Post your feelings about schools in Manhatten (Columbia, Sinai, NYU, Cornell)!

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Scooby Doo

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Ok, So I just got back from my long trip to New York City again. Almost got killed by a crazy shuttle driver.

Thoughts on each school AFTER a second visit to most of them.

Columbia: Unfortunately, I did not get a chance to get back to this school as it was too far away. Cornell students talk trash on them and say they are in class all day. I did talk to a friend of a friend who goes there now. They are SWITCHING their grading system from H/P/F to P/F!!! So that's pretty sweet! Location: SUCKS...far away but subway is super easy.

NYU: Interesting class I guess. The students seem semi-happy but fairly busy as well. ALL the students I talked to DID NOT do ANY research for their first 2 to 3 years there. This is the first school where they seem to not put any emphasis on that. My interviewer said most of the class was filled and then started asking me if I was related to anyone at NYU or had a parent who worked there...Guess that's not a great sign..but at the end he said he would recommend me for acceptance (so that was cool 🙂 ) The main claim to fame that they have is Bellevue. People seem to go through a harder first couple years just so they can have the "Bellevue Experience" On the other good side, you have a TON of connections to other NYU graduate programs, the undergrad campus, etc They continuously go out with people in the law program or other programs and have contests and all the fun stuff....they seem fairly traditional in a lot of ways too. Large class size though. Oh, these students are MAJOR $hit talkers on other schools. However, my tour guide was really cool and he was honest about the whole process and really did like the school. Oh, the dorms here absolutely are horrible! shared coed bathrooms with little dinky room and a messy kitchen. NYU library = HORRIBLE! SMALL and they have to share it with dental students...I don't know how they ever study there. NYU versus Sinai? Not sure...that'll be a tough decision!

Cornell: Overrated? Perhaps. The "PBL" system seems interesting. Unfortunately, the computers in the PBL rooms are ALL MACS! YUCK! 😛 The other thing, they have at least 1 lecture a day so it's not complete PBL. This makes it much more appealing. The dorms are ok...better than NYU but still one shared bathroom between two people (not bad at all). Rooms are a little larger than NYU. Location for both NYU and Cornell is great.

Mount Sinai: I saved this one for last 🙂 Sinai would be my top choice in NYC if it weren't for a few reasons. First off, important email was sent to students a couple days ago...tuition at Mount Sinai will be increasing over the course of the next four years!! So basically first year will be 23K, then 27K, then 30K!!! OUCH! They bit off more than they could chew with that NYU merger. ALSO, they are now accepting 120 students rather than the 100 they usually accepted. I am scared of going to this school and getting screwed later on b/c of some bad business deals. HOWEVER, after saying this, I still freaking LOVE THIS SCHOOL!!!!!!! BEAUTIFUL hospital!!! The students are SOOO HAPPY! I was stopping a bunch of them outside the residence hall to talk to them yesterday and they were all commenting how they loved the school and took time to talk to me EVEN THOUGH they had a test the next day. One took me up to her room and their housing is AWESOME! Four people to an apartment style housing. Large common room with kitchenette. BIG rooms (compared to other NYC schools). P/F system and all the students seem to be having a great time. Definitely a better vibe from here. ALSO, these students did NOT talk trash on ANY other schools. Most said, "if you get into Columbia or cornell, you should go there!" which is surprising but it doesn't make me consider those schools more. They were just expressing that those schools have the rep that makes them so great. Sinai is right on the fringe of central park too which makes it a nice place to "get away" from the city.

Oh, and as for gyms...I know Watcha wanted me to look for him and I was interested too.
The best is by far MOUNT SINAI. They have a super clean and nice gym PLUS they give you a free pass to "The Y" (???)...which is a gym nearby that has everything you want.
The next best was Cornell. By "next best", I really should say if Sinai was rated 100, Cornell is rated about a 50 or so. The only reason they got any points was b/c they had a basketball court 🙂 Then NYU and Columbia come in last...
 
Wow. I can't believe Sinai is raising tuition by that much. They actually made a point about the fact that they were "one of the cheapest private medical schools around" with the 23K tuition...not anymore eh? If that's the case, and I have no reason no to trust you Scooby, then I don't think I will be choosing Sinai (assuming I got in) over Arizona. The relatively low tuition was appealing to me. Otherwise, though, the schools is great...The NYC schools issue has been discussed over and over and I feel like my opinions are known, so I'll just contribute a rank-ordered list 😀 :

1. Columbia
2. Cornell
3. Sinai
4. NYU
5. Einstein
 
I'm not sure why the Y is in quotes with question marks following it...somehow I thought the Village People took care of that. It stands for YMCA-Young Men's Christian Association, but I think the one near Sinai droped the whole Christian thing and is now called the YMAA, for athletics.
 
I put the Y in quotes and ??? after b/c I did not know what it stood for. Someone told me that and I failed to ask up on what it meant b/c we moved on to a different topic.

Jargon, as for the tuition hike. This is going to be over the course of the next 4 years.
So basically,
First year: 23,000
Second year: 27,500
Third year: 27,500
Fourth year: 30,000

This is what all the students just told me.
 
it may interest you to know that the "Y" is in quotes because the 92nd street Y is actually Jewish. thus, the ymCa doesn't work so well...
 
Hi Scooby Doo, I interviewed at Sinai last week and fell in love with the school. Just like you I am a little concerned over the financial situation with Sinai. Do you have more info concerning the financial status of Sinai. Do you think the situation will affect the students???
 
Hey Scoob..I wasn't impressed with Cornell either. The students that I spoke to outside of their welcome squad didn't seem very happy...and I don't know about you ..but one of the girls and I had a hard time not laughing at one of our students welcomers. He seemed like a tool.
 
vblam: I am not sure how much that could affect the students..who knows 🙁
But it's one of the major hangups I have about Sinai right now...

UCLA: So who else did you get a chance to chat with at Cornell? What else did the people say? It's H/P/F right?
 
Scooby, I am also thinking alot about Sinai's financial situation but I personally think it won't affect the students that much. I've read that the school of medicine has around 60 mil for new equipment and renovations so it seems like the debt won't hinder the school in advancements.
 
Overall, the Sinai debt situation shouldn't affect the medical education at all. It's interesting that you like the apartments so much. They floated $320 million through the New York State Dormitory Authority bonds, which is coming due soon, if not already. Last year, the Mt.Sinai debt stood at $500 million; they ended 2000 with an operating loss of $26.4 million.

They just hired Kenneth Berns as the new president and COO to tackle these problems. Despite the financial problems, Mt. Sinai has been very aggressive about recruiting renowned faculty, like a new cardiology group from Harvard, and expanding infrastructure. I think thats where all the debt originated from.

By the way, before you bash the hell out of NYU, perhaps you should consider that NYU is shouldering Mt. Sinai's debt. The tuition hike at Mt. Sinai would be even higher if not for the NYU-Sinai merger. Part of the reason for the merger's failure was from NYU balking at assuming the full $700 million. Legally, they are bound to help Sinai out. All this info is from the NY Times Feb 2, 2002-by Barbara Stewart; Dec 2,2001-Katherine Finkelstein; Physician-Weekly-Sept 22, 1997.
<a href="http://www.physweekly.com/archive/97/09_22_97/twf.html" target="_blank">http://www.physweekly.com/archive/97/09_22_97/twf.html</a>

One more thing: the people who run the tours are a small self-selected segment of med students. Keep in mind that blind enthusiasm, or otherwise, is not representative of an entire school's character.
 
sigh- if that sinai-nyu merger had worked out those schools would have been SSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO amazing!

picture the beauty of the private hospitals and facilities of mount sinai, with the amazing clinical experiences of nyu and bellevue. goddammit. i hope i get into one of them...
 
Mr Sparkle,

I was not bashing NYU ever...I was merely stating some things that I observed. And as for students saying nice things about the schools, I KNOW THIS...which is why I sought out students in classes and before tests and ones that were NOT involved in the admissions process. The students I met at Sinai ALL LOVED it. Some at NYU had harsh words, most loved it. I didn't get a second chance to see Columbia..though I hear most love it. Cornell, it was split again!

The things I said about NYU...were true..simple.
NYU library = extremely small...am I not right? It's also shared with dental and other students.
NYU dorms = cramped comparitively to the other schools
NYU clinical = Best in NY city...with Bellevue.
The $hit talkers were pretty much all around the city. The only place I did not consider this was at Mount Sinai. I do not know why. Maybe just luck happened that I ran into nice people. Who knows? I wasn't trying to bash any one school.

I was really trying to put out my thoughts on the schools and hope to get some feedback. BUT, NO ONE is posting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
 
•••quote:•••Scooby Doo
By "next best", I really should say if Sinai was rated 100, Cornell is rated about a 50 or so. The only reason they got any points was b/c they had a basketball court •••• •••quote:••• UCLA2000
I wasn't impressed with Cornell either. The students that I spoke to outside of their welcome squad didn't seem very happy...and I don't know about you ..but one of the girls and I had a hard time not laughing at one of our students welcomers. He seemed like a tool.
••••Hmm there is a lot of hating towards Cornell?
Reason I really loved Cornell was the PBL Curriculum and location. I have always found that lectures carry only a small percentage in my learning process - (basically I missed over half of my organic lectures because every time I went to lecture - I didn't understand squat) and most of the time spent actually absorbing and understanding concepts and materials was studying and during study groups.
So I thought here is a school, which has a program that cuts useless and wasted time counting the ceiling tiles in the classroom from 9-5 when you can be actively participate in your learning and sharply cutting down lecture time.
I can't remember the exact numbers about a research study, which suggested that you remember about
20% of what you hear
30% of what you see
50% see and hear
80% of active participation
95% of what you teach others.
Later on during my application process I found a couple of schools that also apply PBL (such as Harvard, Pitts, Rochester)-visited all of them and they have slightly difference in their prog and I was simply sold great. Amongst the 4 (Cornell, Pitts, Harvard and Cornell) - Personally, I found Pitts and Rochester to be the best.
Second reason - Manhattan. I live in Long Island and everything I visit the city- I could just feel the energy in the air. The hustle and bustle. I love the city and plus at Cornell your given a great opportunity (as opposed to Columbia, mount Sinai, or NYU) to enjoy with the extra time you have to play around. The upper east part of the city where Cornell is location is pretty nice and quiet &#8211; which is great for those long hours of studying
Now I didn't mention a third reason but hey- deal.
Which are the International opportunities &#8211; Basically, you can go both developing vs developed countries to do research or clinical work&#8211; during your first summer off, or as an elective in your fourth year or if you are in no rush to graduate in 4 fours- you can take a year off.
I haven't been to Mount Sinai, Columbia or NYU and I am sure they have certain xteristics that I would personally love. For the schools I have visited during interviews, I have found some characteristic that was a little better than Cornell- At upstate NY they have a great clinical exposure, Rochester and Pitts &#8211;great programs and Pittsburgh-nice city and people, NYMC &#8211; awesome Anatomy lab.
But Cornell is number 1 on my list because it had the right blend of my wants and needs.

Oh by the way, as far as housing goes for Cornell- 1st year MS are placed at Olin but after you second year you can seek better housing. As for food-you basically going to rely on cooking yourself or takeout because (I not sure at the hospital) but there is no cafeteria at the school. But C'mon its NY- EVERTHING and ANYTHING can be Delivered.

😎
 
Sicvic:

I WAS NOT hating on Cornell. In fact, I liked the school a lot b/c of the curriculum and location.

If you reread my post; you will see.
I rated THE GYM AT CORNELL a 50/100. NOT THE SCHOOL!!!
The gym got less points b/c it was not that nice. I was using Sinai's gym as a benchmark of 100 points and then just using a comparison b/c hell, some of us like to stay in shape 🙂

But thank you very much for your contribution to this thread..hopefully some others will also contribute. Maybe current med students too 🙂
 
I wasn't hating on Cornell, I merely call em like I see them. If I don't like a school I'm going to say that I don't like it. Does that make me a hater? NO it merely means that I'm posting my opinion.

Scoob I stayed with a couple of Cornell students. They flat out told me that they were not happy at the school because most of the student body is middle class and caucasian. They said that there's no diversity and many of the people are closed minded. In addition they also stated that their hospital deals with upper class patients. I brought that point up to one of the welcoming students because he mentioned that there was a large diversity within the patient population. Apparently if you want diversity you gotta drive out to the bronx...
 
Hey all. I agree with the "general consensus" I guess. Right now my choices are between the MD/PhD programs at Sinai, NYU and Mayo. I liked things about all three programs but I think it has now come down to Sinai vs. Mayo. I like NYU's Bellevue thing but the atmosphere just didn't feel like it was all together. And also as an MD/PhD student the research at Sinai seemed at lot stronger than at NYU although Skirball at NYU had some good labs. But in terms of molecular neuroscience research Sinai clearly beats NYU. Sinai's new East Building for research is fantastic. Also their housing is right across the street from the hospital and is really nice. As for clinical training, Elmhurst Hospital to which Sinai students are required to rotate in addition to Mount Sinai Medical Center is a great place to train. While not as "wild" per se as bellevue it's still very much like bellevue in that 97% of all patients are medicaid and gun-shot/STD/indigent types. At the same time you have the benefit of seeing the referral patient class at the Mount Sinai Hospital which is clearly better than Tisch and perhaps even on the ranks with Presbyterian (to which by the way MSTPs may opt to do grand rounds at).

Okay so Sinai sounds great and their MSTP stipend is very good for NYC. So now to Mayo. Mayo is just one of the most phenomenal medical campuses in the US. Their small class size really encourages one-on-one training with some of the best diagnosticians in North America. Particularly if you are interested in subspecialty training (i.e. cardiovascular, neurosurgery, rheumatology, infectious disease, and cancer) you can basically rotate at some of the best subspecialty departments in the country and work with attendings one-on-one and learn and see complicated procedures first-hand. Also their clinical clerkships start SECOND year. While their research is not as "extensive" as Sinai's I think there a few labs there that suit my interests (in the end I'll only choose one thesis lab anyway). As for medicaid/diverse patients -- it's a fact that Mayo is sort of a breeding ground for the "salubrious/opulent" type of patient. However their patient volume is ENORMOUS. I don't think I'd want to do a residency there as for the diversity issue but I think medical students are trained extremely well. Attendings will take you to the clinic and go to a patient and show you in detail how to examine the patient and what to look for and all the medical theory behind the disease. Also Mayo keeps one of the most extensive medical history libraries on the planet -- which is excellent for epidemiological studies. Location wise --- Mayo is not that great. But Minneapolis is only 40 min away. I love NYC and it would be close to my family in Long Island. But at the same time I think the Mayo experience is truly unique. It's gonna be a tough choice. Sinai is great also. And I don't think Bellevue will give you THAT much more than Elmhurst might. But that's a matter or practical experience and I don't know what to say about that. I mean regardless of where you go you can always do an "away clerkship" at Bellevue if you really desired that experience. In any case that's what I have to say. If anyone has any thougths or experience they may want to share please post it -- particularly on the Mayo vs. Sinai issue. Thanks!
And if anyone wants to know about the research at Sinai I'll help you in any way I can.
 
Our tour guide at Sinai said that students don't really get to do hands-on techniques at Sinai hospital because of the patient population who tends to be well-off. She was a 4th year and could bascially count on both hands how many things she had done. She said if you want clinical experience then one should go to one of Sinai's affiliated hospitals within the city.
 
yeah but the point is that they DO have public hospitals where you CAN get hands-on experience.
 
Exactly -- that's what Elmhurst is for.
 
Elmhurst is far from sinai
 
True. I agree Bellevue is a great training ground. I just didn't feel too sound with the research at NYU as compared with Sinai being an MSTP student.
 
I really was impressed with Cornell when I interviewed there. It took alot of prodding for me to fly out for that last interview but it was worth it. I thought the school was very diverse. By far it has been one of the most diverse schools that I visited. I really liked the pbl curriculum also. Cornell is my first choice and Pitt is my second choice. i have already figured that sinai will probably not give me any love since I have not heard from them since November.
 
Pitts and Cornell were neck to neck in schools I'd really love to be in and there is diversity in cornell (maybe not 50%)
 
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