Post Interview Follow-up

[kmd2002]

I'm wondering what is considered to be the appropriate way to contact programs and let them know that you are very interested in their residency, once the interviews and thank you letters are done. If second looks are not feasible at all places, is a phone call in order? Letter to the program director? What kind of feedback have you been getting about the best way to do this?

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[dbiddy]

Good question. I was wondering the same thing. I'm not sure of phone call vs. letter.

 

[pags]

Letters are better than phone calls are better than emails.

 

[gasrx]

I found that e-mail worked great for me. I e-mailed all my thank you letters. This allowed the PD to get back to me and let me know what they thought of my interview and where I stood in their rank list. Who cares about what is appropriate? This whole match process is cruel and unusual punishment. Good luck to all.

 

[fourthyr]

what are you applying for gasrx?

 

[Freeeedom!]

I sent thank you card to every person that interviewed me...lots of stamps. But, I don't even know what that will do.

 

[denise]

for my #1 choice, I sent a thank you card, spoke with the PD on the phone, and sent email to the PGY4. I did not do a second look, because I was there for the month of Dec.
for my #2 choice I did the second look, of course spoke with the OB/GYN chair that day, and sent email to the PD (I did not get a chance to see her during my second look). I got an email back from the PD with in 10 hours. I am debating sending a thank you card.
for my #3 choice, I called the department office. The PD called me back in 4 hours, for which I was surpised. We spoke for about 30 minutes, another surprise. I am going to email them.

You know, I think this is all crazy! I do not know about you guys, but I feel as though they are probably telling everyone the same thing.

The kind of comments I got from the PDs
program #1 : "You will be ranked high, but I can not say if you will be #1, you fit in very well with the residents, and the staff really liked you"
program #2: "We are very happy to hear you are still interested, you are a strong applicant and a good fit"
program #3 : "During our first meeting, one of the Dr.s whom interviewed you told everyone he wanted you #1. We wanted to speek with you, before you decided to go to one of the community programs"

So, that is my experience. What ever, who knows where in the world I will be.
I would love to hear your statements

 

[gasrx]

what are you applying for gasrx?•• I will be at The Brigham for anesthesia 2003

 

[pags]

mmerzouk:
All those who had PD's tell you that you are a strong candidate and had been emailed consider yourself lucky, or good for that matter. I haven't received squat from 11/12 programs I've interviewed at and I thank you'd all of them. So maybe an email is better than snail mail.

 

[GASMAN]

If the program likes you, they WILL rank you even you don't do any follow up! On the other hand, I don't think any of those mention here will help you if they don't like you!

Just my 2 cents!

 

[bbbmd]

I also think that the programs tell everyone the same thing! It seems like a horrible game, but I hope that we are all playing it correctly.

Does everyone receive thank you letters from the program directors? Or should I feel special that I did? One letter that I received was hand-written. I can't imagine that a program director would hand-write a thank you to all of the interviewees, or am I just wishful thinking? I have also received a couple of emails from program directors saying that they would rank me highly and even asked for a confirmation of my correct NRMP match number. Should I celebrate??? What are your experiences???

I wrote letters to my top three programs recently. I basically told them that I would rank them highly and told my number 1 program that I would rank them number one! At least I am being honest, but are they being honest to us??? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

 

[dbiddy]

bbbmd, what are you applying to? Either you are a really awesome candidate or you are applying to a non-competetive field that makes you look awesome. I have had a couple of form letters, but nothing like you've had.

 

[Goofy]

Originally posted by bbbmd:
• I basically told them that I would rank them highly and told my number 1 program that I would rank them number one! At least I am being honest, but are they being honest to us??? •••

I don't mean to scare you, but informing a program that you are ranking them number 1 is indeed against your contract with the NMRP and incidentally, the law.

I say this because you may or may not be aware of this. Certainly publicizing that you have violated your legally binding contract with the NRMP is in poor taste. While highly unlikely, this can have detrimental affects on your career.

Having said that, members may convey their interest in a number of (legal) ways, some of which have already been elucidated. You can even say you are very very interested and plan to rank them very highly. You may not indicate the number however as it is a breach of contract and grounds for dismissal from the match.

 

[kmd2002]

Here's an excerpt from the NRMP page:
There is one cardinal rule for both programs and applicants: neither must ask the other prior to the Match to make a commitment as to how each will be ranked. It is okay for each party to express a high level of interest in the other. However, references to how each party will rank the other should be avoided and should definitely not be solicited. Neither programs nor applicants should consider these comments about interest as commitments. Candor and honesty are important for both programs and applicants.

From my understanding, programs and applicants are not allowed to ASK the other how they will be ranked. However, while discouraged, it is not a violation to freely share the information on how a program or applicant will be ranking the other. Is there another site that has the rules more clearly spelled out? The web site is a little vague.

 

[Voxel]

Kleb. You are off the mark a little. You can tell the PD that you are ranking them #1 and this is not against the NRMP rules. However, you cannot ask the PD where he will rank you nor can the PD ask where you will rank them. Nothing you or the PD say is binding anyway. You will not be kicked out of the match if you tell PD anything, just do not ask them where they will rank you.

 

[bbbmd]

Dbiddy, I am an average candidate and applying to a non-competitive field!!! I'm applying to PM&R. Although not as competitive as other specialties I still want to get into my top choice like everyone else!!! So thanks for the feedback.

Klebsiella, Thanks for your concern! You did freak me out a little by saying that I violated match rules and that I may be withdrawn from the match. So like what any "evidence-based" physician would do, I looked up the rules on the NRMP website. It's a little vague, but I don't think I violated any rules. I cut and pasted the following from the NRMP website for everyone's sake. I highlighted what I think is applicable to the issue. I hope this clears things up for everyone. It certainly made me feel a lot better!

What is a "Match Violation"?
The NRMP has established principles and policies to guide participants (programs and applicants) through the Match application and rank ordering process. These policies form the basic underpinnings of a fair, open, and orderly Match process. The failure of a participant in the Match to comply with one or more of these policies is called a Match violation. Match violations negatively impact all participants in the Match. For example, the consequences of Match violations can result in:
An applicant pressured by a program director to reveal the program's place on the applicant's rank order list.
A program director notified that a matched applicant will be a "no show" and finding that other applicants have all matched elsewhere.
An international medical graduate pressured by (or pressuring) a program director to sign a contract before Match Day.
A student affairs dean counseling an unmatched student who believed a program director's "promise" that he/she would be ranked first.
A matched applicant who could have matched to a more preferred program that now has an open position because of an applicant "no show".
While some match violations are committed with full awareness of the fact that the action is a violation, in many cases the violation occurs because the participants are unaware that their action is a violation.

Match Communications
Applicants and program directors may express a high degree of interest in each other and try to influence decisions in their favor, but must not make statements implying a commitment. Although NRMP policies do not prohibit either an applicant or program director from volunteering how he/she plans to rank the other, it is a violation of the NRMP policies to request such information.
Program directors and applicants frequently engage in the practice of sending letters following the applicant's interview with the program. These letters often contain statements that can be misinterpreted by either party. Match participants must understand that such letters are not binding and have no standing when final rank order lists are submitted.

dbiddyKlebsiellaAlthough NRMP policies do not prohibit either an applicant or program director from volunteering how he/she plans to rank the other, it is a violation on the NRMP policies to request such information.

 

[denise]

Yeah, there was no violation. You are allowed to tell the program where you are going to rank them; actually, they are allowed to tell you the same... the key is neither party is to ask for such information. On the other hand this means nothing, because the match has the final say.
So, don't worry at all. Actually, it sounds like what I did. Except I told the PD of my #1 choice in person. His response was, "you do not have to tell me that, but we are very happy". Then I did something kind of risky, I asked him what would be the reason I would not match" His response, "I do not know if such a canidate exist, but if one was 99% in her class, 99% on boards, AOA member, spent 2 days here and the residents loved her, she would be #1" I said OK. Thinking, I don't care if I am #1, I just want to be in the top three (this is for OB/GYN).
For the comment about if they like you, they will rank you regardless. I will say, it is strongly encouraged to let the programs know your interest. Every attending, resident, PD was told me that.

 

[Goofy]

Gang,

I stand corrected Please accept my humblest apologies for ringing the alarm bells without doing my research. I suspect that there are others out there who share my lack of knowledge about this policy. Actually, I would categorize it as misiniformation, as those that run this sort of thing at our university have repeatedly stressed to us via email and word of mouth the legal ramifications of revealing the specific number. Indeed the website clearly states you may volunteer this information and vice versa. I will be sending out a mass email to my school to clarify this point. Once again, thanks to all those that corrected this point for me.

 

[kmd2002]

bump

people seem to be having more questions about this topic...

 

[NuMD97]

When I was in the Match a while back, one particular program told us that within a week of our interviews we would be ranked according to percentages (ie: top 5%, top 10%, etc. or not at all) and that we were invited to call back at that time to get that feedback, but we were not allowed to learn anything more specific in terms of the rank number . Using that as a yardstick, what I did then was call the programs where I interviewed and simply stated that I wasn't certain if this particular program allowed for informational feedback to help me with my rank order list or not, and that I would not want any information that was contrary to their program's policy, but that I was getting information back from other programs. That being said, all programs, except one, were happy to give me the feedback. And this certainly helped me with the rank order list in the end.

About the question concerning the program director's query as to the candidate's NRMP number: That is a very good sign. I got that call as well and that was the place where I matched in the end.

Good luck to all.

 

[kamya]

Hi,

Recently joined this great site. Thanks to everybody for the messages. This really helps. Now I cleraly understood the NRMP policy.

I was just wondering What does this indicates. After I interviewed, I sent thank you letters and then 2 days after, I called the PD and left a message. He returned my call next day and told me

' I enjoyed meeting with you.I felt energised after talking to you at the end of the interview. We were impressed by your good ethics, good personality and good experience. We will be happy to have you in our program.

And then the next day the secretary called me and told me that PD asked her to follow up with me and again said 'we will be happy to have you in our program. ' and then 3 days after I got a letter from PD expressing his interest in me.

Should I start making arrrangements for a party?!!!

 

[denise]

Well, all I can say, if you do not match with that program, then we are all in trouble. They seem to have gone out of their way to contact you! So, I feel you will do fine! It is still a crazy, stressful process.

 

[NuMD97]

MMerzouk writes:

•••quote:••• It is still a crazy, stressful process. ••••No question. After tearing up many a Match Rank Order sheet, the ultimate thing I found was to go with the information the programs "suggested" to me, and then to follow my heart. Otherwise you'll make yourself totally crazy. I wish you all well as you finalize your lists and "check them twice". :wink: