Other Position wanted or swap (cat IM for any cat surg (thoracic, CT, gen, etc)

[Bassurgery]

I know that I'm asking a lot. I unfortunately matched into a great categorical IM program. I wanted a categorical surgery spot in gen surgery. I applied and had a really rough interview season with getting COVID-19, technical issues, just overall I felt awful. I had plenty of interviews, just didn't match. I wanted to apply to thoracic or CT surgery, but I did not do to competitiveness of integrated programs. My stats are ok for any of the above specialties.

IF there is ANY chance anyone with a categorical PGY1 spot in any of those specialties finds out it's not for them or just wants to swap, please reach out. The categorical IM program I just matched is in a WONDERFUL location and residents matched into extremely competitive fellowships.

I know there are procedural options in IM, but I have personal reasons for choosing surgery.

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[The wise one]

@ThoracicGuy is it look down upon to apply for other specialty beside Surgery?

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[ThoracicGuy]

@ThoracicGuy is it look down upon to apply for other specialty beside Surgery?

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Looking back at the OP's posts, I get a more complete picture. The OP had 4 attempts at the MCAT and likely ended up at SGU. There were significant concerns of making it through, but she did and she matched. That's a fantastic win right there. Now she wanted to do surgery, but her advisor suggested that she put IM in with the surgery apps. She didn't match surgery, but did get IM at a good place, per the report.

She gave it a good shot at surgery, but wasn't selected. Her best bet at having a medical career is finishing IM. Certainly doing well can open up chances for procedural fellowships. While it's not the same as surgery, it can still be satisfying.

My suggestion is to stay with the IM spot. As the saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...

 

[Redpancreas]

Thanks for the summary, TG. @Soon To Be Surgeon you're going to get a lot of grief on SDN for suggesting you're "more than qualified" for something etc. being a Carribean graduate when US MDs qualified for Orthopedic Surgery end up SOAPing for prelim surgery and do Ortho.

My advice to you differs. You have a strong desire to pursue one path and no one here will be able to persuade you from it. If you really have this strong belief, I suggest you spend some time recovering with family (nothing is time sensitive now), your significant other, +/- therapist or whomever and get to the bottom of this strongly held belief. Come up with a consensus. Once you've done that, if you still want surgery you're going to either find a way to switch into a surgical prelim after 45 days (my mistake earlier) of IM or just do the IM year purely for salary/staying medically relevant ...and then start over with a prelim (you will struggle to match Gen Surg in 2022 even with Caribbean level 300 applications shotgun approach) in July 2022. In regards to the CT surgery thing, I have heard of situations where that happens. There is a YouTube channel of a neurosurgeon driving expensive cars from the Carribean who keeps telling people everyone told him he would fail btu look at him now. You don't get those situations without a great deal of luck. If it was that easy everyone would do it. Never compare yourself for practical purpose,s but I am not saying finding a integrated CT gig out of prelim is impossible. Sometimes one will pop up and you can take it. Just know it's unlikely but if you want to take that risk, go ahead and shoot for what you want and be prepared to eat the consequences of many lost years if it doesn't work out.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thanks for the summary, TG. @Soon To Be Surgeon you're going to get a lot of grief on SDN for suggesting you're "more than qualified" for something etc. being a Carribean graduate when US MDs qualified for Orthopedic Surgery end up SOAPing for prelim surgery and do Ortho.

My advice to you differs. You have a strong desire to pursue one path and no one here will be able to persuade you from it. If you really have this strong belief, I suggest you spend some time recovering with family (nothing is time sensitive now), your significant other, +/- therapist or whomever and get to the bottom of this strongly held belief. Come up with a consensus. Once you've done that, if you still want surgery you're going to either find a way to switch into a surgical prelim after 45 days (my mistake earlier) of IM or just do the IM year purely for salary/staying medically relevant ...and then start over with a prelim (you will struggle to match Gen Surg in 2022 even with Caribbean level 300 applications shotgun approach) in July 2022. In regards to the CT surgery thing, I have heard of situations where that happens. There is a YouTube channel of a neurosurgeon driving expensive cars from the Carribean who keeps telling people everyone told him he would fail btu look at him now. You don't get those situations without a great deal of luck. If it was that easy everyone would do it. Never compare yourself for practical purpose,s but I am not saying finding a integrated CT gig out of prelim is impossible. Sometimes one will pop up and you can take it. Just know it's unlikely but if you want to take that risk, go ahead and shoot for what you want and be prepared to eat the consequences of many lost years if it doesn't work out.

I'll go ahead and say it, but an integrated CT spot is not happening.

 

[Redpancreas]

I'll go ahead and say it, but an integrated CT spot is not happening.

1.





2. N=1 anecdote of a resident at a program matching cat IM, changing her mind but then staying and shadowing top CT surgeons at supposedly the nation's best cardiac/cardiothoracic hospital and then finding an integrated CT surgery in Kentucky somewhere. I think she was a Carribean graduate but could have been a foreign raised, foreign medical graduate. You may or not find her on here, as he/she might have graduated CT Surgery I-6 Residents | Surgery

I think it's very unlikely and wouldn't recommend OP do it but OP seems to be set on shooting for the stars. My advice is that it's possible to do that, but not to come back complaining for chasing "two birds in the bush" if it all ends up being for naught. The guy in the YouTube video's a bit unbearable but he brings up a few good points about the reality of the situation. Sometimes spots open up and if you are willing to gamble and spend a couple years waiting, you may score.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

1.





2. N=1 anecdote of a resident at a program matching cat IM, changing her mind but then staying and shadowing top CT surgeons at supposedly the nation's best cardiac/cardiothoracic hospital and then finding an integrated CT surgery in Kentucky somewhere. I think she was a Carribean graduate but could have been a foreign raised, foreign medical graduate. You may or not find her on here, as he/she might have graduated CT Surgery I-6 Residents | Surgery

I think it's very unlikely and wouldn't recommend OP do it but OP seems to be set on shooting for the stars. My advice is that it's possible to do that, but not to come back complaining for chasing "two birds in the bush" if it all ends up being for naught. The guy in the YouTube video's a bit unbearable but he brings up a few good points about the reality of the situation. Sometimes spots open up and if you are willing to gamble and spend a couple years waiting, you may score.

Not meaning to pile on the OP, but the 4 MCATs were 23, 17, 492, and 496. They made comments about concerns of MCAT scores of 230 minimum. The chances they are competitive for Integrated CT is low. I suspect that one person who managed to get a spot likely has sky high USMLE scores.

Sure, the OP is welcome to try for an I-6 spot. They just aren't going to get it. This is like buying a single lottery ticket and thinking you have a chance to win the jackpot.

 

[Redpancreas]

Not meaning to pile on the OP, but the 4 MCATs were 23, 17, 492, and 496. They made comments about concerns of MCAT scores of 230 minimum. The chances they are competitive for Integrated CT is low. I suspect that one person who managed to get a spot likely has sky high USMLE scores.

Sure, the OP is welcome to try for an I-6 spot. They just aren't going to get it. This is like buying a single lottery ticket and thinking you have a chance to win the jackpot.

If OP has average Step scores to boot, I imagine it's pretty much a fruitless situation. I assumed OP has 250s if he's a Carribbean matching a solid IM program. OP can still try but should be satisfied with whatever the results end up being.

 

[candbgirl]

I know that I'm asking a lot. I unfortunately matched into a great categorical IM program. I wanted a categorical surgery spot in gen surgery. I applied and had a really rough interview season with getting COVID-19, technical issues, just overall I felt awful. I had plenty of interviews, just didn't match. I wanted to apply to thoracic or CT surgery, but I did not do to competitiveness of integrated programs. My stats are ok for any of the above specialties.

IF there is ANY chance anyone with a categorical PGY1 spot in any of those specialties finds out it's not for them or just wants to swap, please reach out. The categorical IM program I just matched is in a WONDERFUL location and residents matched into extremely competitive fellowships.

I know there are procedural options in IM, but I have personal reasons for choosing surgery.

Just because you find someone who wants to swap with you doesn’t mean it will happen. It really isn’t up to you at all.
Good luck. You have a job and lots of grads don’t.

 

[Hopeful20171234]

I know that I'm asking a lot. I unfortunately matched into a great categorical IM program. I wanted a categorical surgery spot in gen surgery. I applied and had a really rough interview season with getting COVID-19, technical issues, just overall I felt awful. I had plenty of interviews, just didn't match. I wanted to apply to thoracic or CT surgery, but I did not do to competitiveness of integrated programs. My stats are ok for any of the above specialties.

IF there is ANY chance anyone with a categorical PGY1 spot in any of those specialties finds out it's not for them or just wants to swap, please reach out. The categorical IM program I just matched is in a WONDERFUL location and residents matched into extremely competitive fellowships.

I know there are procedural options in IM, but I have personal reasons for choosing surgery.

what program are you at? I am looking to change IM programs so if your spot opens up, I'd like to know.

 

[Redpancreas]

@Soon To Be Surgeon @ThoracicGuy
3rd spot down. I doubt you'll get it as they're likely trying to cast a wide net and to get tons of applicants and will have their choice of who to pick in the end but it's worth a shot in your position OP.

https://apds.org/education-careers/open-positions/?fbclid=IwAR24dYCoHAGNGDAzKNzJzYhT6B1ag3pWT4Ztgniw0dh7VFA_rG7L9AdV6Co

 

[ThoracicGuy]

@Soon To Be Surgeon @ThoracicGuy
3rd spot down. I doubt you'll get it as they're likely trying to cast a wide net and to get tons of applicants and will have their choice of who to pick in the end but it's worth a shot in your position OP.

https://apds.org/education-careers/open-positions/?fbclid=IwAR24dYCoHAGNGDAzKNzJzYhT6B1ag3pWT4Ztgniw0dh7VFA_rG7L9AdV6Co

The OP can't apply for that. The OP is bound by a 45 day minimum contract per NRMP.

Also, if the OP quits their program after 45 days, it will make other programs very wary of taking them. At a minimum, the OP needs to finish out the first year.

 

[Redpancreas]

The OP can't apply for that. The OP is bound by a 45 day minimum contract per NRMP.

Also, if the OP quits their program after 45 days, it will make other programs very wary of taking them. At a minimum, the OP needs to finish out the first year.

Ahhh..yeah forgot about that hehe, thanks TG!

 

[Bassurgery]

If I reapply for the match this year, can I also apply to pgy2 IM spots just in the event that I don't match gen surg or something else?

 

[Redpancreas]

If I reapply for the match this year, can I also apply to pgy2 IM spots just in the event that I don't match gen surg or something else?

You will not be nearly as competitive applying a second time especially as a Caribbean grad. Even if you have good standing at your PGY-1 IM and get credit, there's going to be questions regarding why you switched from a "great" categorical IM program to another one after a year. This will be the NUMBER 1 Question the new PD will want to know. Your old PD will anticipate the new PDs curiosity and won't fail to mention (in the letter of recommendation you leave with) the fact that you were interviewing throughout the year. The new program will then easily connect the dots that you were not applying for IM.

Honestly you seem like that kind of opportunistic person jumping around without any certainty of what they want and the exact type of candidate no program director wants in their program despite how qualified you think you may be for general surgery (which even as an AMG, you wouldn't be with your profile, scores, etc.). Everyone's told you to do IM, but you're saying you'll accept nothing but surgery. I already told you the path for surgery that includes risks because it's supposedly the only thing you want and now you're thinking you're too good for those risks and are trying to hedge those bets by asking if you can do PGY-2! IM as a back up? This thread is basically a joke now.

As so many have said if you can tolerate IM do IM. If you can not, your only choice is to enter the prelim cycle (after your PGY-1 IM year) and hope you hit the jack pot and scoop up a general surg spot after that prelim year after IM PGY-1. People are in much tougher situations with much better qualifications than you.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

If I reapply for the match this year, can I also apply to pgy2 IM spots just in the event that I don't match gen surg or something else?

Your best bet at being a board eligible physician at this time is to finish IM. If you want to pursue surgery after you finish, you're welcome to try. If you can make connections with the local General Surgery program where you are doing IM, then you might have a leg up in getting a spot. Your chances of leaving your guaranteed program for a surgery prelim spot and then finding a categorical spot is extremely low. You will be hurting yourself in the long run.

I know you are disappointed with the match. I know it's not what you wanted, but it's what you got. Find a way to make peace with it.

 

[Lem0nz]

OP your ONLY bet is to be an IM doctor at this point. You came here seeking advice across like three thousand threads and have it in a variety of forms. People are being too nice and your entirely unrealistic viewpoint needs to be confronted. You failed. I am sorry. I am really, really sorry. But you did. It is not going to happen.

Asking the same questions a hundred different times isn't going to change any of our answers friend. The same people are answering your questions across multiple threads the same ways. Take a clue.

And I mean this in the nicest possible way but no personal reason is compelling enough to throw your entire career away, presumably hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt that you might not be able to pay back, and the chance of a life time to be a doctor. If there is and I'm wrong, please share because... well, I doubt I'm wrong.

 

[Redpancreas]

Your best bet at being a board eligible physician at this time is to finish IM. If you want to pursue surgery after you finish, you're welcome to try. If you can make connections with the local General Surgery program where you are doing IM, then you might have a leg up in getting a spot. Your chances of leaving your guaranteed program for a surgery prelim spot and then finding a categorical spot is extremely low. You will be hurting yourself in the long run.

I know you are disappointed with the match. I know it's not what you wanted, but it's what you got. Find a way to make peace with it.

Just for the record, I completely agree with the bolded. OP said that they want absolutely nothing but surgery so that's why I ventured into crazy land. I suppose TG's right though that it may just be a better idea to roll with IM categorical and apply surgery early in your PGY-3 year. From a surgery PDs perspective, it atleast shows you completed something and are reliable and if surgery doesn't work out and you at least would able to be a hospitalist. On the other hand if you leave IM, you're basically going to be stuck in a cycle of surgical prelims until you either realize doing those are no longer feasible or you ger a spot.