Poll: How much in student loans did you borrow this year?

Discussion in 'Dental' started by Edward Norton, Aug 9, 2017.

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How much in loans did you borrow this year?

  1. Below $30,000

    17 vote(s)
    21.0%
  2. $30,000 - 50,000

    16 vote(s)
    19.8%
  3. $50,000-75,000

    15 vote(s)
    18.5%
  4. $75,000-100,000

    16 vote(s)
    19.8%
  5. Over $100,000

    17 vote(s)
    21.0%
  1. Edward Norton

    Edward Norton 7+ Year Member

    23
    18
    Sep 17, 2009
    Hi dental students. With the increase in the educational costs of attending dental school, I wanted to ask you what you HAD to borrow (this year) in order to pay for your education. A similar thread was made about 10 years ago, but there's no denying that costs have increased dramatically and it's good for us to understand what dental students are facing.

    Thanks for participating. Feel free to indicate your school.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
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  3. ncide

    ncide 2+ Year Member

    1,060
    1,119
    Mar 2, 2015
    VCU. $88,000
     
  4. schrutefarm

    schrutefarm SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

    262
    144
    Jul 17, 2014
    UMN oos 120,000
     
    Legacy382 and redhotchiligochu like this.
  5. cacajuate

    cacajuate 2+ Year Member

    1,367
    1,386
    Aug 27, 2012
    $29.1k tuition. UT health SA
     
    allantois and Lalibila like this.
  6. BioTic

    BioTic

    1,073
    409
    Dec 31, 2015
    Damn Texans @Advance
     
    Noice, hannah_hoac and Advance like this.
  7. Advance

    Advance The Unholy 2+ Year Member

    1,665
    2,386
    May 9, 2014
    Texas
    :cool:
     
  8. Lalibila

    Lalibila

    86
    75
    Dec 28, 2016
    whats it looking like with cost of living and fees?
     
  9. O Gaúcho

    O Gaúcho 2+ Year Member

    419
    227
    Jul 14, 2014
    I think it comes out to be 42k a year not including interest and loan fees
     
  10. Lalibila

    Lalibila

    86
    75
    Dec 28, 2016
    Looks like they really overestimate on their projected costs.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  11. O Gaúcho

    O Gaúcho 2+ Year Member

    419
    227
    Jul 14, 2014
    Oh my bad I was just going off the cost of tuition and fees
     
  12. cacajuate

    cacajuate 2+ Year Member

    1,367
    1,386
    Aug 27, 2012

    Full COA is like ~$230k for this incoming classs, my class full coa is like ~$220k.

    I have a family and my total borrowed amount for the first year was ~$48k. My wife made about $10k that year, so take that into account. Single should be able to do it for much less.

    The interesting thing is there is a large % of the class that gets a $5k scholarship each year. I assume its first come first serve basis on who filed their FASFA first but I have received it both years.

    I'm not sure where you got that from but they estimated $64k, $56k, $54k, $48k. Thats full COA for each year respectively.
     
  13. ncide

    ncide 2+ Year Member

    1,060
    1,119
    Mar 2, 2015
    That's so crazy to see. I am an OOS student and am expected to take out 450k, but I'm living frugally and will hopefully hit 350k instead.

    It's insane to see such a low cost of attendance. Two students could attend your school for each student at mine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
    redhotchiligochu likes this.
  14. redhotchiligochu

    redhotchiligochu Dental Student

    782
    544
    Jul 11, 2016
    So VCU doesn't allow you to become an in-state resident after 1 year?
     
  15. ncide

    ncide 2+ Year Member

    1,060
    1,119
    Mar 2, 2015
    They let one of my classmates but it's hard to do. At 350k I'm basically an average in-state student though. Even if I was a student at my home state in Washington, I'd be paying the same.

    Washington is a pretty rad so I might move back. It'd be interesting to see how it is like being a dentist in other states. We don't have income tax and hygienists can place fillings after a doctor prepares a tooth, even assistants can if they become EFDAs, so dental offices can streamline procedures to see more patients. The environment is pretty doctor-friendly in WA state.
     
  16. arlmay

    arlmay 2+ Year Member

    241
    104
    Oct 29, 2013
    SIU student, tuition and fees 36k for the year
     
    I-hate-alginate likes this.
  17. ncide

    ncide 2+ Year Member

    1,060
    1,119
    Mar 2, 2015
    Did one of your classmates place that post?
     
    THS likes this.
  18. Sean08

    Sean08

    114
    176
    May 13, 2016
    In a zoo
    About 50k including living
     
  19. Daneosaurus

    Daneosaurus D2 5+ Year Member

    1,924
    1,426
    Mar 13, 2012
    Pitt ~82k


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  20. VolDental

    VolDental 2+ Year Member

    107
    122
    Jun 25, 2015
    US Army ~$0.00 give or take


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
    Noice, 2TH MVR, O Gaúcho and 5 others like this.
  21. Incis0r

    Incis0r Dental School baby! 2+ Year Member

    4,391
    5,541
    Aug 9, 2014
    Alterac Valley
    Is this per semester or per year?
     
  22. Sean08

    Sean08

    114
    176
    May 13, 2016
    In a zoo
    That's for the full year (3 quarters)
     
    Incis0r likes this.
  23. TrevorwestDDS

    TrevorwestDDS

    48
    35
    Apr 29, 2017
    98K for me this year at OSU. OOS is rough. Real glad I can get in-state status for years 2-4
     
  24. arlmay

    arlmay 2+ Year Member

    241
    104
    Oct 29, 2013
    No but I've seen some good ones during my time in DS. A couple through the furcation. Just thought it was a funny picture.
     
  25. NYDent22

    NYDent22 2+ Year Member

    48
    17
    Dec 29, 2014
    TCDM $63,000


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  26. sanfransunshine91

    sanfransunshine91

    29
    13
    Mar 26, 2017
    Nice to see! Back in my D1 year I was taking out the same amount. Is it based of grants/scholarships or are you just taking out a lot less loans? My younger brother will be applying in a couple years but the COA frightens me. I didn't realize they were still so generous even with all the UC system issues.
     
  27. Gilakend

    Gilakend 2+ Year Member

    469
    492
    Aug 24, 2012
    Michigan
    hSDN Alumni
    Oh my Lord I didn't realize how expensive dental school is. This is insane. 120k for a single year? As in almost half a million dollars over 4 years? What costs so much, is tuition like 100k? I feel like for most med schools COL is usually around 16k (not COA, just living expenses).
     
  28. Sean08

    Sean08

    114
    176
    May 13, 2016
    In a zoo
    A combination of scholarships and grants. I also received a small cost of living supplement due to the crazy high rent in SF so I'm able to save a bit that way too. I'm just trying to avoid grad plus like the plague
     
  29. iono101

    iono101 2+ Year Member

    418
    444
    Oct 28, 2013
    62k total for the year. I'm going to try and reduce for future semesters. I needed a little bit more money at the start to move in. Goal is to graduate in 4 years under 250k.
     
  30. Lalibila

    Lalibila

    86
    75
    Dec 28, 2016
    Which school?


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  31. iono101

    iono101 2+ Year Member

    418
    444
    Oct 28, 2013
    Michigan
     
    Lalibila likes this.
  32. THS

    THS Articulating Disc Jockey 5+ Year Member

    506
    503
    Jun 20, 2012
    Louisiana
    LSU in-state. Tuition: $28k, with fees and everything ~$35k.
     
  33. Edward Norton

    Edward Norton 7+ Year Member

    23
    18
    Sep 17, 2009
    Hi guys, thanks for replying. It's great to see that so many of you will owe less than 200k upon graduation. Traditionally, that was the norm. But for many dentists who graduated in the last ~5-8 years, and those who will graduate in the years to come, the new norm is roughly 400k (in principal only, realistically close to 430k upon graduation when accumulated interest is added). It is a financial predicament that will affect your ability to get started with adult life (e.g. purchase a home, take out a loan, etc.).

    For those of you who are not aware how student loans are calculated (I know that I certainly wasn't aware), I'd like to give you guys an idea of how your loans increase per day. Let's consider only 1 loan. Imagine that you borrowed 100k from Grad PLUS, which has an interest rate of 8.5%. Please follow the calculation:

    principal: 100,000
    interest rate: 0.085

    annual accumulation of loan interest: 100,000 * 0.085 = $8,500
    daily accumulation of loan interest: 8500/365 days = $23.29 per day
    monthly loan interest: 23.29 * 30 days = ~$700

    Do this for all of your loans to calculate how much you are paying (or not paying) per month in accumulated interest. The number is quite frightening. The difficult part is that payments are applied to accumulated interest first before any of it is applied to the principal, making it difficult to pay down the amount because you keep paying and paying, but it goes towards the interest only until years later when you are finally putting payments towards the principal. It is not unrealistic to have an accumulated interest balance of 10-15k for just one loan, especially if you took out a Grad PLUS loan in D1.

    Dental salaries have not increased in accordance with the rise in dental school costs. I thought I'd share these calculations with you to give you an idea of what you are facing in the years to come. Good luck to you all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017 at 9:51 AM
  34. allantois

    allantois 2+ Year Member

    3,038
    3,016
    Jan 27, 2013
    ^^^Dont forget 4% origination fees

    It's always more expensive than sticker price
     
    Namelessking likes this.
  35. blablabla1

    blablabla1

    773
    864
    Oct 4, 2015
    44.5k a year. Basically full unsubsidized loans. I have external help that's letting me stay under the 200k of debt range
     
  36. Namelessking

    Namelessking

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    48
    Mar 5, 2017
    I'll always say it. I (and I think many other people) wouldn't bat an eye at the cost of some of these schools if it weren't for these murderous 7-8% interest rates. Really? Apparently this country takes the **** on people trying to make something of themselves. And yes, sickening as it was, faculty at the schools I interviewed at pathetically quipped that all of us would be easily paying back our loans a few years after we graduate.
     
  37. schmoob

    schmoob SDN Moderator 2+ Year Member

    1,833
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    Mar 26, 2015
    That is not how it works at all.
    PLUS loans are not 8.5%. And why would you take out $100K in PLUS loans?
     
  38. Edward Norton

    Edward Norton 7+ Year Member

    23
    18
    Sep 17, 2009
    Hi. Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, since 2006 Grad PLUS loans have had an 8.5% interest rate. And why would anyone take them? It's because they have no other choice, since it's simply part of the financial aid package that's offered to the student.

    FACT CHECK: FinAid | Loans | PLUS Loan Rate Loophole

    To make matters worse, the rates will increase across the board on federal student loans.

    FACT CHECK: Say goodbye to low interest rates on federal student loans, at least for now

    According to the article, "Graduate loans are capped at 9.5 percent, while the limit on PLUS loans is 10.5 percent."
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017 at 9:49 AM
  39. schmoob

    schmoob SDN Moderator 2+ Year Member

    1,833
    2,466
    Mar 26, 2015
    This is incorrect. The fixed 8.5% Federal PLUS loans have been phased out for the last seven years. The interest rate for Direct PLUS loans for the current academic year is 7%.

    FACT CHECK: Interest Rates and Fees

    PLUS loans are meant as a supplement. Students max out their Unsubsidized maximums first, before going to PLUS. The current interest rate for Unsubsidized is 6% (see above reference). The maximum in Unsubidized loans for Pre-doctoral health professions students is $47,167.00

    FACT CHECK: https://ifap.ed.gov/fsahandbook/attachments/0910FSAHbkVol3Ch6Sept30.pdf (See page 10)

    You pay interest based on disbursement dates, typically by semester. That does not mean you take out $100K in PLUS loans and pay immediately for the entire year. You do not pay interest on funds you have not received. Under your scenario, if it costs $100K to go to school, you pay for the first half of the year with your unsubsidized $47,167 (lets round up to $50K for the sake of simplicity). That means for 12 months, you are paying 6% on that. The second half of the year, you use your PLUS loans at 7%. During that academic year, your interest rates are a blended 6.33%. After the year is over, you will be paying a 6.5% blended interest rate for attending that academic year. When talking big big numbers like we are doing here, a 2% difference from 6.5% and 8.5% is astronomical.

    You have the option of paying interest only during your 6 month grace period. After that, the interest capitalizes and all subsequent payments will be made towards an amortized principle and interest scale under the standard repayment plan.

    I know that you have the best intentions in your post, and I thank you. Keeping the public informed on the true costs to attend such expensive schools can potentially open many eyes to the realities they face. But the information that is put out should be accurate.
    Thank you.
     
  40. Edward Norton

    Edward Norton 7+ Year Member

    23
    18
    Sep 17, 2009
    Hi Schmoob. Thank you for the reply and your contribution to the post. Please PM me for all other thoughts on this subject, as I would prefer to have a discussion about this one-on-one.

    I would like to be clear that my calculation serves as an example of how a loan accumulates interest. As I have graduated from dental school ~10 years ago, the 8.5% interest rate on PLUS loans was in existence as you undoubtedly saw in the link that I provided. Also, the interest on student loans do accumulate during D-school, which is why lenders periodically write to students to inform them of the option to pay the interest to avoid capitalization.

    I appreciate your comments and thoughtful insights. It is without a doubt that your knowledge of financial matters will serve you well in your career.
     
    schmoob likes this.

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