political views of pharmacists poll

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We would have to be taxed 15% more to pay for it. Had you just invested that extra tax over a forty year career you'd lose out on 2 to 5 million assuming 5 to 8 percent return.
Assuming you never spent any of that money on health care?

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Assuming you never spent any of that money on health care?

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Ok we'll add in that cost. If you look at different quotes for the average amount spent on health care it's about 9k to 10k per year. Taking that out you still get $1 to $2.5 million had you just invested the extra tax over forty years.
 
Ok we'll add in that cost. If you look at different quotes for the average amount spent on health care it's about 9k to 10k per year. Taking that out you still get $1 to $2.5 million had you just invested the extra tax over forty years.
That's fair. So the big Winners under your plan would be wealthy, healthy people. And everyone else would be losers.

Get sick? Shouldn't have gotten sick.

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That's fair. So the big Winners under your plan would be wealthy, healthy people. And everyone else would be losers.

Get sick? Shouldn't have gotten sick.

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Well the opposite would be true your way. Unfortunately not everyone can ever always benefit.

I'll just never understand why you think your typical healthy American should pay for everyone else. This is also coming from someone with two kids and we will end up ahead.

Just curious what's the highest amount you've seen someone pay in a year that had insurance?
 
Well the opposite would be true your way. Unfortunately not everyone can ever always benefit.

I'll just never understand why you think your typical healthy American should pay for everyone else. This is also coming from someone with two kids and we will end up ahead.

Just curious what's the highest amount you've seen someone pay in a year that had insurance?

Your first point is fair. I would just prefer the winners to be more than just wealthy people with low medical expenses.

Your second point is nonsensical. Healthy people already pay for healthcare for unhealthy people. Risk sharing is literally the basis of insurance. I would just prefer a system that covers everyone and isn't tied to employment.

I've never attempted to track how much the highest amount anyone pays is. I know it's a lot and that going bankrupt due to medical expenses isn't unheard of.


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I'm pro guns because i believe they make our democracy stronger. But the second amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.", means that states should only have a local militia AKA National Guard and unless the national guard needs us to have guns, we shouldn't. I love guns as much as the next person but the amount of mass shootings that we have is insane. We have Vegas, and now Texas. Are we going to ignore the fact that it is a matter of time before the next mass shooting? We ignore that we are the only country with this problem! There has got to be more regulations. Australia took away guns and no mass shooting since. I mean should it be legal for me to acquire nuclear weapons or drive down the street with a tank? Then why is it okay for me to own 29 assault rifles?

I support the right of citizens to own firearms, even fully-automatic firearms with one caveat, there should be a real background investigation. When I went to buy a gun, I was in and out of the store with a new gun and 1000 rounds of ammo in 20 minutes. That's kinda mind boggling in my opinion.

Compare this to the process to become a police officer. My friend applied, took the test, got called for the medical, then one day I randomly had a detective come to my house. She was a background investigator for the police and she asked me questions about my friend, their mental state, if they can be trusted with a gun, if they are easily provoked, work ethic, etc.

I told them they were great but they do tend to be easily provoked into anger. My friend got turned down for the job because of that. Is it too much to ask for this kind of background investigation to get a gun?
 
Your first point is fair. I would just prefer the winners to be more than just wealthy people with low medical expenses.

Your second point is nonsensical. Healthy people already pay for healthcare for unhealthy people. Risk sharing is literally the basis of insurance. I would just prefer a system that covers everyone and isn't tied to employment.

I've never attempted to track how much the highest amount anyone pays is. I know it's a lot and that going bankrupt due to medical expenses isn't unheard of.


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I obviously meant pay for others so they get it for free.

Do you believe everyone should be paid the same no matter what their profession?
 
I obviously meant pay for others so they get it for free.

Do you believe everyone should be paid the same no matter what their profession?
Huh? No I don't believe everyone should be paid the same no matter what their profession. I also don't follow your logic in asking the question.

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Huh? No I don't believe everyone should be paid the same no matter what their profession. I also don't follow your logic in asking the question.

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So why should we pay more to cover everyone else?

Why stop at free health care? Everything might as well be free and we simply work to get these things for free.
 
Because not everyone can stomach the idea of living in a country where other people live in abundance while others, for whatever reason, will starve, freeze to death, or die from preventable illnesses because of lack of access to food, shelter, and medicine.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to pay more to cover everyone else because everyone else would have received the same access to social support, loving parents, high quality education, physical safety, excellent healthcare, clean water and nutritious food, and many other resources and services (and just dumb luck of not having any congenital diseases or traumatic accidents) I received from the first day I was born, and which made me into the highly capable and functional adult that I am today. That's not the reality, and although it's not my fault that other people didn't have the same opportunities I did, it is still my responsibility to acknowledge that many of the advantages I've had in life are for reasons that have nothing to do with merit or character.

That responsibility is why I think I should pay more to cover everyone else. Plus, I prefer to live in a society where people care about each other regardless of their individual ability to generate money. In part because I think it's ethical, but also in part because of self-preservation - I won't always be able-bodied enough to participate in the workforce, and hopefully I will have saved enough money when that moment comes, but there's a lot of uncertainty around that, and I would prefer to work towards building a society in which I do not have to live with that uncertainty (which means no one has to live with that uncertainty). (I do currently have disability insurance, which mitigates some of the uncertainty, but isn't a complete solution.)

That doesn't mean I think everything should be free or that all occupations should make the same salary. But I would prefer that instead of punishing people for not working "hard enough" by denying them access to food, shelter, and medicine, we reward people for hard work/productivity/innovation/whatever it is you value in others by giving them access to luxuries / non-essential services / more lucrative entertainment / more conveniences/ more choices in acquiring material goods, etc. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity in terms of what is essential versus non-essential, especially as people get used to a certain standard of living (e.g. refrigeration, phone and internet service, air conditioning, transportation), but rather than let prefect be the enemy of good, we can at least ensure people have access to some basic things and adjust as we go along. We don't have to get it completely right, but we can certainly do a much better job than what we're doing now.

I came from a hard working middle class family. Maybe it's because my family worked hard that makes me think everyone should. Well that and I think everyone for the most part has the same opportunity to make something of their life.

And like I've been saying I'd rather give to charity then let the government decide where my money goes.
 
How did you come to this conclusion?

Regarding charities, that's fine that you would rather give to charity than to government, but keep in mind that charities can be just as corrupt and dysfunctional as any government agency.

I guess the question is why can't most people?
 
Because not everyone can stomach the idea of living in a country where other people live in abundance while others, for whatever reason, will starve, freeze to death, or die from preventable illnesses because of lack of access to food, shelter, and medicine.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to pay more to cover everyone else because everyone else would have received the same access to social support, loving parents, high quality education, physical safety, excellent healthcare, clean water and nutritious food, and many other resources and services (and just dumb luck of not having any congenital diseases or traumatic accidents) I received from the first day I was born, and which made me into the highly capable and functional adult that I am today. That's not the reality, and although it's not my fault that other people didn't have the same opportunities I did, it is still my responsibility to acknowledge that many of the advantages I've had in life are for reasons that have nothing to do with merit or character.

That responsibility is why I think I should pay more to cover everyone else. Plus, I prefer to live in a society where people care about each other regardless of their individual ability to generate money. In part because I think it's ethical, but also in part because of self-preservation - I won't always be able-bodied enough to participate in the workforce, and hopefully I will have saved enough money when that moment comes, but there's a lot of uncertainty around that, and I would prefer to work towards building a society in which I do not have to live with that uncertainty (which means no one has to live with that uncertainty). (I do currently have disability insurance, which mitigates some of the uncertainty, but isn't a complete solution.)

That doesn't mean I think everything should be free or that all occupations should make the same salary. But I would prefer that instead of punishing people for not working "hard enough" by denying them access to food, shelter, and medicine, we reward people for hard work/productivity/innovation/whatever it is you value in others by giving them access to luxuries / non-essential services / more lucrative entertainment / more conveniences/ more choices in acquiring material goods, etc. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity in terms of what is essential versus non-essential, especially as people get used to a certain standard of living (e.g. refrigeration, phone and internet service, air conditioning, transportation), but rather than let prefect be the enemy of good, we can at least ensure people have access to some basic things and adjust as we go along. We don't have to get it completely right, but we can certainly do a much better job than what we're doing now.
All the love.

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You said that you think everyone for the most part has the same opportunity to make something of their life. I honestly don't understand how someone who works in healthcare can think that, but I would like to understand. Maybe you misspoke or I misunderstood? I don't understand how someone who was born into poverty, exposed to high-levels of lead in their drinking water, went to a school where they didn't feel safe and didn't have good teachers, was raised by a single parent that had to work a full time job and was not available to help with homework and couldn't afford tutoring, and on and on and on, has the same opportunity to make something of their life as someone who didn't have to deal with all those things?

My parents made a combined 40k back in the day and look where I'm at. Neither of them have a degree beyond high school.

Why are you giving examples of a smaller part of the population. I said most, not all.

I've said plenty of times now, you can't make things work out for everyone.
 
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Again, how did you come to the conclusion that most people have had the same opportunities that you've had? I gave you some specific scenarios as examples of issues that impact a lot of people in the United States, not just "a smaller part" of the population.

Disparities | Adolescent and School Health | CDC
Disparities | Healthy People 2020

What opportunities? My family worked hard to make that 40k. Are you seriously saying they had it easy?

You want to know what will happen if we gave health care to everyone? No one would work because now everything is being given to them. Unemployment, food stamps, health care. Why work?

I'm done here.
 
Sounds like he had a really awesome, supportive mom. Cool story, but doesn't really give a solution to the systemic problems we're discussing here.

If you say so.
 
The opportunity to work hard is still an opportunity. Having more opportunities doesn't mean you don't work hard. Riding a bicycle still requires effort, but it requires less effort if the wind is blowing on your back rather than your front.

Thank you, I'll make sure I let them know they are the lucky ones.
 
Because not everyone can stomach the idea of living in a country where other people live in abundance while others, for whatever reason, will starve, freeze to death, or die from preventable illnesses because of lack of access to food, shelter, and medicine.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to pay more to cover everyone else because everyone else would have received the same access to social support, loving parents, high quality education, physical safety, excellent healthcare, clean water and nutritious food, and many other resources and services (and just dumb luck of not having any congenital diseases or traumatic accidents) I received from the first day I was born, and which made me into the highly capable and functional adult that I am today. That's not the reality, and although it's not my fault that other people didn't have the same opportunities I did, it is still my responsibility to acknowledge that many of the advantages I've had in life are for reasons that have nothing to do with merit or character.

That responsibility is why I think I should pay more to cover everyone else. Plus, I prefer to live in a society where people care about each other regardless of their individual ability to generate money. In part because I think it's ethical, but also in part because of self-preservation - I won't always be able-bodied enough to participate in the workforce, and hopefully I will have saved enough money when that moment comes, but there's a lot of uncertainty around that, and I would prefer to work towards building a society in which I do not have to live with that uncertainty (which means no one has to live with that uncertainty). (I do currently have disability insurance, which mitigates some of the uncertainty, but isn't a complete solution.)

That doesn't mean I think everything should be free or that all occupations should make the same salary. But I would prefer that instead of punishing people for not working "hard enough" by denying them access to food, shelter, and medicine, we reward people for hard work/productivity/innovation/whatever it is you value in others by giving them access to luxuries / non-essential services / more lucrative entertainment / more conveniences/ more choices in acquiring material goods, etc. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity in terms of what is essential versus non-essential, especially as people get used to a certain standard of living (e.g. refrigeration, phone and internet service, air conditioning, transportation), but rather than let prefect be the enemy of good, we can at least ensure people have access to some basic things and adjust as we go along. We don't have to get it completely right, but we can certainly do a much better job than what we're doing now.
I agree 100%. I love this post. I wish there were more people out there with this level of understanding and selflessness.
 
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How does someone who was repeatedly raped by their father as a child and has severe PTSD as a result have the same opportunity to make something of their life as someone whose parents provided a safe and protected environment for them to grow up in and develop trusting relationships with others?

How does someone who was disowned by their parents for being gay and became homeless at the age of 16 have the same opportunity as someone who was never disowned by their parents and was never homeless as a teenager?

I can keep giving you more and more examples if you really need them.
I love you more and more with each post, and I don’t even know you. I love kind, empathetic people who understand the suffering of others.
 
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Because not everyone can stomach the idea of living in a country where other people live in abundance while others, for whatever reason, will starve, freeze to death, or die from preventable illnesses because of lack of access to food, shelter, and medicine.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to pay more to cover everyone else because everyone else would have received the same access to social support, loving parents, high quality education, physical safety, excellent healthcare, clean water and nutritious food, and many other resources and services (and just dumb luck of not having any congenital diseases or traumatic accidents) I received from the first day I was born, and which made me into the highly capable and functional adult that I am today. That's not the reality, and although it's not my fault that other people didn't have the same opportunities I did, it is still my responsibility to acknowledge that many of the advantages I've had in life are for reasons that have nothing to do with merit or character.

That responsibility is why I think I should pay more to cover everyone else. Plus, I prefer to live in a society where people care about each other regardless of their individual ability to generate money. In part because I think it's ethical, but also in part because of self-preservation - I won't always be able-bodied enough to participate in the workforce, and hopefully I will have saved enough money when that moment comes, but there's a lot of uncertainty around that, and I would prefer to work towards building a society in which I do not have to live with that uncertainty (which means no one has to live with that uncertainty). (I do currently have disability insurance, which mitigates some of the uncertainty, but isn't a complete solution.)

That doesn't mean I think everything should be free or that all occupations should make the same salary. But I would prefer that instead of punishing people for not working "hard enough" by denying them access to food, shelter, and medicine, we reward people for hard work/productivity/innovation/whatever it is you value in others by giving them access to luxuries / non-essential services / more lucrative entertainment / more conveniences/ more choices in acquiring material goods, etc. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity in terms of what is essential versus non-essential, especially as people get used to a certain standard of living (e.g. refrigeration, phone and internet service, air conditioning, transportation), but rather than let prefect be the enemy of good, we can at least ensure people have access to some basic things and adjust as we go along. We don't have to get it completely right, but we can certainly do a much better job than what we're doing now.

This is a man who has zero loans and his tuition was less than 40k.

You should go watch some worldstarhiphop videos.
 
What opportunities? My family worked hard to make that 40k. Are you seriously saying they had it easy?

You want to know what will happen if we gave health care to everyone? No one would work because now everything is being given to them. Unemployment, food stamps, health care. Why work?

I'm done here.

What we have here is an argument between liberal and conservative ideologies. People are all born in different circumstances. Liberals believe that it is the government's job to equalize these circumstances to make things "fair". Conservatives believe it is the individuals job to be in charge of their own destiny. Problem is, no amount of handouts from the government can equalize what you were born with(low IQ, lack of drive, no skills). Oh but they will continue to prey upon this perception of "inequality" to add more government programs and wealth transfers though. My parents came here with zero in their pockets. We lived 4 people in a 1 bedroom tenement. I never took any welfare, food stamps, nothing. Grinded for every piece I ever owned. So with that type of experience, I would prefer if the government didn't rob me to pay other people.
 
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What we have here is an argument between liberal and conservative ideologies. People are all born in different circumstances. Liberals believe that it is the government's job to equalize these circumstances to make things "fair". Conservatives believe it is the individuals job to be in charge of their own destiny. Problem is, no amount of handouts from the government can equalize what you were born with(low IQ, lack of drive, no skills). Oh but they will continue to prey upon this perception of "inequality" to add more government programs and wealth transfers though. My parents came here with zero in their pockets. We lived 4 people in a 1 bedroom tenement. I never took any welfare, food stamps, nothing. Grinded for every piece I ever owned. So with that type of experience, I would prefer if the government didn't rob me to pay other people.

I think a lot of people think like we do when they go through the experience themselves. I'm not saying I was ever homeless or raised by horrible parents but they worked hard and I got here by by working hard myself. I don't see the need to help others even more then what the government already does.
 
Because not everyone can stomach the idea of living in a country where other people live in abundance while others, for whatever reason, will starve, freeze to death, or die from preventable illnesses because of lack of access to food, shelter, and medicine.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to pay more to cover everyone else because everyone else would have received the same access to social support, loving parents, high quality education, physical safety, excellent healthcare, clean water and nutritious food, and many other resources and services (and just dumb luck of not having any congenital diseases or traumatic accidents) I received from the first day I was born, and which made me into the highly capable and functional adult that I am today. That's not the reality, and although it's not my fault that other people didn't have the same opportunities I did, it is still my responsibility to acknowledge that many of the advantages I've had in life are for reasons that have nothing to do with merit or character.

That responsibility is why I think I should pay more to cover everyone else. Plus, I prefer to live in a society where people care about each other regardless of their individual ability to generate money. In part because I think it's ethical, but also in part because of self-preservation - I won't always be able-bodied enough to participate in the workforce, and hopefully I will have saved enough money when that moment comes, but there's a lot of uncertainty around that, and I would prefer to work towards building a society in which I do not have to live with that uncertainty (which means no one has to live with that uncertainty). (I do currently have disability insurance, which mitigates some of the uncertainty, but isn't a complete solution.)

That doesn't mean I think everything should be free or that all occupations should make the same salary. But I would prefer that instead of punishing people for not working "hard enough" by denying them access to food, shelter, and medicine, we reward people for hard work/productivity/innovation/whatever it is you value in others by giving them access to luxuries / non-essential services / more lucrative entertainment / more conveniences/ more choices in acquiring material goods, etc. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity in terms of what is essential versus non-essential, especially as people get used to a certain standard of living (e.g. refrigeration, phone and internet service, air conditioning, transportation), but rather than let prefect be the enemy of good, we can at least ensure people have access to some basic things and adjust as we go along. We don't have to get it completely right, but we can certainly do a much better job than what we're doing now.

My main problem with this is why I should be paying more for the moral failings of others? The deadbeat father/uncaring mother should be paying, not me the responsible taxpayer trying to save money and make ends meet. Isn't the point of social security to be that you pay in your whole life so when you aren't able bodied you receive your investment? People who fail at life should be allowed to fail. It shouldn't be my responsibility to subsidize the moral failings of others. That, I believe, is unethical.
 
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Let's create the laziest country on Earth!!!!
 
Let's create the laziest country on Earth!!!!

Well we have the longest work week with the fewest weeks of vacation of any industrial country on earth (not to mention some of the fewest protections for workers), so we have a ways to go yet. ;)
 
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Well we have the longest work week with the fewest weeks of vacation of any industrial country on earth (not to mention some of the fewest protections for workers), so we have a ways to go yet. ;)
Lol. You crack me up. Let people be dramatic sometimes. :D
 
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My main problem with this is why I should be paying more for the moral failings of others? The deadbeat father/uncaring mother should be paying, not me the responsible taxpayer trying to save money and make ends meet. Isn't the point of social security to be that you pay in your whole life so when you aren't able bodied you receive your investment? People who fail at life should be allowed to fail. It shouldn't be my responsibility to subsidize the moral failings of others. That, I believe, is unethical.

Marie Antoinette said the same thing.
 
Do you think it was right that you had to overcome those challenges and deal with those hardships? Were there times that other people around you made your life more difficult just because they could and they didn't care how it would impact you, and there was no one around who would protect you? Is it possible that we can do a better job of protecting vulnerable populations in our society, reducing unnecessary suffering, and increasing the chances of more people having the opportunity to prosper and pursue happiness? Maybe direct benefit programs like social security or food stamps aren't the best way to do those things. I'm definitely open to discussing the merits of different policies, but insisting that people just need to "work harder" isn't practical or realistic. Not every social ill can be solved by "hard work" (see some of the examples I provided above - resilience and determination can only do so much; we're only human after all).

I personally don't think of the government as robbing me, as I wouldn't (and neither would you) have the earning potential I have if it wasn't for government-funded infrastructure, institutions, and policies (public education and federal student loans being a major one in my personal experience, and also all the work that government does behind the scenes to protect our public health and security). I am simply paying my dues back and ensuring that those that come after me are set up for success as well. I also don't mind that "my" money goes directly to another person's food, housing, and healthcare if they aren't able to produce enough to cover those expenses on their own - for whatever reason. I personally believe people inherently have value and deserve to have their basic needs taken care of even if they aren't generating capital, regardless of whether it's an issue of willingness or ability. Not to mention, most people actually want to work and feel accomplished and that they are contributing something, or because they want to save up to buy nice things or to travel, not just to make sure they have health insurance and food.

I've worked very hard to get where I am in life, and I continue to work very hard and continue to challenge myself to accomplish more. I would probably be able to do more if I actually paid more taxes, and if everyone else who was well-off paid more in taxes (I wouldn't consider myself rich, but I live very comfortably). In fact, not only do I not feel robbed by government (because the money I give to government is invested back in services and infrastructure we all need and use), but I feel more robbed by more affluent people not giving more of their personal wealth to government and investing back into the system that enabled them to generate their wealth to begin with.

This is a common liberal tactic. "you don't want more government programs and wealth transfers, therefore you must have no compassion or care about protecting vulnerable populations in our society". Liberals want you to be dependent on the government for the rest of your lives because they think you are unable to do so otherwise. Conservatives want you to work hard to be the best you can be and build your individual worth.
No, I don't think it was right that I had to overcome those challenges but the point of the story is, I did. I didn't sit around and cry about it. I went out and hustled. The amount of time people spend complaining, protesting, asking for more free stuff could have been spent thinking of ideas for a business.
I personally think the government is robbing me. Remember, we don't pay taxes, the government TAKES taxes from us right out of our paychecks. Sure, some of it may go to helping the poor but others go to bombing the crap out of other countries, building football stadiums, bailing out banks, and luxury cars and mansions for politicians. A healthy amount of skepticism should be injected into your world views. Liberals seem to have a child-like faith that all problems can be solved by the government and they are all honest people and do what they tell you.
I do appreciate your positive outlook on life. Unfortunately, that's not how everyone thinks. If you keep taking from people who work for their wealth and giving to people who just lay around and do nothing, eventually you'll run out of productive people. There are many examples to point to in history.
 
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VADM Vivek Murthy, the 19th US Surgeon General, has a phrase I really like, "Once we stop judging, we can start helping."

Whenever I start blaming and judging someone, and start thinking about them as a burden or a problem, I no longer see them as a person that matters as much as I matter. When that happens, I actually start making the problem worse by narrowing my view to possible solutions. Regardless of what the other person does or doesn't do, if I really want to be effective in working with that person, or helping that person, or resolving whatever conflict exists between me and the other person, I need to shift the way I see them and start thinking about them as a person, and start thinking about what their needs and challenges are. Once I can truly see them, I can start thinking of solutions I may have been blind to before when all I could see was a problem rather than a person.

I don't know what the best solution is to helping someone with a gambling addiction, but I am almost certain that blaming and judging them will probably not be very helpful or effective. I am not saying you're wrong or bad for judging them - I fall into judging people all the time and I don't expect myself or anyone else to be perfect. Rather, I am pointing out that judging others is usually not a very effective way to help.

When police officers start viewing people as people that matter just as much as they matter, rather than as problems/things they just have to deal with as part of their job, they are actually better able to do their job and police more effectively. And if police officers can have this mindset towards people who are breaking laws, who may be violent and dangerous, who may have done some objectively horrible things to other people, than it's possible for all of us to have this mindset:

I agree with you in theory. These types of statements sound beautiful, but I don’t know many people who practice this.

Mother Teresa, Thich Nhat Hanh, and other wise people that I look up to have made these exact points. Unfortunately, I’m just not “perfect enough” to not judge or get annoyed at people’s bad decisions. I’m all for social programs, but I don’t want to see them get abused. It would be infuriating to see my money go to people who just gamble it all away while their children don’t have proper shoes or school supplies. Enabling destructive behavior is not helpful.

I agree that we are more likely to find solutions if we open our hearts and minds. These people don’t always make it easy.
 
It's almost like people think their opinion is correct because it sounds morally better.

Let's be real no matter what happens, nothing will actually change.
 
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VADM Vivek Murthy, the 19th US Surgeon General, has a phrase I really like, "Once we stop judging, we can start helping."

Whenever I start blaming and judging someone, and start thinking about them as a burden or a problem, I no longer see them as a person that matters as much as I matter. When that happens, I actually start making the problem worse by narrowing my view to possible solutions. Regardless of what the other person does or doesn't do, if I really want to be effective in working with that person, or helping that person, or resolving whatever conflict exists between me and the other person, I need to shift the way I see them and start thinking about them as a person, and start thinking about what their needs and challenges are. Once I can truly see them, I can start thinking of solutions I may have been blind to before when all I could see was a problem rather than a person.

I don't know what the best solution is to helping someone with a gambling addiction, but I am almost certain that blaming and judging them will probably not be very helpful or effective. I am not saying you're wrong or bad for judging them - I fall into judging people all the time and I don't expect myself or anyone else to be perfect. Rather, I am pointing out that judging others is usually not a very effective way to help.

When police officers start viewing people as people that matter just as much as they matter, rather than as problems/things they just have to deal with as part of their job, they are actually better able to do their job and police more effectively. And if police officers can have this mindset towards people who are breaking laws, who may be violent and dangerous, who may have done some objectively horrible things to other people, than it's possible for all of us to have this mindset:


I'm not judging them, I don't really care either way if someone is a gambling addict. What I don't want is their choice negatively impacting me or me having to be financially supportive of their bad behavior and decisions. Too me that's akin to theft. People should be mostly free to live how they want, but it becomes morally wrong when people make poor decisions at the expense of others. In much the same way that they should be free, I should also be free from them and their choices and not be taxed/forced to subsidize those behaviors.
 
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I'm not judging them, I don't really care either way if someone is a gambling addict. What I don't want is their choice negatively impacting me or me having to be financially supportive of their bad behavior and decisions. Too me that's akin to theft. People should be mostly free to live how they want, but it becomes morally wrong when people make poor decisions at the expense of others. In much the same way that they should be free, I should also be free from them and their choices and not be taxed/forced to subsidize those behaviors.
I understand what you are saying, but you’re assuming that everyone is in a bad situation due to their choices. That’s simply not true. Giga gave several examples.
 
I understand what you are saying, but you’re assuming that everyone is in a bad situation due to their choices. That’s simply not true. Giga gave several examples.

I should probably clarify. I'm not saying all people, people with disabilities or develop debilitating illness like cancer obviously need help. A social safety net should exist for reasons like that.
 
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I should probably clarify. I'm not saying all people, people with disabilities or develop debilitating illness like cancer obviously need help. A social safety net should exist for reasons like that.
That seems like a reasonable and compassionate stance.
 
No. It's more so I don't want to be forced to pay part of my neighbors mortgage because they are in default due to a gambling addiction.

That's understandable, but the majority of poor people aren't poor due to having a vice. We are witnessing the death of labor as a means to support ones self become a thing of the past and if something isn't done about it, then the lower classes will begin to riot. You're going to see a larger welfare state one way or another because its the only way capitalism can continue. So I'd come to terms with it and get used to it.
 
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No one chooses to start out poor. But perpetual poverty can largely be attributed to choice. People who argue for these government programs always take the most extreme cases. not everyone on these programs is a starving homeless 12 year old with cancer that was abandoned by his father and beaten by a drug addict mother. This society gives free handouts to anyone who is perceived as a victim. This in turn has everyone fighting to become more of a victim than the next person. You can see the victim mentality be promoted all the time and people only validate victims. I bet if my backstory was different and I was a rich trust fund kid, everyone here would dismiss what i'm saying immediately.

I work in an inner city with a predominantly Dominican population. I have 12 co-wokers and they are ALL on welfare, food stamps, rent assistance, medicaid etc. most of them are grossly overweight. no one is starving. They just get half their check under the table. These programs are grossly abused and I wouldn't expect anything less from the woefully incompetent government. We are all compassionate towards people with real problems that were born into bad situations. But the answer is not to take 33% out of our paychecks every week and give it to them for the rest of their lives.
 
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I work in an inner city with a predominantly Dominican population. I have 12 co-wokers and they are ALL on welfare, food stamps, rent assistance, medicaid etc. most of them are grossly overweight. no one is starving. They just get half their check under the table. These programs are grossly abused and I wouldn't expect anything less from the woefully incompetent government. We are all compassionate towards people with real problems that were born into bad situations. But the answer is not to take 33% out of our paychecks every week and give it to them for the rest of their lives.

A majority of the taxes go straight to military. A small amount goes to those specific programs you listed. The welfare program includes 80+ programs that all split that money. You're coworkers also pay taxes though not as much as you.

People do tend to exaggerate cases in favor of these programs I agree, but then I turn around and see people exaggerate the abuse cases too. These programs aren't grossly abused. I wouldn't be surprised if a small amount of welfare recipients actually abuse the system. And I would bet that in all those abuse cases, there are children who benefit from it. Yeah, I didn't make poor choices and have children I couldn't afford, but others do and I feel a little better knowing that the lady in front of me at checkout with $500 worth of groceries is using my <2% that goes to snap benefits for her unfortunate children.
 
No one chooses to start out poor. But perpetual poverty can largely be attributed to choice. People who argue for these government programs always take the most extreme cases. not everyone on these programs is a starving homeless 12 year old with cancer that was abandoned by his father and beaten by a drug addict mother. This society gives free handouts to anyone who is perceived as a victim. This in turn has everyone fighting to become more of a victim than the next person. You can see the victim mentality be promoted all the time and people only validate victims. I bet if my backstory was different and I was a rich trust fund kid, everyone here would dismiss what i'm saying immediately.

I work in an inner city with a predominantly Dominican population. I have 12 co-wokers and they are ALL on welfare, food stamps, rent assistance, medicaid etc. most of them are grossly overweight. no one is starving. They just get half their check under the table. These programs are grossly abused and I wouldn't expect anything less from the woefully incompetent government. We are all compassionate towards people with real problems that were born into bad situations. But the answer is not to take 33% out of our paychecks every week and give it to them for the rest of their lives.
I want social programs like Europe, but I wouldn’t trust us to have that here with our government’s corruption and waste. The laziest workers I’ve ever seen have been government workers.

If we minimized corruption, abuse, waste, and fraud, I would be 100% on board with government funded education and healthcare for all. It’s probably never going to happen because that would require too many big changes.

I think government workers and congress are also stealing our money. They don’t do anything, and they get paid well and have good benefits. I also can’t stand the people who abuse government programs. However, if everyone got those benefits, there would be no incentive to abuse them.

When I was a tech, there was another tech who was a single mother, and her child had asthma. She couldn’t afford the medications and healthcare so she tried to get on Medicaid. They told her she would qualify if she had another kid or worked less/made less money. Our government encourages people to be useless to society. Here was this girl who already made the mistake of being a single mother, but she was doing the best she could to fix her life. She was going to a trade school to learn a trade to find a better job. She was working full time. These people were telling her to stop trying, and be useless. Only then would they give her government money.
 
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A majority of the taxes go straight to military. A small amount goes to those specific programs you listed. The welfare program includes 80+ programs that all split that money. You're coworkers also pay taxes though not as much as you.

People do tend to exaggerate cases in favor of these programs I agree, but then I turn around and see people exaggerate the abuse cases too. These programs aren't grossly abused. I wouldn't be surprised if a small amount of welfare recipients actually abuse the system. And I would bet that in all those abuse cases, there are children who benefit from it. Yeah, I didn't make poor choices and have children I couldn't afford, but others do and I feel a little better knowing that the lady in front of me at checkout with $500 worth of groceries is using my <2% that goes to snap benefits for her unfortunate children.
Yeah well, I don’t want our tax money to go to wars and drones that kill innocent people, but no one cares what I think. Costa Rica doesn’t have a military, but they have good social programs for their citizens. Priorities. They would rather use their money to build rather than destroy, unlike us.
 
@giga I don’t think of addiction as a disease. It is the result of poor choices. People are not helpless. They make a choice to abuse addictive drugs/alcohol and then wonder why they become addicted. It doesn’t take a genius to prevent it. We all know which substances are addictive. They teach about it in grade school and high school.
 
@giga I don’t think of addiction as a disease. It is the result of poor choices. People are not helpless. They make a choice to abuse addictive drugs/alcohol and then wonder why they become addicted. It doesn’t take a genius to prevent it. We all know which substances are addictive. They teach about it in grade school and high school.

Have you had any tobacco cessation training, or are you familiar with the concept of motivational interviewing?
 
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