Police shoot gunman dead in Nevada hospital ER

[pseudoknot]

DocB, I hope this wasn't your place!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gsaY2myxvA43ofzVaMa2cRU5Ak8gD96S0CMG0

By KEN RITTER – 2 hours ago

LAS VEGAS (AP) — A 48-year-old gunman was shot dead in the emergency room of a suburban Las Vegas hospital Wednesday after police said he raised his weapon in their direction and threatened suicide.

No hospital employees or patients were injured in the 12:57 a.m. shooting at St. Rose Dominican Hospital Siena campus in Henderson, police officials said.

Two officers fired multiple times and fatally wounded the man when he refused commands to drop the gun, raising it toward them, police said.

"Unfortunately this man lost his life. But the officers responded quickly and prevented any other injuries to staff or patients," police spokesman Todd Rasmussen said.

A nurse supervisor summoned Henderson police after the man "made some suicidal statements and said he had a gun," Rasmussen said.

About 30 people were in the emergency room at the time, police said in a statement. The emergency room remained closed after the shooting but most of the hospital was open.

The man's name was not immediately released.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

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[GeneralVeers]

DocB, I hope this wasn't your place!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gsaY2myxvA43ofzVaMa2cRU5Ak8gD96S0CMG0

It was mine. Glad I wasn't working.

I just put in an e-mail to my whole group demanding that we finally get metal detectors/security in our ER.

 

[Termwean]

A license to carry concealed.

It was mine. Glad I wasn't working.

I just put in an e-mail to my whole group demanding that we finally get metal detectors/security in our ER.

 

[docB]

Wasn't mine but it did happen at Veers's.

We may hear some rumblings about metal detectors, etc. but the expense usually causes that to die out. At least until there's another event.

I don't actually think that letting people carry in EDs would help much and I'm the most pro second ammendment guy around. I probably would not carry because the less than once in a career instance when it would be valuable would be eclipsed by the once a week danger of being disarmed in a scuffle with a drunk or a psych or a drunk psych.

Of note is the fact that while Nevada is one of the states where it's relatively easy to get a carry permit all of the hospitals in the state prohibit anyone, licensed or not, except law enforcement, from carrying.

 

[Termwean]

I was joking....I love guns, our right to own them, and am a NRA member...but I wouldn't recommend running around the ED "strapped" either...you just got to hope that the hospital has hired competent security/ police.

Wasn't mine but it did happen at Veers's.

We may hear some rumblings about metal detectors, etc. but the expense usually causes that to die out. At least until there's another event.

I don't actually think that letting people carry in EDs would help much and I'm the most pro second ammendment guy around. I probably would not carry because the less than once in a career instance when it would be valuable would be eclipsed by the once a week danger of being disarmed in a scuffle with a drunk or a psych or a drunk psych.

Of note is the fact that while Nevada is one of the states where it's relatively easy to get a carry permit all of the hospitals in the state prohibit anyone, licensed or not, except law enforcement, from carrying.

 

[pseudoknot]

It was mine. Glad I wasn't working.

I just put in an e-mail to my whole group demanding that we finally get metal detectors/security in our ER.

Ah, I'd forgotten you were in Vegas. I'm glad no innocents were physically harmed but I'm sure it's still tough to come in to work after something like that. I hope they upgrade your security!

 

[GeneralVeers]

Ah, I'd forgotten you were in Vegas. I'm glad no innocents were physically harmed but I'm sure it's still tough to come in to work after something like that. I hope they upgrade your security!

Me too.

 

[Aloha Kid]

Thank goodness the guy was just out to shoot himself. Could of ended badly if this wasn't the case. Very fortunate.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

We may hear some rumblings about metal detectors, etc. but the expense usually causes that to die out. At least until there's another event.

How expensive are metal detectors? Is it the machine or having everyone walk through it with security?

Some ER's simply put one up and have a low setting.

My old ER just has police sit at triage reading a book 24/7. Does not cost the ER, but the city.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I was just told that any increased security probably won't happen because it would hurt "customer service" and they don't want the hospital to be locked down like a "prison".

I guess the wrongful death suit against the hospital next time someone gets shot will be cheaper than better security....

 

[docB]

My old ER just has police sit at triage reading a book 24/7. Does not cost the ER, but the city.

I've never lived in a city that would be willing to place a cop in an ED at their expense. Many cities have arrangements where you could contract with them (read as pay them) to place a cop in your business but otherwise no go.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I've never lived in a city that would be willing to place a cop in an ED at their expense. Many cities have arrangements where you could contract with them (read as pay them) to place a cop in your business but otherwise no go.

In South Central we used to have a mini police station in our ER. With one call or alarm we'd have 3-4 armed LAPD officers there in 2 minutes.

 

[HotelCo]

I just put in an e-mail to my whole group demanding that we finally get metal detectors/security in our ER.

Metal detectors don't do much good for the patients coming in by ambulance. Some of the ERs I've transported to have their security officer come by with a handheld, but there is so much metal on the cots that they just go off no matter what. So it's a lose/lose situation. You don't search your Ambulance patients, or the dectector finds something and you search the patient only to find out it was the cot.

As for security, I'm all for armed security in the hospital (preferabally former/off-duty Law Enforcement instead of some gung-ho guy off the street with a fresh CCW)

-HotelCo

 

[nlax30]

Glad you're ok.

That said, just to play devil's advocate here..... don't dismiss the thought of concealed carry, even in a hospital. I agree that it may not be all that practical (physically) to carry in the ED as a physician, but don't dismiss just because you think the chances of it not happening at your location is low.

Heck, I'm hearing of more and more people carrying concealed to church of all places, a place that wasn't even really on the radar until fairly recently.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Glad you're ok.

That said, just to play devil's advocate here..... don't dismiss the thought of concealed carry, even in a hospital. I agree that it may not be all that practical (physically) to carry in the ED as a physician, but don't dismiss just because you think the chances of it not happening at your location is low.

Heck, I'm hearing of more and more people carrying concealed to church of all places, a place that wasn't even really on the radar until fairly recently.

I'm completely pro-gun, yet I wouldn't want to carry one in the hospital. The odds of someone being shot accidentally are much higher than the odds of a crazy person coming in shooting. Besides it would create an unsightly bulge in my scrubs....

 

[nlax30]

I'm completely pro-gun, yet I wouldn't want to carry one in the hospital. The odds of someone being shot accidentally are much higher than the odds of a crazy person coming in shooting. Besides it would create an unsightly bulge in my scrubs....

Just get a Thunderwear or a Smartcarry, make sure it's right in the midline, and display the bulge proudly..... probably a little too much attention with that.

 

[Drawing Dead]

Just get a Thunderwear or a Smartcarry, make sure it's right in the midline, and display the bulge proudly..... probably a little too much attention with that.

Look like some guaranteed ways to win a Darwin Award.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Metal detectors don't do much good for the patients coming in by ambulance.

As for security, I'm all for armed security in the hospital (preferabally former/off-duty Law Enforcement instead of some gung-ho guy off the street with a fresh CCW)

-HotelCo

I'm for the older cop, too. They calm triage by simply being there -- usually, unless they had too many donuts.

I heard of, but don't remember where, an ER put up an inactive metal detector which worked well as a deterent for most problems (maybe NY). The gang-bangers would simply drop off their friend, grandma, etc., then turn around and leave. A sign saying their are metal detectors might suffice as well.

 

[dchristismi]

Hm, I thought that's why we did the standard trauma CXR...to see the concealed weapon...

j/k, glad you're ok GV - scary stuff.

 

[docB]

Glad you're ok.

That said, just to play devil's advocate here..... don't dismiss the thought of concealed carry, even in a hospital. I agree that it may not be all that practical (physically) to carry in the ED as a physician, but don't dismiss just because you think the chances of it not happening at your location is low.

Heck, I'm hearing of more and more people carrying concealed to church of all places, a place that wasn't even really on the radar until fairly recently.

I am against carrying in the ED. It's not that I think an armed intruder situation is a remote possibility. It's that I think that the odds of any of us successfully interveneing in such a situation are tremendously low compared to the very likely possibility of being disarmed during a routine scuffle with a patient. Once disarmed then you have created an armed intruder in the ED situation.

I think that having cops in the ED is a good idea (if economically difficult) or I suggest arming specific people like security supervisors who would (in theory) be highly trained and not be the ones to do the routine patient restraints.

I remember once I was in a bar in St. Louis and I noticed that the bouncer was openly carrying. That just seemed like a really bad idea.

 

[logos]

I remember once I was in a bar in St. Louis and I noticed that the bouncer was openly carrying. That just seemed like a really bad idea.

Yep. A visible firearm is a bad idea almost anywhere but shooting/hunting/spending time in the wilderness. Thats why many police officers choose to use holsters with retention devices (buttons, special way to draw the pistol, etc).

That said, I think the risk of losing a concealed firearm is exceptionally low, especially if one had a single retention measure (a button or "thumb break" strap). People just dont know its there and arent aware enough to guess that it is. However, concealing in scrubs would take some work and likely wouldn't be super comfortable. Combine that with the low likelihood of actually needing the firearm, and I agree that it wouldn't likely be a very practical choice (although I would still generally support peoples right to do it and the general removal of restrictions disallowing firearms in hospitals...or anywhere else that isnt behind staffed metal detectors).