatry. Well, to some extent you're right. When I get this hot, though, it's usually in response to posts like yours (cg) that purport to know things without any direct experience. I do have a big grudge against podiatry. I got very little for my investment. It was my fault, however, for accepting admission when I didn't know enough about it. What bothers me the most is how untruthful the whole system is (the schools, the organizations) and how they just kept "spinning" the facts everytime we felt uneasy as students or residents. Nothing they said was true. You only see the truth when you're thrown out of the nest.

 

[cg2a93]

I cant debate with you toejam because you are ignorant to the facts. If you go to the apma website( oh you cant, because your not a member) or even go to PM magazine and you can varify my facts.
Please dont assume you know my experience with Podiatry. if you only graduated in the 90s then I have about 15 or more years of experiece with this profession than you being that I come from a family of pods and know this profession in and out.
Good luck with your new profession hopefully you will be more of a asset to your new profession than you were to your old one.
I hope it doesnt come as to big of a shock when you find the grass isnt as green as you think when you get over there.

Good riddins to the complainers and whiners. I hope now we can get some potential doctors who know that podiatry is not a cake walk, and they may have to be the ones who blaze new trails.
Podiatry did not start off as mainstream medicine and within the past couple of decades it is trying to integrate. To anyone who has an idea about life in general you should know how people are with others they dont know much about. Leary, is what main streamedicine is of podiatry, why because they dont know much about it being that there are roughly only 14000 pods in the country with the majority being close to the respective schools.
Ask any pod who practice back in the day how far this profession has come and they will tell you when they didnt even have prescription privileges or were not able to do surgery. Things have come a long way since those time and continue to get better as time goes on. It takes time and money which the ama has plenty of .
People (like toejam) complain about issues like residency or parity, but have no idea what it takes to make those thing become reality all they know is that its supposed to be there. Those same people are the ones who dont support their Organizations that fight for legislation for parity or open hospital so we can have training programs or privileges.
These are the same people that dont realize in order for parity or scope issues to become law or be addressed with the insurance companies we need to have support from the doctors in the profession. These same people dont realize that numbers talk not whining.
I guaruntee Toejam doesnt have a clue how a residency is started or how legislation is enacted. Nor does he care how those prescriptive privleges he has or the ability for him to make 6 figures came about.
Uninformed decision is what toejam has made when entered pod school(from his own admission), so why would you listen to what he has to say. He cant even authenticate what Ive posted in the past as the truth cause he doent have the know how or resources because he has been a irresponsible podiatrist when it comes to supporting his chosen profession. Ask him what page of the apma new for this month contains the article stating that enrollement has increase this year. I bet he cant unless he borrows a copy from someone because they only send copies to MEMBERS. He wouldnt know that pods are doing more and more ankle and lower leg procedures because the only experience he has is his own or the 20 or so docs he knows which he bases his descions on about the other 14000 other pods out there on.How would he know that pods are doing more procedures or if they werent he doesnt have acess to the literature or he just doesnt read it? You say they arent because your gut tells you so(real scientific)?
Ask what has he done to rectify his residency only paying ten grand a year. Has he even wrote letter. He states he has a job that he was lucky to get. Has he tried to help new grads by trying to get another slot or even steering them in the right direction? Im sorry toejam if you think I am getting personal with you, but you put yourself out there.
Do you even know the begining of osteopathic medicine do you think they got where they are by whining or bashing their profession on the internet. I am sure those osteopaths who blazed those trails would be proud of you . Try reading "The DO's by Gevitzs and see how the profession you are about to enter started and see how similar its begining is to Podiatry maybe you will learn something and stop being a 40 something year old taker/whiner.
Good luck

 

[tkim]

Originally posted by cg2a93

Do you even know the begining of osteopathic medicine do you think they got where they are by whining or bashing their profession on the internet. I am sure those osteopaths who blazed those trails would be proud of you . Try reading "The DO's by Gevitzs and see how the profession you are about to enter started and see how similar its begining is to Podiatry maybe you will learn something and stop being a 40 something year old taker/whiner.
Good luck

I've read Gevitz, but I don't see the parallels between podiatry and osteopathy. Could you just give me a quick couple of points to work on?

- Tae

 

[cg2a93]

I am comparing the path Osteopathy took in becoming a part of mainstream medicine as podiatry is doing now.
"Despite suspicion , ridicule, and outright opposition from organized medicine,..." this is a quote from the book. Podiatry has this same problem today. The only way to combat this problem is to put out the best train doctors possible. Similar to how Osteopathic med has. The main problem we face is that we have so much fewer number than DOs, MDs and insurance giants they are not going to give up their turf without a fight.
Its not because of our training its because of money. Their are some insurers that will pay a MD more than a DPM for the same procedure. The only way we can combat this injustice is to sue(for that you need money) or enact legislation(for that you need money and people who vote).
I have been to many legislation days and it is ashame how many DPMs actually show up. You cant get things done without money or bodies. Thats why when I hear so called pods who have jobs and are making good money bitch and groan it get under my skin.

 

[Toejam]

Life must be pretty miserable for you, cg if you feel the need to lash out at anonymous people on the internet. Are you one of those insecure people who pop a vein while they drive, too?

"a family of pods and know this profession in and out"???? If this is true, then you would have provided me with the REAL facts to back up your idiotic comments (since you're apparently a member of that mega powerful organization called the APMA). I seriously doubt that you know as many DPM's, MD's and DO's as I do, but go ahead and pad your facts if you'd like. Remember, I happen to work in this field while you don't.

The grass will be greener simply by virtue of the fact that I will be a PHYSICIAN and nobody will question my credentials. There are at least a dozen more reasons why I won't be suffering anymore grass rot as a DO, but I'll save those for later if you're interested.

I could really give a rat's ass how far this profession has come. I'm talking about the here and now, which you're avoiding.

As far as residencies and professional parity, any normal-minded person (toejam) would expect to be trained as a podiatrist and not a high tech detritus remover. This is only the uppermost tip of the rapidly melting iceberg of podiatry, but I've detailed the pitfalls of this profession so many times, I think I'm going to stroke out if I do it again.

You'd better think again about your "guarantees". I am aware of how legislation is enacted AND how a residency gets started.

And what is this gibberish?

"He cant even authenticate what Ive posted in the past as the truth cause he doent have the know how or resources because he has been a irresponsible podiatrist when it comes to supporting his chosen profession."

This barely makes grammatical sense! If you're going to claim the "truth" on any of your immature comments, you'd best back them up with verifiable facts. At least I preface my comments with the proviso that they are my opinion.

Enrollment has increased this year? Maybe, but this is still a political spin statement. The fact remains that the schools do not have enough applicants to fill the slots and, even if they did, they clearly don't have enough COMPETITIVE applicants.

By the way, do you think it's wise to believe everything that the APMA tells you? Can't you imagine that they may have a separate agenda that may preclude them from telling the exact truth 100% of the time? But I know how you're thinking. I was once a pod student, too who wanted to believe every positive thing I heard.

And another thing, Princess, I organized and led a strike against Los Angeles County/USC Medical Center asking for an increase in wage. We carried picket signs, had other MD residents and allied health students join us and were covered by local radio. I even met with the Los Angeles City Council to detail our plight. You know what their response was? Podiatry was expendable and they discontinued the residency. Nice respect.

I've read two books on the origins of osteopathic medicine as well as innumerable web articles. Again, you're making infantile assertions about someone you've never met and know nothing about.

The beginnings of osteopathic medicine and podiatry are not similar at all. Andrew Taylor Still was an MD and was interested in modifying and improving what he felt was an inadequate and, oftentimes, barbaric approach to medicine. In other words, Doctor's of Osteopathic Medicine had their initial roots in legitimate medicine. Podiatry, on the other hand, began as chiropody, which was never anywhere close to being a legitimate branch of medicine. Not to disparage either practice, but the beginnings of both styles of diagnosis and treatment are markedly dissimilar. If you took the time to actually read ALL of my posts, you'd know that I'm not bashing DPM's, but only the archaic and ineffective system that breeds them. I also criticize my school (CCPM) and my residency, which I clearly know a lot about.

You should take some advice from efs. He disagrees with almost everything I say, but he has the intelligence and maturity to discuss my points in a constructive way and doesn't feel the need to spit his pacifier out and scream insults and ignorant statements as you do.

 

[cg2a93]

Again, good luck in Med school and good riddins. Its not even worth debating with you.
CG

 

[cg2a93]

I consider some of the stuggles DOs had in becoming accepted by mainstream medicine similar to some of the struggles pods are having now.

 

[efs]

Toejam,

Thanks for the nice comments (I don't really have a pacifier though.)
I also don't really disagree with you on everything. Just a lot of things, and it is mostly just a differing point of view. I do enjoy reading your comments even if I don't completely agree.

 

[Toejam]

Just admit that you can't debate with me, cg and we can all go home.

 

[XENON-RAMZ]

 

[edrfernandez]

Toejam, I could't agree with you more. You wrote what i consider the best post regarding the truth about podiatry.
I to fell into the trap two years ago, I remember it as it was yesterday. I was a second year podiatry student, i worked part time in a hospital until i met a podiatrist who was admitted to the ER room. What he had to tell me opened my eyes and made me aware of the truth around podiatry. First of all, he graduated from podiatry school 8 years ago. His net income has never gone over
$45,000. He defaulted on his student loans because he colud barly make a living. Does this seem right to any of you out there.
That's exactly what i thought. BY the way, his office iss his car!!!
Which is an old car. One last thing, O asked him how were your grades in school. He showed me a copy of his final transcripeds
3.8 gpa. Maybe he was a bad student. I am now a second year medical student about to become a "real doctor"

 

[cg2a93]

Good luck with becoming a "real doctor".

 

[ItsGavinC]

The profession or podiatry is about as dead as the podiatry forum is here.

Time to close down his forum, eh?

 

[Mouseman]

Does anyone know anything about the students that come out of Temple? My co-worker is going there next year and Im thinking about trying to talk him out of it. Advice?

 

[ussdfiant]

Originally posted by Mouseman
Does anyone know anything about the students that come out of Temple? My co-worker is going there next year and Im thinking about trying to talk him out of it. Advice?

I was going to go there, but then I came to my senses, took a year off and got into Temple's actual medical school.

 

[elperro]

Toejam, everything you said about WHY students go to pod school is right on the mark. I was a pre-med a couple of years ago and didn't get into "real" medical school the first time around. Panic-stricken, I looked to podiatry for the all of the reasons you stated. The brochures and school websites were all seemingly informative and helpful. But I soon found out that all of what they feed pre-meds is propaganda and completely false. Luckily, I read some articles outlining the difficulties that pod schools and the professionals who graduate from them are having and have completely turned away. I was lucky, I'm sorry that so many of you had to go through so many bad experiences. I think that when cg starts clipping and chipping all day long, he might start to think differently. For now, he can bask in the light of his perceptions.
Good luck!

 

[Toejam]

Thanks, Dog

Going to pod school was my fault. I didn't do nearly enough research. But, in the end, I think it was a good thing to do. I mean, I couldn't get into DO or MD school 10 years ago for whatever reason, but now that I have my DPM and some experience, I'm all of a sudden marketable!

 

[cg2a93]

El perro, thanks for the positive vibes and the wish for a successful future for me. I feel the love.
BTW I dont mind cutting nails, it is a great service to my DM & PVD patients.

 

[edrfernandez]

Let me tell you guys, I WASTED $100,000 in podiatry
school. I like to think that I have some type of street smarts being that I basically grew up there, but i never thought that I would let someone steal this much money. But you know what, it happened. I was blinded by the fact that I wanted to be a "real doctor" and they preyed upon that. I got caught in there trap.
But, luckly I broke threw there net and got out in my second year before they loaded me up to there boat. Please, stay out of podiatry, don't be a sardine.

 

[cg2a93]

Wow ed, Podiatry school is expensive $100,000 in 2 yrs!

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Podiatry residencies pay very well. Most have pay-equity with residents of other specialities.

To look up the all the approved residencies and their pay:

http://www.aacpm.org/residencies/casprcrip.asp

Click on "2004 CASPR Directory of Podiatric Residencies"

I'm a first year resident and make $50,000.

 

[thelost1]

Now lets talk FACTS.
FACTS
4. Salaries have increased for pods although medicare reimbursements have decreased for all specialties ref😛M mag coming out in feb/03

I beg to differ.

8. You will get a good education no matter what school you attend if you want one the resources are there you just have to take them and utilize them

The following is not true as it would pertain to the California School, Pods are to die out because of where the schools are lacking.

 

[docoffoot]

Reading all the negative comments is funny. It is what you make of it. I got into both medical and podiatry school and choose podiatry because all the doctors I worked with at the hospital while in college told me not to go into medicine except the podiatrist.

I am currently in residency and make 2,000 more a year than the medicine interns and next year I will make 4,000 more because one of my good friends is in the medicine program and we talk salary all the time.

When it comes to surgery we see all foot and ankle problems to the tibial tuberosity. It is funny to read about chip and clip because we have 3 nurses that do that for us because of how large our clinics are and how long a wait it is to get into them so for non surgical or non acute care they get sent to another clinic where pallative care can be done.

I am sorry to read about people having to work while in residency, maybe you did not match the right program because the only people I know doing something like that should not even have a residency and will only be doing chip and clip for there careers.

 

[thelost1]

If you care about this person talk them out of this narsasistic (sp) profession where you are a glorifird nurse with less pay.

 

[dpmdoc]

Everyone has a right to express their opinion. There are a lot of opinions being expressed good and bad here. If you want cold hard facts about podiatry, contact the apma or a local podiatrist. If you want to know about a school, contact the school and ask to talk to a student. I served as a student ambassador for my school, and I was honest with people. They told us to just answer their questions and give our real opinions and that is what I did. And of course, don't just rely on one source to make a decision as important as your profession. Good luck. Try: www.apma.org or go to www.aacpm.org/contactpod/program.asp

 

[spodok]

I'm a first year resident and make $50,000.

Not according to the article in the North Missourian. You have not even yet graduated. You claimed to have attended Des Moines University Medical School, I am having some trouble locating this school. Why do you make these claims?

Are you a Podiatrist? If so, why claim you went to Medical School?

 

[box29]

Des Moines University is a health sciences university that has a College of Osteopathic Medicine and College of Podiatric Medicine along with the college of health sciences. Here is the link:

http://www.dmu.edu/index.htm

 

[spodok]

It is funny to read about chip and clip because we have 3 nurses that do that for us

What state are you in? How can nurses do that?....I mean legally? Do you know what you are actually saying?

Can you bill Medicare or Insurance companies if you have "3 nurses that do that for us"?

Are you saying that all those years in Podiatry school to learn proper foot care is for nurses to do the work? This goes against what I was taught what a Podiatrist is.

Maybe I am incorrect, but is that legal?

 

[aphistis]

What state are you in? How can nurses do that?....I mean legally? Do you know what you are actually saying?

Can you bill Medicare or Insurance companies if you have "3 nurses that do that for us"?

Are you saying that all those years in Podiatry school to learn proper foot care is for nurses to do the work? This goes against what I was taught what a Podiatrist is.

Maybe I am incorrect, but is that legal?

In fairness, though, I have every intention of employing a hygienist or two, like most dentists, to handle routine hygiene & periodontal maintenance for patients. Does that mean the perio & hygiene knowledge I'm picking up is useless? Not at all; since I'll ultimately be culpable for any malpractice, I still have to approve everything they do. Having them around simply allows me to devote greater time to the more specialized dental procedures that nobody else in the office is trained to perform. In my opinion (which is worth approximately what you've paid for it), it's qualitatively no different from having a PA, nurse, or student take an H&P instead of requiring a licensed physician, and I don't think anybody can reasonably object to those scenarios.

 

[jconway]

Not according to the article in the North Missourian. You have not even yet graduated. You claimed to have attended Des Moines University Medical School, I am having some trouble locating this school. Why do you make these claims?

Are you a Podiatrist? If so, why claim you went to Medical School?

spodok
seriously...
what in the hell is wrong with you?
I read that arcticle in the North Missourian
I am glad you pointed it out to me

😉

heres the link for all of you who feel like checking it out:
http://apps.northwestmissouri.com/ClientServices/DisplayNews.asp?showfilename=59154&pubcode=GNM

it says very clearly that Dr. Rogers is a DPM who has been accepted to a NY residency program and will graduate at the end of this month...
thus, his claim that he is a first year resident is completely valid given that he has already been accepted to the program....

SPODOK, quit trying to pawn yourself off as the podiatric policeman, you just sound ridiculous and your whole angle of attack has become more and more obvious with every single one of your posts

its funny how that arcticle makes mention of all of Dr. Rogers' other accomplishments, like externing at the MAYO clinic under a world famous neurologist, and being published numerous times.... yet, you of course, disregard all of that in an attempt to make him and everyone else in podiatry look bad...

hey SPODOK....
50 bucks says this Dr. Rogers' list of accomplishments is wwwwaaaayyy longer than yours(probably due in large part to the fact that your some disgruntled premed)

-j

 

[dpmdoc]

Good discusion on nurses etc. Both sides have some interesting points. It comes down to how you want to run your practice. In pod school/residency, or dental or medical or DO, we are trained to treat the patient. That doesn't neccessarily mean that we are technicions. I am not aware of any laws that make it illegal for nurses to trim nails, and if you can hire someone to do it, good for you. It frees you up to manage the patient and concern yourself with their DM or whatever the case may be. It can also save you time. That is not to say that I don't think a pod shoudn't trim nails, but if you can find someone to help with the routine care, great.
I have to intercede for diabeticfootdr. I know Lee and he is a forth year student that graduates next weekend from the College of Podiatric Medicine and Surgery at Des Moines University. He does have the residency that he described and that is the pay. One more thing. Dr Rogers is a very accomplished student and now resident. I have learned many things from him, and someday you will read a lot about his work in diabetes care. Good luck Dr Rogers 👍

 

[spodok]

spodok
seriously...
what in the hell is wrong with you?
I read that arcticle in the North Missourian
I am glad you pointed it out to me

😉

heres the link for all of you who feel like checking it out:
http://apps.northwestmissouri.com/ClientServices/DisplayNews.asp?showfilename=59154&pubcode=GNM

SPODOK, quit trying to pawn yourself off as the podiatric policeman, you just sound ridiculous and your whole angle of attack has become more and more obvious with every single one of your posts



-j

Podiatric policeman? Angle of attack?

According to his article he didn't yet graduate from a medical school that doesn't exist. (Since when do Medical schools give out Podiatry diplomas anyway?) I am the bad guy? I just pointed out the facts. This guy is posting advice here. You must think very little of my profession and its future to endorse this kind of behavior.

You seem to have a problem with truth and facts.
But your spelling and grammer have improved! Did you find someone to do that awful thing you wanted me to do?

 

[box29]

Just a side note...Dr. William M. Scholl College of Podiatric Medicine at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science (aka Finch University/The Chicago Medical School) will be giving out the diploma of DPM to their students. I am not sure about Temple Univ.

 

[jconway]

Podiatric policeman? Angle of attack?

According to his article he didn't yet graduate from a medical school that doesn't exist. (Since when do Medical schools give out Podiatry diplomas anyway?) I am the bad guy? I just pointed out the facts. This guy is posting advice here. You must think very little of my profession and its future to endorse this kind of behavior.

You seem to have a problem with truth and facts.
But your spelling and grammer have improved! Did you find someone to do that awful thing you wanted me to do?

dude... ur such a joke
you want to talk facts?
all you have done is post your little b.s. messages without even one iota of proof...

several people have asked YOU where you got this info on the Podometry degree...your only reply is an omnious "...its coming..."
you have given nothing to this board but hollow rhetoric

you say DMU doesnt exist, well i got an experiment for you...type in DMU on google...guess what....the website says it exists...
drive over there and visit the place..guess what...it exists....
mail them a letter and ask them if they exist.....ill bet you they'll write back and say..."hey we exist"...
email them....they have an email address...you know why....b/c they exist
to sum this whole thing up.....DMU exists..everyone knows DMU exists.....you know DMU exists...why are you harping on these ridiculous points????

you falsely represent an arcticle on the web to make it look like you have some "bombshell evidence"...but you're full of it...anyone who reads that arcticle can see that you're full of it

podiatry is not "your profession"... i think very highly of podiatry...but i think very little of you...(you see that whole inverse relationship going on here right?? Thus negating the idea of "podiatry" and "spodok's profession" being one and the same thing)

every time you post your garbage..someone refutes it...and all you do is say the say thing over and over again without one solid rebuttal.....

unless you can substantiate anything you say....SHUTUP...b/c really all you are doing is lying to people and misleading people....
it makes me cringe to think that people come on to this board looking to gain insight...and they see people like you claiming to be a podiatrist, preaching rapture, and misquoting authors to make yourself sound legitimate

....your obviosly not a podiatrist.....your obviously not an MD/DO/or DDS, your obviously not a smart person....period

but yet you claim to be b/c you have no friends and no better outlet for yourself...you want some advice..go on "Craig's list" and find yourself a friend for the evening...pay whoever it is double what they usually get b/c they deserve it if they'll make it the night with you

please...pretty please with a cherry on top...go away....every time i read your posts i feel like im getting eye cancer

-j

p.s.
i did find someone to do that thing i told you to do...and you know what....she says shes very disapointed in you
😀

 

[spodok]

dude... ur such a joke
you want to talk facts?

you say DMU doesnt exist, well i got an experiment for you...type in DMU on google...guess what....the website says it exists...
drive over there and visit the place..guess what...it exists....
mail them a letter and ask them if they exist.....ill bet you they'll write back and say..."hey we exist"...
email them....they have an email address...you know why....b/c they exist
to sum this whole thing up.....DMU exists..everyone knows DMU exists.....you know DMU exists...why are you harping on these ridiculous points????
deserve it if they'll make it the night with you

please...pretty please with a cherry on top...go away....every time i read your posts i feel like im getting eye cancer

-j

😀

'Des Moines University Medical School' does not exist. That is where he said he will get his degree from. He didn't mention any 'DMU'.

The article claimed he spent 4 years in Medical School. Why does he not have an M.D. degree when graduating?

Podiatrists don't graduate from Medical School, they graduate from Podiatry school or Podiatric Medical School.

When they finish Podiatry school through Scholl they get a DPM degree from Dr.Scholl, not a Medical Doctor degree from Finch.

Misrepresenting the truth is unethical. It only harms the profession for what it really is.

Personal attacks show your fear and uneasiness.

Reading does not cause eye cancer, so don't be afraid to learn.

 

[ProdPod]

Get a life! Your so damn corny. The only thing you have to discuss is spelling errors. Podiatrists do very well for themselves financially and for you to say otherwise only tells me how much of an idiot you are. 😛

 

[spodok]

Get a life! Your so damn corny. The only thing you have to discuss is spelling errors. Podiatrists do very well for themselves financially and for you to say otherwise only tells me how much of an idiot you are. 😛

I did not discuss spelling errors in the last post.

Financially? A non scientific survey was taken by a podiatry magazine. That is not much to justify your Podiatric misfortune. If you want a real financial picture, look at the STUDENT LOAN DEFAULT RATE FOR PODIATRISTS.

By the way, you claimed to have me on ignore.

Which school are you in?

 

[box29]

Actually, the DPM degree will have the name Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science (aka Finch) on it also with Dr. William M. Scholl College of Podiatric Medicine.

 

[box29]

Okay, I'm sick of hearing that DMU does not exist so here it is straight from the website, by the way...it is a medical school:

http://www.dmu.edu/about/

Information About
Des Moines University
General Information University President Governance University History

Des Moines University - Osteopathic Medical Center provides students with the knowledge and skills needed to become health care professionals dedicated to maintaining and restoring the health of their patients. Classroom instruction and clinical training are presented in an atmosphere where humanitarian concerns, scholarly activity and health care delivery support the primary purpose of teaching and learning. Affirming its osteopathic commitment to meet basic health care needs, the University serves as a local, state and national resource for primary care physicians and associated health care providers.

Des Moines University - Osteopathic Medical Center offers education programs in medicine, allied health care services, health care administration and public health. Since the 1970s, the University has experienced dramatic growth. With the relocation of the College of Osteopathic Medicine to Grand Avenue in 1972, the campus grew from a single building to a 22-acre complex. Incorporated in 1898 as a freestanding medical college, the institution gained University status in 1980. This signified a momentous change of direction as well as a broadened educational mission. The University offers six degree programs through three colleges: The College of Osteopathic Medicine, The College of Podiatric Medicine and Surgery and The College of Health Sciences.

 

[ProdPod]

screw spodok,
you have nothing to prove to this *****. He is a bastard and will die a bastard. His life is predicated on less than tastefull attempts of diminshing self-confidence which only leaves me to believe that his own intentions are only acted out b/c of his own insecurities. 😀

 

[spodok]

Okay, I'm sick of hearing that DMU does not exist so here it is straight from the website, by the way...it is a medical school:

http://www.dmu.edu/about/

Information About
Des Moines University
General Information University President Governance University History

Des Moines University - Osteopathic Medical Center provides students with the knowledge and skills needed to become health care professionals dedicated to maintaining and restoring the health of their patients. Classroom instruction and clinical training are presented in an atmosphere where humanitarian concerns, scholarly activity and health care delivery support the primary purpose of teaching and learning. Affirming its osteopathic commitment to meet basic health care needs, the University serves as a local, state and national resource for primary care physicians and associated health care providers.

Des Moines University - Osteopathic Medical Center offers education programs in medicine, allied health care services, health care administration and public health. Since the 1970s, the University has experienced dramatic growth. With the relocation of the College of Osteopathic Medicine to Grand Avenue in 1972, the campus grew from a single building to a 22-acre complex. Incorporated in 1898 as a freestanding medical college, the institution gained University status in 1980. This signified a momentous change of direction as well as a broadened educational mission. The University offers six degree programs through three colleges: The College of Osteopathic Medicine, The College of Podiatric Medicine and Surgery and The College of Health Sciences.

None of that matches the name of the school he claims he went to or the type of student he was. This confuses the public and mistates his status.

Why don't you take the time to read the article.

Can you tell me why you lurk here on the Podometry board?

 

[spodok]

screw spodok,
you have nothing to prove to this *****. He is a bastard and will die a bastard. His life is predicated on less than tastefull attempts of diminshing self-confidence which only leaves me to believe that his own intentions are only acted out b/c of his own insecurities. 😀

I bet you were looking in the mirror screaming all that to yourself.

Why don't you answer my question regarding the school you are attending? You know nothing about Podiatry except what they feed you in school. What kind of profession dumps 1/3 of a class? Medical schools assist their students through hard times. Podiatry schools take anyone with a SS# and dumps them once they get da' money.

Sorry if I make you nervous. Why do you avoid telling me the school you are in? Are you afraid of something?

 

[box29]

1.None of that matches the name of the school he claims he went to or the type of student he was. This confuses the public and mistates his status.

2.Why don't you take the time to read the article.

3.Can you tell me why you lurk here on the Podometry board?

Just some constructive criticism here:

1.Let's see, what doesn't match?

 "Rogers completes doctorate, accepted to residency in NYC

Lee C. Rogers, a 1996 alumnus of GHS, will graduate from Des Moines University Medical School on May 29, 2004 with a doctor of podiatric medicine (DPM) degree. "

I think Des Moines University matches Des Moines University...the words "Medical School" are added for emphasis and it is implied when you mention the name. This is similar to saying Finch when someone means Finch University of Health Sciences/The Chicago Medical School, or Jefferson, or Drexel, or UVA, or VCOM, or CCOM and Midwestern University. Perhaps you must not be very perceptive or your grasp of the english language is rather lacking. Just because the words "medical school" appear, you jump to the conclusion that he should be an MD/DO. If you read further, you can infer that he attended the college of podiatric medicine and surgery of Des Moines University by the type of degree he will be awarded. Hmmmm. Maybe you need to work on those verbal reasoning skills. It is rather obvious to me now that you even lack the knowledge of the concept of the word "University." Would you like me to spell it for you again? Why don't you look up the meaning. Jeez...there are other professions within the medical field other than MD/DO, such as physical therapy, physician assistant, dentistry, PODIATRY, pharmacy, nursing, etc. Finch University/The Chicago Medical School has a Masters program for physician assistant studies and a Doctor of physical therapy program also. If I asked a Finch PT or PA student where they went to school, they would say Finch or CMS (Chicago Medical School) because that is where they go to school. If you would do some research instead of posting this non-sense, you would see that universities include other colleges within the large umbrella to include the colleges of these other medical fields. Des Moines University is just that, a university. Within it is the medical school that includes osteopathic medicine and podiatric medicine...Hence "Medical School" or Des Moines University Medical School...Please don't be so dense...you keep digging your hole deeper and deeper...

2. I did read the article carefully and it was interesting and I am glad he found a great residency and will continue important research for the sake of patients, science, and the future of podiatric medicine. As I said before, maybe you should take a Kaplan course for the verbal reasoning...work on the reading skills buddy, not just the reading speed...

3. To make you look like the fool ...honestly though, I was in podiatry school and I learned many things...I have a greater understanding of the lower extremity which will help me as a physician. I also learned that this particular field of medicine was not for me. I did enjoy my time spent at pod school and became close to many people. I do not regret going at all. I peruse (do I need to define this word for you?) this forum simply because I was a podiatry student and additionally, I am intereted in what other people have to say.


A bit of advice, if you post something to refute a previous post, please have some concrete evidence...okay? Bye bye.

 

[spodok]

Just some constructive criticism here:

1.Let's see, what doesn't match?

 "Rogers completes doctorate, accepted to residency in NYC

Lee C. Rogers, a 1996 alumnus of GHS, will graduate from Des Moines University Medical School on May 29, 2004 with a doctor of podiatric medicine (DPM) degree. "

I think Des Moines University matches Des Moines University...the words "Medical School" are added for emphasis and it is implied when you mention the name. This is similar to saying Finch when someone means Finch University of Health Sciences/The Chicago Medical School, or Jefferson, or Drexel, or UVA, or VCOM, or CCOM and Midwestern University. Perhaps you must not be very perceptive or your grasp of the english language is rather lacking. Just because the words "medical school" appear, you jump to the conclusion that he should be an MD/DO. If you read further, you can infer that he attended the college of podiatric medicine and surgery of Des Moines University by the type of degree he will be awarded. Hmmmm. Maybe you need to work on those verbal reasoning skills. It is rather obvious to me now that you even lack the knowledge of the concept of the word "University." Would you like me to spell it for you again? Why don't you look up the meaning. Jeez...there are other professions within the medical field other than MD/DO, such as physical therapy, physician assistant, dentistry, PODIATRY, pharmacy, nursing, etc. Finch University/The Chicago Medical School has a Masters program for physician assistant studies and a Doctor of physical therapy program also. If I asked a Finch PT or PA student where they went to school, they would say Finch or CMS (Chicago Medical School) because that is where they go to school. If you would do some research instead of posting this non-sense, you would see that universities include other colleges within the large umbrella to include the colleges of these other medical fields. Des Moines University is just that, a university. Within it is the medical school that includes osteopathic medicine and podiatric medicine...Hence "Medical School" or Des Moines University Medical School...Please don't be so dense...you keep digging your hole deeper and deeper...

2. I did read the article carefully and it was interesting and I am glad he found a great residency and will continue important research for the sake of patients, science, and the future of podiatric medicine. As I said before, maybe you should take a Kaplan course for the verbal reasoning...work on the reading skills buddy, not just the reading speed...

3. To make you look like the fool ...honestly though, I was in podiatry school and I learned many things...I have a greater understanding of the lower extremity which will help me as a physician. I also learned that this particular field of medicine was not for me. I did enjoy my time spent at pod school and became close to many people. I do not regret going at all. I peruse (do I need to define this word for you?) this forum simply because I was a podiatry student and additionally, I am intereted in what other people have to say.


A bit of advice, if you post something to refute a previous post, please have some concrete evidence...okay? Bye bye.

In your own little way you proved my point. Thank you for doing so. But I still don't understand why you think you will find success in DO school when you failed to do so in Podiatry school. Do you think it will be easier? You must make the Podiatry students here very uneasy. You personify their insecurities by your constant reminder that you left Podiatry school for something better. You couldn't finish what you started, then you circle overhead and further destroy their moral. Whats next for you....Massage Therapy?

This is not the Medical School Forum, it is the Health Professional Forum, we are Podiatrists, Physical Therapists, Acupunturists, Nursing Assistants....come back when you get into Massage Therapy, maybe you can finish that in a couple years.